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Posted: 11/4/2009 4:22:50 PM EDT
[#1]
As someone who has had to swim out of a sinking car before I can tell you first hand how difficult a simple thing can be. You become completely disoriented, you forget where things are, how they work and what you should do. Auto glass is very hard to break with a blunt object, you need something sharp to get it to shatter. Very sad story but not surprised that they died.
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Posted: 11/4/2009 4:28:23 PM EDT
[#2]
This is reminiscent of the Stuck accelerator Lexus incident a while back. People have substituted common sense and problem solving ability for cell phones and 911.
If our ancestors had possessed cell phones and 911, the human race would have ended by way of Saber Toothed Tigers and Woolly Mammoths. |
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Posted: 11/4/2009 4:29:56 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
As someone who has had to swim out of a sinking car before I can tell you first hand how difficult a simple thing can be. You become completely disoriented, you forget where things are, how they work and what you should do. Auto glass is very hard to break with a blunt object, you need something sharp to get it to shatter. Very sad story but not surprised that they died. Details please, if you don't mind. I'm sure what you have to say would very instructional. |
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Posted: 11/4/2009 4:33:57 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
There is a lot of missing info. Also, how many young girls drive to the middle of nowhere just to "star gaze"? Is star gazing another term for drinking and smoking up? Drinking yes, but probably popping pills. |
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Posted: 11/4/2009 4:38:30 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Link for window punch? Looked buy havent been able to find one that looked sturdy. ResQMe Window Punch & Seat Belt Cutter I have two of these they are designed with a seat belt cutter and a window punch in the same unit. |
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Posted: 11/4/2009 5:39:02 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:
As someone who has had to swim out of a sinking car before I can tell you first hand how difficult a simple thing can be. You become completely disoriented, you forget where things are, how they work and what you should do. Auto glass is very hard to break with a blunt object, you need something sharp to get it to shatter. Very sad story but not surprised that they died. Details please, if you don't mind. I'm sure what you have to say would very instructional. We were avoiding deer that were walking down our lane in a tight canyon when the car started sliding on all the gravel that accumulated from winter. We fishtailed 3 or 4 times, eventually went off the side of the road. We impacted the embankment and the car slowly rolled over onto its top. The car started filling with water when I immediately yelled at my friend to get his belt off. I tried finding the inside door handle and couldent. I then reached my out of my half open window and found the outside door handle and got my door open. Swam to the side of the river. I realized looking back the the car was only 3/4 submerged. The whole situation could have been 10x worse. The car could have gotten caught up in the current as the water was high from runoff. My window could have been closed. Car could have completely sank. When its dark out and your underwater you cannot hear or see a thing, you have to go by touch. This sends you into a serious panic. The situation these girls were facing was no doubt worse as they were completely submerged. You cant say that if they had this or that they would have survived. There are so many unforeseen factors in a situation like this. |
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Posted: 11/4/2009 5:47:32 PM EDT
[#7]
remember to hit edges of the glass to break, the window will flex in the middle, glass easier to shatter close to edge. |
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Posted: 11/4/2009 5:50:30 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
There is a lot of missing info. Also, how many young girls drive to the middle of nowhere just to "star gaze"? Is star gazing another term for drinking and smoking up? Females of this age are for the most part retarded and still need adult supervsion. ETA, males are just as bad. Lesbian camping trip. |
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Posted: 11/4/2009 5:50:41 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
