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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Thoughts on dealing with trespassers. (Page 2 of 3)

Posted: 6/1/2008 10:31:33 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Patrol rifle + castle doctrine = problem solved.

Do you seriously believe that the castle doctrine applies to land outside of the actual residence?

It applies to anywhere you are legally allowed to be in TX.

No, it doesn't. You don't have a duty to retreat if you reasonably believe that you are in danger of death or grievous bodily injury. That doesn't mean you may kill someone for trespassing.

Posted: 6/1/2008 10:31:55 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Patrol rifle + castle doctrine = problem solved.

Do you seriously believe that the castle doctrine applies to land outside of the actual residence?

It applies to anywhere you are legally allowed to be in TX.

I was informed by the DA that they didn't consider my front gate to be the "cordage of my home" and that the castle doctrine didn't apply.
Ain't VA grand?

Posted: 6/1/2008 10:33:29 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Patrol rifle + castle doctrine = problem solved.

Do you seriously believe that the castle doctrine applies to land outside of the actual residence?

It applies to anywhere you are legally allowed to be in TX.

I was informed by the DA that they didn't consider my front gate to be the "cordage of my home" and that the castle doctrine didn't apply.
Ain't VA grand?

Don't be fooled. The front gate to your property wouldn't be covered under the castle doctrine in Texas either.

Posted: 6/1/2008 10:33:36 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Patrol rifle + castle doctrine = problem solved.

Do you seriously believe that the castle doctrine applies to land outside of the actual residence?

It applies to anywhere you are legally allowed to be in TX.

No, it doesn't. You don't have a duty to retreat if you reasonably believe that you are in danger of death or grievous bodily injury. That doesn't mean you may kill someone for trespassing.

Just to clarify, he did put my life in danger with his recklessness and made a threat to my life right before he drove off.

Posted: 6/1/2008 10:39:25 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Patrol rifle + castle doctrine = problem solved.

Do you seriously believe that the castle doctrine applies to land outside of the actual residence?

It applies to anywhere you are legally allowed to be in TX.

No, it doesn't. You don't have a duty to retreat if you reasonably believe that you are in danger of death or grievous bodily injury. That doesn't mean you may kill someone for trespassing.

Just to clarify, he did put my life in danger with his recklessness and made a threat to my life right before he drove off.

Yeah, that would be a little more that just trespassing.

Posted: 6/1/2008 11:06:04 PM EDT

[#6]

Posted: 6/1/2008 11:10:16 PM EDT

[#7]

I had a problem out at my Grandmother's place where my cousin and I are setting up a new shooting range. There is a pond nearby and once caught neighbors out there on the property. Since then I bought a new gate and placed signs around the area. We do a lot of shooting out there and the last thing anyone needs is for some trespassing fool to get shot. A couple of my metal signs have been shot up recently as well.

Besides that, what irritates me is that this problem has still been ongoing, we try to make it out there whenever we can but every now and then we'll have to clean up the beer cans that are left around the pond. People just don't have any respect anymore and really there isn't much you can do about it because our legal system sucks.

Posted: 6/1/2008 11:22:57 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
I had a problem out at my Grandmother's place where my cousin and I are setting up a new shooting range. There is a pond nearby and once caught neighbors out there on the property. Since then I bought a new gate and placed signs around the area. We do a lot of shooting out there and the last thing anyone needs is for some trespassing fool to get shot. A couple of my metal signs have been shot up recently as well.

Besides that, what irritates me is that this problem has still been ongoing, we try to make it out there whenever we can but every now and then we'll have to clean up the beer cans that are left around the pond. People just don't have any respect anymore and really there isn't much you can do about it because our legal system sucks.

I know exactly what it's like. It's nothing less than harassment.

Even the concept of having to post your property pisses me off. Seriously, I know what property I own and what property I don't, as does everyone else. I don't need a sign to tell me that I shouldn't be somewhere, why do they need one?

Posted: 6/1/2008 11:31:43 PM EDT

[#9]

I agree with that.

Hell I even went through the trouble of building a camera post with a 12ft 4x4, some exterior electrical conduit and a fake outdoor camera enclosure. It was around $30 and looked really good at first. Later on someone went and threw mud at the front. They thought it was real at least and I've been too lazy to clean it off since.

Here is a pic. Was a fun project anyway...

Posted: 6/1/2008 11:45:19 PM EDT

[#10]

That looks very nice. My dad wanted to try something like that, but I figured that they'd just shoot it like everything else. Maybe you could set something like that up as bait and hide a game camera in the woods to catch them destroying it. In my area, they couldn't resist dumping their trash in front of a "No dumping" sign, so when I have a few extra bucks I may try it.

