The wife understands why I CCW after Saturday.... - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The wife understands why I CCW after Saturday.... (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 1/30/2002 11:25:49 AM EDT

[#1]

I would have shot the dog at 10-15 feet after drawing down at least one and a half the standard human defense distance or approximately 30 feet. If I am walking down a residential street the dog stops itself at the fog line on the pavement or I will. I can't believe the 'wrestle it with your bare hands' or 'see if pepper spray works first' bull I am hearing. I must be in the Sylvester Stallone forum. It's a dog. If it is already acting in a threating manner ie. running hard at me while baring teeth or growling, it gets the same treatment I would give a human -death. Planerench out.

Posted: 1/30/2002 11:37:45 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Hey jackass,

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Oh goody - I'm dealing with someone with a strong command of the English language....

I'm a PAID TEAM member of AR15.com, something that A3kid can't say.

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Which enhances the value of your comments here???? Stupid and inflammatory is STILL stupid and inflammatory, regardless of how much you paid to say it.

what does concern me is some loser unloading his gun in public when he doesn't know who is behind the tall brush in his direct line of fire.

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Try reading WITH comprehension. He DID NOT discharge his firearm. So your ENTIRE point is MOOT.

Why don't you go take a walk in the woods with him and when a bunny jumps out of the brush and he unloads you can tell him "Great job, it was a threat to your family's safety and well being, he could have killed you."

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yeah, a bunny is a good comparison to a German shepard with its teeth bared. [rolleyes]

Do you have ANY idea what an IDIOT you sound like right now???

Of course, i don't pesonally beleive you are an idiot, but given insipid statements like this one, I'd have a hard time making a case otherwise.

besides, everyone knows if I went walking thru the woods with A3kid, I'd be able to draw and shoot the hideous, festering rabbittus hoppicus before A3 could even clear leather.

Now go back to your den, little troll boy.

[}:D]

Posted: 1/30/2002 11:47:38 AM EDT

[#3]

C'mon garandman, there's no teeth bared, here:

". Suddenly, a big white german shephard type dog rounded the corner in front of us and came straight at us. He carried his head & tail low, the hair on his back was standing up and he never took his eyes off of Serena - he came in fast - not running but just short of it.."

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People who know dogs, know that the above description is of nothing more than a cautious dog, approaching another dog.
a3kid's concern was prudent, but all this talk of justifiable gun-play is crap.

Posted: 1/30/2002 11:49:49 AM EDT

[#4]

I can't say I've ever had to point a gun at a dog, and I've never been attacked by one either, but once I was working at the side of an apartment building in the course of my job, and some lady pulls up into a nearby parking lot, gets out, and opens the side door of her minivan. A rather large German Shepherd is inside, sees me, and jumps right out for me with probably a good 25 foot starting leap. At full gallop, mind you! The range was about 200 yards and dropping quickly, but I had enough time to arm myself with an 8 inch (blade length) screwdriver and get ready.

Fortunately, I'm very good with animals and never met a dog I couldn't make friends with unless he was a psycho. I read the dog's body language as he was running and wasn't too surprised when he skidded to a halt right in front of me, licked my face a few times, and then ran off to Mama, who had spent the whole short episode trying to recall her errant mutt.
I'm quite sure she's as happy that I didn't stick a screwdriver in her dog's eye as I am.

In the same job I once was surprised by a somewhat aggressive pit bull who charged me, and I began to turn and run, but rethought my position, (you've probably heard not to run from a pit bull), turned, (same screwdriver in one hand, sharp scissors in the other) and charged the little bastard. He skidded to a halt, turned, stuck his little chopped tail between his legs, and ran off as fast as he could. I didn't really have a choice. Either he'd attack me or he wouldn't, so I took the initiative to strike first or run him off.

Despite what others have said, I fear no dog. I trust my ability to make friends with any dog that's not a nutcase, my discretion in avoiding those that are, and my physical advantages (Good reflexes, two hands to grasp, rip, and punch with, two feet to kick and stomp with, four knees and elbows to strike with, and if need be, a mouthful of 32 healthy teeth to bite with, plus knowledge of dog physiology to help me disable a dog effectively) will be used to their best ability if it should ever become necessary. The best reflex: Draw, point, and shoot. But if I'm not carrying, I'm sure I'll do as well against any particular dog as most people will. I certainly won't just give up!

