People who profess Christianity but forget the teachings of Christ are hippocrites, go look in the mirror and be ashamned of yourselves.
Lebrew

#3 is not "Fucking Anti-Mormon propaganda".  It is religious doctrine.  True Christians believe that you get salvation through the Grace of God and Faith.  Our LDS friends believe in a deeds based salvation.  

I have personally experienced #4 so please don't say that it is "Fucking Anti-Mormon propaganda".

I am glad that I live in a a country that has a sizable LDS population.  We are stronger for it.  I like Mormons.  They are the most decent group of people I know.  They love their children and try to do the right thing.  We non LDS people could learn a lot from them.  If anyone thought I was LDS bashing by posting items #3 and 4 has it wrong.  Again, I love them, have tremendous respect for them, glad they are part of us but I just don't want to join their cult.  It is not the road to salvation.

What to do if they come knocking at your door.  1.  Be nice to them.  2.  If you have a strong Christian faith try to make them understand that  God gave his only begotten Son to die for their sins.  If they don't want to accept your witness then wish them well and send them on their way.  

I know of what I speak I was a morman until I opened my mind up to read about something other that the book of mormon or the pearls of great price. I am very educated about my former religion and I am now a true christian.
My great great great grandfather was sent into the logan valley by brother brigham to settle the area for the church with his three currant wives and many other people so I know a whole lot more about church history I also have access to very old books of mormon would you like to talk about the many updates or revisions that have been done to this so called most perfect book.

I am not saying the members are bad just very misled. I know I have seen both sides I live in it every day 99% of my family still blindly follows and will not read anything that says differant
Did you know that before founding the mormon religion that Joeseph smith and his father were arrested for conning people with seeing stones that would tell there future, in new york, this is in public records.

And just which "cult" do you believe in ??
And BTW, please give me your definition of a "cult"

I'll ask you the same question.  Please be so kind as to tell us what your religion is since you are a "true Christian"

I'm not a Mormon and I couldn't care less how they choose to worship.  That being said, my best friend is a Mormon.  I spent this last summer up in Utah hanging out with him.  He has a HUGE family and they treated me like I was one of them.  Not once did they try to convert me or even talk religion with me.  The whole bunch of them are extremely pro-gun too.  I have a lot of respect for my friend.  He's polite, hard working, intelligent and doesn't force his religion on others.  While he doesn't drink alcohol and tea and doesn't smoke, he's the only Mormon I've come across that cusses more than I do. [:D]

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Well said, Flash66.  I have in-laws that converted to LDS (Southern Baptists, no less) and were raised to know better.  God could've placed us anywhere on this planet, born into a non-christian family, from a rock chucking Palestinian to some godless commie in China.  I have many friends and co-workers who are LDS and are RKBA, conservative, ethical, good, and honest people.  I have found Dr Walter Martins book "Kingdom of the Cults" to be an excellent resource to wade through cult history, teachings and deviations from biblical theology.  When I talk to individuals belongng to a non-christian religion, I never discuss what they believe, because I don't know what they really believe.  I do discuss what their religion claims as theological underpinnings and how it differs from christianity.  I'm familiar with most cult teachings, at least on a conversational level.  

Some poor mislead souls here.



I bet even plowboy could verify that this is totally false. No crap God gave his only begotten for our sins.

The fact that we focus on three seperate entitys? God, Christ, and the Holy Ghost makes perfect sense to me. So God sat up in heaven but at the same time put himself into Marys womb lived and died. Is it not possible they are different people? Read revelations about battles in the pre existance. Seems there were other souls or things before creation.

Why could we not die and become like our Father in Heaven. Go take a look outside tonight. Think about the known and billions of unknown GALIXIES. If there is indeed a God why would he not let us try creation in the afterlife? You want your kids to grow up to be like you or do better that you did. Why would we not have the same chance after death?

Using this same logic, I could argue that Catholics are not "Christian" because they believe in sainthood.

Dude, chill out a bit.  This post was by Imbroglio, our resident sarcastic.  It was so over the top it is meant to be ironic.  When you see posts like these, ask yourself, could he possibly be serious?

That said, as many don't fully understand the LDS, use this as an opportunity to educate, not get all pissy.

And as I stated in my previous post, I don't agree with the LDS faith, but the ones I know are damn fine people, and that is being ahead of the game in my book.

