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So we should have just stuck with the 5.56 rifles?!?! Are you trolling? Tell you what, I'll get on a high ridge line in a fighting position, and shoot at you with 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R rifles, you take the 5.56 and the low ground. I, I can't even dude your a fucking idiot. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I wonder if it has anything to do with the longer engagement distances encountered in theaters like Afghanistan. My unit was normally engaged from 800-1200 meters while we were in Gormach. (can't recall spelling) And from my understand that's pretty normal outside of the cities. 5.56 is next to useless at that range, which is why half way though our deployment we got a bunch of EBR's and 2 XM bolt action rifles for some of our DM's to use. Thats beyond the range of a DM as well. So we should have just stuck with the 5.56 rifles?!?! Are you trolling? Tell you what, I'll get on a high ridge line in a fighting position, and shoot at you with 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R rifles, you take the 5.56 and the low ground. I, I can't even dude your a fucking idiot. So, based on your SN, you were in the Army at one point yes? What did you do? I know what Clmbat Jack does. So I'd love to know how to weigh your experiences. Next question, during your time in the Army, were units only equipped with M16s? Did they have support weapons like light machine guns, sniper rifles, mortars, grenade launchers, heavy machine guns, artillery, tanks? |
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So we should have just stuck with the 5.56 rifles?!?! Are you trolling? Tell you what, I'll get on a high ridge line in a fighting position, and shoot at you with 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R rifles, you take the 5.56 and the low ground. I, I can't even dude your a fucking idiot. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I wonder if it has anything to do with the longer engagement distances encountered in theaters like Afghanistan. My unit was normally engaged from 800-1200 meters while we were in Gormach. (can't recall spelling) And from my understand that's pretty normal outside of the cities. 5.56 is next to useless at that range, which is why half way though our deployment we got a bunch of EBR's and 2 XM bolt action rifles for some of our DM's to use. Thats beyond the range of a DM as well. So we should have just stuck with the 5.56 rifles?!?! Are you trolling? Tell you what, I'll get on a high ridge line in a fighting position, and shoot at you with 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R rifles, you take the 5.56 and the low ground. I, I can't even dude your a fucking idiot. So, based on your SN, you were in the Army at one point yes? What did you do? I know what Clmbat Jack does. So I'd love to know how to weigh your experiences. Next question, during your time in the Army, were units only equipped with M16s? Did they have support weapons like light machine guns, sniper rifles, mortars, grenade launchers, heavy machine guns, artillery, tanks? |
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I'm guessing they're buying these to keep on hand as DMRs after they get a 5.56 replacement. Or maybe somebody just like .308 so he rammed a .308 rifle down the entire military's collective throat. Both are equally likely.
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I wonder if it has anything to do with the longer engagement distances encountered in theaters like Afghanistan. My unit was normally engaged from 800-1200 meters while we were in Gormach. (can't recall spelling) And from my understand that's pretty normal outside of the cities. 5.56 is next to useless at that range, which is why half way though our deployment we got a bunch of EBR's and 2 XM bolt action rifles for some of our DM's to use. View Quote Thats beyond the range of a DM as well. View Quote So we should have just stuck with the 5.56 rifles?!?! Are you trolling? Tell you what, I'll get on a high ridge line in a fighting position, and shoot at you with 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R rifles, you take the 5.56 and the low ground. I, I can't even dude your a fucking idiot. View Quote 1956 wants their terrible, misguided opinions on infantry rifles back. |
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Proving once again that ol' Eugene Stoner knew what he was doing. Until there is a drastic technology change in small arms I expect nothing will ever really top it.
