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That sucks. Fucking thieves. At least the old man got one of one of his guns back though and the remnants of one. FIFY Also, you owe the old man either the money you got for the parts, or a list of the people who got the parts. |
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Then why the thread you are saying you are to the point of tears? Why wouldn't you want it anymore? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Dude, give the cops your number and ask them to give it to the old guy. Tell them you know his son and would buy it off of him. I know him and he's only about a half-mile away...I just don't want it anymore. Then why the thread you are saying you are to the point of tears? Why wouldn't you want it anymore? I bet the heroin addict that stolen it had tattoos, and he just can't stand the thought that an inky touched it. |
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If you know the old timer give him a call and tell him he is getting his gun back and if he every wants to sell it to call you
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This happened to my brother who bought a 1911 in California in the 1990s, and another friend who bought a used single action Ruger in Maryland around the same time.
People assume if you buy a used gun from an FFL that he gun isn't stolen. People assume too much. Not all used guns are checked. Even then, some are reported later. |
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Heroin addicted Granddaughter and her Felon boyfriend. Seems they stole a bunch of nice jewelry and a couple guns (one was a P-38) from her other Grandmother and her son (I know him too) called the gun owner to see if he was missing anything. That's when he discovered the broken lock on his wardrobe. The po-po said he said that he had not looked at the guns in years.....Bad health and all. One of the pitfalls of pawn shop buying I guess....It happened to me a couple years ago....Same type of deal. By law they have to have guns they buy from walk-ins checked to see if they were stolen. 10 days after that they can put them out for sale. That's in case they are reported stolen. The trouble is if someone files a stolen property report afterwards and the gun was sold through the shop they "go after" the new owner to recover the stolen property. That "possession is nine tenths of the law" thing does not quite work that way. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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So who stole them? Heroin addicted Granddaughter and her Felon boyfriend. Seems they stole a bunch of nice jewelry and a couple guns (one was a P-38) from her other Grandmother and her son (I know him too) called the gun owner to see if he was missing anything. That's when he discovered the broken lock on his wardrobe. The po-po said he said that he had not looked at the guns in years.....Bad health and all. Quoted:
Stolen goods at a pawn shop!?! Unpossible. One of the pitfalls of pawn shop buying I guess....It happened to me a couple years ago....Same type of deal. By law they have to have guns they buy from walk-ins checked to see if they were stolen. 10 days after that they can put them out for sale. That's in case they are reported stolen. The trouble is if someone files a stolen property report afterwards and the gun was sold through the shop they "go after" the new owner to recover the stolen property. That "possession is nine tenths of the law" thing does not quite work that way. It actually does, if you want to be a dick about it. I think the tort is conversion because the store and you both believed that you legally acquired the property even though it did not belong to the person who sold it to the store. If you wanted to be a super-dick about it, you could have told them that you'll give it back when they go to court and get a writ of replevin. This takes time and costs money, so many people won't bother. Since the store promised to make it right to you, you're probably best off not being a dick, or a super-dick. |
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Same thing happened to me. Bought a beautiful Persian Mauser and 2 weeks later a sheriff calls me up while I'm at Annual Training and tells me I bought a stolen rifle.Sheriff told me the guys grandson stole guns and sold them. Fucking gun shop said they didn't have the cash to pay me back. The owner of the gun shop is dead now. Fuck it.
