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Posted: 4/17/2016 6:48:52 AM EDT
[#1]
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damn right. even if someone wants to ignore the pure economics of the thing, there's still a massive amount of resources that get tied up in "renewables". for example, PVs require a shitload of highly purified water to manufacture. so pop greenies are robbing from peter to pay paul, and imagining that they're "saving the planet" by doing so. there are certainly ways that we can do a better and more efficient job of producing energy, but the current popular narrative of 'green energy' is a load of shit. i get almost as pissed off about this as i do about water resources. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Maybe I am wrong but green energy is the future. Not tomorrow or next year but it's coming faster than many think. Power companies are really fighting the solar model because, the way I see it, solar will destroy profit margins if it is allowed to grow. all forms of energy are the future. our entire way of life is built upon it, and our food/water strategies are intrinsically bound up in it. but here's a fact--there is no such thing as "green" energy. there are only untapped reservoirs, all of which carry heavy environmental costs. calling something "green" because the costs don't seem severe now is just perpetuating the same old problems. people think geothermal--extracting heat--is 'free', but it is no different than extracting petroleum. the only difference is that we haven't tapped that resource yet, so there is a big surplus right now. don't delude yourself by assuming that what we refer to as 'alternative energy sources' are anything different than the old ones. they're just new logs for the same old fire. And add significant and quantifiable costs to the consumer. The subsidies alone are gargantuan. Txl damn right. even if someone wants to ignore the pure economics of the thing, there's still a massive amount of resources that get tied up in "renewables". for example, PVs require a shitload of highly purified water to manufacture. so pop greenies are robbing from peter to pay paul, and imagining that they're "saving the planet" by doing so. there are certainly ways that we can do a better and more efficient job of producing energy, but the current popular narrative of 'green energy' is a load of shit. i get almost as pissed off about this as i do about water resources. UPW (ultra pure water) is not that hard make and is recycled over and over again. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 6:50:08 AM EDT
[#2]
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How many coal companies have gone under? How many green companies have gone under? Green energy as a baseload generation is a bad idea. Thorium salt reactors as baseload with green as stand-by generators for the grid is a much better idea. But since this is arfcom and the earth is only 6000 years old and college is for stupid idiots. hur dur lets burn puppies and kittens and soylent green for our power. You should be in the industry with your stunning intellect. LOL. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 6:56:34 AM EDT
[#3]
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You should be in the industry with your stunning intellect. LOL. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How many coal companies have gone under? How many green companies have gone under? Green energy as a baseload generation is a bad idea. Thorium salt reactors as baseload with green as stand-by generators for the grid is a much better idea. But since this is arfcom and the earth is only 6000 years old and college is for stupid idiots. hur dur lets burn puppies and kittens and soylent green for our power. You should be in the industry with your stunning intellect. LOL. PV arrays are considered semi conductors and I am currently employed in the semi-conductor field for 14.5 as a engineer. What is your profession? |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 6:59:47 AM EDT
[#4]
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PV arrays are considered semi conductors and I am currently employed in the semi-conductor field for 14.5 as a engineer. What is your profession? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How many coal companies have gone under? How many green companies have gone under? Green energy as a baseload generation is a bad idea. Thorium salt reactors as baseload with green as stand-by generators for the grid is a much better idea. But since this is arfcom and the earth is only 6000 years old and college is for stupid idiots. hur dur lets burn puppies and kittens and soylent green for our power. You should be in the industry with your stunning intellect. LOL. PV arrays are considered semi conductors and I am currently employed in the semi-conductor field for 14.5 as a engineer. What is your profession? I am a NERC certified reliabilty coordinator. Before that I was an electrician in power plants, then operated generating units. Been doing it for over 20 years. I know about this shit. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 7:02:44 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I make no promises about anything. In fact, I specifically said I don't support poorly run companies, green or not. You must have missed that part. Seems to be a theme here. Everything has a trade-off, like the terrible pollution that is expelled from coal plants. But a lot of people don't seem to care about that or its effects on people. You cannot expect green projects to be perfectly accurate but if they are outside of a certain percentage, they should be penalized. Here we go again with subsidies... Are you aware of the help that is given to the fossil fuel industry? Yes? Don't care? Cool. I guess subsidies are great when they help you but evil the second they are used to help advance civilization. So solar cannot live on its own? That's hilarious. Did you miss the part about solar panels all over the ME? What about all the peppers who live off the grid? What about the growing number of people with panels on their roofs who are connected to the grid? A lot of European countries seem to be doing okay with way higher percentages of solar than us. Talking about ignorant, what do you know of my life? You're making a lot of assumptions there. In fact, I lived in the sticks growing up. Losing power was normal, sometimes for over a week at a time. Solar sure would have been nice to have back then. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lemming? You really are a "critical thinker"...LOL. I am sitting in a control center right now watching major voltages lag and other fun things that go along with your retarded wind and solar bullshit who promise to deliver megawatts to the market and rarely produce what they say they will. But because they are so subsidized they suffer no financial penalties. It fucks everything up and ultimately costs more for energy to the consumer. The law also grants them transmission priorities which prevents reliable power from using it and causes much congestion. So the sooner this bullshit goes under, unless it can live on it's own (which it cannot) the better. People who think like you are the ignorant ones and you take reliable electricity for granted, like water and air because it has always been there in your lifetime. I wish we could shut our hated coal power plants ALL off for a week. You would not care if we were shovelling puppies and kittens in the boiler and spewing acid rain out of the stack if you had to go one week without power. I make no promises about anything. In fact, I specifically said I don't support poorly run companies, green or not. You must have missed that part. Seems to be a theme here. Everything has a trade-off, like the terrible pollution that is expelled from coal plants. But a lot of people don't seem to care about that or its effects on people. You cannot expect green projects to be perfectly accurate but if they are outside of a certain percentage, they should be penalized. Here we go again with subsidies... Are you aware of the help that is given to the fossil fuel industry? Yes? Don't care? Cool. I guess subsidies are great when they help you but evil the second they are used to help advance civilization. So solar cannot live on its own? That's hilarious. Did you miss the part about solar panels all over the ME? What about all the peppers who live off the grid? What about the growing number of people with panels on their roofs who are connected to the grid? A lot of European countries seem to be doing okay with way higher percentages of solar than us. Talking about ignorant, what do you know of my life? You're making a lot of assumptions there. In fact, I lived in the sticks growing up. Losing power was normal, sometimes for over a week at a time. Solar sure would have been nice to have back then. So what part of the energy industry are you involved with? |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 7:05:26 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do people think these companies were about a product? The company gets huge $$$ from the government in the form of a grant/loans. The company turns around and gives large parts of that money to politicians, charities of politicians, PACs, and national parties. After that...purpose of company is fulfilled...go bankrupt, whatever...money transfer to politicians is done. The purpose is moving money from the treasury to the political class...nothing more. Like. Wow.  |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 7:06:16 AM EDT
[#7]