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Quoted: Proving once again that ol' Eugene Stoner knew what he was doing. Until there is a drastic technology change in small arms I expect nothing will ever really top it. View Quote Agreed. It's quite surprising how well the original AR-10 did in the trials until the barrel split because a higher up in Armalite wanted a aluminum/steel hybrid barrel instead of a true steel barrel. Had the barrel not split, we would never had to deal with intermediate cartridges. Funny how fate works. |
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The Forests of Vietnam didn't give the Aussies any trouble with their L1A1 rifles. The Brits used theirs in Belfast and during the Troubles. Battle Rifles are still suitable in vast varieties of terrain and battlefields. View Quote And look at what elite units at all of those nations used then, and continuously until now. 7.62 belongs on belts. And even that should have been a 6.5. |
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So we should have just stuck with the 5.56 rifles?!?! Are you trolling? Tell you what, I'll get on a high ridge line in a fighting position, and shoot at you with 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R rifles, you take the 5.56 and the low ground. I, I can't even dude your a fucking idiot. View Quote Real military power does not come from individual small arms. If that is the first option you go to, you are doing it wrong. |
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[So, based on your SN, you were in the Army at one point yes? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Correct Quoted:
What did you do? My MOS was 13D, however I drove M1070 HET's my first deployment to Iraq in 05, got to do my actual job in 2008 in Iraq, and then in 2010 in Afghanistan I was a CoIST member for my unit, which had been tasked to perform a infantry mission. Quoted:
Next question, during your time in the Army, were units only equipped with M16s? Quoted:
Did they have support weapons like light machine guns, sniper rifles, mortars, grenade launchers, heavy machine guns, artillery, tanks? Depended on the unit and deployment. In Iraq (the first time) we had our persnoal weapons and the S.A.W. that were mounted on the gun trucks, which were mostly M2's, a few M240's and MK19 in the mix though. The 2nd time I was in 75 Fires BDE operating out of DIV HQ in Speicher, this is where I got to do my job, for at least half the deployment. I personally generated and sent 90 something fire missions (depending on who's counting). Later in that deployment I was sent with a small group of our guys to COP Courage to run a RAID-A system in Mosul with some QRF guys and shit Iraqi national army that we (not my unit) were training, which shot up the palace we stayed in a week prior to our arrival, which made things....tense between us. The last deployment, the one to Afghanistan, as I stated above I was a CoIST member in Gormach. We went in with a MTR team, most people had M4's a few like myself M16's, the new M320, nice new MRAP's of different types (can't recall their nomenclature, but they were of the smaller veriaty). We had a few guys with M240's, several with M249's. All vehicles had either a M2 or MK19 with the new crow's nest turrents, you know the setup where there's 3 cameras, laser range finder, etc. etc. I don't recall it's nomenclature either. But it was cool so long as your weapon didn't have a malfunction. There were several times our guys (wasn't in this one) got into prolong fire fights as tgt's of oppurtunity because they got stuck when farmers flooded their fields. When this happened the gunner had to climb on top of the damn thing to get the weapon functioning again. Which made him an EXCELLENT target. So those systems are good & bad. So, I never kicked in any doors, but I had rounds hitting inches away from me plenty of times, a few close calls from RPG's that luckily went over me, got hit by an IED etc. Just glad in Gormach we spotted the bastards trying to setup a 60mm MTR one night near our COP....Our MTR team couldn't hit the broad side of a damn barn t save anyone's life, but they came close every once in a while. ANA that was right there with us did have some sort of German ( I think) 105mm howitzer and some AA guns that were bad ass! They made our M2's sound like they were toys...But I think they were firing a 24-25mm round. Half way though the deployment is when we got the EBR's and those bolt actions. |
