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Link Posted: 11/25/2014 12:01:25 PM EDT
No if it was a 9mm he would have had better shot placement and ended the threat sooner. And we all know glorious glock 19 9mm is best mm.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 12:06:51 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Hard_Rock:


This is why I detest "tap, rack, bang". Wilson had the gun with his strong hand and was fending off Brown with the other. How you gonna do a clearance drill with the bad guy holding the gun and you having only one hand to use with the gun? SIG for the win!
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Originally Posted By Hard_Rock:
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
No shot two times and no clearance drill? Fail.


This is why I detest "tap, rack, bang". Wilson had the gun with his strong hand and was fending off Brown with the other. How you gonna do a clearance drill with the bad guy holding the gun and you having only one hand to use with the gun? SIG for the win!


Tap, rack, ready is still perfectly viable if there's not a 200 lbs. guy on top of you punching you in the jaw.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 12:20:54 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Lomshek:


Or you could just use a weapon mounted light.

Whatever the cause I wonder if the citizens of Ferguson are glad they saved money by not having dash cams at the least.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
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Originally Posted By Lomshek:
Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Originally Posted By m193:
Let's all go buy Sigs today.




Nah. But if someone started cranking these out by next week they could sell a shit load of them here

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/ChrisV196/ARF%20junk/glock-upright_zpsm5noqflm.jpg


Or you could just use a weapon mounted light.

Whatever the cause I wonder if the citizens of Ferguson are glad they saved money by not having dash cams at the least.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile



You can push a Glock with a light mounted out of battery.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 12:47:49 PM EDT
This thread sure brought a bunch of idiots out of the woodwork.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 12:48:34 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Bigfeet:

Immediate action drill.

Tap, rack, bang. Rinse and repeat if firearm doesn't go bang.


Bigfeet
View Quote


You know how I know you live in a fantasy land?
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 12:52:34 PM EDT
wait so DA/SA are now preferred?
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 12:54:46 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By xylo:

I don't think it should be dismissed out of hand. Revolvers are more reliable than autos.
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Originally Posted By xylo:
Originally Posted By backbencher:
So the lesson here is we should all carry revolvers.

I don't think it should be dismissed out of hand. Revolvers are more reliable than autos.



Please update your calendar to 2014...
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 12:56:58 PM EDT
transparent thread is transparent.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 12:57:05 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Finslayer83:
wait so DA/SA are now preferred?
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Or DAO or LEM or ...
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 12:58:51 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By usnpjs:

I got 2 of them, and a P09, you chose well
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Originally Posted By usnpjs:
Originally Posted By neverenough86:
I may or may not have just grabbed a CZ75 P07 off buds after reading this thread.

I got 2 of them, and a P09, you chose well

I got one from buds last week. Best handgun ever, and what a fucking price.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:00:54 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Finslayer83:
wait so DA/SA are now preferred?
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I know.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:00:57 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By m193:
Let's all go buy Sigs today.

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I'm game.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:07:29 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Finslayer83:
wait so DA/SA are now preferred?
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It does seem to have made a difference in this instance.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:09:46 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Bigfeet:

Immediate action drill.

Tap, rack, bang. Rinse and repeat if firearm doesn't go bang.


Bigfeet
View Quote


And how do you do that while seated in a vehicle with your off hand pushing off a guy much larger than yourself trying to grab your gun.

Ideally he and everyone else would be trained to tap the magazine on a solid surface of the vehicle, or his knee, then use the rear sight to snag on something and rack the slide with one hand, but then I think we're asking for too much.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:11:57 PM EDT
Irregardless of beans versus no beans - when the gj heard this, how they hell can the officer be guilty. Erick holder needs to have the congress give him a colonoscopy - as he is the biggest criminal involved in this case. Only problem is the light will shine on Obama in there.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:13:44 PM EDT
Real lesson is to never let someone get their hands on your gun. If you are hands on with someone, only pull it if you have them controlled enough that you and draw and shoot before they can grab it
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:15:15 PM EDT
Think about this scenario before selling out on a double strike capability:

My primary firearm fails to fire due to an out of battery slide. The offender wrestles the gun from my grip and pulls the trigger. Do you still want that double strike capability? This is why we carry secondary weapons in the event of a primary failure.

