If I wanted to defeat Islam, I would foment and support a violent revolution amongst them that targetted members of their own religion, incited war against neutral countries and the world, committed obscenely vicious terrorist acts, and killed people in increasingly brutal and sensational ways. Thus, one of two things would happen - either the peaceful side of the religion would rise up and defeat the radical side, or the world would rise against the entire group.

Hey... wait a second.

So the West needs to promote ideological subversion through what means?  Could this be done simultaneously while eliminating terrorist groups?  How would you stop the crackdown from entities like the Saudi government or Ayatollahs of Iran?

Nope.  Not at all.

Then what is the solution or activity to stop it other than "No."

The idea that the "reformation" involved anything akin to modern "reform" is laughable.

What we are up against is a reformation. The reformation tore western Europe apart in fits of irrational zealotry in the same way Islamic fundamentalism is tearing apart much of the world.

It would be difficult to find any religion where that could not be the case, especially in various points of its history if not today.

break their faith in their god.

the mongolians came pretty damn close.


but no....in the 21st century, the american people have "morales"

The way the left/reds did it, infiltrate every school and mosque, preferably anything with teaching kids. Change/distort history and culture, rewrite text books etc. adapt a type of cultural marxism (political correctness) to coerce people into the new ideology or out of islam. Rinse and repeat with every new generation of kids.


This can be done simultaneously while eliminating terrorist groups. Look at the Vietnam war where the reds were ideologically subverting the U.S population while killing our guys across the globe.

The Saudi government would be the main issue, they also would be the best ones to implement ideological subversion because of their built up infrastructure of mosques/imams across the globe, which also means they would be the main people that will cause problems for the plan. The Saudi Wahhabi are just as bad as isis.

LOL, sex with a goat would just encourage them to use more Khat, nothing more.

Saudi Wahabbism is the gateway drug to 99% of Islamic terrorism. Getting them to accept that fact is a challenge. The whole society is run by a guilt that would make the Jewish and Catholic grandmothers of the world stand in awe.

We're well past 30 years already.

There is no way our Nation will ever have the stones to do it, but you could defeat the same way we beat every other threat.

1. Address it as an Ideology.  

2.  Destroy it, by attacking the center of that ideology.  

They believe that Allah is all powerful.   We have to show that he isn't.

We have to defeat the Idea.


For example, we could invent a "Wrathful Jesus" character.     He does a bunch of miracles and gets a lot of worldwide press attention.    You make him seem reputable.  

He then calls a big press conference, where he states that the Muslims, through their corruption and brutality, have angered God himself.    Therefore, He will be destroying Mecca at precisely 0600.

At the appointed time, Fire and Brimstone rains down on all wretched sinners.  

Then, Angry Jesus states that all Muslims will now embrace the tenets of His New Koran, or other notable cities will fall one by one.     Old testament stuff; Plague, Pestilence, etc.

Russia, China and Europe say nothing, because they are in on it.  

Interesting.

Social media infiltration into those countries subliminally showing the inconsistencies of their faith.

Accident in Mecca destroying the Kabaa.

Campaigns showing impropriety amongst religious leaders.

Stigmatizing the brutal beliefs.

Instigating conflict by promoting their blasphemy like showing images of Muhammad.

Over my military career, I did several stints in Islamic countries and I am not sorry to say, it is a political movement wrapped in the cloak of a religion, I don't consider it anything more the Nazi's, Communists or any other group that has tried to take the world over Pol Pot did it, Stalin did it, Hitler did it, Mussolini did it.  Hell even England and Spain did it, until we get over the idea we are fighting a religion and come to the realization we are fighting a world domination political domination fight, we are going to continue to have this happen, Those in charge of this movement are very smart, they have been putting out the "Islamic" propaganda for decades now.  This is another pure political ideas war going on just as WWI, WWII, etc.

Folks we are in the middle of the third world war, whether any of the worlds political leaders want to admit it or not.  The tactics may have changed, but the goal is the same.