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I am a NERC certified reliabilty coordinator. Before that I was an electrician in power plants, then operated generating units. Been doing it for over 20 years. I know about this shit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How many coal companies have gone under? How many green companies have gone under? Green energy as a baseload generation is a bad idea. Thorium salt reactors as baseload with green as stand-by generators for the grid is a much better idea. But since this is arfcom and the earth is only 6000 years old and college is for stupid idiots. hur dur lets burn puppies and kittens and soylent green for our power. You should be in the industry with your stunning intellect. LOL. PV arrays are considered semi conductors and I am currently employed in the semi-conductor field for 14.5 as a engineer. What is your profession? I am a NERC certified reliabilty coordinator. Before that I was an electrician in power plants, then operated generating units. Been doing it for over 20 years. I know about this shit. So then what is the issue with thorium salt reactors as baseload generation and green as backup? |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 7:06:42 AM EDT
[#8]
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It doesn't matter what the product is. If you borrow and spend like a rock star, you're going to go tits up. FPNI. Solar isn't responsible for the bankruptcy, bad management/planning is. The solar panels on my roof generated 145kWh yesterday, close to 3 times what I used, the excess is being banked (account credit) to cover times in the winter when the panels generate less than I use, so overall I don't pay a cent anymore for electricity. The system was projected to pay for itself in under 5 years and everything is warrantied for 25 to 30 years so I should get 20+ years of pure profit (unless I replace the panels early with newer technology). The best thing is that they are solid black panels, solid black frame, no visible conduit, on a black roof so they aren't a fucking eyesore like most solar installations. (ETA: I personally don't care if it's green or not, I'm more interested in saving money) |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 7:09:28 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And let's get something clear that is always left out in these discussion. Coal and oil do not get subsidies like solar does. They get tax breaks but solar gets the same tax breaks as well, as do any companies that pay taxes. A tax break is NOT. A subsidy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Maybe I am wrong but green energy is the future. Not tomorrow or next year but it's coming faster than many think. Power companies are really fighting the solar model because, the way I see it, solar will destroy profit margins if it is allowed to grow. all forms of energy are the future. our entire way of life is built upon it, and our food/water strategies are intrinsically bound up in it. but here's a fact--there is no such thing as "green" energy. there are only untapped reservoirs, all of which carry heavy environmental costs. calling something "green" because the costs don't seem severe now is just perpetuating the same old problems. people think geothermal--extracting heat--is 'free', but it is no different than extracting petroleum. the only difference is that we haven't tapped that resource yet, so there is a big surplus right now. don't delude yourself by assuming that what we refer to as 'alternative energy sources' are anything different than the old ones. they're just new logs for the same old fire. And add significant and quantifiable costs to the consumer. The subsidies alone are gargantuan. Txl And let's get something clear that is always left out in these discussion. Coal and oil do not get subsidies like solar does. They get tax breaks but solar gets the same tax breaks as well, as do any companies that pay taxes. A tax break is NOT. A subsidy. To a leftist it is, because ALL money belongs to the gov't in their minds. Well except for their own usually. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 7:11:41 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe I am wrong but green energy is the future. Not tomorrow or next year but it's coming faster than many think. Power companies are really fighting the solar model because, the way I see it, solar will destroy profit margins if it is allowed to grow. Yeah, it's not as cheap as burning coal today but prices are falling rapidly. And it's a lot cleaner as well though many people don't put a price on pollution. I'm not a tree hugging hippy but I also don't like breathing in dirty air and getting sick. One of my friend's daughters has uncontrollable vomiting spells when the air quality gets bad. That's a problem. And to all the people complaining about the government handouts and subsidies, do some research. Oil, gas, and coal get a lot of help financially and politically. Look at our tax code. It's ignorant to call out green companies for taking money when oil and gas rake in the government money as well. If a company, green or not, is poorly managed, let them go under. I am not saying that SUNE should get a bailout. Rather, don't purposely try to hinder successful green companies because they might hurt profit margins for large fossil fuel companies. Tesla and Solar City for example. SUNE is failing not because solar is too expensive, but rather poor management, lots of debt, and high interest rates. Those problems can and have killed many companies over the years. I'm not calling for a ban on dirty fuels by the end of the year but it's time to cut back on their funding and put it into other areas like nuclear and green energy. This isn't the stone age--we can do better than coal and oil. Life is easy when you're a lemming, eh? Certainly a lot easier than doing research and employing some critical thinking. Don't waste your time. Petroglodytes never look past the next quarterly shareholder's meeting. The future will be left to their great-grandchildren to deal with. Too bad they actively block the kinds of projects that will help them be successful before they run out of dino juice. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 7:12:04 AM EDT
[#11]
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So then what is the issue with thorium salt reactors as baseload generation and green as backup? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How many coal companies have gone under? How many green companies have gone under? Green energy as a baseload generation is a bad idea. Thorium salt reactors as baseload with green as stand-by generators for the grid is a much better idea. But since this is arfcom and the earth is only 6000 years old and college is for stupid idiots. hur dur lets burn puppies and kittens and soylent green for our power. You should be in the industry with your stunning intellect. LOL. PV arrays are considered semi conductors and I am currently employed in the semi-conductor field for 14.5 as a engineer. What is your profession? I am a NERC certified reliabilty coordinator. Before that I was an electrician in power plants, then operated generating units. Been doing it for over 20 years. I know about this shit. So then what is the issue with thorium salt reactors as baseload generation and green as backup? Thorium salt reactors will never be allowed by the government and green is unreliable and expensive. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 7:12:43 AM EDT
[#12]
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FPNI. Solar isn't responsible for the bankruptcy, bad management/planning is. The solar panels on my roof generated 145kWh yesterday, close to 3 times what I used, the excess is being banked (account credit) to cover times in the winter when the panels generate less than I use, so overall I don't pay a cent anymore for electricity. The system was projected to pay for itself in under 5 years and everything is warrantied for 25 to 30 years so I should get 20+ years of pure profit (unless I replace the panels early with newer technology). The best thing is that they are solid black panels, solid black frame, no visible conduit, on a black roof so they aren't a fucking eyesore like most solar installations. (ETA: I personally don't care if it's green or not, I'm more interested in saving money) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It doesn't matter what the product is. If you borrow and spend like a rock star, you're going to go tits up. FPNI. Solar isn't responsible for the bankruptcy, bad management/planning is. The solar panels on my roof generated 145kWh yesterday, close to 3 times what I used, the excess is being banked (account credit) to cover times in the winter when the panels generate less than I use, so overall I don't pay a cent anymore for electricity. The system was projected to pay for itself in under 5 years and everything is warrantied for 25 to 30 years so I should get 20+ years of pure profit (unless I replace the panels early with newer technology). The best thing is that they are solid black panels, solid black frame, no visible conduit, on a black roof so they aren't a fucking eyesore like most solar installations. (ETA: I personally don't care if it's green or not, I'm more interested in saving money) all of which is heavily subsidized at every level. I mean, you are a taxpayer and if you can find anyway to fuck the government right back, more power to you. but lets not pretend this is some milton friedman shit going on. the production cost, installation, buy back costs (never mind the PITA of introduction of low voltage into the power lines),I assume a nice juicy tax credit somewhere along the line. all of this, in the absence of massive government spending, would have cost you an irretrievable fortune. solar where there is no grid makes sense. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 7:13:45 AM EDT
