Quoted: I for one am very pleased the article appeared in a paper inside the beltway. Perhaps it will offer a warning to those in congress.  Pass a new AWB & the 1994 power shift will happen all over again.  Slick Willy himself commented after the election "The NRA did this".  Democrats should remain gunshy, pun intended.

I agree. The author of the article seemed to try and mitigate the damage by saying we're strapped for cash, but I think the message is quite clear.

We are not the only ones who will be strapped for cash.

Quoted: We really need to come up with a term that doesn't include "assault" for EBR's.

No matter what we want to call the rifles we love, those who hate them will always refer to them as "assault rifles" -unless they can come up with a more dreadful name.

Sadly, accuracy is not the first priority for those who report the news.

The article makes it appear that the NRA sicked us all on Zumbo, when the truth is that it was a spontaneous reaction by thousands of regular people.

email the author


email Pat Wray  [email protected]

Quoted: Quoted: "assault-weapon owners, who tend to have lots of passion but less cash."   Sure, and how did they come to that conclusion?

Probably fed to them by that Pat Wray asshat.  He more than likely is still stuck in the sixties with a stripped down benchrest gun for popping chucks that cost him a couple of grand, and thinks we are all buying stripped down Bushmasters for 700-800 bucks, or less.  

I'd be willing to bet that my single bolt action rifle cost more than any of a single one of his undoubtedly numerous chuck guns, expecially if I get to throw in ammo cost and 'accessories' that one actually 'needs' to shoot it.

He's a fucktard.

For the Wash. Post I thought it was a balanced and factual view of the issue. Both sides made their points in the article. For the Wash. Post that was almost a pro-gun article.

By the way, I think Zumbo is a traitor who got what he deserved.

Quoted: remington et al knows who has the money and power in the shooting community and how they will vote with it, that's why they acted the way they did. this asshole writer may be smart enough to figure it out as well but he has to spin the story as being a fracture in our community and not the massive bitch slap to a traitor that it actually was.

+10

Quoted: Quoted:  We as a group really do need to come up with a better description, & soon.   Yea...I like Sport rifle  or Sport Utility Rifle.

Defense Rifle

My letter to Pat:



Dear Pat,

I am a Gun Owner and I am VERY Disappointed in your comments that were quoted in the Washington Post.

I fully support your right to your opinion, however sometimes an individual has to know when to restrain themselves and keep their opinion to themselves.

The argument that an AR15 is good or bad for hunting is a very different discussion than calling fellow gun owners Zealots or Terrorists.

Most AR owners I know are either very active in competitive shooting as it is a superb platform for accurized shooting, Or they are collectors of Military items.

Hardly Zealots, Hardly "Trained" by the NRA.

Gun owners need to stick together in times like these and your comments now appear on anti gun sites and in articles.

You should be ashamed that your comments have not helped anyone and may have hindered the plight of all of us who fight for our second amendment rights.

Sometimes, biting ones tongue is more help than stating ones opinion!

Thank You for your time,


XXXXXXXXXXXX

      I wont paint the hunting crowd with a broad brush, as I know quite a few who have bought EBR's and love them, but a conversation I had with a local at a barber shop was pretty telling of how they feel about our "passion"...........the guy is a long time hunter who basically told me that because we fight so hard to keep our EBR's, it was endangering their hunting rifles and would eventually cause them all to get banned, to which I replied that eventually, should he decide not to stick with us, he would lose his as well, since he had a "sniper rifle"..........
     The guy wouldnt budge, and still felt that the Dems wouldnt take hunters rifles and shotguns away, and that he hoped we lost our rifles because we DONT NEED THEM.......This is what we are dealing with, and it will take a mighty large effort on our part to convince them to come over to our side,but it can be done..........dont ever quit or give in, because this is a fight we can and will win

Quoted: "assault-weapon owners, who tend to have lots of passion but less cash."

Could be referring to hunters who can afford things like out of state moose, elk, and bighorn sheep tags in a state like Wyoming as well as gear and travel for the trip:

gf.state.wy.us/fiscal/license/index.asp

I think we spend a lot more money within the shooting industry than hunters. For one we expend a lot more ammo, and most of us probably spend more on guns. There are quite a few rich hunters that would put us to shame too, though, but they are in the minority. Most hunters arnt spending 20k to go on a guided hunt every year.