Really? What guilt?

Like any other religious cult.

Exactly.  You can't separate Islam the religion from Islam the political system from Islam the legal system.

It is wholly incompatible with Western civilization.

Crusades- run them out, town by town razing their sacred sites, burning their homes, force them to convert or die. Pretty much what they are doing but in reverse. But with bacon....and A-10s....and and, well you get the idea.

We dont have enough FBI and Janet Reno still alive?

Have you ever met a Saudi that wasn't more into porn and alcohol than anyoner else you've ever known?

Wow. So true. Lol

Then how do you frame this to political leaders and public? Most of the liberal population is in PC denial while the right is caught up in defense politically.

Fill in the blank:

Indiana Jones and the Last __________

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

With a holy hand grenade, of course.

Except where it has.

A reasonable person might ask himself, "where have cultures managed to separate Islam the religion from Islam the political system? What social/cultural/political forces contributed to this? What can we learn from this?"

Instead, we always get the usual "oh, those Albanians/Turks/Iranians/Azeris/Kyrgyz/Indoesians/Malaysians don't count. They aren't "real Muslims." At least, not until they start to agree with the lack of separation and go join ISIS or some other violent Jihad, in which case we won't view this as a movement away from how the things have normally been, but simply a return to type after however many years.

Have not quite figure that one out yet, I know I have been saying this every since I came back from the middle east the last time and spent the rest of my service in the Pentagon and the Beltway.  Not many wanted to listen, but some did, and I see it come up every once in a while.  We are going to have to change our thinking or we are going to have a bigger and bigger fight on our hands, in its little way, the war fare has already started here in America, Has already stated in England, Belgium, France, it will continue to grow, until the western leaders open their eyes to what is really going on.  The biggest wars ever fought in history have been over Political ideology.  

This is actually a much better description of Islam than simple religion.

Islam had ALWAYS been more of a political system than a religion.or a political system wrapped in religion.

This is why it's fucking retarded leftists love them.  Leftists LOVE to scream about the separation of church and state.in Islam, there IS no separation between church and state.

Actually, ISIS is the full realization of sharia, or the full integration if their church and state.

Something the fing leftists seem to hate when it's Christianity

Nope.  Or an Iranian, or a Kuwaiti, or any other repressed Middle Easterner for that matter.  Once they're outside the ME, they're reprobates.

ask japan we hit them hard

You try to appease them, not try to trigger them by using words like "radical Islam", NEVER call them out on their bigotry, and then blame white Christians for it all

????

PROFIT

I've been warned for opining about my solution. I sincerely hope someone has one better than I did

Ask Japan.

The idea of separation of church and state sprang from the Enlightenment, which might as well have been yesterday as far as world history is concerned.

It sure as heck did not spring from the reformation, as others seem to be suggesting. Such ideas were also not limited to Christian societies, either. Attaturk was a more famous example of proponent of the ideology within an Islamic context.

In short, it's just like any other war - you need to make it so costly & so abhorrent to them that they surrender.
That means all targets are on the table, all weapons are on the table, & you keep destroying everything they value until they have lost the will to fight.
You kill their families, you take their land, & you destroy their holy sites until they have nothing left...

We fought against a religion in the second world war with Japan. If you kill enough of them they will start to see their god is not on their side.

Genocide is always an option, though with a threat this large I think it's more trouble than it's worth.

One could seize all oil producing regions and direct the profits back to the US alone, under the guise of securing these places from terrorists and possible environmental disasters. Eventually this would starve them out, thus removing Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc as leaders of Islam, moving the power structure to more westernized nations.

One could quite easily build quite powerful radio and television stations in our middle east bases, playing anime and porn 24/7. Some of the religious would make a rallying call to shut the stations down, but the rank and file would be too busy fapping with their waifu pillows to bother. Plus we could sell ads on the station, easily paying for our entire middle east presence.