[#13]
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Don't waste your time. Petroglodytes never look past the next quarterly shareholder's meeting. The future will be left to their great-grandchildren to deal with. Too bad they actively block the kinds of projects that will help them be successful before they run out of dino juice. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Maybe I am wrong but green energy is the future. Not tomorrow or next year but it's coming faster than many think. Power companies are really fighting the solar model because, the way I see it, solar will destroy profit margins if it is allowed to grow. Yeah, it's not as cheap as burning coal today but prices are falling rapidly. And it's a lot cleaner as well though many people don't put a price on pollution. I'm not a tree hugging hippy but I also don't like breathing in dirty air and getting sick. One of my friend's daughters has uncontrollable vomiting spells when the air quality gets bad. That's a problem. And to all the people complaining about the government handouts and subsidies, do some research. Oil, gas, and coal get a lot of help financially and politically. Look at our tax code. It's ignorant to call out green companies for taking money when oil and gas rake in the government money as well. If a company, green or not, is poorly managed, let them go under. I am not saying that SUNE should get a bailout. Rather, don't purposely try to hinder successful green companies because they might hurt profit margins for large fossil fuel companies. Tesla and Solar City for example. SUNE is failing not because solar is too expensive, but rather poor management, lots of debt, and high interest rates. Those problems can and have killed many companies over the years. I'm not calling for a ban on dirty fuels by the end of the year but it's time to cut back on their funding and put it into other areas like nuclear and green energy. This isn't the stone age--we can do better than coal and oil. Life is easy when you're a lemming, eh? Certainly a lot easier than doing research and employing some critical thinking. Don't waste your time. Petroglodytes never look past the next quarterly shareholder's meeting. The future will be left to their great-grandchildren to deal with. Too bad they actively block the kinds of projects that will help them be successful before they run out of dino juice. yeah. which is why nuclear is so popular. oh, wait. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 7:16:30 AM EDT
[#14]
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I mean, you are a taxpayer and if you can find anyway to fuck the government right back, more power to you. Exactly. The system is broken in favor of solar at the moment, I pay a ton of tax so this is one way to claw back some of what they take from me. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 7:19:01 AM EDT
[#15]
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Exactly. The system is broken in favor of solar at the moment, I pay a ton of tax so this is one way to claw back some of what they take from me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I mean, you are a taxpayer and if you can find anyway to fuck the government right back, more power to you. Exactly. The system is broken in favor of solar at the moment, I pay a ton of tax so this is one way to claw back some of what they take from me. And I support you doing so, but at least be honest and up front that without the government subsidizing solar at every level, it wouldn't work. you are just fucking the government (and yourself, in theory) because they made it profitable to do so artificially and primarily for the purpose of funding their campaign contributors. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 7:26:34 AM EDT
[#16]
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Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not. Solar has it's place, like the situation you describe. What solar isn't going to do is replace natural gas and oil anytime soon, and ironically, that's exactly what these 'progressive'-leftists think that it can and will do. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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One thing that w/should sicken most people that I have to look at almost every single day: thousands of solar panel arrays scattered throughout the Afghan countryside...presumably to power lights, water pumps, etc. in houses and villages that would otherwise be off the essentially non-existent grid.  +
Next let's talk about microhydro(electric). Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not. Solar has it's place, like the situation you describe. What solar isn't going to do is replace natural gas and oil anytime soon, and ironically, that's exactly what these 'progressive'-leftists think that it can and will do. Not being sarcastic in the least. SunEdison (not directly) and others are going bankrupt because they are executing stupid give-away project like the one in Afghanistan. Distribute millions of (U.S. taxpayer $) worth of solar arrays in a country which is pretty much electric-free and where the devices are stolen, destroyed, broken, sold, pretty much anything and everything except what they what the goody-do-gooders intended them to be used for. Next let's talk about the $43M gas station we constructed for the 'ghans...although $43M isn't really that big of a deal when you consider it was part of a $1B project to develop one of Afghanistan's oil and gas producing regions. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 7:31:03 AM EDT
[#17]
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And I support you doing so, but at least be honest and up front that without the government subsidizing solar at every level, it wouldn't work. you are just fucking the government (and yourself, in theory) because they made it profitable to do so artificially and primarily for the purpose of funding their campaign contributors. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I mean, you are a taxpayer and if you can find anyway to fuck the government right back, more power to you. Exactly. The system is broken in favor of solar at the moment, I pay a ton of tax so this is one way to claw back some of what they take from me. And I support you doing so, but at least be honest and up front that without the government subsidizing solar at every level, it wouldn't work. you are just fucking the government (and yourself, in theory) because they made it profitable to do so artificially and primarily for the purpose of funding their campaign contributors. There's still some benefit to Government subsidizing it - it encourages commercial research and investment in solar technologies so they will become more efficient and economically viable without subsidies much quicker. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 7:35:45 AM EDT
[#18]
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Holy fuck that's sigline worthy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It doesn't matter what the product is. If you borrow and spend like a rock star, you're going to go tits up. Exactly, and if you're stupid enough to let politicians get involved you'd still somehow wind up running a loss from a $25 rub 'n tug shop completely staffed by Swedish nymphomaniacs right outside the front gates of Camp Pendleton. Holy fuck that's sigline worthy. Ain't it though? |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 7:42:17 AM EDT
[#19]
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There's still some benefit to Government subsidizing it - it encourages commercial research and investment in solar technologies so they will become more efficient and economically viable without subsidies much quicker. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I mean, you are a taxpayer and if you can find anyway to fuck the government right back, more power to you. Exactly. The system is broken in favor of solar at the moment, I pay a ton of tax so this is one way to claw back some of what they take from me. And I support you doing so, but at least be honest and up front that without the government subsidizing solar at every level, it wouldn't work. you are just fucking the government (and yourself, in theory) because they made it profitable to do so artificially and primarily for the purpose of funding their campaign contributors. There's still some benefit to Government subsidizing it - it encourages commercial research and investment in solar technologies so they will become more efficient and economically viable without subsidies much quicker. No it doesn't. government subsidies artificially inflate the price allowing less successful technologies to be focused on because the profits are still there. If it could be economically viable, investments would come from the private sector. but since they care about actual profits and not campaign contributions, they stay out of the voodoo green energy market. lie to the government all you want. but don't lie to yourself. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 7:44:48 AM EDT
[#20]
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One thing that w/should sicken most people that I have to look at almost every single day: thousands of solar panel arrays scattered throughout the Afghan countryside...presumably to power lights, water pumps, etc. in houses and villages that would otherwise be off the essentially non-existent grid. +