There truly are two sides to every coin.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:16:52 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By criio1:
And that's why I want a second strike option on my pistol.
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In case you're policing in the hood and let a perp trap you in a car? Sounds as minute of a chance of happening as even needing a gun at all as a non-leo civvie.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:17:21 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Finslayer83:
wait so DA/SA are now preferred?
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The hive mind is schizophrenic.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:17:26 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By evnash:
Real lesson is to never let someone get their hands on your gun. If you are hands on with someone, only pull it if you have them controlled enough that you and draw and shoot before they can grab it
View Quote


So Wilson should have just let himself get knocked out because he was too close for missiles and had trouble switching to guns?

I'd say the real lesson here is to learn to shoot through the door when someone is that close.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:19:52 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By camille:

In case you're policing in the hood and let a perp trap you in a car? Sounds as minute of a chance of happening as even needing a gun at all as a non-leo civvie.
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Originally Posted By camille:
Originally Posted By criio1:
And that's why I want a second strike option on my pistol.

In case you're policing in the hood and let a perp trap you in a car? Sounds as minute of a chance of happening as even needing a gun at all as a non-leo civvie.


Getting car jacked is really similar to this situation. Everyone might think they are bad ass and hyper aware, but if someone really wants your car enough, they're going to break the window and come after you, and if you draw, they're going to try to grab your gun. This is a completely realistic self defense scenario that any CCWer should think about and train for.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:20:17 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Finslayer83:
wait so DA/SA are now preferred?
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Always has been.

Where have you been hiding?
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:20:20 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By camille:

In case you're policing in the hood and let a perp trap you in a car? Sounds as minute of a chance of happening as even needing a gun at all as a non-leo civvie.
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Originally Posted By camille:
Originally Posted By criio1:
And that's why I want a second strike option on my pistol.

In case you're policing in the hood and let a perp trap you in a car? Sounds as minute of a chance of happening as even needing a gun at all as a non-leo civvie.


How do you know he is not a LEO?
How do you know this very incident hasn't happened in the past, LEO or not?
Why can't he have his personal preference?
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:21:07 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By wtturn:

The hive mind is schizophrenic.
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Originally Posted By wtturn:
Originally Posted By Finslayer83:
wait so DA/SA are now preferred?

The hive mind is schizophrenic.


Each different self defense encounter leads to people rethinking their weapon choice.

How many people completely swore off anything with a grip safety after reading what happened to Blitz308?
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:24:14 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Daytona955i:


Getting car jacked is really similar to this situation. Everyone might think they are bad ass and hyper aware, but if someone really wants your car enough, they're going to break the window and come after you, and if you draw, they're going to try to grab your gun. This is a completely realistic self defense scenario that any CCWer should think about and train for.
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Originally Posted By Daytona955i:
Originally Posted By camille:
Originally Posted By criio1:
And that's why I want a second strike option on my pistol.

In case you're policing in the hood and let a perp trap you in a car? Sounds as minute of a chance of happening as even needing a gun at all as a non-leo civvie.


Getting car jacked is really similar to this situation. Everyone might think they are bad ass and hyper aware, but if someone really wants your car enough, they're going to break the window and come after you, and if you draw, they're going to try to grab your gun. This is a completely realistic self defense scenario that any CCWer should think about and train for.

My point is, switching to DA kind of gun because of the exceeeeedingly rare instance of a car jacking, one which you have to fight off a perp to even draw, seems kinda silly to me.

Fight with what you train. As simple as that. Train with a blade in close quarters or just hand to hand. Swapping out a tool on the .000000000000001% of it happening seems stupid and rash.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:24:56 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By RamSet:
Well, you might be able force a Glock slide into battery (assuming use of both hands) and get a shot off--even with the bad guy leaning on the gun. Obviously the slide would not cycle in this situation because you'd be holding it shut. This has even been taught in some classes. Not sure how it would go with a hammer fired gun like a classic Sig.