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It actually does, if you want to be a dick about it. I think the tort is conversion because the store and you both believed that you legally acquired the property even though it did not belong to the person who sold it to the store. If you wanted to be a super-dick about it, you could have told them that you'll give it back when they go to court and get a writ of replevin. This takes time and costs money, so many people won't bother. Since the store promised to make it right to you, you're probably best off not being a dick, or a super-dick. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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So who stole them? Heroin addicted Granddaughter and her Felon boyfriend. Seems they stole a bunch of nice jewelry and a couple guns (one was a P-38) from her other Grandmother and her son (I know him too) called the gun owner to see if he was missing anything. That's when he discovered the broken lock on his wardrobe. The po-po said he said that he had not looked at the guns in years.....Bad health and all. Quoted:
Stolen goods at a pawn shop!?! Unpossible. One of the pitfalls of pawn shop buying I guess....It happened to me a couple years ago....Same type of deal. By law they have to have guns they buy from walk-ins checked to see if they were stolen. 10 days after that they can put them out for sale. That's in case they are reported stolen. The trouble is if someone files a stolen property report afterwards and the gun was sold through the shop they "go after" the new owner to recover the stolen property. That "possession is nine tenths of the law" thing does not quite work that way. It actually does, if you want to be a dick about it. I think the tort is conversion because the store and you both believed that you legally acquired the property even though it did not belong to the person who sold it to the store. If you wanted to be a super-dick about it, you could have told them that you'll give it back when they go to court and get a writ of replevin. This takes time and costs money, so many people won't bother. Since the store promised to make it right to you, you're probably best off not being a dick, or a super-dick. No, not being a dick...changes and processes came about in some areas because of abuse of the system, it may have been a bullshit report to begin with, a family member, a crack deal, victim wants his stuff back but doesn't want to sign a complaint/affidavit, or changed his mind about pursuing a charge against a family member, a friend, of just doesn't want to be bothered, disappears.. Not just guns, burglaries, but back in the day when 'crack rentals' ( cars loaned out for dope, but later reported stolen) was prevelent. After a number of lawsuits I know some police wouldn't even think about seizing reported stolen property without an affidavit signed, maybe even some type of warrant or alias warrant issued, and sometimes a search warrant by the court to seize a particular item...and if an innocent third party requested so, a show cause hearing would be set so a judge decided who gets the property after hearing from both parties. Regardless of what other charges may result, it's not very attractive to a district attorney if the 'victim' no longer wants to be the victim. Gets even murkier when stolen property gets Inputted into NCIC police computer database and now you're dealing with other agencies, other states, non unique serial numbers, serial numbers that get transposed, property that had been recovered but never cleared from the computer, victims who can't be located and so on |
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No, not being a dick...changes and processes came about in some areas because of abuse of the system, it may have been a bullshit report to begin with, a family member, a crack deal, victim wants his stuff back but doesn't want to sign a complaint/affidavit, or changed his mind about pursuing a charge against a family member, a friend, of just doesn't want to be bothered, disappears.. Not just guns, burglaries, but back in the day when 'crack rentals' ( cars loaned out for dope, but later reported stolen) was prevelent. After a number of lawsuits I know some police wouldn't even think about seizing reported stolen property without an affidavit signed, maybe even some type of warrant or alias warrant issued, and sometimes a search warrant by the court to seize a particular item...and if an innocent third party requested so, a show cause hearing would be set so a judge decided who gets the property after hearing from both parties. Regardless of what other charges may result, it's not very attractive to a district attorney if the 'victim' no longer wants to be the victim. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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So who stole them? Heroin addicted Granddaughter and her Felon boyfriend. Seems they stole a bunch of nice jewelry and a couple guns (one was a P-38) from her other Grandmother and her son (I know him too) called the gun owner to see if he was missing anything. That's when he discovered the broken lock on his wardrobe. The po-po said he said that he had not looked at the guns in years.....Bad health and all. Quoted:
Stolen goods at a pawn shop!?! Unpossible. One of the pitfalls of pawn shop buying I guess....It happened to me a couple years ago....Same type of deal. By law they have to have guns they buy from walk-ins checked to see if they were stolen. 10 days after that they can put them out for sale. That's in case they are reported stolen. The trouble is if someone files a stolen property report afterwards and the gun was sold through the shop they "go after" the new owner to recover the stolen property. That "possession is nine tenths of the law" thing does not quite work that way. It actually does, if you want to be a dick about it. I think the tort is conversion because the store and you both believed that you legally acquired the property even though it did not belong to the person who sold it to the store. If you wanted to be a super-dick about it, you could have told them that you'll give it back when they go to court and get a writ of replevin. This takes time and costs money, so many people won't bother. Since the store promised to make it right to you, you're probably best off not being a dick, or a super-dick. No, not being a dick...changes and processes came about in some areas because of abuse of the system, it may have been a bullshit report to begin with, a family member, a crack deal, victim wants his stuff back but doesn't want to sign a complaint/affidavit, or changed his mind about pursuing a charge against a family member, a friend, of just doesn't want to be bothered, disappears.. Not just guns, burglaries, but back in the day when 'crack rentals' ( cars loaned out for dope, but later reported stolen) was prevelent. After a number of lawsuits I know some police wouldn't even think about seizing reported stolen property without an affidavit signed, maybe even some type of warrant or alias warrant issued, and sometimes a search warrant by the court to seize a particular item...and if an innocent third party requested so, a show cause hearing would be set so a judge decided who gets the property after hearing from both parties. Regardless of what other charges may result, it's not very attractive to a district attorney if the 'victim' no longer wants to be the victim. In Virginia it does not matter if the gun owner wants to press charges against his granddaughter or not. Once a report has been filed with the police then boom, instant felony charge for the preps. Grandpa no longer has a dog in the race other than recovering the property. All involved on the stolen end of things are classified as a "victim". In this case the gun owner, the pawn shop owner, myself, and one other person that bought a Win. Red Letter M-37 from the shop. In fact I filled out paperwork for restitution after I signed over the M1886 so maybe in a couple years I'll get a restitution check like the last time this happened. Now if grandpa chooses not to receive restitution then that's on him....The felony charges go forward. |
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I had to surrender a pre-89 Daewoo at the fun shop before I could even take possession.