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Real military power does not come from individual small arms. If that is the first option you go to, you are doing it wrong. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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So we should have just stuck with the 5.56 rifles?!?! Are you trolling? Tell you what, I'll get on a high ridge line in a fighting position, and shoot at you with 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R rifles, you take the 5.56 and the low ground. I, I can't even dude your a fucking idiot. Real military power does not come from individual small arms. If that is the first option you go to, you are doing it wrong. I'm sure you didn't know this but I was an Artilleryman. We are the king of battle, trust me, I knew this. CAS for example can go stick.... put it this way several times they couldn't get desired effects after multiple drops, finally the ground commander would call for ARTY, 1 fire mission later, desired effects met. BUT In Afghanistan in very remote locations like we were at, guess what, CAS is often 30min away, and ARTY wasn't a realistic option since we had to help train the ANA to use their asset. And our MTR team was...well they could walk the rounds in, but forget about getting near the target on the first try. For whatever reason they loooved to use the 120mm MTR's. Personally I think thats why they couldn't hit shit. That thing is a pretty high angle round when you're not shooting it very far, which gives wind plenty of time to dick with it. |
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Quoted: And look at what elite units at all of those nations used then, and continuously until now. 7.62 belongs on belts. And even that should have been a 6.5. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: The Forests of Vietnam didn't give the Aussies any trouble with their L1A1 rifles. The Brits used theirs in Belfast and during the Troubles. Battle Rifles are still suitable in vast varieties of terrain and battlefields. And look at what elite units at all of those nations used then, and continuously until now. 7.62 belongs on belts. And even that should have been a 6.5. Maybe, 5.56mm is a pretty good round, but most special forces had shortened rifles and they had no serious need for larger caliber rifles until you get into terrain like Afghanistan or areas with a lot of wide open space. Even they use Battle Rifles every now and then when 5.56 can't cut the mustard. As to the 7.62 belonging on belts, maybe, but 5.56 on belt feds allow for greater suppressive properties thanks to an expanded reserve of ammunition at the gunner's disposal. Allowing to pin the enemy's head down for longer. And I will agree with you, it would be best that Squad Automatic Weapons and LMGs be chambered in a 6.5mm intermediate cartridge. |
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Maybe, 5.56mm is a pretty good round, but most special forces had shortened rifles and they had no serious need for larger caliber rifles until you get into terrain like Afghanistan or areas with a lot of wide open space. Even they use Battle Rifles every now and then when 5.56 can't cut the mustard. As to the 7.62 belonging on belts, maybe, but 5.56 on belt feds allow for greater suppressive properties thanks to an expanded reserve of ammunition at the gunner's disposal. Allowing to pin the enemy's head down for longer. And I will agree with you, it would be best that Squad Automatic Weapons and LMGs be chambered in a 6.5mm intermediate cartridge. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The Forests of Vietnam didn't give the Aussies any trouble with their L1A1 rifles. The Brits used theirs in Belfast and during the Troubles. Battle Rifles are still suitable in vast varieties of terrain and battlefields. And look at what elite units at all of those nations used then, and continuously until now. 7.62 belongs on belts. And even that should have been a 6.5. Maybe, 5.56mm is a pretty good round, but most special forces had shortened rifles and they had no serious need for larger caliber rifles until you get into terrain like Afghanistan or areas with a lot of wide open space. Even they use Battle Rifles every now and then when 5.56 can't cut the mustard. As to the 7.62 belonging on belts, maybe, but 5.56 on belt feds allow for greater suppressive properties thanks to an expanded reserve of ammunition at the gunner's disposal. Allowing to pin the enemy's head down for longer. And I will agree with you, it would be best that Squad Automatic Weapons and LMGs be chambered in a 6.5mm intermediate cartridge. compare 77 grain ballistics to standard 762. hell, even 118. the idea that 7.62X51 does more than 5.56 is archaic thinking. |
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Who gives a shit, when was the last time some Bundeswehr guy even took a shot in combat at anybody since WW2? Now if the rifle say had a bottle opener for Weizens back at the compound..then maybe View Quote I remember it making international news (with video of the engagement) when the German Army lit up a car trying to run a checkpoint in Bosnia. That was the first combat they had seen since WW2. I have seen a couple videos of them from Afghanistan. |
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Figures this thread gets traction after I subscribe to the other one.