CJ

Posted: 1/30/2002 11:50:40 AM EDT

[#5]

a3kid,
You did the right thing. When I was younger I used ride my bicycle 30-40 miles a day and dogs chasing me was an almsot everyday occurence. Pepper spray, bleach in a spray bottle just isn't enough to even slow a determined dog down, especially a German Shepard. The cops use that breed for a reason! The only thing I found that worked was a gun(carried a small 22 revolver) or a hefty piece of chain w/padlock on the end of it.
In my area of Ohio, we now have leash laws to prevent such occurences, therefore if someone's dog acts aggresively and attacks you or yours, they are responsible for any damages and you can defend yourself without fear. Having a child or children in any threat situation definitely changes EVERYTHING! If some don't think so then, they either don't have kids or are stupid enough they shouldn't breed and pass that gene on.[pissed]
Maybe one day we will elect a governor here that won't act like the leader of the gestapo, reaffirming our rights to carry.

Posted: 1/30/2002 11:50:45 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
In conclusion I would save the gun for a human that poses a threat, dogs aren't that big of deal, UNLESS the dog outweighs you.

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Hey Wolfpack, no offense, but you're a fvcking moron. I dog almost took my eye out when I was 17 and I easily outweighed it by 80 pounds. Dogs are dogs as MM said, direct descendants of the wolf. I give stray dogs a wider berth than stray humans, don't you?

Oh yeah, are you saying you're "smart" enough to fight off a 100 pound Rotteiler? I love dogs more than any other animal, but you definately have to do what's neccessary when you also have your family with you. I believe A3KID had more reservation than I would have considering his family was there. By the way, only way I got the dog off was a few punches to the doggy sack and he crawled away like a wimpering....well....dog.

Posted: 1/30/2002 11:53:44 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

People who know dogs, know that the above description is of nothing more than a cautious dog, approaching another dog.
a3kid's concern was prudent, but all this talk of justifiable gun-play is crap.

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So was A3 suppsoed to wait til the german shepard was tearing his dog limb from limb to reach for his side arm, or till it had finished his dog off and went for seconds on his little girl?????

He didn't fire the gun. Period. Anything less, in the scenario he described is justifiable, IMO.

Posted: 1/30/2002 11:56:47 AM EDT

[#8]

A3, your actions seem just, I would have no problem doing the same in your situation. This does however remind me of the South Park episode where one of the kids goes on a hunting trip with a psycotic gun loven guy and his buddy with the trach unit. Every time they saw a animal they wanted they shot it prefacing it with "Oh No! It's attacking us!" Funny as HELL! [50]
BrenLover

Posted: 1/30/2002 11:57:14 AM EDT

[#9]

I agree, he did the right thing.
He used sound judgement and caution.

HOWEVER, there are those here who are saying he should have shot, or it would have been OK to shoot.
They're quite obviously wrong.

Posted: 1/30/2002 11:58:25 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

People who know dogs, know that the above description is of nothing more than a cautious dog, approaching another dog.

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And people that know dogs know EVERY dog is unique unto itself.

Its small consolation AFTER an unknown dog has mauled either your own animal or child to think "Well, it only LOOKED like a cautious dog."

A3 did the right thing. he was ready to dispatch the dog the INSTANT it made a decision to harm his dog or child. ANd that DEMANDS having the gun in the ready position.

Its funny to watch you talk about this in a vacuum, when we ALL know if you were wearing A3's tennis shoes that day, you'd have done the same thing. As would I.

Posted: 1/30/2002 12:00:16 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

People who know dogs, know that the above description is of nothing more than a cautious dog, approaching another dog.

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And people that know dogs know EVERY dog is unique unto itself.

Its small consolation AFTER an unknown dog has mauled either your own animal or child to think "Well, it only LOOKED like a cautious dog."

A3 did the right thing. he was ready to dispatch the dog the INSTANT it made a decision to harm his dog or child. ANd that DEMANDS having the gun in the ready position.

Its funny to watch you talk about this in a vacuum, when we ALL know if you were wearing A3's tennis shoes that day, you'd have done the same thing. As would I.

