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Link Posted: 1/22/2006 3:24:28 AM EDT
[#1]
US Army and its Phillipino counterparts in Bataan/Corregidor comes to mind.

Link Posted: 1/22/2006 4:46:14 AM EDT
[#2]
british at Rorkes Drift, Natal SA, 1879, 120 men fought off 5k zulus for 2 days losing only 20 or so men.


1965 or 66, can't remember the hill, but 18 marines led by ssgt. Jimmy Howard held off 450 vietnamise for 30 hours till they could get reenforcments to them, three marines were killed, all the rest were wounded and Howard won the CMOH, and all in the platoon were awarded silver star and purple hearts.

MLW>"<
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 4:55:49 AM EDT
[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
I REALLY doubt that the Spartans were fighting for a government system similar to ours.....



Foundation of what rome became and then we based are system off rome



The Roman military sure was based on the Spartans, and in their slave based economy and such there are similarities, but the Spartan government was not even close to either Athenian Democracy or Roman Republican governments.



Your probably right, im not a historian on acient goverments i just know that they somehow setup their goverment in a way and we based ours off that.




Actually, they were fighting for the Atenians at the time.  So, yes, they were fighting for what would be our base of government.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 5:07:16 AM EDT
[#4]
Francisco's Last (Fruit) Stand

Link Posted: 1/22/2006 5:17:55 AM EDT
[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
custer.


russians at stalingrad.



Sorry. In my book, fighting for the prerogatives of a homegrown homicidal arbitrary dictatorship over the claims of a foreign homicidal arbitrary dictatorship is indistinguishable from dying in an effort to ensure that an indigenous strain of TB infects people, rather than some exotic foreign strain brought home by overseas vacationers.

There are two categories of adherents to the Russian Soviet system: true believers, and cynical seekers after advantage. Both were ready to sacrifice humanity on the altar of ideology. Every adherent of each avenue deserves to be hounded to the ends of the earth, exposed, humiliated, tortured, and killed. It is one thing to be wrong; it is quite another to be messianic, violent, intolerant, and wrong. Communists - even the most feckless Gauloise-smoking cafe' Communist - should die a terrifying public death. Smirking from a safe distance, under cover of American ICBMs, at the "paranoia" of anticommunists is disgusting.

Death to statists, and piss on their legacies, whatever fine things may be commingled with their grovelings.




Except that soldiers are rarely consciously fighting for ideologies.  They fight for the man standing next to them and to not be thought cowards.  90% of the men who died in horrible conditions on the battlefields of the Eastern Front had no clue what was going on politically and those that knew either had a stake in winning or had no hope of being able to change what was going on.  Making the best of a terrible situation.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 5:38:06 AM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 5:40:30 AM EDT
[#7]
Isandlwana.
Rorke's Drift.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 5:40:39 AM EDT
[#8]
 The maginot line.  
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 5:44:29 AM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 5:53:40 AM EDT
[#10]
Michael Whittmann at Villers Bocage.

The Battle of Villers-Bocage (June 13, 1944) was an unusual clash between the British and Germans in northern France during World War II.

Early on June 13th, a British force approached the town of Villers-Bocage from the north-west. The task force consisted of two battalions - one of armor and the other of motorized infantry, both of the 7th Armoured Division. The already-famous German tank commander Michael Wittmann had a small force of six tanks nearby. In one of the more agressive small-unit actions of the war, he charged his vehicle into the British column, splitting it and then engaging the British forces at very short range before passing along and across the British line into the village. The other tanks of his unit moved up and the British column suffered heavy losses.

The British vehicle losses were heavy; more importantly, they did not follow up on their opportunity and lost a chance to take Caen early in the Normandy campaign.


Tiger Ace
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 5:54:22 AM EDT
[#11]
Jews in Warsaw Ghetto.  With some stolen firearms, Molotov cocktails, and courage, they held off the Germans for a time period longer than the Polish Army originally did.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 6:15:37 AM EDT
[#12]

Quoted:
Wake Island



That was going to be mine.

Wake island proved that a small force of very deturmined defenders could make a vastly superior force pay dearly to yake a chunk of land.

It was also the battle in which the pilot whos thought to have put the fatal shots into the USS Arizona was killed.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 6:23:13 AM EDT
[#13]
BASTOGNE
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 6:28:31 AM EDT
[#14]
There is a very good book- really good if you consider how short and easily readable it is- on this very subject.

Last Stand!: Famous Battles Against All Odds by Bryan Perrett

Link Posted: 1/22/2006 6:35:53 AM EDT
[#15]
Oct 2 1918  Arognne Forest
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 6:39:54 AM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:
the polish horse calvary in WWII against the german panzers



Never happened.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 8:14:16 AM EDT
[#17]
Couple ya'll forgot...