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compare 77 grain ballistics to standard 762. hell, even 118. the idea that 7.62X51 does more than 5.56 is archaic thinking. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The Forests of Vietnam didn't give the Aussies any trouble with their L1A1 rifles. The Brits used theirs in Belfast and during the Troubles. Battle Rifles are still suitable in vast varieties of terrain and battlefields. And look at what elite units at all of those nations used then, and continuously until now. 7.62 belongs on belts. And even that should have been a 6.5. Maybe, 5.56mm is a pretty good round, but most special forces had shortened rifles and they had no serious need for larger caliber rifles until you get into terrain like Afghanistan or areas with a lot of wide open space. Even they use Battle Rifles every now and then when 5.56 can't cut the mustard. As to the 7.62 belonging on belts, maybe, but 5.56 on belt feds allow for greater suppressive properties thanks to an expanded reserve of ammunition at the gunner's disposal. Allowing to pin the enemy's head down for longer. And I will agree with you, it would be best that Squad Automatic Weapons and LMGs be chambered in a 6.5mm intermediate cartridge. compare 77 grain ballistics to standard 762. hell, even 118. the idea that 7.62X51 does more than 5.56 is archaic thinking. Awesome, we can chuck the heavy M240s and replace them all with M249 and MK46, lighter guns, lighter ammo. |
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Awesome, we can chuck the heavy M240s and replace them all with M249 and MK46, lighter guns, lighter ammo. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The Forests of Vietnam didn't give the Aussies any trouble with their L1A1 rifles. The Brits used theirs in Belfast and during the Troubles. Battle Rifles are still suitable in vast varieties of terrain and battlefields. And look at what elite units at all of those nations used then, and continuously until now. 7.62 belongs on belts. And even that should have been a 6.5. Maybe, 5.56mm is a pretty good round, but most special forces had shortened rifles and they had no serious need for larger caliber rifles until you get into terrain like Afghanistan or areas with a lot of wide open space. Even they use Battle Rifles every now and then when 5.56 can't cut the mustard. As to the 7.62 belonging on belts, maybe, but 5.56 on belt feds allow for greater suppressive properties thanks to an expanded reserve of ammunition at the gunner's disposal. Allowing to pin the enemy's head down for longer. And I will agree with you, it would be best that Squad Automatic Weapons and LMGs be chambered in a 6.5mm intermediate cartridge. compare 77 grain ballistics to standard 762. hell, even 118. the idea that 7.62X51 does more than 5.56 is archaic thinking. Awesome, we can chuck the heavy M240s and replace them all with M249 and MK46, lighter guns, lighter ammo. tracer burn out And for a lot of dismounted operations, thats exactly what happens. Maybe if we had some linked 262 we could do it more. |
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I'm sure you didn't know this but I was an Artilleryman. We are the king of battle, trust me, I knew this. CAS for example can go stick.... put it this way several times they couldn't get desired effects after multiple drops, finally the ground commander would call for ARTY, 1 fire mission later, desired effects met. BUT In Afghanistan in very remote locations like we were at, guess what, CAS is often 30min away, and ARTY wasn't a realistic option since we had to help train the ANA to use their asset. And our MTR team was...well they could walk the rounds in, but forget about getting near the target on the first try. For whatever reason they loooved to use the 120mm MTR's. Personally I think thats why they couldn't hit shit. That thing is a pretty high angle round when you're not shooting it very far, which gives wind plenty of time to dick with it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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So we should have just stuck with the 5.56 rifles?!?! Are you trolling? Tell you what, I'll get on a high ridge line in a fighting position, and shoot at you with 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R rifles, you take the 5.56 and the low ground. I, I can't even dude your a fucking idiot. Real military power does not come from individual small arms. If that is the first option you go to, you are doing it wrong. I'm sure you didn't know this but I was an Artilleryman. We are the king of battle, trust me, I knew this. CAS for example can go stick.... put it this way several times they couldn't get desired effects after multiple drops, finally the ground commander would call for ARTY, 1 fire mission later, desired effects met. BUT In Afghanistan in very remote locations like we were at, guess what, CAS is often 30min away, and ARTY wasn't a realistic option since we had to help train the ANA to use their asset. And our MTR team was...well they could walk the rounds in, but forget about getting near the target on the first try. For whatever reason they loooved to use the 120mm MTR's. Personally I think thats why they couldn't hit shit. That thing is a pretty high angle round when you're not shooting it very far, which gives wind plenty of time to dick with it. |
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I wonder if it has anything to do with the longer engagement distances encountered in theaters like Afghanistan. My unit was normally engaged from 800-1200 meters while we were in Gormach. (can't recall spelling) And from my understand that's pretty normal outside of the cities. 5.56 is next to useless at that range, which is why half way though our deployment we got a bunch of EBR's and 2 XM bolt action rifles for some of our DM's to use. View Quote So's the .308. |
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So we should have just stuck with the 5.56 rifles?!?! Are you trolling? Tell you what, I'll get on a high ridge line in a fighting position, and shoot at you with 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R rifles, you take the 5.56 and the low ground. I, I can't even dude your a fucking idiot. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I wonder if it has anything to do with the longer engagement distances encountered in theaters like Afghanistan. My unit was normally engaged from 800-1200 meters while we were in Gormach. (can't recall spelling) And from my understand that's pretty normal outside of the cities. 5.56 is next to useless at that range, which is why half way though our deployment we got a bunch of EBR's and 2 XM bolt action rifles for some of our DM's to use. Thats beyond the range of a DM as well. So we should have just stuck with the 5.56 rifles?!?! Are you trolling? Tell you what, I'll get on a high ridge line in a fighting position, and shoot at you with 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R rifles, you take the 5.56 and the low ground. I, I can't even dude your a fucking idiot. I can have a Mk12, night vision, and we're doing this at night. |