As someone who has had to swim out of a sinking car before I can tell you first hand how difficult a simple thing can be. You become completely disoriented, you forget where things are, how they work and what you should do. Auto glass is very hard to break with a blunt object, you need something sharp to get it to shatter. Very sad story but not surprised that they died. Details please, if you don't mind. I'm sure what you have to say would very instructional. We were avoiding deer that were walking down our lane in a tight canyon when the car started sliding on all the gravel that accumulated from winter. We fishtailed 3 or 4 times, eventually went off the side of the road. We impacted the embankment and the car slowly rolled over onto its top. The car started filling with water when I immediately yelled at my friend to get his belt off. I tried finding the inside door handle and couldent. I then reached my out of my half open window and found the outside door handle and got my door open. Swam to the side of the river. I realized looking back the the car was only 3/4 submerged. The whole situation could have been 10x worse. The car could have gotten caught up in the current as the water was high from runoff. My window could have been closed. Car could have completely sank. When its dark out and your underwater you cannot hear or see a thing, you have to go by touch. This sends you into a serious panic. The situation these girls were facing was no doubt worse as they were completely submerged. You cant say that if they had this or that they would have survived. There are so many unforeseen factors in a situation like this. Thanks. Upside down in a rolled car, at night, and with a car filling up with water, would certainly be disorienting and I'm sure could make the best of us go into a panic mode. |
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Posted: 11/4/2009 5:55:28 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Link for window punch? Looked buy havent been able to find one that looked sturdy. Go to MSCdirect.com Search for Automatic center punch. Buy the large Starret. That'll break a car window. And its quality made Starret ETA: Its easy to Monday morning quarter back. These girls didn't know what to do. Maybe they did and didn't have the presence of mind to do it. We'll never know. I know what to do in this situation, it doesn't mean I'll do it. |
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Posted: 11/4/2009 6:00:57 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: Breathe from pocket of air until the car totally filled up. Hold breath. Wait for equalization of pressure between outside and inside car. Open door. Swim to surface = live Make panicked cell phone calls for help= die Yep, unfortunately most people don't know that. |
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Posted: 11/4/2009 6:10:41 PM EDT
[#12]
I keep a combo rescue tool clipped to the visor in all the vehicles.
Problem is, having pulled more than my share of bodies out of vehicles, disorientation and panic occurs, and the majority were found in the back seat, probably trying to get out going up. 
Sad. |
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Posted: 11/4/2009 6:14:10 PM EDT
[#13]
Where does this 911 save me mentality seriously come from.
Only seconds count. They are minutes away. |
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Posted: 11/4/2009 6:14:36 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
If you are going to keep something in your car to break the window do not keep it in the glovebox. Attach it to the steering column, or somewhere you can reach it while hanging in the drivers seat with your seat belt locked in place. Agreed , I see them in peoples cars all the time laying around. (Im a mechanic). If there car flips over that thing will end up no where to be found! |
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Posted: 11/4/2009 6:15:43 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
There is a lot of missing info. Also, how many young girls drive to the middle of nowhere just to "star gaze"? Is star gazing another term for drinking and smoking up? Nope. They were on the girl's softball team. Star gazing means they were munching on something, or at least making their fingers stinky. affirmative |
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Posted: 11/4/2009 6:17:31 PM EDT
[#16]
Most people die when their vehicle is submerged. If an Arfcom vehicle is submerged, every one inside, including the Arfcommer will probably die.
All the Billy Badass can continue on how they would handle the situation. Have another drink Arfcom. |
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Posted: 11/4/2009 6:17:46 PM EDT
[#17]
Top Gear tested the car-in-water thing. By the time the pressure equalized by dropping the car in a swimming pool, a minute+ had already elapsed. The guy in the car couldn't open the door for that whole time. Dunno about you, but even if I had practiced holding my breath for that long...I probably couldn't do it in a situation like that, with all that stress.
However, if he opened the door within 5 or so seconds of hitting the water, it let in more water BUT he was able to escape. The car sunk faster, but who cares if you're no longer in it. Moral of the story: none of this "Wait for the pressure to equalize and breathe an air pocket" stuff. Open the door, escape ASAP. If you don't, you never will. That is, if you're prepared for it and have your wits about you...I'd imagine something like this would be out of the blue and you wouldn't be ready to act on it 
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Posted: 11/4/2009 6:24:24 PM EDT
[#18]
What i am wondering will a cell phone work under a couple feet of water? Did they call while sinking or after they were sunk?