The Montagyards defending Pleiku during the North Vietnamese invasion in '75

The FFL and Colonial Paras at Dien Bien Phu

and it doesn't count as a last stand if you win, so Bastogne and Rourk's Drift don't count
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 8:21:16 AM EDT
[#18]
Waco...
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 9:10:53 AM EDT
[#19]

Quoted:
british at Rorkes Drift, Natal SA, 1879, 120 men fought off 5k zulus for 2 days losing only 20 or so men.


1965 or 66, can't remember the hill, but 18 marines led by ssgt. Jimmy Howard held off 450 vietnamise for 30 hours till they could get reenforcments to them, three marines were killed, all the rest were wounded and Howard won the CMOH, and all in the platoon were awarded silver star and purple hearts.

MLW>"<



Something like that. A hero, for sure.

Medal of Honor

CMOH Viet Nam


A better read of G Sgt Jimmie Howard's heroism


HOWARD, JIMMIE E.



Rank and organization: Gunnery Sergeant (then S/Sgt.) U.S. Marine Corps, Company C, 1st Reconnaissance Battalion, 1st Marine Division. Place and date: Republic of Vietnam, 16 June 1966. Entered service at: Burlington, Iowa. Born: 27 July 1929, Burlington, Iowa. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his own life above and beyond the call of duty. G/Sgt. Howard and his 18-man platoon were occupying an observation post deep within enemy-controlled territory. Shortly after midnight a Viet Cong force of estimated battalion size approached the marines' position and launched a vicious attack with small arms, automatic weapons, and mortar fire. Reacting swiftly and fearlessly in the face of the overwhelming odds, G/Sgt. Howard skillfully organized his small but determined force into a tight perimeter defense and calmly moved from position to position to direct his men's fire. Throughout the night, during assault after assault, his courageous example and firm leadership inspired and motivated his men to withstand the unrelenting fury of the hostile fire in the seemingly hopeless situation. He constantly shouted encouragement to his men and exhibited imagination and resourcefulness in directing their return fire. When fragments of an exploding enemy grenade wounded him severely and prevented him from moving his legs, he distributed his ammunition to the remaining members of his platoon and proceeded to maintain radio communications and direct air strikes on the enemy with uncanny accuracy. At dawn, despite the fact that 5 men were killed and all but 1 wounded, his beleaguered platoon was still in command of its position. When evacuation helicopters approached his position, G/Sgt. Howard warned them away and called for additional air strikes and directed devastating small-arms fire and air strikes against enemy automatic weapons positions in order to make the landing zone as secure as possible. Through his extraordinary courage and resolute fighting spirit, G/Sgt. Howard was largely responsible for preventing the loss of his entire platoon. His valiant leadership and courageous fighting spirit served to inspire the men of his platoon to heroic endeavor in the face of overwhelming odds, and reflect the highest credit upon G/Sgt. Howard, the Marine Corps, and the U.S. Naval Service.

Link Posted: 1/22/2006 9:46:20 AM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 9:54:13 AM EDT
[#21]
The chosen frozen, Inchon Korea.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 9:57:38 AM EDT
[#22]
Surprised no one jumped on this one yet...


Chuck Norris vs. Bruce Lee in the “Way of the Dragon”

I've never been the same since seeing my long-time idol get schooled like that.  

The Showdown

Link Posted: 1/22/2006 10:05:46 AM EDT
[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There are two categories of adherents to the Russian Soviet system: true believers, and cynical seekers after advantage. Every adherent of each avenue deserves to be hounded to the ends of the earth, exposed, humiliated, tortured, and killed. It is one thing to be wrong; it is quite another to be messianic, violent, intolerant, and wrong. Communists - even the most feckless Gauloise-smoking cafe' Communist - should die a terrifying public death. Smirking from a safe distance, under cover of American ICBMs, at the "paranoia" of anticommunists is disgusting.

Death to statists, and piss on their legacies, whatever fine things may be commingled with their grovelings.


Interesting.



Yea, but least he's not wrong.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 10:28:42 AM EDT
[#24]
BATTLE OF STALINGRAD
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 10:32:49 AM EDT
[#25]
I'm going to say that any stand that is ones last probably isn't great.  Dying honorably never won the war.

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 10:51:26 AM EDT
[#26]
tag
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 10:52:29 AM EDT
[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
custer.


russians at stalingrad.



Custer was an incompetent, arrogant fool who got his command killed for nothing.  He didn't make a "stand", he was simply overwhelmed.