I do have a lot of respect for the money hunters put into wildlife though. Without them the game animals in this country would be a lot worse off.

yet another reference to "assault rifle"  WTF?

the AR15 IS NOT an "assault rifle"  That is a scare tactic doled out by the anti's

why do we allow it's continued use where it is not appropriate?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I didn't want to see the old guy lose his job over it.  I wanted a retraction and an apology, maybe a flogging  But I didn't want him to lose a career he'd built up for 40 years. It's interesting to see that even in something like this the anti's can find fault in the pro's.  Now we're zealots! To hell with Dumbo and his career but I'm like you, a little concerned with already being terrorists to now adding  zealots to the label this is not good.......how long before one of these snapper heads do not call them "assault weapons" and use another term like "weapons of mass destruction" to try and get a reaction from the non gun owning libtards or something????? Ethan Hawke's character in "Lord of War" made that exact correlation.

One of the (unintentionally) funniest movies I've seen in a long time. The "Mommie Dearest" of the gun-grabber camp.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: "assault-weapon owners, who tend to have lots of passion but less cash."   DO THEY KNOW, HOW MUCH MONEY, SOME OF YOU GUY,S HAVE IN THOSE GUNS? AND HOW MANY?THE IMPESSION I GET IS THEY THINK YOUR (you're)WAL-MART SHOPPER TYPES. You sound like you're on the out side looking in.

I was thinking he sounded like Cristopher Walken.

Quoted: Quoted: We really need to come up with a term that doesn't include "assault" for EBR's.   My semiautomatic (insert manufacturers name). To only be used with the uneducated.

I was thinking of that yesterday and determined that a lot of the "alternatives" are just too long to be practical (ie "Homeland Defense Rifles" and "Sport Utility Rifles").  I think that a reasonable alternative would simply be "Defense Rifles" as that would truly reflect what most of us would consider their primary purpose.  It also has less of an aggressive connotation.  Not many Americans (certainly not a majority anyhow) would support the ban of weapons that are purely for self-defense, especially considering that one of the Brady's biggest talking points is that "assault" rifles aren't used for self defense.

ETA:  Wow, Zaphod it seems that we are thinking on the same "wavelength".

Edited Again

Quoted: We really need to come up with a term that doesn't include "assault" for EBR's.

I'm partial to "Homeland Defense Rifle."

Who can be against defending the homeland, as our founding fathers intended us to be able to do with the 2nd AMd?

Quoted: email the author email Pat Wray  [email protected]

not that it will matter

"This shows the zealousness of gun owners to the point of actual foolishness,"

Mr Wray,

When will you understand that ALL of OUR gun rights are threatened? As a Veteran of OUR Nations Armed Services I am totally disgusted with your remarks. I did not spend 3 years of my life defending OUR freedoms for some alleged "sportsmen" to decide that the 2nd Amendment is about hunting. The 2nd Amendment is NOT about hunting!

When the Anti-gun crowd comes for your high powered sniper rifles maybe you will understand.

Thank you
CB1
Veteran and Gun Owner.

Quoted: Quoted: We really need to come up with a term that doesn't include "assault" for EBR's. I'm partial to "Homeland Defense Rifle." Who can be against defending the homeland, as our founding fathers intended us to be able to do with the 2nd AMd?

I love the term homeland defense rifle. Our fore-fathers would love it. I can see 'ole George, Sam, Patrick and John smiling now.

Quoted: We really need to come up with a term that doesn't include "assault" for EBR's. Seeing it repeated over and over again simply drives home that point to me.  The term "assault weapon" is a politically contrived one and its been pounded into Joe Sixpacks head for nearly 15 years.  Its become interchangeable with assault rifle, which has nothing to do with EBR's but that's the intention of politicians and MSM. The fact that many people here tend to use the terms interchangeably and some are confused when the difference is pointed out shows just how far the programming has gone. black plastic rifle = assault weapon = assault rifle = machine gun. As we saw when the AWB sunsetted, most people really though there would be machine guns flooding the streets.   I'm still partial to Sport-Utility Rifle myself as it is the most accurate description of its capabilities.   The word "sport" might fire a few neurons with the "F" types on the other side as well.

Airwolf - with respect for your opinion , and NOT attempting to attack you , let me say this.

Your Head is not on quite straight.