Two months back they rammed one of our gates with their truck, took bolt cutters to 3 padlocks on it, tried to cut through one of the hinge pins, and wrote "Fuck you asshole'' on the sign.

Posted: 6/2/2008 12:28:12 AM EDT

[#11]

Sierra, my memory may be failing me at this hour, but have you talked to teh local DA or your Sherriff personally to see what can be done? I realize that they are likely to take no action until they have something to press against you, but its worth a shot.

Its too bad that caltrops are considered to be a mantrap, what with the harm it could do to feet. If they have a normal night, you may still consider staking out their normal haunt, armed with a pistol as backup, but the paintball gun as your main deterrent. Make their car a target of those paintballs.

You may also check into a valve-stem remover, and then taping them to their windsheild. When they call teh cops out there, ask the trespassers what they are doing out there. Act innocent, and declare you cannot be held responsible for damage to vehicles that are not on your property with permission. I have done this once before (well, I was a party to it, as the fraternity house manager), after a few warnings under the wiper, with a guy that was parking his truck in our drive way for a week. One day, his valve-stems mysteriously adhered themselves to his driver-side window. He called the cops, we acted innocent, asked him what he was doing on our private property in the first place, and then gave him a list of tow-truck companies out of the phone book.

Posted: 6/2/2008 12:54:52 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Patrol rifle + castle doctrine = problem solved.

Do you seriously believe that the castle doctrine applies to land outside of the actual residence?

Yes, it does.

It applies (here in Texas) to any place that you happen to legally be.

Posted: 6/2/2008 12:59:46 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Patrol rifle + castle doctrine = problem solved.

Do you seriously believe that the castle doctrine applies to land outside of the actual residence?

It applies to anywhere you are legally allowed to be in TX.

I was informed by the DA that they didn't consider my front gate to be the "cordage of my home" and that the castle doctrine didn't apply.
Ain't VA grand?

Don't be fooled. The front gate to your property wouldn't be covered under the castle doctrine in Texas either.

From the Texas Penal Code...

§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.

Posted: 6/2/2008 1:09:51 AM EDT

[#14]

§ 28.03. CRIMINAL MISCHIEF. (a) A person commits an
offense if, without the effective consent of the owner:
(1) he intentionally or knowingly damages or destroys
the tangible property of the owner;
(2) he intentionally or knowingly tampers with the
tangible property of the owner and causes pecuniary loss or
substantial inconvenience to the owner or a third person; or
(3) he intentionally or knowingly makes markings,
including inscriptions, slogans, drawings, or paintings, on the
tangible property of the owner.

<snipped quite a bit off so I could post it, mostly penalties and such, complete text here )

Posted: 6/2/2008 1:49:22 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Patrol rifle + castle doctrine = problem solved.

Do you seriously believe that the castle doctrine applies to land outside of the actual residence?

Yes, it does.

It applies (here in Texas) to any place that you happen to legally be.

they are talking about Virginia though.

Posted: 6/2/2008 1:55:15 AM EDT

[#16]

Allow some old retired fart to put a house trailer on the property and have him watch the place. Everybody wins.

Posted: 6/2/2008 1:59:01 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Patrol rifle + castle doctrine = problem solved.

Done it. I greeted someone who was shooting our gate while carrying my Bushmaster and was nearly shot by the ignorant fuck who claimed to be a "NRA safety instructor"
I finally convinced him to leave and my dad drove me to town to file charges against him. The cop that served him was apparently a buddy of his and told him to files charges against me for brandishing a firearm and curse and abuse. The same cop showed up at the gate and while questioning me, admitted to trespassing on the property not two months before. The next two months made me lose what little faith I had in our judicial system and ended with all charges being dropped on both sides.
It's a small town where all the hicks in high places look out for their childhood friends and not outsiders like myself.

Next time let the charges stand longer until you get in front of a DA or Magistrate because I bet there is currently no record of the incident.

When I was back in SC a few months ago I saw a couple of tire poppers placed behind cables across roads. They were locked in place but it appeared that they could have easily been moved by the people with the keys for the locks. Something to the effect of railroad spikes welded to box stock which could be pivoted out of the way.

Posted: 6/2/2008 2:10:02 AM EDT

[#18]

How about inviting some Marines or Soldiers to your land field exercises or to practice their sneaking skills at night? Every trespasser they catch earns them a free beer.