Custer was neither incompent nor a fool . Arrogant as hell probably . KEEP in mind that the Indians had been evading the US army for years and could tear down down and move whole villages at a moments notice and simply melt away .

This is why he refused the Gatling guns .  They never could of kept up .

Faulty intelligence Of course is to blame also plus the Indians changing tactics and actually staying to fight as opposed to running away as in the past .  

Both of Custers subordinates were to some degree incompetent espically Reno .
His retreat  from his wooded position was quickly turned in to a ROUT .

The fact that neither Reno nor Benteen cared for Custer only sealed his fate .
Benteen was supposed to reinforce Custer not Renos's command .

If Custer is so bad then why does he have so many things named after him ???
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 10:56:57 AM EDT
[#28]
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 11:01:12 AM EDT
[#29]
You do know we have a History forum, right?
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 11:04:36 AM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 11:31:00 AM EDT
[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
custer.


russians at stalingrad.



Custer was an incompetent, arrogant fool who got his command killed for nothing.  He didn't make a "stand", he was simply overwhelmed.



+1

Custer put his command in a place where it was and lost cohesion within minutes of contact if not immediately… the fight broke up in to clusters of troops that were overwhelmed in running fights.

Contrary to the modern perception repeating rifle had little effect on the fight if the Indians had only been armed with clubs, bows, and spears (as many were) the results would have likely been the same. Second the Indians did not have nearly as many repeaters as people think they did and probably had little ammo for the ones they did have that actually worked.

BTW the other half of Custer’s command got to a defensible position and held the Indians off and survived. The trapdoor and it much longer range was a better weapon for the terrain verses repeating rifles shooting pistol cartridges UNLESS you managed to put you command in to a contact range fight as Custer did.

If Custer had not split his command and done adequate scouting and then listen to his scouts and used his weapons to their advantage the Indians would have been badly shot up if they had attacked.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 12:23:37 PM EDT
[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Masada


I didn't realize that everybody killing themselves before the actual fight qualified as a "last stand."


[Life Of Brian]

"We are the Judean People's Front crack suicide squad! Suicide squad, attack!"

[/Life Of Brian]


Link Posted: 1/22/2006 1:01:27 PM EDT
[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The Roman military sure was based on the Spartans...



The Roman military was not 'based on the Spartans'.  The early Roman hoplite formations were copied from the Etruscans, and by 400BC or so, they started to go to that oh-so-Roman Manipular Legion.



All professional, full time militaries (especially those with a crimson fetish) owe something to the Spartans.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 1:03:08 PM EDT
[#34]
the defeat of Al Gore in the Presidential election of 2000.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 1:05:02 PM EDT
[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
I REALLY doubt that the Spartans were fighting for a government system similar to ours.....



Foundation of what rome became and then we based are system off rome



The Roman military sure was based on the Spartans, and in their slave based economy and such there are similarities, but the Spartan government was not even close to either Athenian Democracy or Roman Republican governments.



Your probably right, im not a historian on acient goverments i just know that they somehow setup their goverment in a way and we based ours off that.




Actually, they were fighting for the Atenians at the time.  So, yes, they were fighting for what would be our base of government.



Fighting ALONGSIDE the Athenians is a different matter. The Spartans did not submit to the command of the other Hellenes present at the "hot gates."
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 1:06:46 PM EDT
[#36]

Quoted:
the defeat of Al Gore in the Presidential election of 2000.



Great don’t equal pathetic and sniveling.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 2:01:03 PM EDT
[#37]

Quoted:
I'm going to say that any stand that is ones last probably isn't great.  Dying honorably never won the war.

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."



You are mistaken maybe the war isnt won directly at that battle but it forces the enemy to use up its recources, time and men while they could be destroying a force that could be forming up to  fight the war later. Maybe that extra little time while the enemy is tied up handling a few defenders could just be enough for other forces to plan their move on the opposing force.  

Plus if you kill so many of the attackers that victory is bitter sweet and are unable to be effective in battle anymore.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 2:06:02 PM EDT
[#38]

Quoted:
After numerous things ive seen about last stands recently what do you guys think are some of the most famous and why?

Personally these are what i think are.

Black Hawk Down - Gordon and Shugart-Becase they didnt do it for some politican or a order but    to save the men downed in the chopper and seriously out numbered.

The Spartans at Thermaplae-300 against 200000 how is it not one of the geatest?Kill 20000 Plus they fought for a similar goverment structure we have today.

The Alamo-They were fighting for what they believed in and gave the mexicans one hell of a time  in trying to take it.

The German Reichstag- Maybe these guys wernt fighting for what was right but they still put up one hell of a fight for what they blieved in.