The Ant-Gunners don't CARE what you call your guns - OR what you DO with them.
They just want them ALL GONE!

We need to stop being WUSSES - these people are our ENEMIES - and we need to step
on them HARD.

There should be MORE "Internet Lynchings" of these Traitors .


( And Screw Zumbo - may he be ravaged by a groundhog.   )

They're trying to create a positive  image for the typical "hunter" (who in reality may only own one or two "traditional" hunting rifles and shoot 20 rounds per year) versus the typical "trailer park" EBR owner (who in reality puts infinitely more cash into the firearms industry and probably has more disposable income.)

It's a typical media smear job.

Quoted: Quoted: This shows the zealousness of gun owners to the point of actual foolishness," said Pat Wray, a freelance outdoors writer in Corvallis, Ore., and author of "A Chukar Hunter's Companion." Wray said that what happened to Zumbo is a case study in how the NRA has trained members to attack their perceived enemies without mercy. What I've come to expect from him. The NRA didn't train me to do anything. I suppose defending the Constitution is an unacceptable practice? Well then, it is fortunate that I don't give-a-damn what idots like Pat Wray say or believe.

AMEN to that brother.

If defending the Constitution of the United States and the Bill of Rights makes you a zealot then I am  proud to be called a zealot. Very Proud Indeed.

BTW this new bill would ban my hunting rifle as it has a threaded barrel for the Boss System.

"ravaged by a groundhog" That's a good one!

I see (so far) most people are favoring "Defense Rifle".

Personally, I like "Sport Utility Rifle" which I think is more likely to resonate with ordinary people.

Either is better than what the press will always call them.

Don in Ohio

not only should zumbo's career be over but we should point out to our people in washington how important this issue is to us and how misrepresenting us can cost you your job.

Quoted: I have been participating in a conversation on their comment section for that article. I have decided to be less snarky and a bit drier. I will say one thing, if you maintain your composure long enough the gun grabbers get *really* flustered that you won't play the emotion game.

You couldn't be more correct!!!   Nothing makes them more crazy than an educated, articulate gun nut, especially one that they can't rile

I like the term "sport rifle". The terms "assault weapon, defense rifle, homeland defense rifle" all imply, to sheeple and the lib media, that they are mainly used to shoot people.

Sport rifle is short and sweet, and has a ring to it.

Quoted: yet another reference to "assault rifle"  WTF? the AR15 IS NOT an "assault rifle"  That is a scare tactic doled out by the anti's why do we allow it's continued use where it is not appropriate?

this bothered me too. the author never seemed to consider that "assault rifle" is an improper term or that the guns had any other use besides being horrific death machines. apparently, the people using them are just uneducated buffoons as well.

eta. "sport rifle" may be the best term i've heard so far. as stated above, all the others imply shooting people or being some kind of revolutionary.

Who cares how much money the hunters have vs. the EBR owners.
Last time I voted... it didn't cost me a dime.
That is all the congresscritters need to know.

Pretty simple.  Just look how few could be "bribed" to donate NRA or GOA memberships in this THREAD.  How about we show them they are wrong and swell the NRA with EBR owners, and sponsor someone into the NRA or GOA?

Quoted: Quoted: "assault-weapon owners, who tend to have lots of passion but less cash."   Sure, and how did they come to that conclusion?

"The purpose of the 2A is defense of the USA from tyranny and oppression, from the outside and also from within.  
    I'm not entirely sure why these anti-gunners always question the size of ones manhood if they happen to own firearms.  Perhaps its projection of their own illogical, immature fear of weapons.  Full of irrational fear, they must attack what they don't understand.  Lets see these types man up and defend themselves barehanded from armed theives on the streets, or God forbin in the future, crazd tyrannical government storm troopers simply just "doing their job."  What you'll have is the macho ultimate fighter champion riddled with bullet holes or a slit throat.  How big you are, dead on the floor, defending yourself barehanded from the ills of the world.  
    NRA to assure unlimited killing???  That is so completely absurd its just about funny, just about.  Whats truly frightening is that there are people as clueless and stupid as the person who wrote that.  You want unlimited killing?  Disarm the populace and give the government time.  Go ahead, burn the history books and tell me it's never happened, or cant in this country.  