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Ok I did not know that about Virginia. In many states where criminal justice seems to favor the criminal, the court gives him due process which often includes an opportunity to ask certain questions of the witnesses against him...and if the guy who owned the gun, changes his mind about being the victim, or whether it was really stolen, exchanged for sex, or lost in a card game, or any other far out defense offered up, going forward with that charge, or any charge as a result could be like a house of cards....that's not to say that the police will stop policing, arresting, seizing and so on
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I've never had a gun I bought at pawn shop come back stolen.
But your case seems unique with the delayed reporting. |
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I've never had a gun I bought at pawn shop come back stolen. But your case seems unique with the delayed reporting. View Quote We had to enter every pawn or purchase into a state database in Florida, then sit on the item for 30 days. It seemed to discourage thieves from selling to pawn shops, but it also meant that when we did get a piece of stolen property, the theft was managed in a way that prevented discovery for a long time. One guy stole a few thousand dollars worth of jewelry from his girlfriend's safe just before she dumped him. It was mostly over priced junk set in gold, but she collected it and kept it in the original boxes in the safe. He took the jewelry and left the boxes. A few months passed before she opened the boxes and discovered the theft. That stuff was scrapped as soon as it was able to be sold. |
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I've never had a gun I bought at pawn shop come back stolen. But your case seems unique with the delayed reporting. View Quote Hell this is the second time it's happened....Same type of crime, stealing guns from family members to support a heroin addiction. The officer that recovered the M1886 said there has been a huge up-tick in family theft crimes the last couple years due to heroin addiction. he said it's really bad in our area. |
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Ok I did not know that about Virginia. In many states where criminal justice seems to favor the criminal, the court gives him due process which often includes an opportunity to ask certain questions of the witnesses against him...and if the guy who owned the gun, changes his mind about being the victim, or whether it was really stolen, exchanged for sex, or lost in a card game, or any other far out defense offered up, going forward with that charge, or any charge as a result could be like a house of cards....that's not to say that the police will stop policing, arresting, seizing and so on View Quote VA isn't just a Commonwealth in name only |
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Quoted: Nah, I view the rifle as tainted goods now and want no parts of it....Telling them what it was worth was me solving the potential "greed" problem and it being stayed solved. I'll be made whole for what I paid by the pawn shop and that will be the end of it. I'll sell/trade the cartridges for more than I paid so it's all good. Oddly enough I don't feel the least bit guilty about parting out the Savage. At least I made out on that one. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That blows OP. nice rifle there but happy for the old man... I feel bad for him. I already called his son (not the bad seed's father) and talked to him and told him what the rifle was worth and suggested that he ask for it after he said his Dad was getting pretty feeble and can't even go down the steps to the basement where the guns are/were kept anymore. He said his Dad was just broken-hearted about the whole Granddaughter thing. She is looking at a bunch of time and she has three kids. Felon BF has 20 probation years hanging over his head from jump-street. In Virginia a gun theft is a automatic felony. Even if Granddad would not press charges for theft the state will, especially in this case with the number of guns stolen. Since you know the family, if you can't buy the rifle from him, perhaps offer up the box of ammo if he lets you shoot it a few times? Nah, I view the rifle as tainted goods now and want no parts of it....Telling them what it was worth was me solving the potential "greed" problem and it being stayed solved. I'll be made whole for what I paid by the pawn shop and that will be the end of it. I'll sell/trade the cartridges for more than I paid so it's all good. Oddly enough I don't feel the least bit guilty about parting out the Savage. At least I made out on that one. This might not be over |
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Quoted: I know him and he's only about a half-mile away...I just don't want it anymore. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Dude, give the cops your number and ask them to give it to the old guy. Tell them you know his son and would buy it off of him. I know him and he's only about a half-mile away...I just don't want it anymore. Something tells me this is not ending up right? |
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We had to enter every pawn or purchase into a state database in Florida, then sit on the item for 30 days. It seemed to discourage thieves from selling to pawn shops, but it also meant that when we did get a piece of stolen property, the theft was managed in a way that prevented discovery for a long time. One guy stole a few thousand dollars worth of jewelry from his girlfriend's safe just before she dumped him. It was mostly over priced junk set in gold, but she collected it and kept it in the original boxes in the safe. He took the jewelry and left the boxes. A few months passed before she opened the boxes and discovered the theft. That stuff was scrapped as soon as it was able to be sold. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I've never had a gun I bought at pawn shop come back stolen. But your case seems unique with the delayed reporting. We had to enter every pawn or purchase into a state database in Florida, then sit on the item for 30 days. It seemed to discourage thieves from selling to pawn shops, but it also meant that when we did get a piece of stolen property, the theft was managed in a way that prevented discovery for a long time. One guy stole a few thousand dollars worth of jewelry from his girlfriend's safe just before she dumped him. It was mostly over priced junk set in gold, but she collected it and kept it in the original boxes in the safe. He took the jewelry and left the boxes. A few months passed before she opened the boxes and discovered the theft. That stuff was scrapped as soon as it was able to be sold. Similar process here. The detectives can check the daily pawn receipts via a laptop. |