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So we should have just stuck with the 5.56 rifles?!?! Are you trolling? Tell you what, I'll get on a high ridge line in a fighting position, and shoot at you with 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R rifles, you take the 5.56 and the low ground. I, I can't even dude your a fucking idiot. Real military power does not come from individual small arms. If that is the first option you go to, you are doing it wrong. I'm sure you didn't know this but I was an Artilleryman. We are the king of battle, trust me, I knew this. CAS for example can go stick.... put it this way several times they couldn't get desired effects after multiple drops, finally the ground commander would call for ARTY, 1 fire mission later, desired effects met. BUT In Afghanistan in very remote locations like we were at, guess what, CAS is often 30min away, and ARTY wasn't a realistic option since we had to help train the ANA to use their asset. And our MTR team was...well they could walk the rounds in, but forget about getting near the target on the first try. For whatever reason they loooved to use the 120mm MTR's. Personally I think thats why they couldn't hit shit. That thing is a pretty high angle round when you're not shooting it very far, which gives wind plenty of time to dick with it. I laughed so hard I cried a little bit. |
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I can have a Mk12, night vision, and we're doing this at night. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I wonder if it has anything to do with the longer engagement distances encountered in theaters like Afghanistan. My unit was normally engaged from 800-1200 meters while we were in Gormach. (can't recall spelling) And from my understand that's pretty normal outside of the cities. 5.56 is next to useless at that range, which is why half way though our deployment we got a bunch of EBR's and 2 XM bolt action rifles for some of our DM's to use. Thats beyond the range of a DM as well. So we should have just stuck with the 5.56 rifles?!?! Are you trolling? Tell you what, I'll get on a high ridge line in a fighting position, and shoot at you with 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R rifles, you take the 5.56 and the low ground. I, I can't even dude your a fucking idiot. I can have a Mk12, night vision, and we're doing this at night. I would rather have a radio and map |
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I wonder if it has anything to do with the longer engagement distances encountered in theaters like Afghanistan. My unit was normally engaged from 800-1200 meters while we were in Gormach. (can't recall spelling) And from my understand that's pretty normal outside of the cities. 5.56 is next to useless at that range, which is why half way though our deployment we got a bunch of EBR's and 2 XM bolt action rifles for some of our DM's to use. Thats beyond the range of a DM as well. So we should have just stuck with the 5.56 rifles?!?! Are you trolling? Tell you what, I'll get on a high ridge line in a fighting position, and shoot at you with 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R rifles, you take the 5.56 and the low ground. I, I can't even dude your a fucking idiot. I can have a Mk12, night vision, and we're doing this at night. I would rather have a radio and map Nothing says hello quite like an Excalibur. |
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I'm guessing they're buying these to keep on hand as DMRs after they get a 5.56 replacement. Or maybe somebody just like .308 so he rammed a .308 rifle down the entire military's collective throat. Both are equally likely. 1956 wants their terrible, misguided opinions on infantry rifles back. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
I'm guessing they're buying these to keep on hand as DMRs after they get a 5.56 replacement. Or maybe somebody just like .308 so he rammed a .308 rifle down the entire military's collective throat. Both are equally likely. Quoted:
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I wonder if it has anything to do with the longer engagement distances encountered in theaters like Afghanistan. My unit was normally engaged from 800-1200 meters while we were in Gormach. (can't recall spelling) And from my understand that's pretty normal outside of the cities. 5.56 is next to useless at that range, which is why half way though our deployment we got a bunch of EBR's and 2 XM bolt action rifles for some of our DM's to use. Thats beyond the range of a DM as well. So we should have just stuck with the 5.56 rifles?!?! Are you trolling? Tell you what, I'll get on a high ridge line in a fighting position, and shoot at you with 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R rifles, you take the 5.56 and the low ground. I, I can't even dude your a fucking idiot. 1956 wants their terrible, misguided opinions on infantry rifles back. We never should have gone away from the M1 Garand. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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What's funny? View Quote You aren't on here much, but we know the bios of the guys on here pretty well. you have an artillery officer, an infantry officer, a guy who makes custom rifles for no shit .gov shooters (not your standard LEOs), and any number of former and current infantryman. You don't know the bios of the guys on here so when you lecture them its funny. |
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I wonder where their old G36 rifles will go. Lithuania uses G36s and G3s, wonder if they'll get these G36s to replace those clunky G3s. They've been giving a shit ton of G36s to the Kurds for use in Iraq against ISIS. Poor Kurds. The G36 belongs in a plastic garbage can. |
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I'm simply going off my experiences, in the above situation where support was very limited.