What the hell is wrong with libertarians?
We are some of the biggest gun nuts and a heck of a lot of us are heavily armed.
Nobody is more pro-gun than the Libertarians.
The basic creed is Get The Damn Government Out Of My Life!
Of course many are not real social and as for the LP stance on drugs I don't agree completely on that.

In regards to Plowboy and Flash66, as well as the other pseudo-intellectual Mormon Bashers, I must profess that I am not as good a Mormon as I should be. For instance, stupid assholes such as yourself totally piss me off. But then I am an ex-Idaho and Wyoming cop and I thought that I was done with complete and total "idjits" such as yourself. Alas, it is not to be. I guess I am more of the Porter Rockwell type of Mormon. If you are interested, get one of your kids (or is it brother or sister in your case) to look it up for you and read it to you. It is a great story. Maybe they can act it out for you with stick figures or something. Tell them to keep it down to about 2 minutes so that you can keep your attention up. It does involve guns so you should be okay. Sorry, no naked women, dogs, trucks, beer, booze, gambling, trains.

To say that Mormons are not Christian is just plain  ignorant. The name of Jesus Christ is in the freaking title for crying out loud. Also, the so-called salvation argument is also a load of crap. Ever heard of "faith without works is dead." I don't care where it came from, it is true. You guys want to believe that you can be total bigoted hateful simple minded assholes all of your life and then believe that you will achieve eternal salvation just because God likes you. Give me a break. You are here on this Earth because you chose to come here and agreed to be tested and to live the best life possible, then gain your "eternal reward." Surely you have heard of that concept. It ain't a reward if you don't earn it, but are just given it. However, just being given it is a bit easier for us lazy types to deal with isn't it. It is not God's concept, but is man's bastardization of God's concept, just like so many other things.

As to the missionaries, I never was a full time missionary, getting married at 19 almost 30 years ago, but I raised and supported three of them. Best thing they ever did. Though they had a lot of people like you to deal with, they ate it up for lunch. Too bad that some young men and women love you enough, even without knowing your sunny disposition, to want to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ with you. They could be out furthering their careers and lives by going to school and doing other things, but instead they were trying to help you. However, this life is not all there is, is it? They devote 18 months to two years to try to help YOU, you ingrate. As for them giving up, it isn't going to happen. I have a friend who was more of a prick then you two combined could ever have been. He was a true redneck. He ate missionaries for lunch. However, one day he was feeling a bit down and finally shut his pie hole and listened, instead of spouting rhetoric from scriptures that he, like you, didn't really understand. He joined the Church eventually and is stalwart and strong these many years. They won't give up nor should they.

Sorry for not turning the other cheek like I should have maybe done. However, just sitting here and listening to you spout lies was a bit too much to tolerate.

(Yes-you are right. I am a cocky bas-ard. My testimony of the truth and of Jesus Christ is unshakable. You have no clue as to the spiritual and actual gifts and blessings that are yours to have and rely on when you have the Holy Ghost guiding you and protecting you throughout the day. I know the difference first hand. As for me and my house, we will serve God. You can serve Bud Light if you like, but it doesn't last.)

[img]www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/thumb.gif[/img]

Here are some of the things that drew me from my former faith. Danaesq were do you belive the garden of eden is? I always thought it was in the middle east at the converg of the tigres and euphrates rivers I have even been there during my time in desert storm, but no my stake president told me that was wrong we as mormons belive that it is in independence MO. How can that be it is in total conflict with what the bible teaches and am also supposed to belive in the teachings of the bible.

The last pair I had....ran for their lives after I asked if they wanted to come in...have some sex and talk about god....

Hey the one was pretty good looking 20 something....the other.....well she was WELL into her 60s so I would have done her second!

Danesq I know all about porter rockwell and think he was a great helper in defending members of my family so save it.
When you say you are a porter rockwell type of mormon what do you mean are you a hired gun or body gaurd for the church.

mzzlebrk

You have provided imbroglio with the exact reaction he was trying for.  I'll say no more than look up the meaning of his screen name.

I see the Mormons all over the place but they never seem to make it by.  They do volunteer for various projects in the city, like beach clean-ups etc.

The JW come by pretty regular and I talk with them for a few minutes, then again, I've got more time than they do usually.  Very polite and if I give them a hint I'm busy or leaving they just leave some literature.

plowboy, do you mind answering the question I asked in my post above where I quoted you ?