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Posted: 11/4/2009 6:32:14 PM EDT
[#19]
Mythbusters
The pressure is too great for the windows to open, you have to break them |
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Posted: 11/4/2009 6:33:24 PM EDT
[#20]
Having done at least 30 trips in the Navy's water survival school helo dunker I can tell you that upside down, underwater, in the dark is not a fun place to be.
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Posted: 11/4/2009 6:33:31 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Electric windows work when wet. Panic is what really killed them. This. Once the car fills up, you can just open the door and get out. |
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Posted: 11/4/2009 6:34:16 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Top Gear tested the car-in-water thing. By the time the pressure equalized by dropping the car in a swimming pool, a minute+ had already elapsed. The guy in the car couldn't open the door for that whole time. Dunno about you, but even if I had practiced holding my breath for that long...I probably couldn't do it in a situation like that, with all that stress. However, if he opened the door within 5 or so seconds of hitting the water, it let in more water BUT he was able to escape. The car sunk faster, but who cares if you're no longer in it. Moral of the story: none of this "Wait for the pressure to equalize and breathe an air pocket" stuff. Open the door, escape ASAP. If you don't, you never will. That is, if you're prepared for it and have your wits about you...I'd imagine something like this would be out of the blue and you wouldn't be ready to act on it You may be thinking of Mythbusters. It took a LOT of time for the pressure to equalize even after the car was submerged. Holding your breath would be iffy. While the power windows worked underwater, they did not have enough power to roll the window down under outside pressure. They also, IIRC, broke the manual window crank. The only way to be able to survive relaibly was to get a door open or a window open within seconds of the car going into the water. |
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Posted: 11/4/2009 6:40:30 PM EDT
[#23]
I think it would be very scary, maybe the nose was down, its dark because its night, maybe your strapped in, no one wants to let the water in, maybe the child locks were on in the back so your still stuck, still cant open doors until the water gets to high, have to hold down your friend underwater to suck last breath of air, scary.
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Posted: 11/4/2009 6:43:33 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: Quoted: Top Gear tested the car-in-water thing. By the time the pressure equalized by dropping the car in a swimming pool, a minute+ had already elapsed. The guy in the car couldn't open the door for that whole time. Dunno about you, but even if I had practiced holding my breath for that long...I probably couldn't do it in a situation like that, with all that stress. However, if he opened the door within 5 or so seconds of hitting the water, it let in more water BUT he was able to escape. The car sunk faster, but who cares if you're no longer in it. Moral of the story: none of this "Wait for the pressure to equalize and breathe an air pocket" stuff. Open the door, escape ASAP. If you don't, you never will. That is, if you're prepared for it and have your wits about you...I'd imagine something like this would be out of the blue and you wouldn't be ready to act on it You may be thinking of Mythbusters. It took a LOT of time for the pressure to equalize even after the car was submerged. Holding your breath would be iffy. While the power windows worked underwater, they did not have enough power to roll the window down under outside pressure. They also, IIRC, broke the manual window crank. The only way to be able to survive relaibly was to get a door open or a window open within seconds of the car going into the water. Top Gear did it too. And more realistically, if I remember right, they dropped the car into the water instead of lowering it in. The whole 'wait for equalization' stuff = dead. |
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Posted: 11/4/2009 6:46:21 PM EDT
[#25]
20 years ago or so, I was riding with a friend in his Datsun coming home from a lake party. Both of us messed up on booze + drugs.