"The NRA will surrender their assault rifles and machine guns when we pry them from their cold, dead hands. So what are we waiting for?"  You advocate killing those who own firearms to collect them all.  You and everyone like you are the reason why I own weapons "only good for killing people" with "high capacity clips."  Should the time ever come when I have to take life to preserve my freedoms and those of my family, your damn right I want a weapon well suited for the job, you idiot.

The outrage at Zumbo is over him calling americans with "assault weapons" terrorists.  Who cares if AR's and AK's can or cannot be used for hunting.  Their legitimate purpose is defense of freedom, plain and simple.  He was crucified for good reason by the gun community.  There are those who want to completely disarm the populace, and his comments can and already have served as propaganda by the brady campaign, to sway the uninformed.  With Democrats in power, gun rights hang by a thread, and the ignorance which Zumbo spewed does not help us at all.  By saying what he did, he showed us that he never was "one of our own."

"The problem is that the owners of military style assault weapons would be unable to hit any game as they are usually poor shots. With an Assult weapon the accuracy of aim is not important -- it will usually blow away whatever you are shooting at. Hunting is a sport and part of the sport is learning to aim the rifle or shotgun. Those who hunt with miliary assault rifles are NOT sportsman and should be ineligible for a hunting license" -- You obviously have no idea what the hell you are talking about.  How many guns do you own judy, and how often do you shoot?  All of my "assult weapons" are dead accurate, and you can only "blow away" what you hit, "accuracy of aim" is critical to any firearm being effective.  Unless your shooting a some 16" naval gun at game in which the muzzle blast might literally blow it away.
   People, dont pretend to be experts on something you've never dealt with before.  If you believe judy, then ask me about open heart surgery sometime, I'll tell you all about it.

-- The Plumber"

That was my attempted post to the article, apparently they shut down post comments on it.  That or there is a dwell time on posts showing up, and everyone is going to be pissed because mine will be quadruple posted.  Anyone care to criticize what I wrote for overall message/ideas, grammar, etc?  I'm not the greatest writer in the world and would like some constructive criticism.

Quoted: ... attack their perceived enemies without mercy.

...Yeah, and?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: "assault-weapon owners, who tend to have lots of passion but less cash."   That was my (and a few others') take on it as well. THen I thought about it a little bit and have decided it's probably true. It's a whole helluva lot cheaper to buy 1 or two boxes of bullets every 5 years than it is to buy a few cases per year. Understand that when we are talking about a $1500 AR and a few tens of cases of ammo per year, we are not even approaching the level of spending that many of the clay shooters and hunters spend annually on their sport.  To them, a $1500 shotgun is an entry level toy one might buy for a child.  They would think nothing of dropping a few grand on a weekend hunting trip.  How many here struggle to feed their AR for a weekend? A dedicated skeeter will shoot 30k shells per year through a $20k O/U and there are alot more of them than us.  They also trend towards the $150k + income bracket. What joe sixpack sees when he reads about these folks, is that I can be just like them.  I can skeet with them, and I can hunt with them, if only once in a lifetime. Now, that said, what we proved here is that we are a force in the industry and the industry recognizes that.  We do spend more than the average Joe, and we do vote.  We do write letters and we do offer unawavering support of the 2A. The industry clearly recognizes this, and I would suspect, with the placement of the article in the Washington post, more than a few newly elected dems will recognize this as well. Zumbo may well be the martyr that prevented the new AWB.  If this is proves out to be true over the long haul, then he will have my thanks for his few course words.

Good points, but many of us just don't have the means to spend that kind of coin on our gun collection, or have other priorities.

I'm a blue collar guy, have a kid in college, and two more coming up and my money is better spent on the family.

Don't get me wrong, I save 5 bucks a week from my gasoline budget and when I have enough to buy 100 rds of .223, I do just that, but I cannot just drop serious money all at one time.....I have to plan ahead and work overtime for those kinds of purchases.

I don't want to be like them, I prefer a more simple life, free of the upper-crust keep up with the jonses kind of bullshit.

I think what Zumbo, Petzal and the Washington Post forget is the level of technology, information and feedback has increased a thousand fold since 1994. How many of us had computers back in 1994? I did, but it was hardly what I have available to me now. These people are just finding out that if you write something bad about us EBR owners you will be held accountable for it. Unlike in 1994 when most of us didn't have computers, we can now instantly tell these people (and their sponsers) what we think about their oppinions.