Yes plowboy you are supposed to believe in the teachings of the Bible. But my first question to you would be to ask yourself does the Bible really teach that Eden was located at the Tigris and Euphrates river? Genesis does not mention the exact location and the first reference I could find naming the Euphrates was in the time of Abraham (Gen 15:18) So what you have claimed to be a teaching of the Bible is nothing more than a man-made assumption. So the LDS teaching of Eden being in Independence is in conflict with the teachings of men, not God.

Eden; the garden God made, in the beginning, as a place for his people to live in.  After they had disobeyed him, God sent Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden.  Two of the rivers in it were the Tigris and the Euphrates.  Genesis 2:8-14.

There seems to be no mention of independence MO.

I must appologize to Imbroglio for jumping the gun and calling you a punk. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and some good harrasment. [:D]

Sounds like the way we are going on about this religious business we may end up like the Middle East.

Out before the lock

Well said!

Hey, any of you ever been to Independence, Mo.?
I think not. If it ain't paradise it sure beats the middle of the freakin war torn middle east for me!

(Umm... just kidding here, this is humor, not an attempt to praise or damn the LDS folk)

Was it really necessary to come back with such a vicious attack?  I haven't been called a "stupid asshole' for at least a week or so.  Did you bother to read the good things I said, or did your rage overtake you?  As I get older I should know better than comment on someone's else religion beliefs.  However, since you have already exposed me as an idiot(sic) I can't let it drop.  I have to make one more comment on you "deeds" statement.

If I remember correctly Jesus took away the sins of one of the criminals on the cross with him.  That criminal did not get married in a temple or go on a mission or have 20 wives.  He did not have a good life.  All he did was take Jesus as his Savior. That is the Grace that God gave all of us.  All we have to do accept that Grace by Faith.

you cant get rid of them like some say.  Ive answer the door but naked fresh out the shower and they still come back.  That was jahova or however its spelled.  I answered the door with a shit load of guns on the table in full view and the mormons keep coming.  (it was cleaning day) One day i thought it was my buddy knocking so i yelled come in.  No one came in then they knocked again.  open the door bitch i yelled.  got another knock.  THen i swung open the door and said 'motherfucker i said... ohh who are you?'  They still tried their spill about john smith.

flash66, plowboy....do you care to answer the questions I asked of you in previous posts ??

I'm confused, so maybe so one more knowledgeable can clear this up for me. How can you be a mormon and a christian ?  I don't know squat about the Mormon beliefs, but from what I've read on this thread about their beliefs, it doesn't fit the definition of a Christian. By the same token you wouldn't be a Christian if you believed in the Mormon beliefs. Again, I'm basing this on what I've read about the Mormon beliefs on this thread so I could be out to lunch if I'm receiving wrong intel. To me, if the intel is correct, it sounds the same as saying " I'm  anti-gun, but I'm also pro-gun ".
The old bait and switch, so to speak.

007
________________________________________________
I don't have a liscense to kill, but I got a learners permit.

Because I'm not smart enough to keep my mouth shut I have already said more than I wanted to say about LDS.  To go into a discussion about why the Mormon religion is a cult would serve no useful pupose.  Look to history and the structure of the LDS Church to answer that question.

Again, our Mormon friends are great people and brothers in arms.  I'm going to extract myself from this discussion before I further offend good people that don't deserve being offended by dumb rednecks like me.

Regarding the location of the Garden of Eden:

According to creationists (which I assume Plowboy is since he is so big on the literal word of Genesis) the flood of Noah somehow carved the grand canyon, accounts for the thousands of layers of sedimentations and fossilized life forms found my geologists, carved every fjord, created the great lakes, and all terrain features associated by mainstream science as glacier-based, accounts for all volcanic rock evidence throughout the geological time-table, and covered the highest mountains while subsiding in just a matter of days. Yet somehow the Tigris and Euphrates rivers were left unscathed and flowed exactly as and where they did prior?

Is it not possible that even if the Noachian flood were true that people from that time would rename mountains and rivers where they found themselves newly settled after the names of the ones in their old homeland? I mean, we still do that today. We have a Cambridge in Massachussetts, for example. Not to mention all the uses of "New" -  New York, New Hampshire, New South Wales, New Mexico.


Adam

Ah yes, but you must understand - many of these "Christians" do not believe that Catholics are true Christians either.


Adam

This was a fine example of the kind of good christian response. Name calling and character assination. Well done. You even proved my point.
Thanks

Plowboy....an answer ??