I'll take Glock for the win here.
View Quote


It seems SIG won this one in real life.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:25:50 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
No shot two times and no clearance drill? Fail.
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Do a clearance drill with a 290 lb dude wrestling for your gun.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:26:15 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Daytona955i:


Each different self defense encounter leads to people rethinking their weapon choice.

How many people completely swore off anything with a grip safety after reading what happened to Blitz308?
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Originally Posted By Daytona955i:
Originally Posted By wtturn:
Originally Posted By Finslayer83:
wait so DA/SA are now preferred?

The hive mind is schizophrenic.


Each different self defense encounter leads to people rethinking their weapon choice.

How many people completely swore off anything with a grip safety after reading what happened to Blitz308?

Blitz308 states he carries a 1911 STILL from what I saw on the last page or so. And a G19 at other times. I can't find the thread now that was a few days ago I started reading and skipped to the end

So even then, the victim still carries a Wilson Combat 1911 with grip safety.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:28:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:29:35 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By jestice75:

I got one from buds last week. Best handgun ever, and what a fucking price.
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Originally Posted By jestice75:
Originally Posted By usnpjs:
Originally Posted By neverenough86:
I may or may not have just grabbed a CZ75 P07 off buds after reading this thread.

I got 2 of them, and a P09, you chose well

I got one from buds last week. Best handgun ever, and what a fucking price.



I know what I want for Christmas now.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:30:42 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By camille:

My point is, switching to DA kind of gun because of the exceeeeedingly rare instance of a car jacking, one which you have to fight off a perp to even draw, seems kinda silly to me.

Fight with what you train. As simple as that. Train with a blade in close quarters or just hand to hand. Swapping out a tool on the .000000000000001% of it happening seems stupid and rash.
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Originally Posted By camille:
Originally Posted By Daytona955i:
Originally Posted By camille:
Originally Posted By criio1:
And that's why I want a second strike option on my pistol.

In case you're policing in the hood and let a perp trap you in a car? Sounds as minute of a chance of happening as even needing a gun at all as a non-leo civvie.


Getting car jacked is really similar to this situation. Everyone might think they are bad ass and hyper aware, but if someone really wants your car enough, they're going to break the window and come after you, and if you draw, they're going to try to grab your gun. This is a completely realistic self defense scenario that any CCWer should think about and train for.

My point is, switching to DA kind of gun because of the exceeeeedingly rare instance of a car jacking, one which you have to fight off a perp to even draw, seems kinda silly to me.

Fight with what you train. As simple as that. Train with a blade in close quarters or just hand to hand. Swapping out a tool on the .000000000000001% of it happening seems stupid and rash.


I'm still happy with my striker fired CCW, even though I have been looking at a P07 lately just because I want one.

I totally get your point, and I don't disagree with you, but we're already carrying guns everywhere we go because of the exceedingly rare instance of having to use a gun to defend oneself, so it is always good to question these kinds of things and consider what might happen if that circumstance might happen to you.

Being prepared for likely scenarios is just smart. I have a fire extinguisher near my stove at home, and I carry a gun and practice drawing it while seated in the driver seat. None of that seems stupid to me.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:32:51 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By DerSchutze:
Think about this scenario before selling out on a double strike capability:

My primary firearm fails to fire due to an out of battery slide. The offender wrestles the gun from my grip and pulls the trigger. Do you still want that double strike capability? This is why we carry secondary weapons in the event of a primary failure.

There truly are two sides to every coin.
View Quote



Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:33:39 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By camille:

Blitz308 states he carries a 1911 STILL from what I saw on the last page or so. And a G19 at other times. I can't find the thread now that was a few days ago I started reading and skipped to the end

So even then, the victim still carries a Wilson Combat 1911 with grip safety.
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Originally Posted By camille:
Originally Posted By Daytona955i:
Originally Posted By wtturn:
Originally Posted By Finslayer83:
wait so DA/SA are now preferred?

The hive mind is schizophrenic.


Each different self defense encounter leads to people rethinking their weapon choice.

How many people completely swore off anything with a grip safety after reading what happened to Blitz308?