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The Forests of Vietnam didn't give the Aussies any trouble with their L1A1 rifles. The Brits used theirs in Belfast and during the Troubles. Battle Rifles are still suitable in vast varieties of terrain and battlefields. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I wonder if it has anything to do with the longer engagement distances encountered in theaters like Afghanistan. My unit was normally engaged from 800-1200 meters while we were in Gormach. (can't recall spelling) And from my understand that's pretty normal outside of the cities. 5.56 is next to useless at that range, which is why half way though our deployment we got a bunch of EBR's and 2 XM bolt action rifles for some of our DM's to use. That's what I'm thinking. Why? Does Germany really expect to be in Afghanistan for any longer than a handful of years? What happens when the battlefield changes to forests and urban areas? The Forests of Vietnam didn't give the Aussies any trouble with their L1A1 rifles. The Brits used theirs in Belfast and during the Troubles. Battle Rifles are still suitable in vast varieties of terrain and battlefields. I am guessing they had an abundance of 7.62mm in stock, probably a lot left from their G3 days. They also acquired a ton of 7.62x39 from the East, as well as a shit-ton of AK's, so they could have gone that route too. Humping a 7.62x51 weapon system is not all that difficult, and 200 rounds is not all that heavy. I was a 5'8" 160lb M-60 gunner and I managed just fine. I think the Germans made a fine choice. I would gladly carry a weapon that packed more punch than 5.56mm. Yeah, I love shooting it, but there are better rounds available today. |
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As for WHY they are doing what they are, duno. It's speculation on everyone's part. I simply though out an idea that wasn't the same as several others that had been posted.
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You aren't on here much, but we know the bios of the guys on here pretty well. you have an artillery officer, an infantry officer, a guy who makes custom rifles for no shit .gov shooters (not your standard LEOs), and any number of former and current infantryman. You don't know the bios of the guys on here so when you lecture them its funny. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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What's funny? You aren't on here much, but we know the bios of the guys on here pretty well. you have an artillery officer, an infantry officer, a guy who makes custom rifles for no shit .gov shooters (not your standard LEOs), and any number of former and current infantryman. You don't know the bios of the guys on here so when you lecture them its funny. Thanks for not being a prick, I suppose I have made enough of an ass out of myself in here. Got defensive and got stupid I guess. |
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Thanks for not being a prick, I suppose I have made enough of an ass out of myself in here. Got defensive and got stupid I guess. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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What's funny? You aren't on here much, but we know the bios of the guys on here pretty well. you have an artillery officer, an infantry officer, a guy who makes custom rifles for no shit .gov shooters (not your standard LEOs), and any number of former and current infantryman. You don't know the bios of the guys on here so when you lecture them its funny. Thanks for not being a prick, I suppose I have made enough of an ass out of myself in here. Got defensive and got stupid I guess. Its cool. |
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tracer burn out And for a lot of dismounted operations, thats exactly what happens. Maybe if we had some linked 262 we could do it more. View Quote Can a SAW do this? Dudes are making kills out to almost 1000m without tripods, not needing tracers since they use MGOs. Besides that, M80 is going to chew through cover that M855A1 can't. And since no one links MK262, and its shit for penetration, that's a moot point. A decent 6.5 round for LMG that can penetrate well would be awesome, but until the day LSAT is fielded if we intend to engage in fire fights at 800-1000m, then 7.62x51mm is going to be needed, at least in the form of a machine gun. |