From a previous post:
"I'll ask you the same question. Please be so kind as to tell us what your religion is since you are a "true Christian"

Why does it matter?

Well, here's how it works.

Mormons believe that after Christ was resurrected, he also appeared to the peoples of the American continent.  The Book of Mormon is the record of this, to go hand-in-hand with the bible.

Well you do live in Kalifonia, I guess they are trying their best.

Umm..Does it say this in the Bible ? Does the Bible say anything about referring to the "Book of Mormon" for further details ? I have read passages from the Bible which state that everything we need to know has been recorded for us in the Bible, thus the term "The Bible".
Maybe I missed something in there about page 43 continued in "The book of mormon". Seriously, can you point out a passage for me that says anything at all about the "book of mormon".

Woah woah, put the brakes on there.


As I said earlier, I'm not saying I belive this.  I don't know [b]what[/b] I believe right now.

You asked how the two could go together, and that's how.

The debate you're getting into with the last question is something I'm not even going to get near.  My only point is, Mormon = Christian.  Mormons believe everything in the Bible is true.  That's all.

Once again, glad I'm not a Christian.

I almost married into Mormanism but I couldnt get through the first ten pages of the BOM without laughing out loud and rolling around on the floor. To this day I maintain that it was an early draft by L.Ron Hubbard.

Most of them are good people, the sort I'd want as neighbors. I have some good memories of living and working on the farm with my 'almost-inlaws'. The only Mormans who come to my place anymore just use it as excuse to come over and talk guns (we buy and sell a lot to eachother). I had a house-mate in college, a non-practicing Jew, who got a pair to come over all the time, after two weeks they were drinking, after a month they were drunk as skunks and going home with strange women from whatever party was going on next door.

If I had no life that sort of thing would appeal to me, twisting young missionaries, but I just dont have the sort of patience and perversion that Alex had.

Ryan

I am of the Persuasion that a mans home is his Castle, - Do Not Disturb or Attempt to dictate what I can do here.

Mormon historically condoned multiple wives, -[b]Not PC or legal.[/b]

But if a guy were to say "This is my wife, and this is my mistress I knocked up, and this is my Bisexual mistress' significant other..." That is a PC (L.A. style) reason to be living with 3 women. And no one would say shit!

The two taboo subjects are politics and religion. - We always [i]Have to[/i] talk politics because it is necessary for the survival of our collective gun rights. Maybe we should leave religion as a topic for different forums/boards.

I work all sorts of bizarre shifts - They bang on the door, I play dead, since I usually am during daylight hours.

I also hate anyone trying to tell me what I can or cannot do within the privacy of my own home.

I don't have any problem with JW-types, but .... for those of you that can't deal with them, you can always ask the Feds to enroll you in the Jehovah's Witness Protection Plan.

Plowboy:  I never said that I was perfect and I am not. I am just not as evolved as some other members of the Church who have the ability to let some crap for brains badmouth something they know little about. You got some given back to you. Be a big boy and deal with it. It just irritates the snot out of me to have ex-members trash something that they never took the time to learn about in the first place. Got your feelings hurt? Sorry.  Mormons have been based since 1830 and I am tired of it. We have been driven out of our homes, had extermination orders issued by a governor, harassed by federal authorities and troops, had our leaders murdered, had members massacred, had our temples defiled by mobs, had missionaries attacked and some murdered, had church houses burned down, church buildings vandalized, had hateful things published by persons such as yourself and generally been treated like crap. Satan is a busy puppy. Note that from the "missionaries attacked" comment and on down ALL of those things mentioned have happened in this day and age, not back in the 1800's.

I have also had it with the cult comments. Don't understand a religion, call it a cult. Don't believe in its teachings, call it a non-Christian cult. I think that it is kind of hard to call it a cult with 10 plus million members worldwide and growing by leaps and bounds. ALL ordinances are done in the name of Jesus Christ, the Bible is taught extensively, along with other works unique to this continent and this dispensation, and the name of Jesus Christ is in the name of the church. Get it now. It is a Christian church.

No, some of us are too educated about it and thus you cannot explain away the unexplainable.



The goal of the Mormon church is to "appear" as Christian to lure in the unsuspecting...



I did a LOT of research when I had a mormon girlfriend.  If I didn't, I would believe the lies about the LDS church being "Christian".  