Posted: 6/2/2008 2:50:22 AM EDT

[#19]

160 acres is a nice big area to hide "things" in.

Even the folks on Scooby Doo knew to stay away from the old haunted farmhouse when the townsfolk that went there kept disappearing.

I'm just sayin'.

Posted: 6/2/2008 3:21:21 AM EDT

[#20]

Ya know, with all those trespassers and all the junk they leave behind, there's no telling who's leaving what on the ground.

Posted: 6/2/2008 5:45:48 AM EDT

[#21]

www.roadblade.com/

Posted: 6/2/2008 5:51:27 AM EDT

[#22]

Where in VA are you?

Posted: 6/2/2008 6:02:20 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
I'm thinking about getting a couple of these and placing them on the berm right beside the gate directed into their open windows.
Any liquid can be placed inside them, so use that twisted mind of yours and give me some ideas.

Brake fluid does really nasty things to a vehicle's paint and finish. Just aim lower.

Seriously, I feel for you. We only have eight acres and still have poacher problems since we're not living on it. I really want a 10' chainlink razor-wire topped perimeter fence with automatic gates, but the cost...

.

Posted: 6/2/2008 6:07:59 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I assume you have all common access points posted with fresh "No Trespassing" signs? Not something painted on a log and not some 10 year old sign that is too faded to read.

Absolutely. We have about a mile of road frontage which is posted about every 20 feet and maintained regularly. I also use white paint on trees to post the property since it's harder to tear down.
The signs seem to just be a message board for them to voice their opinions of us. They shoot the signs when we aren't around and write inflammatory statements with sharpies on them.

Sounds to me like you *really* need to setup something with either the local Sheriffs Deputies or DNR LE so you can get some of their time. If you can't get any help from LE you need to go up the food chain until someone listens. Hell find an officer that lives close by and get his number.

Trespassing leads to other crime and it's seriously frowned on in GA.

You need some of these guys caught and charged, if you make a few cases on them the word will get out.

Sounds like you've got a problem with the local white trash.

Posted: 6/2/2008 6:14:07 AM EDT

[#25]

With the blatant escalation and in-your-face defiance of these people, I would definitely up the ante. Any wakeup call will need to be swift and harsh.

Something would happen to any vehicle left unattended. Something majorly catastrophic... not paintballs. Maybe a tree would fall on it. Maybe broken windows. Maybe burn trash near the vehicle and let the fire get out of control. I don't know. But whatever it would be, it would make your place too expensive to trespass on.

The way these people are acting is well beyond the "fun and games" approach. Ramming fences, cutting locks and writing defiant messages on your signs? They know the game they're playing and winning and won't stop until you play your trump cards.

Posted: 6/2/2008 6:16:54 AM EDT

[#26]

Tire spikes, which you can place on whatever access road they're using.

Tripwire-activated OC bomb, just place the tripwire on whatever trail, riverbank, etc... they're using.

Edit: And I very strongly agree with the other suggestions. If the local LEO's are part of the good ol' boys network, then quit wasting your time with them and start talking to county and state agencies... especially DNR if there's even the faintest possibility of poaching.

Posted: 6/2/2008 6:26:59 AM EDT

[#27]

can you post pics of the damage?

Posted: 6/2/2008 6:32:06 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Sierra, my memory may be failing me at this hour, but have you talked to teh local DA or your Sherriff personally to see what can be done? I realize that they are likely to take no action until they have something to press against you, but its worth a shot.

Its too bad that caltrops are considered to be a mantrap, what with the harm it could do to feet. If they have a normal night, you may still consider staking out their normal haunt, armed with a pistol as backup, but the paintball gun as your main deterrent. Make their car a target of those paintballs.

You may also check into a valve-stem remover, and then taping them to their windsheild. When they call teh cops out there, ask the trespassers what they are doing out there. Act innocent, and declare you cannot be held responsible for damage to vehicles that are not on your property with permission. I have done this once before (well, I was a party to it, as the fraternity house manager), after a few warnings under the wiper, with a guy that was parking his truck in our drive way for a week. One day, his valve-stems mysteriously adhered themselves to his driver-side window. He called the cops, we acted innocent, asked him what he was doing on our private property in the first place, and then gave him a list of tow-truck companies out of the phone book.

We've found 2 LEOs on our side with similar issues of their own, but the trespassers don't have a given schedule and are hard to catch when you're not at the property 24/7.
The reason we're looking into a land patent is to bypass the GOBN and have the Feds involved when someone screws with us.

And I wouldn't even consider doing something like what you suggested!