Next let's talk about microhydro(electric). Wait until you get back home and go out West and see all those fucking wind power turbines all over the fucking place. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 7:45:55 AM EDT
[#21]
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.................. And I support you doing so, but at least be honest and up front that without the government subsidizing solar at every level, it wouldn't work. you are just fucking the government (and yourself, in theory) because they made it profitable to do so artificially and primarily for the purpose of funding their campaign contributors. Ya' think? |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 7:48:21 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not being sarcastic in the least. SunEdison (not directly) and others are going bankrupt because they are executing stupid give-away project like the one in Afghanistan. Distribute millions of (U.S. taxpayer $) worth of solar arrays in a country which is pretty much electric-free and where the devices are stolen, destroyed, broken, sold, pretty much anything and everything except what they what the goody-do-gooders intended them to be used for. Next let's talk about the $43M gas station we constructed for the 'ghans...although $43M isn't really that big of a deal when you consider it was part of a $1B project to develop one of Afghanistan's oil and gas producing regions. LOL I did some work on that project. On the well side of things. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 7:53:56 AM EDT
[#23]
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If the government would just use money for research for pannels that are profitable, rather than for subsidies, maybe we could get somewhere. As long as we are spending the money anyways. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile This. The money should go for pure research. It is hard to run a business and do R&D. The profit still needs to be there so the company can survive. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 7:56:19 AM EDT
[#24]
I have always attributed domestic solar power companies problems partly on China flooding the world market with their solar panels. The Chinese industries are able to run without any profit due to state subsidies and in areas like solar panels, steel, and aluminum the bottom of the markets have literally fell open. Like it or not solar power panels have significantly increased in rate of installation to almost 4 times the power generation in 15 years time and in situations where micro grid or off grid is called for they are great. However I do worry about the overall reliability of the power grid as more unreliable power generation is mandated. Without future tech energy storage, the power grid has to have great stand by resources available to make solar power or wind power work. And with the ever growing installation of renewables the reliability of the grid will be threatened until that is resolved. California is perfect example of how government fucked this up with the most unreliable power grid across nation, they are able to say how green they are while they import coal power from neighboring states.
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Posted: 4/17/2016 8:14:26 AM EDT
[#25]
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We own this Railroad caboose and the land it sits on in the Sawtooth Region of Idaho. I have killed at least 15 elk and many more deer within earshot. It was helo'd in the middle of nowhere in the 70's. There is a snow runoff year round creek within feet of the deck, nowhere near a power source and the little power it has is solar. We are able to run lights inside, small appliances and charge our electronics to include a satellite phone. I like solar energy. http://i.imgur.com/EisiBoA.jpg nothing wrong with solar.the government needs to stop funding these companies that go bellie up.after millions of dollars are invested. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 8:16:28 AM EDT
[#26]
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How many coal companies have gone under? How many green companies have gone under? Green energy as a baseload generation is a bad idea. Thorium salt reactors as baseload with green as stand-by generators for the grid is a much better idea. But since this is arfcom and the earth is only 6000 years old and college is for stupid idiots. hur dur lets burn puppies and kittens and soylent green for our power. +100 except for the stupid aftcom people. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 8:19:37 AM EDT
[#27]
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+100 except for the stupid aftcom people. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How many coal companies have gone under? How many green companies have gone under? Green energy as a baseload generation is a bad idea. Thorium salt reactors as baseload with green as stand-by generators for the grid is a much better idea. But since this is arfcom and the earth is only 6000 years old and college is for stupid idiots. hur dur lets burn puppies and kittens and soylent green for our power. +100 except for the stupid aftcom people. the coal companies are going out of business because Obama is putting them out. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 8:20:52 AM EDT
[#28]
Once there was a village in Africa. Everyone in the village got all of their water from a large muddy bog on the edge of the village. They drank the water, along with the wild animals, that also defecated and died in the bog. Everyone would get sick. One day a smart guy said, we should dig a well, cover it and keep the animals out, because I think our water is making us all sick and its only getting worse. The town yelled, "Who's going to dig the well and how do you know it will be good for us?"
The man replied "If everyone chips in a little for the shovel and bucket, I will dig the well and i think its something we need to try, it cant hurt to try." Four years later, the town finally agreed to buy the man the shovel and bucket. He guessed at a good spot and started digging. One day, as he was digging, a puddle started to form around his feet. He quickly climbed out of the pit and yelled with excitement! The townspeople rushed to the edge of the well and looked down. Fresh, clean, filtered water was slowly trickling into the well. A small clear puddle was slowly growing at the bottom of the well. "There's not enough water there for all of us!" The townspeople yelled "There's barely any water at all! This was a complete waste!" "No, no," the man pleaded. "Look, I know it's not enough for all of our needs, but it's enough for us to at least drink. It's clean, fresh water, it's safe water." "Bah!" Yelled the townspeople "you wasted our time and our money with your stupid idea!" And they continued to get sick and die. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 8:27:20 AM EDT
[#29]
I'd love to see solar energy become efficient and cost effective. That would be great. Maybe it will be there sometime between 5-20 years. Then, I can make a one-time investment and not have to worry about power grid failures and worry less about the gov hiking prices.
But SJWs forcing high priced energy on consumers is just a way to suck money out of your pocket, and using government regulation to handicap cheap energy does nothing but hurt you and me. You know it's a stacked deck because they refuse to look at nuke power as a viable source, even though it's super clean. They also do their best to demonize hydroelectric power. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 8:28:22 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Once there was a village in Africa. Everyone in the village got all of their water from a large muddy bog on the edge of the village. They drank the water, along with the wild animals, that also defecated and died in the bog. Everyone would get sick. One day a smart guy said, we should dig a well, cover it and keep the animals out, because I think our water is making us all sick and its only getting worse. The town yelled, "Who's going to dig the well and how do you know it will be good for us?" The man replied "If everyone chips in a little for the shovel and bucket, I will dig the well and i think its something we need to try, it cant hurt to try." Four years later, the town finally agreed to buy the man the shovel and bucket. He guessed at a good spot and started digging. One day, as he was digging, a puddle started to form around his feet. He quickly climbed out of the pit and yelled with excitement! The townspeople rushed to the edge of the well and looked down. Fresh, clean, filtered water was slowly trickling into the well. A small clear puddle was slowly growing at the bottom of the well. "There's not enough water there for all of us!" The townspeople yelled "There's barely any water at all! This was a complete waste!" "No, no," the man pleaded. "Look, I know it's not enough for all of our needs, but it's enough for us to at least drink. It's clean, fresh water, it's safe water." "Bah!" Yelled the townspeople "you wasted our time and our money with your stupid idea!" And they continued to get sick and die. FFS. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 8:43:12 AM EDT
[#31]
The problem with wind and solar are that the wind has the blow or the sun has to shine and most of the time it doesn't. Then there is always the pesky operation and maintenance costs to deal with. Economics is a bitch.