That is true!  Like I said, I had a Mormon girlfriend (parents didn't like me of course), and I had a Mormon friend at the last place I worked... good people of course!  But that doesn't mean I have to believe Joseph Smith and his Egyptian (I think?) tablets (you know the ones that translate into something entirely different than what he "translated").  

I once moved in to a new apartment years ago. About a week later, I heard a knock at my door.
IT was some J.W. visiting me on a sunday. This happen for about three weeks in a row. each time was a different couple or father and son.

We were still unpacking when I told my wife I was going to hang my deer heads near the front door. While needless to say, They came again. I haven't seen them since. I guess those heads must of got them to take my name off their "To Visit List".  [shock]

Last time the JWs came to the door I had the two 100lb. girls barking right next to me.  They couldn't get away fast enough, throwing their magazine at me and running down the driveway.

The young Mormon guy asked if could pet them.  At least he had balls.

Wow! the reply above wasn't needed.  I was TOTALLY [shock] at the direction this topic was going.

I am totally  [:O] .

I can't believe I am reading this on this forum.  For a bunch of "usually know what their talking about" and "take care of their own" people you sure are having a sad day.  I dont post often but I read almost daily and always fight the good fight against gun control and our freedoms.  I am a member of the LDS church, my wife on the other hand is Greek Orthodox (read Roman Cathelic with minor differences).  Almost all of the members I know NEVER slander other religions or other beliefs, we just dont believe they are true.  I just finished Catachism sp? classes so I can tell you why WE are not considered christians.  Greek Ortho and Roman Cath used to be same church, they split on some minor diffs, but according to them you are Catholics if you are good poeple, do good works and believe in the Trinity ( Mormons don't, we believe they are 3 seperate beings).  Also we believe we will be judged for our works, not merely do what you want belive in Christ and be saved, we believe in accountability ( a major problem with most people today including our Gov officials).  We believe God will give us "All that he Has" which would lead you to believe (or us at least) een his power, for we believe his is our Father in Heaven, and as most parents are you want the most for your children, you would give them everything you if it made them better, so we believe our God is the same way.  Greek Ortho (so I am assuming Caths do to) belive in the trinity, that God is without form or Gender (This I delved into deep with many priests as I cant belive in "the Force" but thats me, I'm not knocking their religion I just cant buy into it).  We believe God has a body of Flesh and blood as does Christ, but the holy ghost is a spirit.   Those diff's is why the LDS members are not considered Christians.  Now back to WHY IN THE HECK ARE YOU BASHING A RELIGON THAT SUPPORTS THE SAME FREEDOMS YOU DO??  Why would you discriminate against a group of people that are self supporting, charitable but not charity, take care of their own, are willing to defend their rights and beliefs with their lives, are family based, teach good values, help out for no other reason than for the good feeling it gives them (Food also gets a great turnout with mormons I"ll admit it)  Please people the reason those young men and women are out there is because they have found something in their lives the believe in passionately and just want to share with you not because they have nothing better to do.  I would reason MANY of the LDS faith support gun rights, I know quite a few that have small arsonals like myself ( and have many cool guns that I would be glad to let you shoot).  Why on earth would you want disown, disassosiate, and disband us from your ranks, because a few guys were trying to share something with you that changed their lives while you were downloading porn while your family was gone is beyond me.  It reaffirms my belief that the gun culture, those who believe in firearms for our preservation of freedoms and because we just love guns, shooting and hearing things go BOOM are held back, ridiculed by the media, and are made to look bad by the few such as yourself.  I'm barely 24, a big time gun freak, firm in my beliefs of God and Country, don't think I'm even close to perfect or even that us Mormons are perfect (far from it, like over there far from it) but I think we pretty dang good neighboors.  I love my privacy as much as you do, I don't care what you believe or practice, as long as it doesnt infringe on the free will of others.  I really dont care, neither do most of those I know.  I don't want to get in a religous debate, I'm prob not gonna post on this again.  I just hate to see ignorance and stupidity ran rampant on MY SIDE, isnt that why we are all battling for our gun rights in the first place?  Have some decency and some common sense before you post and shoot your "side/team/friends?" in the foot. Believe what ya want, discuss religion on another site, but dont start picking a fight with your own side when the leads flying, not a good policy.


Witch Hunter out

WOW! That was some first post! But you really oughta look into using the great invention we call, "the paragraph" [:D]


Adam