Posted: 6/2/2008 6:32:41 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
160 acres is a nice big area to hide "things" in.

Even the folks on Scooby Doo knew to stay away from the old haunted farmhouse when the townsfolk that went there kept disappearing.

I'm just sayin'.

Vehicles are too hard to dispose of.

Posted: 6/2/2008 6:39:40 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Ya know, with all those trespassers and all the junk they leave behind, there's no telling who's leaving what on the ground.

No kidding, they should be careful about where they place those signs that they tear down.

Quoted:
www.roadblade.com/

www.roadblade.com/assets/images/RB-with-car.jpg

I considered getting a pipe, running a cable through it, zipping wood screws in a triangular pattern, and locking it across the driveway, but I think it would be seen as a caltrop of sorts.

Posted: 6/2/2008 6:39:44 AM EDT

[#31]

If they leave the keys in the vehicle, have some fun with it, then, deflate their tires, and remove their driveshaft. THEN sugar in the gas tank.

Posted: 6/2/2008 6:39:46 AM EDT

[#32]

FROM HERE Almost to the bottom of the page.

Posted: 6/2/2008 6:42:38 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I assume you have all common access points posted with fresh "No Trespassing" signs? Not something painted on a log and not some 10 year old sign that is too faded to read.

Absolutely. We have about a mile of road frontage which is posted about every 20 feet and maintained regularly. I also use white paint on trees to post the property since it's harder to tear down.
The signs seem to just be a message board for them to voice their opinions of us. They shoot the signs when we aren't around and write inflammatory statements with sharpies on them.

Sounds to me like you *really* need to setup something with either the local Sheriffs Deputies or DNR LE so you can get some of their time. If you can't get any help from LE you need to go up the food chain until someone listens. Hell find an officer that lives close by and get his number.

Trespassing leads to other crime and it's seriously frowned on in GA.

You need some of these guys caught and charged, if you make a few cases on them the word will get out.

Sounds like you've got a problem with the local white trash.

Yeah, the locals are a waste of time. We're only using them to file reports of the harassment in case someone takes it way too far.

Posted: 6/2/2008 6:44:30 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
can you post pics of the damage?

I had pics on my flash drive, but it crapped out on me the other day. I'll take a few pics when I'm up there again in a couple days.

Posted: 6/2/2008 6:45:19 AM EDT

[#35]

Three of these roming at will will do it:

Posted: 6/2/2008 6:47:02 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
That's a neat toy. Wish we had that when I was paintballing.

People have been hand- making variations on that design for a looooooong time... Some pipe, fittings, a lawn sprinkler solenoid and you're gtg.

Posted: 6/2/2008 6:47:58 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
i82.photobucket.com/albums/j251/smithflatfender/deadlyforce_sign.jpg

FROM HERE Almost to the bottom of the page.

I think they'd take that as a challenge.

Heh....

Posted: 6/2/2008 6:53:08 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
With the blatant escalation and in-your-face defiance of these people, I would definitely up the ante. Any wakeup call will need to be swift and harsh.

Something would happen to any vehicle left unattended. Something majorly catastrophic... not paintballs. Maybe a tree would fall on it. Maybe broken windows. Maybe burn trash near the vehicle and let the fire get out of control. I don't know. But whatever it would be, it would make your place too expensive to trespass on.

The way these people are acting is well beyond the "fun and games" approach. Ramming fences, cutting locks and writing defiant messages on your signs? They know the game they're playing and winning and won't stop until you play your trump cards.

Don't you think that some of this sprayed into the cab of their vehicle would stay with them and cause some heartache?

Posted: 6/2/2008 6:55:12 AM EDT

[#39]

Others have said this, but I'll say it again...

Caltrops!

throw them anywhere you see wheeled vehicles go. The good thing is no one can prove that you were the one to put them there... maybe it was a pissed off hunter?

Posted: 6/2/2008 6:58:19 AM EDT

[#40]

Would it be morally wrong to drill their gas tanks and take their gas for your troubles?

Posted: 6/2/2008 7:00:06 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
With the blatant escalation and in-your-face defiance of these people, I would definitely up the ante. Any wakeup call will need to be swift and harsh.

Something would happen to any vehicle left unattended. Something majorly catastrophic... not paintballs. Maybe a tree would fall on it. Maybe broken windows. Maybe burn trash near the vehicle and let the fire get out of control. I don't know. But whatever it would be, it would make your place too expensive to trespass on.

The way these people are acting is well beyond the "fun and games" approach. Ramming fences, cutting locks and writing defiant messages on your signs? They know the game they're playing and winning and won't stop until you play your trump cards.