Just because terrorist organization calls itself a religion ...doesn't make it so

The West can't handle reality and what it takes to win a war.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-co-muslim-school-holidays-20160616-story.html

Baltimore County schools to consider closing on Muslim holidays

Dr. Bash Pharoan has advocated for 12 years for Baltimore County Public Schools to designate some Muslim holy days as school holidays when schools would be closed.

Will Baltimore County add Muslim holidays to school calendar?

After more than a decade of advocacy by the Muslim community, the Baltimore County school board appears poised to vote on whether to designate two Muslim holy days as school holidays.

A school board subcommittee is recommending the move, which has also been considered by other school systems around the state. The full board is expected to vote next month on the proposed policy that would close schools.

If the policy passes, the school system would be the first in Maryland to close on the two most important Islamic holidays, Eid al-Adha and Eid al-Fitr, when they fall on school days.

The vote will come after a 12-year effort by Dr. Bash Pharoan, a Muslim physician whose children attended county schools. He has spoken at nearly every meeting, requesting parity with Christian and Jewish students who get some of their religious holidays off.

The school board firmly denied his request just two years ago and said there were not enough Muslim students to warrant it. That sentiment seemed to shift this week when the school board's policy review committee chairwoman, Romaine Williams, said her committee will be recommending the full board take action in July.

Muslim community pushes to close schools on two holy days

"I believe it will pass," said Pharoan, who was asked to speak with the policy review committee several weeks ago.

Charles McDaniels Jr., chairman of the school board, would not speculate on whether the policy has enough support to pass. He said he wants to hear the committee's arguments in favor of the closings before he decides how to vote. To pass, the policy would need support from seven of the board's 12 members.

Two other Maryland school systems have been inching toward recognition of Muslim holidays. In the past year, Montgomery and Howard counties decided to move their professional development days for teachers to Eid al-Adha, the Muslim holiday that changes every year based on the lunar calendar.

Baltimore County's school board took a similar step in the past year and designated the holiday as a teacher training day. Baltimore County public school students will have Eid al-Adha off on Sept. 12 as result. New York City has also recently begun closing schools for the Muslim holy days.

Muslim parents who have advocated for the school closures over the years have argued they were in the untenable position of having to choose between allowing their children to observe important religious and cultural holidays and having them keep up with their classes.

Maryland's laws and regulations designate which holidays school systems must observe. Those holidays include Christmas, Thanksgiving and Easter Friday. Local school systems are permitted to decide whether to close for Jewish holidays based on projected absenteeism. While Baltimore, Anne Arundel, Howard, Carroll and Harford counties close for two Jewish holidays, Baltimore City does not.

A federal appeals court ruling in 1999 said that school districts had a "plausible secular purpose" to close schools during religious holidays when there would be a high rate of absenteeism. The county has not documented a high absentee rate on the Muslim holidays.

Shahan Rizvi, president of the Howard County Muslim Council, worked with other faith leaders to have professional development days shifted to Muslim, Chinese and Hindu holidays on the Howard County school calendar.

The change, Rizvi said, is particularly important at a time of rising anti-Islamic sentiment. Just having the name of the holiday on the calendar, he said, prompts other students to ask what the holiday means and leads to conversations about different faiths.

"It creates a more diverse and inclusive mindset that can lead to better collaboration down the line."

There are no estimates of the number of Muslim children in the Baltimore County school system because the county does not collect data on students' religion, but the number of Muslim residents in the county has been growing steadily, according to Muslim religious leaders. The Islamic Society of Baltimore, a mosque in Catonsville, typically draws 1,800 to 2,000 adults weekly.

Eid al-Adha, considered the holiest of the two days, is usually celebrated in the fall. This year, Eid al-Fitr, which marks the end of Ramadan, the month of fasting, falls in early July. Over the next several years, only one of the holy days falls on a school day.

When the vote is taken, Pharoan said, he will be standing in the audience. If it passes, "I might faint," he said. "I probably will cry a little bit out of happiness."