How many of you out there think that the AWB would have had a chance if the internet had been available on the scale it is today? Now, in this website, we EBR owners have a voice, we are organized and we are prepared. With "Zumbogate" we have let the country and the antis know that we are not simply a minority community any more. We are the vast right wing conspiricy that Hitlery warned you about.

Quoted: I have been participating in a conversation on their comment section for that article. I have decided to be less snarky and a bit drier. I will say one thing, if you maintain your composure long enough the gun grabbers get *really* flustered that you won't play the emotion game.

+10000

Quoted: "assault-weapon owners, who tend to have lots of passion but less cash."

Directed to author of article..... not m499

Ummm Yeah....

Less cash?

Priced AR goodies lately?

Priced AR's lately?

The Press is dumb but .... I am glad they wrote the article, maybe a politician or two will take heed and see that we are motivated as a group and not silent.
Just my .02

He should not have declined comment (to the post). THis was a chance for him to make his regrets and apologies count. I would have forgiven him then.

"assault-weapon owners, who tend to have lots of passion, 20,000 rounds of ammunition, $500-$1,500 scopes, hundreds of spare parts, but less cash."

fixt

Quoted: This shows the zealousness of gun owners to the point of actual foolishness," said Pat Wray, a freelance outdoors writer in Corvallis, Ore., and author of "A Chukar Hunter's Companion."...

He'll eat those words when the invasion of Zombie Chukars begins.

Quoted: "assault-weapon owners, who tend to have lots of passion but less cash."

THAT, is one of the stupidest things I've read this year.

I hunt and I own AR15s.  I do not use my ARs for hunting however.

One thing I've learned over the years is that it is the gun owners who own ARs and other military looking rifles are the ones who are spending money on preserving the rights of hunters not the other way around. Most people who hunt (with the exception of the ones who own militry style rifles) are clueless when it comes to RKBA.

Quoted: "assault-weapon owners, who tend to have lots of passion but less cash."

Yes I have less cash and yes I have lots of passion, and if the liberal medial understood why I have less cash they'd shit themselves. If they only knew how many dare I say TENS OF MILLIONS of rounds of ammo we collectively own they would shit!!!

Why don't we just call 'em sporting rifles?

We need to post on the blog of the Post but I would urge restraint, dont make us look like nuts.... the lefties are posting like crazy supporting Zumbo.

We need to support our side but lets do it with class and inform instead of bash.
I have posted twice on there this morning.

I am trying to keep my remarks civil and to the point instead of name calling.
The lefties are calling us loons.

Would you consider what I posted as inflammatory and overkill?  Just curious.

Quoted: Would you consider what I posted as inflammatory and overkill?  Just curious.

Not at all, it was very good.

My point is just that the lefties are swarming, lets make THEM look unbalanced, not us.

The author has hinted we are "radicals" as have many on that blog.
Lets prove them wrong and show that we are intelligent gun owners who respect the Constitution and that we have a voice.
We dont want to "prove" we are nut cases.

Lets beat them at their own game.

The lefties are nuts, we all know that, lets prove it on their own turf.

Well no one has offered to take Zumbo out and teach him the finer points of an accurate AR yet.  

As far as cash and firearms goes.  I know several that have more than a few million stashed away who have AR's and shoot regularly.  

AR's are simply firearms.  They are built using modern materials, processes and machining.   I personally love the feel of wood and blued iron.   However, for working, or knock about  firearms.  Modern plastics, and steel and aluminum and finishes are just fine.

I enjoy bird hunting with my $1500.00 28 ga.  However when duck or goose hunting I use a beat up old 870 magnum.  

It's really hard to beat an AR for coyote hunting.

I appreciate a nice bolt gun as much as anyone.  

I should hope that Zumbo would get out and educate himself on a subject a little more before he writes on it.

is a Rem model 700 with a composite stock a 'terrorist' weapon?
ok, how about a Sniper Rifle because it has a scope and is accurate?

when it comes to firearms, one thing is constant with the antifreedom libtards, they want them gone.(period)

we need to get ALL firearms owners under team and fight this disease.

(yes, I know I'm 'preachin' to the choir')

IMHO, I think the best solution is to form a union with ALL the firearms and related organizations  (JFPO,NRA,GOA, etc...) and focus on the protection of our God given rights by educating and fighting TOGETHER.