I was sleeping in the passenger seat, the driver missed a turn, hit a railroad tie at the corner, and launched the car into the lake. As soon as we hit, I was awake and remember hitting the water. We had to be at least 30 feet from shore. Car starts to sink. I can't remember who, but one of us yelled SWIM FOR YOUR LIFE. The car had manual window cranks. We both rolled down the window, got out of the car and swam to shore. I didn't even get my hair wet. He lost a shoe getting out. We had to help push the car that was following us home back up to the road. We took off and never looked back. Houses next to the scene were lit up big time. Got home, slept off the buzz, cops showed up and ask my buddy if he wanted his car back. They had it towed out of the lake. He took it and he had a roach clip on his key chain that the cops had marked and told him if the had found any dope, they would have hauled him away. I'll never forget it, and I haven't seen the dude in about 17 years. Live and learn. |
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Posted: 11/4/2009 6:58:49 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Electric windows work when wet. Panic is what really killed them. Not if they are controlled by a computer \ logic module that got wet. I agree panic set in and they went into no thought mode.
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Posted: 11/4/2009 7:09:31 PM EDT
[#27]
sad, scary situation for sure. being that i'm the worlds worst swimmer, i doubt i would have lived even if i had found a way out.
i can imagine being the parents who got the phone call...
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Posted: 11/4/2009 7:13:28 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Watch the Mythbusters episode where they test this assumption. I've seen multiple videos of car windows opening underwater for from a minute to several minutes after being totally submerged. mythbusters, show with joe grogan, FX special on fox etc... lots of them. something else got them, panic or not knowing to try or being stoned or they were unconscious. edited to add, on the shows they either rolled windows down as car was filling, or after it was filled and pressure equalized. I decided if I ever go in the water I'm rolling the window down immediately, or will shoot them out as soon as everyone is unbuckled and positioned to exit if I am carrying. |
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Posted: 11/4/2009 7:24:32 PM EDT
[#29]
I keep a center punch in the car. I should have it secured better so I can find it easily.
Will this break a window if already submerged? I don't want to find out the hard way! 
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Posted: 11/4/2009 7:26:57 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
If their car had manual windows, do you think they would still be alive? Based on my assumption that they had power windows and could not open them under water. Link if you don't know the story. No - the water pressure binds the window to the frame - the motor works just fine underwater it like the handle, lacks the torque to overcome the water pressure - MythBusters about two or three years ago did this. |
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Posted: 11/4/2009 7:29:25 PM EDT
[#31]
You would think that they would have had at least one softball bat in the car that they could have used to break a window.
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Posted: 11/4/2009 7:31:33 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Electric windows work when wet. Panic is what really killed them. +1 Even if they could not open the windows, wait until the car is filed with enough water to equalize the pressure and open a door. a lot of modern cars autolock the doors when driving. Any chance that such a device would malfunction when submerged? |
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Posted: 11/4/2009 7:33:44 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Given that they decided to call a friend instead of 911 I would say panic had set in. (Not that calling 911 would necessarily have saved them but would have been the more appropriate action to take) prob would have 911 knows what to do. |
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Posted: 11/4/2009 7:34:07 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
There is more to this story that has yet to be found. There are too many questions left, and I can't believe that it is as simple as getting lost and driving into a pond. Things just don't add up. This, x10. |
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Posted: 11/4/2009 7:35:58 PM EDT
[#35]
I'm still trying to figure this one out. 1 of 3 people could not exit the vehicle???? That is awfully suspicious to me.
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Posted: 11/4/2009 7:40:52 PM EDT
[#36]
Story in the local paper said there was a dog of one of the girls in the Jeep that drowned too. The whole story is horrible and sad.
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Posted: 11/4/2009 7:45:00 PM EDT
[#37]
Here's a link to the story and there is video of the story that was on the news tonight.
Story and Video Looks to be a stock dam out in the middle of a pasture. My guess is that they were cruisin down the trail and didn't know the stock dam was there. Typically, if you're not going real fast, you're going to get stuck close to the edge of those things. |
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Posted: 11/4/2009 7:46:54 PM EDT
[#38]
I don't get it.
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Posted: 11/4/2009 8:07:41 PM EDT
[#39]
Window Schmindow.
When the car gets deep enough you just open the door. |
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Posted: 11/5/2009 1:21:33 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Window Schmindow. When the car gets deep enough you just open the door. 