Blitz308 states he carries a 1911 STILL from what I saw on the last page or so. And a G19 at other times. I can't find the thread now that was a few days ago I started reading and skipped to the end

So even then, the victim still carries a Wilson Combat 1911 with grip safety.


I know he does, but many others took a different lesson from his story, even right in that thread, and definitely in subsequent conversations.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:34:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2014 1:36:16 PM EDT by Ragin_Cajun]
He was extraordinarily lucky that the round fired on subsequent attempts to fire; that's not common and not worth the halfassness of DA/SA.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:34:18 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By DonS:


It seems SIG won this one in real life.
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Originally Posted By DonS:
Originally Posted By RamSet:
Well, you might be able force a Glock slide into battery (assuming use of both hands) and get a shot off--even with the bad guy leaning on the gun. Obviously the slide would not cycle in this situation because you'd be holding it shut. This has even been taught in some classes. Not sure how it would go with a hammer fired gun like a classic Sig.

I'll take Glock for the win here.


It seems SIG won this one in real life.




But his Glock is better !1!!1
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:36:47 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Daytona955i:


Each different self defense encounter leads to people rethinking their weapon choice.

How many people completely swore off anything with a grip safety after reading what happened to Blitz308?
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Originally Posted By Daytona955i:
Originally Posted By wtturn:
Originally Posted By Finslayer83:
wait so DA/SA are now preferred?

The hive mind is schizophrenic.


Each different self defense encounter leads to people rethinking their weapon choice.

How many people completely swore off anything with a grip safety after reading what happened to Blitz308?
Any link to the thread?
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:40:13 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Ragin_Cajun:
He was extraordinarily lucky that the round fired on subsequent attempts to fire; that's not common and not worth the halfassness of DA/SA.
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He was clicking on a gun that was out of battery. It fired when he tried it again when it was in battery.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:40:42 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By forker:
Any link to the thread?
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Originally Posted By forker:
Originally Posted By Daytona955i:
Originally Posted By wtturn:
Originally Posted By Finslayer83:
wait so DA/SA are now preferred?

The hive mind is schizophrenic.


Each different self defense encounter leads to people rethinking their weapon choice.

How many people completely swore off anything with a grip safety after reading what happened to Blitz308?
Any link to the thread?


Still an active thread:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/988015_My_CCW_Shooting_AAR__Now_with_Moar_Graphic_Pics_on_pg_29_and_30.html
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:41:04 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Bigfeet:

Immediate action drill.

Tap, rack, bang. Rinse and repeat if firearm doesn't go bang.


Bigfeet
View Quote






There's this thing outside of YouTube videos and your Mom's basement called "Real Life."

You should try it sometime.


Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:44:32 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Ragin_Cajun:
He was extraordinarily lucky that the round fired on subsequent attempts to fire; that's not common and not worth the halfassness of DA/SA.
View Quote


It is common for out of battery situations, but I know what you mean. It could have been a hard primer or a round without powder or any of the dozens of reasons a gun won't fire, which is why immediate action drills exist. Solves (most) problems the same way.

However, with a DA gun, it is much quicker to just pull the trigger again if it is out of battery or if a second strike will actually set off the primer. He may not have been able to pull the gun away from Brown's hands in order to rack the slide. In which case, much better to just keep pulling the trigger than to continue to try to wrestle it away.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:46:56 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Daytona955i:

Each different self defense encounter leads to people rethinking their weapon choice.
View Quote


Which is silly in almost every case, including this one.

Training>Equipment

Lesson here should be "I should really get some combatives/retention training".

YMMV. I know the keyboard warriors find it a lot more fun to argue equipment, so have at it.



Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:49:02 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Daytona955i:
Originally Posted By forker:
Originally Posted By Daytona955i:
Originally Posted By wtturn:
Originally Posted By Finslayer83:
wait so DA/SA are now preferred?

The hive mind is schizophrenic.


Each different self defense encounter leads to people rethinking their weapon choice.

How many people completely swore off anything with a grip safety after reading what happened to Blitz308?
Any link to the thread?


Still an active thread:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/988015_My_CCW_Shooting_AAR__Now_with_Moar_Graphic_Pics_on_pg_29_and_30.html
Gracias.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:52:05 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 74novaman:


Which is silly in almost every case, including this one.