Posted: 1/30/2002 12:01:33 PM EDT

[#12]

Read my words.
I agree with his actions.

Read.
Think.
Reply.

Posted: 1/30/2002 12:03:23 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
I agree, he did the right thing.
He used sound judgement and caution.

HOWEVER, there are those here who are saying he should have shot, or it would have been OK to shoot.
They're quite obviously wrong.

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OK, my mistake, I apologize.

I misunderstood you. Should have read more carefully.

Peace.

Posted: 1/30/2002 12:09:32 PM EDT

[#14]

If this dog were to latch on, no biting, punching or stabbing would get him off of you...
Ain't he a beauty?[:)]
[img]http://www.sporting-dog.com/photos/Neillson.jpg[/img]

...and he probably only weighs about 60 lbs.

(Luckily, REAL fighting Pits are rarely man-attackers)

Posted: 1/30/2002 3:39:34 PM EDT

[#15]

I guess some of us just aren't afraid of dogs I guess, Garandman I mentioned I was a paying member cause of the little troll comment you made. Just cause I have a job and can't run up 4000+ posts doesn't make me a troll. I supported the site with my $$, so you can forget that troll stuff. I guess some of us know how to handle certain situations, like I said I have been bitten by a German Shepard, but that was my fault cause I was young and ran. I have been confronted by Rotts, Pits, Bullmastiffs, Mastiffs, and a number of other dogs and everytime I have gotten out of being bit without using any weapons. If you face 99% of dogs and get assume an aggressive posture you will NOT be attacked. A3, like I said the first one the stray will go for is your dog, which is what you said happened. Your wife and kid were behind you so how would they get bit?? I personally would have pulled your pup back behind me and seen what would have happened, the dog would have a choice to leave or fight you and he would have left. I am not some animal rights pyscho who doesn't want any dog killed for any reason. If I had any family or friend with me and we had 2 or more strays come up on us and they outweighed us, then I might shoot if they started to attack and did not back down. Animal control officers who deal with bad dogs all day hardly ever have to use any weapons to subdue a dog, it's all attitude. The scenario you presented would of had to end up with you and your dog being killed in order for your kid to be hurt, your telling me a 60 pound German Shepard with the worst attitude could KILL you?? If your bit would you just crumble to the ground and raise the French surrender flag? A few of the guys that have responded to this thread know what I'm talking about, dogs aren't that big of threat, and another thing, don't be too afraid of coyotes...they are afraid of just about ANY domestic dog. We used to take a 25 pound dog with us horseback riding and coyotes would not approach when they saw him. Also there is NOT ONE reported attack by a healthy wolf upon a human, they too, are afraid of us. Arf Arf [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/mica/MiscDogrun.gif[/img]

Edited to add...Pitbull jaws DO NOT lock as most think, but they do have a hell of a grip.

Posted: 1/30/2002 6:26:07 PM EDT

[#16]

Sh*t... My wife would have shot it first! But you did the right thing. This is just another example of how everyday events could possibly turn into tragic events. And just another reason to [always] be armed.

ARnSC

Posted: 1/30/2002 7:08:34 PM EDT

[#17]

WolfPack, you werent there, he did what he thought was prudent to protect his family you moron! One bite to his wife or child is one bite too many! It's easy to judge someone for their actions when you can sit back and second guess his every move and response to what he perceived as a threat to his family. Someday when you have a family, you will understand. I have had the unpleasant opportunity to see first hand what a motivated dog can do to a full grown adult man, much less a small child. Pepper spray does not work on alot of people and dogs!! I know from first hand experience, and we use dogs in our line of work for a reason. They are very effective at taking up the slack when pepper spray fails!

Posted: 1/30/2002 7:09:05 PM EDT

[#18]

Also there is NOT ONE reported attack by a healthy wolf upon a human, they too, are afraid of us.

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What about attacks by non-healthy wolves? Unless the wolf has a note from his vet certifying he's in perfect health, I would consider any wolf encounter a dangerous situation. [;)]

It's hard to understand why a pack of wolves, which will kill a 1000+ pound moose, would be afraid of an animal that's five times smaller.

Posted: 1/30/2002 8:36:26 PM EDT

[#19]

Perfect A3. Your actions were prudent and responsible.