The same way Hitler fought the Jews.




just sayin

Build a bunch of McDonald's and Walmart's distribute Iphones  and give them welfare and watch them become fat lazy & entitled til their civilization implodes on itself .

In Islam there is no separation of church and state. No secular vs. non-secular. The only way to defeat them will be to use the empire model as suggested above. The ancient Roman's would march, enslave, and kill until the opposition ceased. The Mongols  and others like Persia, Carthage, Egypt come to mind. It hasn't been tried in a while.

Another method could be a long-time subversive campaign to destroy their society from within. Like how after WW2 our social mores have been chipped away by the post-modernist, deconstructionist, critical theory hugging left by taking over the universities to teach this shit. This brought about the "anything goes" and "it's all good" culture which has brought us further down into the cesspool of this pathological ideology. This has all lead to Obama giving away the country to his Muslim buddies while leaders on both sides of the isle just smile and nod. If it worked on us, maybe it will work on Islam.

Or we could just send the Ring to Mordor....a fools hope. ;-)

I've actually heard declaring war would be a good first step from one or two guys/news contributors lately.   Same thing I've said from the very start.   Then those whining about the civil rights of islam adherents here in the states can stfu.   Start at the mosques and work out.   And I'm not in the least be worried about throwing the baby out with the bath water.

We had two solutions which when applied in August seem to work the best . Then you totally control every aspect of the culture and deny rights. You place an American in charge and remove challengers with strong force.  I think we have the ability but not the will to do it

Islam is growing in the West but Christianity is beating it globally in speed.

Can a religion be fought, sure.  Look at Europe, look at America, zealous Christian nations 100+ years ago and had Christian cultures for centuries.  Then probably more than anything else the idea of naturalism and that all things could/would be explained by science produced the immensely popular anti-biblical history stories of Evolution and then the Big Bang.  Once people has a pseudo-scientific explanation that offered them to freedom to do away with the Creator, Christian morals, and need for salvation from sins, all the while feeling very pomp, well, it was only a hop and a skip to the death of Christianity in the West and boys walking into women's restrooms.  

So basically, use apologetics to crush Islam.  Which, I think we do a good job of on here.  Secular governments has had no problem in attacking Christianity using public schools and creating false dilemmas like it being antiscience, so go after Islam with the same.  Frankly just educating people about Mohammad, his appauling teachings, the various factual mistakes, historical mistakes, biblical mistakes in their texts, its bloody origins, the infighting from the moment he died, and its bloody, oppressive fruits ever since, should be more than enough to sway most people from it.  

But instead it's being coddled by Liberals as nothing more than clothes, diets, and prayer rugs while being called a "religion of peace".  The Liberals one-world religious/new agers who think "all religions lead to god" and "all religions teach peace and love" just co-op Islam and defend it, overlaying their own hippy beliefs over it.  That's why Obama and others make statements about violence not being based on Islam or religion, because they've got hippy-rose-colored glasses on that see Islam the way they think religion "should" be, rather than trying to understand that Mohammad really did start a waring, political cult amd that people like ISIS are tying to have a "back to the Quran/Hadiths movement".  The Left can't accept that so they don't.

With pistols and rifles, knives and bayonets, hand grenades and artillery, tanks, air strikes and carpet bombing, grit and will power. That's how you beat bad guys, not with child-like banter.

The American people have no willpower

Invent a propulsion system that does not require a single drop of oil.

Invent a product for each and every thing currently using petroleum that does not require a single drop of oil.

Say "well, bye" to every ME country.

No immigration from the ME to any other country.

Cut off all communications capabilities with the ME.  Complete and utter isolation.

Border wall off the whole place.  No food or goods go beyond the wall in any direction.

As the final point of communication, let them know they can continue to follow their chosen path in whatever form they like.  Alone.  Check back in a few decades see if it shaped up enough to rejoin society.

If not ready yet, keep checking every few decades.  

At some point the problem will have self corrected.