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Posted: 4/17/2016 8:47:29 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Once there was a village in Africa. Everyone in the village got all of their water from a large muddy bog on the edge of the village. They drank the water, along with the wild animals, that also defecated and died in the bog. Everyone would get sick. One day a smart guy said, we should dig a well, cover it and keep the animals out, because I think our water is making us all sick and its only getting worse. The town yelled, "Who's going to dig the well and how do you know it will be good for us?" The man replied "If everyone chips in a little for the shovel and bucket, I will dig the well and i think its something we need to try, it cant hurt to try." Four years later, the town finally agreed to buy the man the shovel and bucket. He guessed at a good spot and started digging. One day, as he was digging, a puddle started to form around his feet. He quickly climbed out of the pit and yelled with excitement! The townspeople rushed to the edge of the well and looked down. Fresh, clean, filtered water was slowly trickling into the well. A small clear puddle was slowly growing at the bottom of the well. "There's not enough water there for all of us!" The townspeople yelled "There's barely any water at all! This was a complete waste!" "No, no," the man pleaded. "Look, I know it's not enough for all of our needs, but it's enough for us to at least drink. It's clean, fresh water, it's safe water." "Bah!" Yelled the townspeople "you wasted our time and our money with your stupid idea!" And they continued to get sick and die. Now if only he guy had used his OWN shovel and bucket so he was not reliant on taking shovels and buckets from the people, and not rushed a crappy shallow well to market before it was able to operate properly, the villagers would have come up to him and said "wow, that's some pretty clean water. We'll give you one chicken per person per year for access." Then the guy would become the chicken king of Africa. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 8:47:42 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Based upon this success. Let's go ahead and shut down the coal plants that work well. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile That's the real way to cut CO2 emissions. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 8:52:04 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wait until you get back home and go out West and see all those fucking wind power turbines all over the fucking place. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
One thing that w/should sicken most people that I have to look at almost every single day: thousands of solar panel arrays scattered throughout the Afghan countryside...presumably to power lights, water pumps, etc. in houses and villages that would otherwise be off the essentially non-existent grid. +
Next let's talk about microhydro(electric). Wait until you get back home and go out West and see all those fucking wind power turbines all over the fucking place. I hate those things. A blight upon the landscape. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 8:58:08 AM EDT
[#35]
Did they have a loan from 0?
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Posted: 4/17/2016 9:11:22 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
all of which is heavily subsidized at every level. I mean, you are a taxpayer and if you can find anyway to fuck the government right back, more power to you. but lets not pretend this is some milton friedman shit going on. the production cost, installation, buy back costs (never mind the PITA of introduction of low voltage into the power lines),I assume a nice juicy tax credit somewhere along the line. all of this, in the absence of massive government spending, would have cost you an irretrievable fortune. solar where there is no grid makes sense. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It doesn't matter what the product is. If you borrow and spend like a rock star, you're going to go tits up. FPNI. Solar isn't responsible for the bankruptcy, bad management/planning is. The solar panels on my roof generated 145kWh yesterday, close to 3 times what I used, the excess is being banked (account credit) to cover times in the winter when the panels generate less than I use, so overall I don't pay a cent anymore for electricity. The system was projected to pay for itself in under 5 years and everything is warrantied for 25 to 30 years so I should get 20+ years of pure profit (unless I replace the panels early with newer technology). The best thing is that they are solid black panels, solid black frame, no visible conduit, on a black roof so they aren't a fucking eyesore like most solar installations. (ETA: I personally don't care if it's green or not, I'm more interested in saving money) all of which is heavily subsidized at every level. I mean, you are a taxpayer and if you can find anyway to fuck the government right back, more power to you. but lets not pretend this is some milton friedman shit going on. the production cost, installation, buy back costs (never mind the PITA of introduction of low voltage into the power lines),I assume a nice juicy tax credit somewhere along the line. all of this, in the absence of massive government spending, would have cost you an irretrievable fortune. solar where there is no grid makes sense. All of this could be said for any energy industry. Oil, nuclear, coal, wood . . . None of them get anywhere near off the ground without massive subsidy. I hit my tenth year in PV next summer. I avoid these threads because AR15 GD is as right about PV as liberals are about guns. These threads are just a big circle-jerk for the ill-informed. I'm realistic and don't think PV is an end all solution, but it is the BEST supplement. It is my professional opinion, and shared by many of the heavily experienced in my field: we are coming to what we call "the reckoning" in the next couple years. SunEdison here is a pre-cursor, a glimpse into the future if you will. Solar City, Vivint, SunRun, and all the big names that operate a massive deficits every year are going to go under in the coming years. Its not PV failing, it's poor management and business's failing. The realPV companies will thrive. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 9:14:27 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FPNI. Solar isn't responsible for the bankruptcy, bad management/planning is. The solar panels on my roof generated 145kWh yesterday, close to 3 times what I used, the excess is being banked (account credit) to cover times in the winter when the panels generate less than I use, so overall I don't pay a cent anymore for electricity. The system was projected to pay for itself in under 5 years and everything is warrantied for 25 to 30 years so I should get 20+ years of pure profit (unless I replace the panels early with newer technology). The best thing is that they are solid black panels, solid black frame, no visible conduit, on a black roof so they aren't a fucking eyesore like most solar installations. (ETA: I personally don't care if it's green or not, I'm more interested in saving money) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It doesn't matter what the product is. If you borrow and spend like a rock star, you're going to go tits up. FPNI. Solar isn't responsible for the bankruptcy, bad management/planning is. The solar panels on my roof generated 145kWh yesterday, close to 3 times what I used, the excess is being banked (account credit) to cover times in the winter when the panels generate less than I use, so overall I don't pay a cent anymore for electricity. The system was projected to pay for itself in under 5 years and everything is warrantied for 25 to 30 years so I should get 20+ years of pure profit (unless I replace the panels early with newer technology). The best thing is that they are solid black panels, solid black frame, no visible conduit, on a black roof so they aren't a fucking eyesore like most solar installations. (ETA: I personally don't care if it's green or not, I'm more interested in saving money) Who installed it? |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 9:18:59 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It doesn't matter what the product is. If you borrow and spend like a rock star, you're going to go tits up. Add to that: When your business model requires governments to provide ever larger subsidies, you're going to go tits up. Both are true and both are how you go from $10B to bankrupt. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 9:21:46 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All of this could be said for any energy industry. Oil, nuclear, coal, wood . . . None of them get anywhere near off the ground without massive subsidy. I hit my tenth year in PV next summer. I avoid these threads because AR15 GD is as right about PV as liberals are about guns. These threads are just a big circle-jerk for the ill-informed. I'm realistic and don't think PV is an end all solution, but it is the BEST supplement. It is my professional opinion, and shared by many of the heavily experienced in my field: we are coming to what we call "the reckoning" in the next couple years. SunEdison here is a pre-cursor, a glimpse into the future if you will. Solar City, Vivint, SunRun, and all the big names that operate a massive deficits every year are going to go under in the coming years. Its not PV failing, it's poor management and business's failing. The realPV companies will thrive. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It doesn't matter what the product is. If you borrow and spend like a rock star, you're going to go tits up. FPNI. Solar isn't responsible for the bankruptcy, bad management/planning is. The solar panels on my roof generated 145kWh yesterday, close to 3 times what I used, the excess is being banked (account credit) to cover times in the winter when the panels generate less than I use, so overall I don't pay a cent anymore for electricity. The system was projected to pay for itself in under 5 years and everything is warrantied for 25 to 30 years so I should get 20+ years of pure profit (unless I replace the panels early with newer technology). The best thing is that they are solid black panels, solid black frame, no visible conduit, on a black roof so they aren't a fucking eyesore like most solar installations. (ETA: I personally don't care if it's green or not, I'm more interested in saving money) all of which is heavily subsidized at every level. I mean, you are a taxpayer and if you can find anyway to fuck the government right back, more power to you. but lets not pretend this is some milton friedman shit going on. the production cost, installation, buy back costs (never mind the PITA of introduction of low voltage into the power lines),I assume a nice juicy tax credit somewhere along the line. all of this, in the absence of massive government spending, would have cost you an irretrievable fortune. solar where there is no grid makes sense. All of this could be said for any energy industry. Oil, nuclear, coal, wood . . . None of them get anywhere near off the ground without massive subsidy. I hit my tenth year in PV next summer. I avoid these threads because AR15 GD is as right about PV as liberals are about guns. These threads are just a big circle-jerk for the ill-informed. I'm realistic and don't think PV is an end all solution, but it is the BEST supplement. It is my professional opinion, and shared by many of the heavily experienced in my field: we are coming to what we call "the reckoning" in the next couple years. SunEdison here is a pre-cursor, a glimpse into the future if you will. Solar City, Vivint, SunRun, and all the big names that operate a massive deficits every year are going to go under in the coming years. Its not PV failing, it's poor management and business's failing. The realPV companies will thrive. Throw in a heaping spoonful of government failing, by trying to social engineer a change that the market clearly does not want or need at this point in time. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 9:22:38 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So then what is the issue with thorium salt reactors as baseload generation and green as backup? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How many coal companies have gone under? How many green companies have gone under? Green energy as a baseload generation is a bad idea. Thorium salt reactors as baseload with green as stand-by generators for the grid is a much better idea. But since this is arfcom and the earth is only 6000 years old and college is for stupid idiots. hur dur lets burn puppies and kittens and soylent green for our power. You should be in the industry with your stunning intellect. LOL. PV arrays are considered semi conductors and I am currently employed in the semi-conductor field for 14.5 as a engineer. What is your profession? I am a NERC certified reliabilty coordinator. Before that I was an electrician in power plants, then operated generating units. Been doing it for over 20 years. I know about this shit. So then what is the issue with thorium salt reactors as baseload generation and green as backup? Back up generation means it has to work 100% of the time when needed and it has to work NOW. "Green'' energy is neither of those. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 9:23:42 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who installed it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It doesn't matter what the product is. If you borrow and spend like a rock star, you're going to go tits up. FPNI. Solar isn't responsible for the bankruptcy, bad management/planning is. The solar panels on my roof generated 145kWh yesterday, close to 3 times what I used, the excess is being banked (account credit) to cover times in the winter when the panels generate less than I use, so overall I don't pay a cent anymore for electricity. The system was projected to pay for itself in under 5 years and everything is warrantied for 25 to 30 years so I should get 20+ years of pure profit (unless I replace the panels early with newer technology). The best thing is that they are solid black panels, solid black frame, no visible conduit, on a black roof so they aren't a fucking eyesore like most solar installations. (ETA: I personally don't care if it's green or not, I'm more interested in saving money) Who installed it? https://www.directenergy.com/ |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 9:28:25 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Throw in a heaping spoonful of government failing, by trying to social engineer a change that the market clearly does not want or need at this point in time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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It doesn't matter what the product is. If you borrow and spend like a rock star, you're going to go tits up. FPNI. Solar isn't responsible for the bankruptcy, bad management/planning is. The solar panels on my roof generated 145kWh yesterday, close to 3 times what I used, the excess is being banked (account credit) to cover times in the winter when the panels generate less than I use, so overall I don't pay a cent anymore for electricity. The system was projected to pay for itself in under 5 years and everything is warrantied for 25 to 30 years so I should get 20+ years of pure profit (unless I replace the panels early with newer technology). The best thing is that they are solid black panels, solid black frame, no visible conduit, on a black roof so they aren't a fucking eyesore like most solar installations. (ETA: I personally don't care if it's green or not, I'm more interested in saving money) all of which is heavily subsidized at every level. I mean, you are a taxpayer and if you can find anyway to fuck the government right back, more power to you. but lets not pretend this is some milton friedman shit going on. the production cost, installation, buy back costs (never mind the PITA of introduction of low voltage into the power lines),I assume a nice juicy tax credit somewhere along the line. all of this, in the absence of massive government spending, would have cost you an irretrievable fortune. solar where there is no grid makes sense. All of this could be said for any energy industry. Oil, nuclear, coal, wood . . . None of them get anywhere near off the ground without massive subsidy. I hit my tenth year in PV next summer. I avoid these threads because AR15 GD is as right about PV as liberals are about guns. These threads are just a big circle-jerk for the ill-informed. I'm realistic and don't think PV is an end all solution, but it is the BEST supplement. It is my professional opinion, and shared by many of the heavily experienced in my field: we are coming to what we call "the reckoning" in the next couple years. SunEdison here is a pre-cursor, a glimpse into the future if you will. Solar City, Vivint, SunRun, and all the big names that operate a massive deficits every year are going to go under in the coming years. Its not PV failing, it's poor management and business's failing. The realPV companies will thrive. Throw in a heaping spoonful of government failing, by trying to social engineer a change that the market clearly does not want or need at this point in time. I'm all for less govt, but I don't know what you mean. We have no problem selling these systems, with or without funding. I'm building my own 6Kw system for $4k with used parts. It will pay itself off in 2 years. Not a penny of funding. Should be producing at 80% in 20 years, and will add something like 15-20k to the value of my home. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 9:34:21 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm all for less govt, but I don't know what you mean. We have no problem selling these systems, with or without funding. I'm building my own 6Kw system for $4k with used parts. It will pay itself off in 2 years. Not a penny of funding. You are a rare breed. I know more than a few people that have put in PV and/or wind. All that I know would not have done it without the Fed and state subsidies. I'd bet the company I work for would not have installed any wind or solar had it not been a combination of subsidies and mandates. All those PV companies are failing because the market did not ask for the demand that arose, the gov't induced it by handing out free money. I'd bet there is some chrony capitalism going on also, but the overriding issue is that the market does not need wind or solar right now. One can argue that the market won't ask for alternatives until a crisis occurs, and that is likely true. I'd probably have some type of simplified array also, but the township regs make it too hard to do something relatively simple, so I don't. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 9:35:17 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm all for less govt, but I don't know what you mean. We have no problem selling these systems, with or without funding. I'm building my own 6Kw system for $4k with used parts. It will pay itself off in 2 years. Not a penny of funding. Should be producing at 80% in 20 years, and will add something like 15-20k to the value of my home. You have no problem selling them because you are subsidized at every, fucking level of production and sales. There would still be some sales to the prius crowd, and more power to you. but let the consumer bear the full cost of his philanthropy. Not the taxpayer. http://www.sunlightelectric.com/subsidies.php US Subsidies alone Corporate Depreciation: Modified Accelerated Cost-Recovery System (MACRS) Corporate Exemption: Residential Energy Conservation Subsidy Exclusion (Corporate) Corporate Tax Credit: Renewable Electricity Production Tax Credit Solar and Geothermal Business Energy Tax Credit Federal Grant Program: Renewable Energy Systems and Energy Efficiency Improvements Program Tribal Energy Program Grant Value-Added Producer Grant Program Federal Loan Program Energy Efficient Mortgage (EEM) Energy Star Financing and Mortgages Tax-exempt Financing for Green Buildings, Renewable Energy & Brownfield Redevelopment Personal Exemption: Residential Energy Conservation Subsidy Exclusion (Personal) Production Incentive: Conservation Security Program (CSP) Production Incentive Renewable Energy Production Incentive (REPI) Green Power Purchasing/Aggregation: Federal Government - Green Power Purchasing Goal Alternative Fuel Vehicle Incentives and Policies: U.S. Department of Energy's Clean Cities Program |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 9:39:53 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You have no problem selling them because you are subsidized at every, fucking level of production and sales. There would still be some sales to the prius crowd, and more power to you. but let the consumer bear the full cost of his philanthropy. Not the taxpayer. http://www.sunlightelectric.com/subsidies.php US Subsidies alone Corporate Depreciation: Modified Accelerated Cost-Recovery System (MACRS) Corporate Exemption: Residential Energy Conservation Subsidy Exclusion (Corporate) Corporate Tax Credit: Renewable Electricity Production Tax Credit Solar and Geothermal Business Energy Tax Credit Federal Grant Program: Renewable Energy Systems and Energy Efficiency Improvements Program Tribal Energy Program Grant Value-Added Producer Grant Program Federal Loan Program Energy Efficient Mortgage (EEM) Energy Star Financing and Mortgages Tax-exempt Financing for Green Buildings, Renewable Energy & Brownfield Redevelopment Personal Exemption: Residential Energy Conservation Subsidy Exclusion (Personal) Production Incentive: Conservation Security Program (CSP) Production Incentive Renewable Energy Production Incentive (REPI) Green Power Purchasing/Aggregation: Federal Government - Green Power Purchasing Goal Alternative Fuel Vehicle Incentives and Policies: U.S. Department of Energy's Clean Cities Program Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm all for less govt, but I don't know what you mean. We have no problem selling these systems, with or without funding. I'm building my own 6Kw system for $4k with used parts. It will pay itself off in 2 years. Not a penny of funding. Should be producing at 80% in 20 years, and will add something like 15-20k to the value of my home. You have no problem selling them because you are subsidized at every, fucking level of production and sales. There would still be some sales to the prius crowd, and more power to you. but let the consumer bear the full cost of his philanthropy. Not the taxpayer. http://www.sunlightelectric.com/subsidies.php US Subsidies alone Corporate Depreciation: Modified Accelerated Cost-Recovery System (MACRS) Corporate Exemption: Residential Energy Conservation Subsidy Exclusion (Corporate) Corporate Tax Credit: Renewable Electricity Production Tax Credit Solar and Geothermal Business Energy Tax Credit Federal Grant Program: Renewable Energy Systems and Energy Efficiency Improvements Program Tribal Energy Program Grant Value-Added Producer Grant Program Federal Loan Program Energy Efficient Mortgage (EEM) Energy Star Financing and Mortgages Tax-exempt Financing for Green Buildings, Renewable Energy & Brownfield Redevelopment Personal Exemption: Residential Energy Conservation Subsidy Exclusion (Personal) Production Incentive: Conservation Security Program (CSP) Production Incentive Renewable Energy Production Incentive (REPI) Green Power Purchasing/Aggregation: Federal Government - Green Power Purchasing Goal Alternative Fuel Vehicle Incentives and Policies: U.S. Department of Energy's Clean Cities Program This is right. But what do you know? These guys have been to energy management classes. In College. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 9:43:26 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Exactly, and if you're stupid enough to let politicians get involved you'd still somehow wind up running a loss from a $25 rub 'n tug shop completely staffed by Swedish nymphomaniacs right outside the front gates of Camp Pendleton. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It doesn't matter what the product is. If you borrow and spend like a rock star, you're going to go tits up. Exactly, and if you're stupid enough to let politicians get involved you'd still somehow wind up running a loss from a $25 rub 'n tug shop completely staffed by Swedish nymphomaniacs right outside the front gates of Camp Pendleton. Exactly. Solar has a place and a future. ( my old man who is very conservative, and has a bit of cash) Just did part of his roof in solar panels. He faces Lake Michigan, gets great reflection off of the water, but more than that it was a big F-You to Wi energies, and a way to stay off of the grid if need be, and he sees what zero has done and whats coming. The technology will get better, he figures in a few years he may add a bit or change some things around with the battery bank as prices come down and tech advances. He's not doing a sell it back to them deal either. according to him he would get screwed cost wise. I'm curious to see how it all pans out. BUT, cramming it down our throats as we pay for it, and perfectly fine coal plants to be shut down is ridiculous. (for every clean coal plant we close Mexico opens up 3 and China 6 dirty ones. Asshole Obama and Leftist Agenda. The free market would solve it and implement it over time. As we run a shortage on dinosaur juice if the middle east goes up like a tinderbox or the .gov wont open up drilling on the Gazillion Gallons we have offshore, solar or something else will find a place naturally. This makes me happy to see these leach pieces of shit fail. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 9:46:25 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope, I also don't own a home or have the ability (legally or practically) to power my residence with solar. Same goes for my car. I cannot afford a 70k+ Tesla not do I have access to electrical hookups where I park. Residential solar and a Tesla are in my future plans for what it's worth (which isn't much). I like the idea of residential solar because it would mean reliable power where I plan on living. As I said, I grew up with frequent power outages. I don't like relying on anyone for anything, to include the power grid. As for the Tesla, drive one and you'll understand.  