I had an uncomfortable incident recently. I am not afraid of dogs and, like most internet personalities, am 6'4" and 250 pounds. [;)] A couple of months ago, two dogs approached me, my wife, and our young children. The dogs started barking, baring teeth, etc. We were on private property owned by one of my relatives, and the dogs were preventing us from going to the house. I kind of yelled at the dogs and expected them to run away --- but they didn't. In fact, they became more aggressive. I reached for my Glock, but decided not to draw because they, while remaining aggressive, were not coming any closer. So I just stood there, between them and my family, and wished I had some pepper spray. Eventually the dogs' owner (a kid) retrieved the animals. The dogs acted in a manner I had never encountered before; they are usually terrible cowards. Dogs are unpredictable and dangerous. Now that I think back on it, I believe the dogs were confused about where the property line was.

I think carrying pepper spray is important, because it gives you another option in a situation like that. Perhaps I could have shot those dogs if their owner had not shown up, but I'd hate to shoot a kid's dog if there were other alternatives. It would have been nice to have a non-lethal option available.

Owning a dog is a big resposibility. You should not expect everyone your dog encounters to be an expert in dogs or to know how to fight off a dog. Some people are scared of dogs to the point of paralysis. You know how dogs react to that. I love dogs, but any dog off a leash that is aggressive is fair game.

I am heartened by the words of the responsible dog owners in this post.

BTW, the big disadvantage of me not drawing my Glock is that my wife still gives me $hit about carrying!

Posted: 1/30/2002 9:57:09 PM EDT

[#20]

I had a doberman charge at me one time while deer hunting. I thought he was going to attack me so I leveled my .30-06 on him. I like dogs and didn't really want to shoot if it was someone's pet. He stoped about 2 yards away from me and growled at me for about a minute. We had a short standoff, then he turned and ran. When I got home I called the dog warden and explained what happened. She told me not to take any chances with agressive roaming dogs in the woods, especially if they didn't have a collar as they may have Rabies.

Posted: 1/31/2002 4:50:50 AM EDT

[#21]

Thanks everybody, for your responses. The whole point of this topic was to let everybody know that Mrs. A3KID had finally learned what I've been unable to make her understand. I don't carry because I'm hoping for an opportunity to present a firearm. I carry in case I might need it, all the while hoping and praying that I never will.

For the first 23 years of my life I was exactly like Wolfpack, Major Murphy and some of the others here. There wasn't a dog that I couldn't intimidate or make friends with when I was approached. It all changed one day when a mature 50/50 wolf/shepard came after me in spite of all my postering and brave behavior. One of those 1% of the time incidents that people keep referring to. Yes, I did fight him off - and came out of it OK. (And from that day forward when I visited his owner, he came around me with his hat in his hand. [:D] ) My point is this: I was alone when it happened.
Having a wife and child with me, in my mind, called for a different response.

Another thing became really obvious to me during this discourse. Some people here placed some merit in fighting off an attacking stray dog and sparing it's life. Why? So it can repeat it's behavior again in the future, possibly against child? That makes no sense to me and it never will. If you're a dog owner, license your dog, put a collar on it, and keep it's shots up to date. Control it. If you're in an area where dogs are allowed to run off-leash, keep it in your sight. [b]You[/b] take responsibility for your dogs actions. If this particular dogs owner had done these things, this topic would never have been posted.

FreeFireZone: Thanks for the reminder on handloads for defense - I've never given that much thought.

Peace.

-kid

Posted: 1/31/2002 5:48:06 AM EDT

[#22]

A3,

To repeat: You handled that perfectly. Ready but restrained.

For those who would argue the finer points of taking on a dog, especially a large vicious pooch...I have a couple of pithy phrases:

Dogs, while domesticated, can and do become feral. When they do, your comments on facing them down, become moot.

Dogs are pack animals. If they pack up, they can and do become very dangerous. To them, more than one constitutes a pack.

Dogs are desendants of the wolf, a predator that just happens to be near the top of the food web. The larger dogs, such as the German shepard dog, the Rottweiler, the mastiff etc, retain many of the key physical traits that help the wolf stay at the top of the heap.