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Posted: 11/5/2009 1:26:23 AM EDT
[#41]
I has a window punch!
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Posted: 11/5/2009 1:27:37 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:
There is a lot of missing info. Also, how many young girls drive to the middle of nowhere just to "star gaze"? Is star gazing another term for drinking and smoking up? Nope. They were on the girl's softball team. Star gazing means they were munching on something, or at least making their fingers stinky. Why would you drive out into the middle of nowhere to eat BBQ ribs? |
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Posted: 11/5/2009 1:34:06 AM EDT
[#43]
If you can make a phone call, you're not underwater far enough to prevent the car doors from opening...
And the windows would work, underwater or no... Panic did them in... |
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Posted: 11/5/2009 1:37:34 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
If you can make a phone call, you're not underwater far enough to prevent the car doors from opening... And the windows would work, underwater or no... Panic did them in... It will take longer for the car to fill than it will take it to sink. So the outside could have been almost entirely submerged while there is still a pretty large air pocket inside the car. |
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Posted: 11/5/2009 1:40:23 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: I keep a center punch in the car. I should have it secured better so I can find it easily. http://www.generaltools.com/Images/machinist/77L.jpg Will this break a window if already submerged? I don't want to find out the hard way! I've seen car glass (rear windows on an Astro) that shattered simply by too much pressure... And I've seen car glass (windshield) that takes a 4x4 & just spider-webs.... All depends... I do know they sell escape-hammers that are based on a center-punch type mechanism, for the purpose of breaking windshields on cars to get out.... |
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Posted: 11/5/2009 1:47:39 AM EDT
[#46]
The Victorinox Swiss Army Rescue Tool is well-designed and multi-function. It has a punch, seat belt cutter and glows in the dark.
It also has a large serrated locking blade that could be useful. |
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Posted: 11/5/2009 2:23:32 AM EDT
[#47]
I always have my trusty Surefire pen with the glass breaker top. That would be a start. I'm not inclined to discharge a .45ACP +P in a sealed vehicle! Anyone who thinks he might shoot his way out might want to keep hearing and eye protection in the cab.
http://www.surefire.com/The-SureFire-Pen My guess is that the girls were driving with their headlights off to save their night vision for stargazing, hit the water, and, like 90% of kids these days had absolutely no training for anything, no mental preparation, no tools. |
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Posted: 11/5/2009 2:30:33 AM EDT
[#48]
Wait for pressure to equalize and then open the door. You don't need to watch Mythbusters to understand this.
Making a cell phone call... a fucking PHONE CALL, is so stupid that I'm almost glad they... Nevermind. Not even going to go there. - BG |
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Posted: 11/5/2009 2:33:01 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Most people die when their vehicle is submerged. If an Arfcom vehicle is submerged, every one inside, including the Arfcommer will probably die. All the Billy Badass can continue on how they would handle the situation. Have another drink Arfcom. A lot of folks I know have a glass-breaker of some sort... which at least demonstrates an understanding up the science involved. I can guarantee you none on this site would be making a fucking phone call. - BG |
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Posted: 11/5/2009 2:35:00 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
I always have my trusty Surefire pen with the glass breaker top. That would be a start. I'm not inclined to discharge a .45ACP +P in a sealed vehicle! Anyone who thinks he might shoot his way out might want to keep hearing and eye protection in the cab. http://www.surefire.com/surefire/content/Pen_full2.jpg http://www.surefire.com/The-SureFire-Pen My guess is that the girls were driving with their headlights off to save their night vision for stargazing, hit the water, and, like 90% of kids these days had absolutely no training for anything, no mental preparation, no tools. Heh... I'll deal with the hearing loss if that's what it takes. I suppose slamming your ear against the headrest and plugging the other one, a movement that would take all of 1 second, might work? I don't know... all the planning in the world isn't going to guarantee you anything. - BG (ugh, 3 responses in under 5 minutes... I need to find a new thread...) |
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