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Well I hope that the OP is not so damned stupid that he would chop the original barrel on a nice 86 Winchester. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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What if the OP would have SBR'd that rifle and it was now in the NFA registry? I assume the cops couldn't just take it then? Well I hope that the OP is not so damned stupid that he would chop the original barrel on a nice 86 Winchester. Well, he did buy them at a pawn shop full of stolen goods. |
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Well I hope that the OP is not so damned stupid that he would chop the original barrel on a nice 86 Winchester. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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What if the OP would have SBR'd that rifle and it was now in the NFA registry? I assume the cops couldn't just take it then? Well I hope that the OP is not so damned stupid that he would chop the original barrel on a nice 86 Winchester. Lol..might want go to check out my thread |
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Hell this is the second time it's happened....Same type of crime, stealing guns from family members to support a heroin addiction. The officer that recovered the M1886 said there has been a huge up-tick in family theft crimes the last couple years due to heroin addiction. he said it's really bad in our area. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I've never had a gun I bought at pawn shop come back stolen. But your case seems unique with the delayed reporting. Hell this is the second time it's happened....Same type of crime, stealing guns from family members to support a heroin addiction. The officer that recovered the M1886 said there has been a huge up-tick in family theft crimes the last couple years due to heroin addiction. he said it's really bad in our area. I bought a gun FTF off the EE here. Several weeks later someone copied a staff member here trying to locate me. Apparently it was stolen but I had already traded it at a gun show. |
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I hate thieves. That said, my son is one and is in jail at the present for B&E.
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Are you collecting the full amount you paid from the pawn shop for the 2 guns even though you parted out the savage? Something tells me this is not ending up right? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Dude, give the cops your number and ask them to give it to the old guy. Tell them you know his son and would buy it off of him. I know him and he's only about a half-mile away...I just don't want it anymore. Are you collecting the full amount you paid from the pawn shop for the 2 guns even though you parted out the savage? Something tells me this is not ending up right? Negative......I did not require restitution/reimbursement on the Savage as I did very well on it parting it out. One thing I did find out today (I ran into the officer this morning at the pawn shop) is if the state would by chance lose the case (or drops charges in some kind of deal) I get the rifle back as I was the last legal owner. The pawn shop and the guy that bought the M37 would also get their guns back. The guns in question will not be returned to grandpa till after the case is settled in court. All kinds of weird shit can go on in these family theft cases particularly if drugs are involved but at least charges were filed this morning on the perps. |
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Quoted: Negative......I did not require restitution/reimbursement on the Savage as I did very well on it parting it out. One thing I did find out today (I ran into the officer this morning at the pawn shop) is if the state would by chance lose the case (or drops charges in some kind of deal) I get the rifle back as I was the last legal owner. The pawn shop and the guy that bought the M37 would also get their guns back. The guns in question will not be returned to grandpa till after the case is settled in court. All kinds of weird shit can go on in these family theft cases particularly if drugs are involved but at least charges were filed this morning on the perps. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Dude, give the cops your number and ask them to give it to the old guy. Tell them you know his son and would buy it off of him. I know him and he's only about a half-mile away...I just don't want it anymore. Are you collecting the full amount you paid from the pawn shop for the 2 guns even though you parted out the savage? Something tells me this is not ending up right? Negative......I did not require restitution/reimbursement on the Savage as I did very well on it parting it out. One thing I did find out today (I ran into the officer this morning at the pawn shop) is if the state would by chance lose the case (or drops charges in some kind of deal) I get the rifle back as I was the last legal owner. The pawn shop and the guy that bought the M37 would also get their guns back. The guns in question will not be returned to grandpa till after the case is settled in court. All kinds of weird shit can go on in these family theft cases particularly if drugs are involved but at least charges were filed this morning on the perps. |