Large dogs have the capacity to do great harm to a human, especially a small one, a big hurry. Certain breeds can do incredible damage even cause death to people or other dogs quickly also. I witnessed a pit bull pup [playfully?] grab my equally young Golden's neck and hold it...quite easily until its owner and I pulled the jaws apart. Both the dogs were only about six months old and until that instant, both were just puppy-playing. My Golden was SHOCKED when that pit bull's jaws clamped down! We could see the look of fear in his eyes. I don't think the pit bull meant any harm...it was just doing what came naturally.

When I take a stroll with my wife and grandkids, I take my constant companion with me. Should a situation arise like that which happened to you, I would do likewise. IF a dog attacks...it is dead. I will try to scare it off, I have done so in the past. I will place myself between the pooch and my kids, but if it persists...it has forfeited its life. NO human life is worth a dog's. I'm not about to try and locate the dog's owner or follow it to see where it goes either, especially perhaps with wounded family. I'll call animal control after the battle is ended. I am going to deal with the threat now.

Every once in a while, I read about a "friendly" dog escaping its restraints and doing great harm to a child or other pets in its neighborhood. That just should never happen...especially when you learn later that the dog had a history of vicious behavior.

Pepper spray will not stop an angry, vicious mutt...a .40S&W will.

Posted: 1/31/2002 6:08:14 AM EDT

[#23]

[img]http://www.sporting-dog.com/photos/Neillson.jpg[/img]

Once he's on you, a dog like this won't come off, without a gun.

If my Pit jumps up and grabs onto a low tree limb, he'll hang on for a bit, and the drop off. If, however, while he's hanging, you playfully punch him in his big ole' head....
...his jaws will tighten, as his adrenaline flows, and the wood will splinter. He'll hang on forever. He will not tire.

People often say things like, "If a Pit Bull grabbed me, I'd gouge his eyes out, and he'd let go...".
Nonsense.
When more than 1,500 psi comes clamping down on your arm/leg/groin/hand, in a fraction of a second, you'll scream a scream you've never heard. You'll go into shock.
Luckily, 99% of a ll Pits are big sweethearts, like mine.

Posted: 1/31/2002 7:24:29 AM EDT

[#24]

He was justified to shoot. Period. I was not there and can not judge the mood. I was recently double teamed by a pair of neighborhood dogs (one of which has a history of chasing walkers, cars, childred etc.) and drew down and waited for it to cross my 'line in the sand'. The animal froze at 10-12 feet as my finger was building pressure on the trigger (double action revolver). The second dog stopped after the first did at a range of 20 feet. They had approached from opposite sides of the street at 45 degree angles. Had they not stopped at that magic moment I would have dropped the first, then the second and probably been invited to dinner by the neighbors who have been putting up with the little demons for years. A loose dog charging me is worth less than a pile of it's own crap to me. And by the way I don't think anyone said he should have shot the dog simply the option was justified given the circumstances using judgement that he seemed to possess. Planerench out.

Posted: 1/31/2002 7:46:34 AM EDT

[#25]

I had a German Shepherd come after me not long ago. Teeth bared, barking, full-bore dead run toward me. Having raised them myself, I gave the body language needed to calm it; it stopped & sniffed & went home. Turned out it was indeed a police dog, trained for combat, and no question could have ripped me up good.

During the approach (perceived as an attack), I decided that if it crossed a certain line I would indeed shoot it. Thankfully I didn't have to (friend's neighbor's dog).

Wolfpack is displaying a foolish attitude on this subject. Perhaps he is suffering from "familiarity breeds contempt" as he has had mostly harmless encounters. Such dogs have at least 20" of serrated "knives" up front, and the strength & natural talent to use them fast & effectively. Unfortunately, I don't have such built-in tools (perhaps Wolfpack does), nor such natural fighting skill, and I value my body much higher than I value an attacking dog, ergo preparing to shoot an attacking dog seems quite reasonable. I'd rather not, for I am fond of the critters, but should one lunge across the line I know that it can cause serious damage before I can stop it.

Good job, A3Kid. Wolfpack, you're losing your grip on the seriousness of the matter.

Posted: 1/31/2002 7:50:48 AM EDT

[#26]

Why does anyone put up with 'loose dogs' in their neighborhoods at all?

I mean, if you lived twenty miles out in the sticks, it would be one thing, but inside a subdivision?

Where are the leash laws?