Fist off: A utility doesn't care how the electricity is generated as long as: A) it's cost competitive B) can be reliable to meet standards set by local and federal governing bodies Green energy is neither and NEVER WILL BE. We tried all this shit in the 70's. Sure the products are better, but none of it can create/produce adequate power on demand. It requires too much land that is privately held and unless you plan on doing eminent domain property transfers....it will not work for a nation this size. Utilities are not in any bed with coal. Again, We don't care how the product is produced as long as it meets the above criteria. We are regulated to provide power on demand...continually. We get fined/penalized even for some planned maintenance outages. Solar/wind.. do not provide 100% power 100% of the time. Green energy directives directly conflicts with laws and regulations set forth by the reliability portions of laws governing utilities. People advocating so called green energy are the most electrically and mechanically uneducated zombies wandering the planet. Any clue to how much power is used for growing polysilcon? Any idea how much mining is require for Lithium, Cobalt and other rare earth's? You know that there are very few turbines that can be subjected to northern climates? Hell, we just had one go down in MI thumb area last month. It's a spectacular pile of twisted scrap metal that is less than 10 years old. A 1.2MW turbine costs about $3.5 million bucks and produces at best 28% of its name plate rating. A wind turbine can not be placed: Within 5 miles of a known or occupied eagles nest Within 5 miles of a natural water way Within 3 miles of an airport or air way Near any area with protected birds, bats, or waterfowl flyways Land must not have 2% grade deviation over 100' Turbines must be places distances apart equal to/or exceeding 150% of their height They need to be near transmission lines to off load their created power Must be near distribution lines as they require power to operate This is only a short list...there are many more restriction. You want to pay 40- 50 cents a kilowatt (instead of 10-12 cents) and have power only when the sun is shinning and wind is blowing over 20mph? Go try it for a while. Turn all you shit off at night and on cloudy days...run your crap for 4 hrs...and that is motor-less equipment and only single phase application. oh...And multiply your bill by 4. That is Green Energy. Costing you all your green. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 9:50:05 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How many coal companies have gone under? How many green companies have gone under? Green energy as a baseload generation is a bad idea. Thorium salt reactors as baseload with green as stand-by generators for the grid is a much better idea. But since this is arfcom and the earth is only 6000 years old and college is for stupid idiots. hur dur lets burn puppies and kittens and soylent green for our power. Expound for Arfcom about thorium salt reactors, if you please. I have a friend who believes they are the wave of the future. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 9:50:32 AM EDT
[#49]
Hmmm
it sounds like they've milked all the government free money grants and it's time to toss the dead dried up carcass......unless they can get some more congressional gravy action. Solar was never profitable without the government [yours and my support]. Same with wind. The real profit has always been the subsidy. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 9:52:45 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fist off: A utility doesn't care how the electricity is generated as long as: A) it's cost competitive B) can be reliable to meet standards set by local and federal governing bodies Green energy is neither and NEVER WILL BE. We tried all this shit in the 70's. Sure the products are better, but none of it can create/produce adequate power on demand. It requires too much land that is privately held and unless you plan on doing eminent domain property transfers....it will not work for a nation this size. Utilities are not in any bed with coal. Again, We don't care how the product is produced as long as it meets the above criteria. We are regulated to provide power on demand...continually. We get fined/penalized even for some planned maintenance outages. Solar/wind.. do not provide 100% power 100% of the time. Green energy directives directly conflicts with laws and regulations set forth by the reliability portions of laws governing utilities. People advocating so called green energy are the most electrically and mechanically uneducated zombies wandering the planet. Any clue to how much power is used for growing polysilcon? Any idea how much mining is require for Lithium, Cobalt and other rare earth's? You know that there are very few turbines that can be subjected to northern climates? Hell, we just had one go down in MI thumb area last month. It's a spectacular pile of twisted scrap metal that is less than 10 years old. A 1.2MW turbine costs about $3.5 million bucks and produces at best 28% of its name plate rating. A wind turbine can not be placed: Within 5 miles of a known or occupied eagles nest Within 5 miles of a natural water way Within 3 miles of an airport or air way Near any area with protected birds, bats, or waterfowl flyways Land must not have 2% grade deviation over 100' Turbines must be places distances apart equal to/or exceeding 150% of their height They need to be near transmission lines to off load their created power Must be near distribution lines as they require power to operate This is only a short list...there are many more restriction. You want to pay 40- 50 cents a kilowatt (instead of 10-12 cents) and have power only when the sun is shinning and wind is blowing over 20mph? Go try it for a while. Turn all you shit off at night and on cloudy days...run your crap for 4 hrs...and that is motor-less equipment and only single phase application. oh...And multiply your bill by 4. That is Green Energy. Costing you all your green. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Nope, I also don't own a home or have the ability (legally or practically) to power my residence with solar. Same goes for my car. I cannot afford a 70k+ Tesla not do I have access to electrical hookups where I park. Residential solar and a Tesla are in my future plans for what it's worth (which isn't much). I like the idea of residential solar because it would mean reliable power where I plan on living. As I said, I grew up with frequent power outages. I don't like relying on anyone for anything, to include the power grid. As for the Tesla, drive one and you'll understand.
Fist off: A utility doesn't care how the electricity is generated as long as: A) it's cost competitive B) can be reliable to meet standards set by local and federal governing bodies Green energy is neither and NEVER WILL BE. We tried all this shit in the 70's. Sure the products are better, but none of it can create/produce adequate power on demand. It requires too much land that is privately held and unless you plan on doing eminent domain property transfers....it will not work for a nation this size. Utilities are not in any bed with coal. Again, We don't care how the product is produced as long as it meets the above criteria. We are regulated to provide power on demand...continually. We get fined/penalized even for some planned maintenance outages. Solar/wind.. do not provide 100% power 100% of the time. Green energy directives directly conflicts with laws and regulations set forth by the reliability portions of laws governing utilities. People advocating so called green energy are the most electrically and mechanically uneducated zombies wandering the planet. Any clue to how much power is used for growing polysilcon? Any idea how much mining is require for Lithium, Cobalt and other rare earth's? You know that there are very few turbines that can be subjected to northern climates? Hell, we just had one go down in MI thumb area last month. It's a spectacular pile of twisted scrap metal that is less than 10 years old. A 1.2MW turbine costs about $3.5 million bucks and produces at best 28% of its name plate rating. A wind turbine can not be placed: Within 5 miles of a known or occupied eagles nest Within 5 miles of a natural water way Within 3 miles of an airport or air way Near any area with protected birds, bats, or waterfowl flyways Land must not have 2% grade deviation over 100' Turbines must be places distances apart equal to/or exceeding 150% of their height They need to be near transmission lines to off load their created power Must be near distribution lines as they require power to operate This is only a short list...there are many more restriction. You want to pay 40- 50 cents a kilowatt (instead of 10-12 cents) and have power only when the sun is shinning and wind is blowing over 20mph? Go try it for a while. Turn all you shit off at night and on cloudy days...run your crap for 4 hrs...and that is motor-less equipment and only single phase application. oh...And multiply your bill by 4. That is Green Energy. Costing you all your green. This guy sums it up very well. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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