Training>Equipment

Lesson here should be "I should really get some combatives/retention training".

YMMV. I know the keyboard warriors find it a lot more fun to argue equipment, so have at it.



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Originally Posted By 74novaman:
Originally Posted By Daytona955i:

Each different self defense encounter leads to people rethinking their weapon choice.


Which is silly in almost every case, including this one.

Training>Equipment

Lesson here should be "I should really get some combatives/retention training".

YMMV. I know the keyboard warriors find it a lot more fun to argue equipment, so have at it.





I agree, but you know how most people are.

Training is hard work and energy.

Equipment means buying a new gun.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:53:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2014 2:01:13 PM EDT by _DR]
Something like A Luger would have worked great in this situation. No cylinder, no slide, a hand on the top of the gun is not going to keep it out of battery or stop it from firing.

Those Germans had something there.






Someone needs to make a good double stack luger reproduction.

Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:56:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2014 2:14:21 PM EDT by thatguywiththeak]
I just found out the asshole that I bought my sig 229 sas from stripped 2 of the grip screw holes, tried to fix them with thread repair compound, and neglected to tell me about it when he sold it to me.




E2 grips for now and probably back to sig as a long term fix. Significantly more costly than I thought I had snagged it for.




I question why sig didnt use bushings that could be replaced like on the 226 though.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 2:06:02 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By thatguywiththeak:
I just found out the asshole that I bought my sig 229 sas from stripped 2 of the grip screw holes, tried to fix them with thread repair compound, and neglected to tell me about it when he sold it to me.




E2 grips for now and probably back to sig as a long term fix. Significantly more costly than I thought I had snagged it for.
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Was he a Silver Back Gorrilla ?

Not an easy thing to do unless u work hard at fucking it up.

Link Posted: 11/25/2014 2:10:10 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By thatguywiththeak:
I just found out the asshole that I bought my sig 229 sas from stripped 2 of the grip screw holes, tried to fix them with thread repair compound, and neglected to tell me about it when he sold it to me.




E2 grips for now and probably back to sig as a long term fix. Significantly more costly than I thought I had snagged it for.
View Quote



Tap a size up?
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 2:11:12 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Kokopelli_AR:


It's not designed that way. It's just shitty Croatian engineering that Springfield has decided to leverage to appeal to gun store commandos.
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Originally Posted By Kokopelli_AR:
Originally Posted By chadjetlag:

Springfield XD extended recoil spring is designed to prevent an "out if battery" situation if muzzle is pressed into something. (Chadjetlag pokes glock fanboys where it is tender)


It's not designed that way. It's just shitty Croatian engineering that Springfield has decided to leverage to appeal to gun store commandos.


I thought the purpose of such a thing was so that the gun didn't go out of battery for contact shots to a political dissident's head.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 2:15:35 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By jestice75:

I got one from buds last week. Best handgun ever, and what a fucking price.
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Originally Posted By jestice75:
Originally Posted By usnpjs:
Originally Posted By neverenough86:
I may or may not have just grabbed a CZ75 P07 off buds after reading this thread.

I got 2 of them, and a P09, you chose well

I got one from buds last week. Best handgun ever, and what a fucking price.


Is this going to be a P07 or a DA/SA appreciation thread?

Because I got one of those, too.

And a CZ 75 SP-01

And three Beretta 92's, one of which is a fotay (A 96G Centurion, hitting all of the high notes).
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 2:16:18 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By akethan:



Tap a size up?
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Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By thatguywiththeak:
I just found out the asshole that I bought my sig 229 sas from stripped 2 of the grip screw holes, tried to fix them with thread repair compound, and neglected to tell me about it when he sold it to me.




E2 grips for now and probably back to sig as a long term fix. Significantly more costly than I thought I had snagged it for.



Tap a size up?

An insert (I presume like helicoils) are what the sig rep told me the fix would be unless the frame was utterly trashed (it shouldnt be). He didnt mention it but tapping to the M5 P220 screws is another option. Since it's only 2 that are messed up I'd prefer the insert though to keep the grip screws the original thread pattern.
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