And that goes for [b]CATS[/b] as well! They damn sure need to be on a leash![:D]

Eric The(PreferablyAFewFeetOffTheGround!)Hun[>]:)]

Posted: 1/31/2002 9:11:34 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
I had a German Shepherd come after me not long ago. Teeth bared, barking, full-bore dead run toward me. Having raised them myself, I gave the body language needed to calm it; it stopped & sniffed & went home. Turned out it was indeed a police dog, trained for combat, and no question could have ripped me up good.

During the approach (perceived as an attack), I decided that if it crossed a certain line I would indeed shoot it. Thankfully I didn't have to (friend's neighbor's dog).

Wolfpack is displaying a foolish attitude on this subject. Perhaps he is suffering from "familiarity breeds contempt" as he has had mostly harmless encounters. Such dogs have at least 20" of serrated "knives" up front, and the strength & natural talent to use them fast & effectively. Unfortunately, I don't have such built-in tools (perhaps Wolfpack does), nor such natural fighting skill, and I value my body much higher than I value an attacking dog, ergo preparing to shoot an attacking dog seems quite reasonable. I'd rather not, for I am fond of the critters, but should one lunge across the line I know that it can cause serious damage before I can stop it.

Good job, A3Kid. Wolfpack, you're losing your grip on the seriousness of the matter.

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How true...

Now imagine an encounter between those 20" of "knives" and a small child. Like I said...when we go for a stroll...my constant companion goes with us.

Truth be known...now my wife agrees with me. THAT is hard to believe...that she would EVER agree with me on anything...but in this case, she thinks that having that extra protection is just fine.

Posted: 1/31/2002 2:10:09 PM EDT

[#28]

Wolfpack, et al,

[b]Now do you understand?[/b]

What chance do you think this little boy had? I'll just bet that the owner[s] of the dogs will claim that they had never been vicious before...that they had never bitten anyone before...and that they were little darlings! (And you know what...he might be right. Until that encounter, it is possible that those pooches were trouble-free.)

Read on...it is sickening...but I think it makes my point more clearly than I could. [>(]
************************

[b]Pack of Dogs Kills Boy in Norway[/b]

The Associated Press
Thursday, January 31, 2002; 2:12 PM

OSLO, Norway –– A pack of dogs attacked and killed a 7-year-old boy Thursday near his home in the southeastern Norway village of Dokka, police said.

Between two and four dogs had bitten the boy, who was found dead in a ditch by a passer-by, Deputy sheriff Hans Felde said.

"He was the nearest neighbor to a dog owner, and the dogs got loose," Felde said by telephone. He said the dogs were rounded up and will be killed.

The boy, whose name was not released, was a second-grader at the Torpa Elementary School in Dokka, about 110 miles north of the capital, Oslo.

Felde said he was not sure what breed the dogs were. News reports said they were large sled dogs.

A 6-year-old boy was killed by his family's sled dog in 1994, but Thursday's attack was believed to be the first in Norway involving a pack of dogs, according to the Norwegian Kennel Club.

A witness saw two dogs standing over the boy's body and two other dogs nearby, said police spokesman Oystein Huseboe.

"Everything indicates that he was bitten to death," said Huseboe.

[pissed]

Posted: 1/31/2002 2:32:26 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Wolfpack, et al,

[b]Now do you understand?[/b]

What chance do you think this little boy had? I'll just bet that the owner[s] of the dogs will claim that they had never been vicious before...that they had never bitten anyone before...and that they were little darlings! (And you know what...he might be right. Until that encounter, it is possible that those pooches were trouble-free.)

Read on...it is sickening...but I think it makes my point more clearly than I could. [>(]
************************

[b]Pack of Dogs Kills Boy in Norway[/b]

The Associated Press
Thursday, January 31, 2002; 2:12 PM

OSLO, Norway –– A pack of dogs attacked and killed a 7-year-old boy Thursday near his home in the southeastern Norway village of Dokka, police said.

Between two and four dogs had bitten the boy, who was found dead in a ditch by a passer-by, Deputy sheriff Hans Felde said.

"He was the nearest neighbor to a dog owner, and the dogs got loose," Felde said by telephone. He said the dogs were rounded up and will be killed.