Don't you think that some of this sprayed into the cab of their vehicle would stay with them and cause some heartache?

Nope. I'm talking major punishment, not frat house pranks. Destroy the vehicles.

I'd like to clarify that my approach is only for situations where law enforcement has chosen to consistently look the other way when the trespassers are doing things like the OP has mentioned and there is no other recourse.

Also, look into turning in local LE to the state for corruption and dereliction of duty.

Posted: 6/2/2008 7:04:25 AM EDT

[#42]

Ahh hell, beta mag dump on their cars.

Posted: 6/2/2008 7:05:12 AM EDT

[#43]

Look up your local predatory towing company, offer them a "Parking Lot" contract; Any vehicle parked on your private property with out the required parking permit gets towed at the vehicle owners expense.

Authorise the tow company to occasionally "sweep" the property.

Problem solved.

Posted: 6/2/2008 7:08:37 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:
With the blatant escalation and in-your-face defiance of these people, I would definitely up the ante. Any wakeup call will need to be swift and harsh.

Something would happen to any vehicle left unattended. Something majorly catastrophic... not paintballs. Maybe a tree would fall on it. Maybe broken windows. Maybe burn trash near the vehicle and let the fire get out of control. I don't know. But whatever it would be, it would make your place too expensive to trespass on.

The way these people are acting is well beyond the "fun and games" approach. Ramming fences, cutting locks and writing defiant messages on your signs? They know the game they're playing and winning and won't stop until you play your trump cards.

Don't you think that some of this sprayed into the cab of their vehicle would stay with them and cause some heartache?

Even better: Yellowjacket bait

Posted: 6/2/2008 7:09:51 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Look up your local predatory towing company, offer them a "Parking Lot" contract; Any vehicle parked on your private property with out the required parking permit gets towed at the vehicle owners expense.

Authorise the tow company to occasionally "sweep" the property.

Problem solved.

An excellent solution.

Posted: 6/2/2008 7:09:51 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Look up your local predatory towing company, offer them a "Parking Lot" contract; Any vehicle parked on your private property with out the required parking permit gets towed at the vehicle owners expense.

Authorise the tow company to occasionally "sweep" the property.

Problem solved.

+1 also damaging there vehicle works wonders also

. Something about broken windows and slashed tires keeps people off the property well. Or you can always pull the trump car and fire bomb their vehicle.

To the sites ATF team I have never commited said act so please don t shoot my dog

Posted: 6/2/2008 7:10:18 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Fish and Wildlife agents live for this shit. Try them. Idiot.

Nice personal attack and CoC violation. Thanks for shitting in the thread.

Idiot

See also: Code of Conduct: ar15.com/content/page.html?id=5

Guy wants to deal with "I've personally run off 40+ fishermen/poachers/coon hunters/shooters/vandals over the past 3 years" with paintball toys, and I'm in the wrong for calling him out?

Yes you are wrong for making personal attacks, regardless of your opinion.

I made no personal attack. It was an opinion.

Having the opinion that someone is an Idiot is just having an opinion... Sharing that opinion with the OP and everyone else in this thread by CALLING HIM AN IDIOT is a personal attack and a violation of the Conduct Code - regardless of whether or not it's your 'Opinion'.

Posted: 6/2/2008 7:10:36 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Look up your local predatory towing company, offer them a "Parking Lot" contract; Any vehicle parked on your private property with out the required parking permit gets towed at the vehicle owners expense.

Authorise the tow company to occasionally "sweep" the property.

Problem solved.

Now I like that idea...

They get towed, somebody else deals with the jerks, and they're out $$$ every time they get caught.

OP gets what he wants (idiots off his property), tow company gets what they want ($$$), and he's not as likely to have to shoot somebody.

Posted: 6/2/2008 7:16:04 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Look up your local predatory towing company, offer them a "Parking Lot" contract; Any vehicle parked on your private property with out the required parking permit gets towed at the vehicle owners expense.

Authorise the tow company to occasionally "sweep" the property.

Problem solved.

It sounds like the property has at least one side along a public road, I don't think you can get a vehicle towed if its just parked on the side of the road and they walk in.

Posted: 6/2/2008 7:16:29 AM EDT

[#50]

We're dealing with the same issues on my ranch right now... Local idiots think they have the right to do whatever, just because they say so. Local LEOs dont care, F&G are too understaffed, etc. I'll let you know, in private, how my solution works out

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Thoughts on dealing with trespassers. (Page 2 of 3)

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