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Dropping the criminal case does not change the legal ownership of the gun (Guns still belonged the old guy), plus you have already been compensated by the pawn shop so tech they would be but I do not believe either you or the pawn shop ever had legal ownership of the guns. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Dude, give the cops your number and ask them to give it to the old guy. Tell them you know his son and would buy it off of him. I know him and he's only about a half-mile away...I just don't want it anymore. Are you collecting the full amount you paid from the pawn shop for the 2 guns even though you parted out the savage? Something tells me this is not ending up right? Negative......I did not require restitution/reimbursement on the Savage as I did very well on it parting it out. One thing I did find out today (I ran into the officer this morning at the pawn shop) is if the state would by chance lose the case (or drops charges in some kind of deal) I get the rifle back as I was the last legal owner. The pawn shop and the guy that bought the M37 would also get their guns back. The guns in question will not be returned to grandpa till after the case is settled in court. All kinds of weird shit can go on in these family theft cases particularly if drugs are involved but at least charges were filed this morning on the perps. Yeah, I was all like too but that is what I was told. It has more to do if grandpa went to court or told the po-po before then that he "forgot" he gave the guns to his Granddaughter. 82 years old and feeble of mind and body according to his son....What's going to happen to him anyway if he does? When push comes to shove family members will do some strange shit to protect other family members that have gone astray.....Pressure on grandpa from kit and kin and possibly his desire for the whole issue to go away is very powerful. In that case the guns do belong to the pawn shop/buyers as they would then be considered gifted guns and the shop bought them from the "legal owner". At least since there was a felon accomplice (BF) he might get the 20 hanging over his head for selling the P-38. |
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Your situation went a little better than mine. I bought a Browning BPS years ago from a local pawn shop, one that had been reported stolen several years prior to that and had been in the LEADS system for several months before I bought it. Even with the serial number in the system, local sheriff department flat out missed it and was never flagged...until I had it for a month or two. Sheriff's Department flat out didn't give a damn whether I was made whole or not, was wishy washy whether anyone would actually be charged with the theft, and threatened to charge me with possession of stolen property....ultimately ended with me being trespassed from the local sheriff's detective office.
I was eventually refunded by the pawn shop, but the entire fiasco left me with a less than favorable impression of local LEO's.... |
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He's not wrong. That's the way it works here in FL. |
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He's not wrong. That's the way it works here in FL. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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So the pawn shop out the money? Here I think the pawn shop gets to keep the stolen goods if owner doesn't pay the pawn shop cost. In other words owner has to pay to get his property back. I may be entirely wrong though. Wrong I ran a pawn shop in Florida. The pawn shop can relinquish the item or it can refuse to do so until the owner gets a writ of replevin from the county court. When the shop gets served with the writ, they must return the item. |
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seems that the word Po Po gets some hackles up around here.
maybe everyone should start using it more. it's just a fucking phrase. get over yourselves. |
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I ran a pawn shop in Florida. The pawn shop can relinquish the item or it can refuse to do so until the owner gets a writ of replevin from the county court. When the shop gets served with the writ, they must return the item. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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So the pawn shop out the money? Here I think the pawn shop gets to keep the stolen goods if owner doesn't pay the pawn shop cost. In other words owner has to pay to get his property back. I may be entirely wrong though. Wrong I ran a pawn shop in Florida. The pawn shop can relinquish the item or it can refuse to do so until the owner gets a writ of replevin from the county court. When the shop gets served with the writ, they must return the item. From what I understand the owner here could have done something similar. I don't know if the process is called the same or not. I think he's about like me and does not want to mess with it. Small town and all so it would not take long for the kit and kin to make him out like a dick even though he's a victim too. Better to let the police have them and be shed of the possession issue. Thing is he will still have to go to court and testify as to the circumstances of the sale. |
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Same thing happened to me. Bought a beautiful Persian Mauser and 2 weeks later a sheriff calls me up while I'm at Annual Training and tells me I bought a stolen rifle.Sheriff told me the guys grandson stole guns and sold them. Fucking gun shop said they didn't have the cash to pay me back. The owner of the gun shop is dead now. Fuck it. View Quote You killed him? |
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seems that the word Po Po gets some hackles up around here. maybe everyone should start using it more. it's just a fucking phrase. get over yourselves. View Quote It didn't get my hackles up, it just sounds stupid. Just because a non-word gets used a lot doesn't mean it doesn't sound idiotic. Now you can get over yourself. |
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