The boy, whose name was not released, was a second-grader at the Torpa Elementary School in Dokka, about 110 miles north of the capital, Oslo.

Felde said he was not sure what breed the dogs were. News reports said they were large sled dogs.

A 6-year-old boy was killed by his family's sled dog in 1994, but Thursday's attack was believed to be the first in Norway involving a pack of dogs, according to the Norwegian Kennel Club.

A witness saw two dogs standing over the boy's body and two other dogs nearby, said police spokesman Oystein Huseboe.

"Everything indicates that he was bitten to death," said Huseboe.

[pissed]

View Quote

READ what I wrote...I said if you are outnumbered then you have problems, a 7 year old versus 4 dogs is kinda unfair, I know that. My whole point is not to "save" the dogs life, if he is a POS dog I could care less if he lives or dies. What I'm getting at is if a few people pull out their guns and kill a few "Lassies" as the media would report it, then EVERYONE'S CCW is in danger, do you need to give the left anymore of a reason to go to bat with revoking CCW'S? The situation in this case would be reported as "Family dog killed by gunman as owner looks on in horror" it would go on to report how the dog never bit anyone and a CCW holder was way to hasty to draw and kill him. I may be wrong by not being afraid of any dogs, even that "scary"[rolleyes] black pitbull, but that is just the way some think I guess, I think a few incidents of CCW holders blowing away dogs and the such will put us all in a world of hurt. One of the best statistics here in Nevada is that not one CCW holder has ever killed anyone in self defense, how can the left argue that we are a bunch of gun toting lunatics with a stat like that, now someday a CCW holder here in Nevada will kill some POS and even though the POS was high and had a knife and had made suicidal comments and all that crap, the left will portray him as a "Good father who just recently lost his job and was looking to do better for his family"...don't pull unless you are in "SERIOUS" bodily harm, and a dog bite from a 60 pound German Shepard does not count as that now does it. A3 we all have different opinions, I am not saying your a bad guy, I just don't wanna see CCW'S go bye bye.

Posted: 1/31/2002 3:01:52 PM EDT

[#30]

The liberal media notwithstanding, I don't fear the loss of my concealed carry permit nearly as much as I do an attack by a dog on my little ones.

At least here in Virginia anyway...should a few dogs get iced by citizens defending themselves or another person, I doubt very seriously if that story would have much in the way of legs...even in The Washington Post, our most liberal rag. Our concealed carry law is far too strong to be broken by something so inconsequential as the death of a vicious dog.

WRT four dogs and one kid...even one dog against a seven year old is long odds for the child.

Finally, I really don't understand your statement that, a "dog bite from a 60 pound (Must be a young puppy.) German shepard," can not be construed as a threat to a person's life!

Regardless, you keep on living your life as you see fit. I will do likewise. I will continue to carry on my walks. I will protect my family and other persons from any dog that attacks us. I will shoot to kill any dog that attacks a person; quickly and without remorse. And understand this...I do love pooches. We had a Golden Retriever for 15 years. Losing him was devastating for us. Losing a child would be far worse.

Posted: 1/31/2002 6:05:29 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
He was justified to shoot. Period.

View Quote

Wrong.

Dog comes down a trail, showing nothing more than raised back hair?

Anyone who would start shooting in such a situation is an irresponsible, panicky little girl.

As this situation was described, it seems to have turned out perfectly.
A3kid showed the appropriate amount of caution, and all was well.
Some of you,however, think that the right thing to do would have been to shoot.
Those of you who feel this way are idiots.
Period.

Posted: 1/31/2002 7:08:03 PM EDT

[#32]

For some reason although wolves are not dangerous (to people), dogs and dog/wolf mixes are. I love my dogs. My dogs are not aggressive, and in the rural area where I live they run free. My neighbors have no complaints. They let their dogs run free too. As a proud member of the species that turned the wolf into the dog, I believe that dogs are subservient to men. No dog should be threatening to a human, unless well trained enough to be under the control of another human, like a police or military K-9 handler. No dogs life is valuable enough for me too be intimidated. I'll do my part and draw a reasonable line in the sand, and it damn well better do its part and walk the other way. Period.