Thermopolaye was it. My leg:
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 2:43:57 PM EDT
[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
The Roman military sure was based on the Spartans...



The Roman military was not 'based on the Spartans'.  The early Roman hoplite formations were copied from the Etruscans, and by 400BC or so, they started to go to that oh-so-Roman Manipular Legion.



All professional, full time militaries (especially those with a crimson fetish) owe something to the Spartans.



But the Roman army was not a 'professional' or full-time army until the Marian Reforms of 107 BC. Also, the Spartans did not have a 'professional army' in the modern sense (as the Romans had), they had a 'warrior class'.

Sure, the Romans went nuts for Greek culture, but the Roman army was a uniquely Roman invention that had no real parallel until modern times.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 5:12:40 PM EDT
[#40]
Chunuk Bair

WWI , Turkey, New Zealand Infantry Brigade (Supported by others)
Took the Hill, Held the Hill for almost 2 days until relieved by the British. The British were promptly thrown off the Hill by the enemy.

“Of the 760 men of the Wellington Regiment who had advanced on Chunuk Bair a mere 70 unwounded or slightly wounded came down the hill again.” The Auckland regiment fared worse, but was 'knocked' out of the battle early

“Just before the order for the Wellingtons to advance the Auckland Regiment had gone forward in daylight. Three hundred men died in the first hundred metres as they advanced into a maelstrom of Turkish fire and the advance was stopped in its tracks. Notwithstanding, the commanding brigadier, Johnston, ordered the Wellingtons forward. Malone refused to obey the order.  He was not going to lead his men into a death trap.  This was an incredibly courageous act.  By all the rules of war Johnston could have taken out his revolver and shot Malone on the spot.  But Malone was adamant.  He would not allow his men to be slaughtered.  Mercifully Johnston was over-ruled, and the advance resumed only under cover of darkness.  “


Wikipedia
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 5:15:45 PM EDT
[#41]
Chaimberlain on Little Roundtop.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 5:18:45 PM EDT
[#42]
Did anyone vote Xenophon and the march of the ten thousand????
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 5:19:18 PM EDT
[#43]
I have a big vote for the defense of the Golan Heights during the Yon Kippur war by a handful of Israeli tanks fighting for days straight.  If their position had been overrun there literally would have been no more Israel - in addition this would have triggered the nuking of Damascus and Cairo, as well as any other cities the Israelis felt like taking down with them.  As it was they took huge casualties (proportionally) and still managed to ruin I think 500+ Arab tanks.  They turned a valley with no name into The Valley of Tears.

See the book "The Eve of Destruction."

Link Posted: 1/22/2006 5:25:15 PM EDT
[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:
custer.


russians at stalingrad.



Custer was an incompetent, arrogant fool who got his command killed for nothing.  He didn't make a "stand", he was simply overwhelmed.



I agree. It wasnt like he had to hold that position at all costs to save the day. What a waste of lives over pride.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 5:28:57 PM EDT
[#45]

Quoted:
oh and also: bastogne



I don't see this as a last stand. It was a battle in a war. If the US Forces lost Bastogne is wasn't the end for them. It may have been a big blow to our forces.

The way I understand a "Last Stand" would of been something like Custer at Little Big Horn.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 5:40:37 PM EDT
[#46]
Task Unit 77.4.3 (aka "Taffy 3") during the battle off (not of) Samar.  Part of the battle of Leyte Gulf (Phillipines) in October, 1944.  A handfull of US destroyers and destroyer escorts went head-to-head with the biggest battleships and cruisers in the Imperial Japanese Navy.  The destroyer screen held long enough for the carriers to reposition and launch their aircraft.  

Wiki
The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 5:53:37 PM EDT
[#47]

Quoted:
I'm going to say that any stand that is ones last probably isn't great.  Dying honorably never won the war.

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."




War isn't always about two equally sized and matched forces meeting at a predetermined place and time and fighting until one side is destroyed or surrenders - even when this was the standard practice for a battle. Small units run into larger, better armed ones. Ambushes happen. Intelligence fails and ill prepared men are sent to meet a bigger and stronger enemy force.

It is rare that one battle determines who wins or loses a war. However, if the men in a battle are out numbered, out gunned, out equipped, etc. and still stand and fight (and in doing so take massive casualties); it tends to inspire future generations of warriors.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 6:04:25 PM EDT
[#48]
Sgt_AR and his dolls holding off the mods.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 6:08:06 PM EDT
[#49]
The Alamo
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 6:08:32 PM EDT
[#50]

Quoted:
Sgt_AR and his dolls holding off the mods.



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