Posted: 1/31/2002 8:16:19 PM EDT

[#33]

a3kid,
If I might change the tone a little bit, my wife's "come to Jesus" moment came 5-6 years ago when we were dating. We had left an evening ice skating show in Birmingham early to get her to work. While going to my car, a stranger crossed our path, saw us and came toward us. Just when he got to my "SHTF" distance, this guy (my size- 6'2"ish, 250+lb) puts his right hand into the hand warmer pocket on his sweatshirt. I go for the .380 (I brought Baby because of her small size) at the small of my back and (unknown to me) my now-wife drops her hand into her purse to get her friend (a .38 birthday gift from me). Nothing is ever brought into the open because Bubba brings his hand out with a business card for some panhandling (supposedly). We disengage and carefully exit the area. After that, the (now)Boss stops saying I'm paranoid (at least, as often as before).

Posted: 1/31/2002 9:44:15 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
You shouldn't even of pulled your gun, you should have had a can of 2 millions scoville pepper spray on you. A dog isn't THAT big of threat, unless he outweighs you. If you face and yell at 99% of dogs they will not attack. Remember you have arms and legs and the dog knows that, a kick is all it usually takes for those dogs not scared off by you yelling at them. I always carry pepper spray when I walk my dog, just in case there are 2 or more strays like pits or rotts, one dog can't do anything. My Akita was attacked by a Fila Brasario at a dog park and was outweighed by about 60 pounds, the Fila was about 150, which is about my weight, I pulled him off and beat the crap out of him before he ran away. I got my Akita for just such a situation, my mutt and I used to get jumped constantly by strays, now with 2 dogs it is no longer a problem, the strays see they are outnumbered before they even think about coming over. For those of you who will say pepper spray doesn't work on 100% of dogs, you are correct. Some dogs don't understand that it is you that has sprayed it and will continue with the attack, BUT they are blinded, so how much of a threat is that? If the dog were to keep attacking with pepper in his eyes then I would spray for the mouth and if that didn't do it I would spray him in the butt and genitals. In conclusion I would save the gun for a human that poses a threat, dogs aren't that big of deal, UNLESS the dog outweighs you.

View Quote

If i knew how to post pics I would show you MY
pooch.She's a champion breed Doberman Pincher
weighing in at 70to 80lbs.She WILL KILL YOU!!
Make no mistake!Dogs are bad mf'ers!I'll let you "fight" my dog unarmed if you want to(you'll have to sign a wavier before you die though).LOL!I PROMISE she's WAY more than you
THINK you can handle.Oh yeah,go ahead and gouge out her eyes;ONLY...if you have time.She'll
trade you her eyes ...for your life...AND your
balls

Posted: 2/4/2002 10:18:18 PM EDT

[#35]

If i knew how to post pics I would show you MY
pooch.She's a champion breed Doberman Pincher
weighing in at 70to 80lbs.She WILL KILL YOU!!
Make no mistake!Dogs are bad mf'ers!I'll let you "fight" my dog unarmed if you want to(you'll have to sign a wavier before you die though).LOL!I PROMISE she's WAY more than you
THINK you can handle.Oh yeah,go ahead and gouge out her eyes;ONLY...if you have time.She'll
trade you her eyes ...for your life...AND your
balls

View Quote

I'd throw your dog (that was only popular in the 70's) into traffic, dobermans are weak [rolleyes]

Posted: 2/5/2002 3:50:26 AM EDT

[#36]

Wolfpack,
I wish there was some way that I could get it through your head that you are blowing my actions entirely out of proportion. I didn't present the firearm. All I did was remove it from the holster and hold it behind my back [b]in case[/b] I needed it.

Since you don't seem to have the reading comprehension skills to understand that all the things you're concerned about didn't happen, I'm giving up on you. I will add one thing though, someday if God blesses you with your own child (it's obvious you don't have any because you've sidestepped my question several times) you're outlook on life will change drastically, especially in situations where you feel your child may be in danger. You won't understand this until you've got your own.

P.S. - Thanks for "not saying I'm a bad guy." In future discussions, as you get to know me more you'll find out I ain't.

Major Murphy: I concur wholeheartedly with your opinion that blowing the dog away as it ran down the trail would be dead wrong. That's trigger-happy - and that I'm not. Cautious? Yes.

-peace

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The wife understands why I CCW after Saturday.... (Page 2 of 2)

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