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Can a SAW do this? Dudes are making kills out to almost 1000m without tripods, not needing tracers since they use MGOs. Besides that, M80 is going to chew through cover that M855A1 can't. And since no one links MK262, and its shit for penetration, that's a moot point. A decent 6.5 round for LMG that can penetrate well would be awesome, but until the day LSAT is fielded if we intend to engage in fire fights at 800-1000m, then 7.62x51mm is going to be needed, at least in the form of a machine gun. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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tracer burn out And for a lot of dismounted operations, thats exactly what happens. Maybe if we had some linked 262 we could do it more. Can a SAW do this? Dudes are making kills out to almost 1000m without tripods, not needing tracers since they use MGOs. Besides that, M80 is going to chew through cover that M855A1 can't. And since no one links MK262, and its shit for penetration, that's a moot point. A decent 6.5 round for LMG that can penetrate well would be awesome, but until the day LSAT is fielded if we intend to engage in fire fights at 800-1000m, then 7.62x51mm is going to be needed, at least in the form of a machine gun. 1000 Yard single burst kill? Yes. Especially if you define kill by the target going down. Since you don't even have to hit somebody to do that. the list of things penetrated by 7.62 but not by 855 is tiny. The fact is there is almost no tangible difference between the two. |
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There is already talk of scaling LSAT to use a 6.5MM bullet, which could replace the M249, M240, and Mk48.
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1000 Yard single burst kill? Yes. Especially if you define kill by the target going down. Since you don't even have to hit somebody to do that. the list of things penetrated by 7.62 but not by 855 is tiny. The fact is there is almost no tangible difference between the two. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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tracer burn out And for a lot of dismounted operations, thats exactly what happens. Maybe if we had some linked 262 we could do it more. Can a SAW do this? Dudes are making kills out to almost 1000m without tripods, not needing tracers since they use MGOs. Besides that, M80 is going to chew through cover that M855A1 can't. And since no one links MK262, and its shit for penetration, that's a moot point. A decent 6.5 round for LMG that can penetrate well would be awesome, but until the day LSAT is fielded if we intend to engage in fire fights at 800-1000m, then 7.62x51mm is going to be needed, at least in the form of a machine gun. 1000 Yard single burst kill? Yes. Especially if you define kill by the target going down. Since you don't even have to hit somebody to do that. the list of things penetrated by 7.62 but not by 855 is tiny. The fact is there is almost no tangible difference between the two. Killing is defined as purposeful taking of life. Not throwing bullets 200 meters past its max effective range in hopes that when they come down in an unstable manner they make the Taliban take cover. Besides, 1,000 meter effective fire with 5.56? If that happened you should write an article to publish in a professional journal because it will literally change the entire nature of infantry warfare. Studies have shown pretty conclusively that there is a rather large difference in pentration between 5.56 and 7.62. Even M855A1 doesn't penetrate most things like dirt, walls, or trees as well as M80 or newer M80A1 I heard is being fielded soon. For those that got in these longe range contacts in A-Stan, exactly how effective was enemy fire? Enough to prevent maneuver? |
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Who gives a shit, when was the last time some Bundeswehr guy even took a shot in combat at anybody since WW2? Now if the rifle say had a bottle opener for Weizens back at the compound..then maybe View Quote German Army casualties in AFG |
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We never should have gone away from the M1 Garand. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I'm guessing they're buying these to keep on hand as DMRs after they get a 5.56 replacement. Or maybe somebody just like .308 so he rammed a .308 rifle down the entire military's collective throat. Both are equally likely. Quoted:
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I wonder if it has anything to do with the longer engagement distances encountered in theaters like Afghanistan. My unit was normally engaged from 800-1200 meters while we were in Gormach. (can't recall spelling) And from my understand that's pretty normal outside of the cities. 5.56 is next to useless at that range, which is why half way though our deployment we got a bunch of EBR's and 2 XM bolt action rifles for some of our DM's to use. Thats beyond the range of a DM as well. So we should have just stuck with the 5.56 rifles?!?! Are you trolling? Tell you what, I'll get on a high ridge line in a fighting position, and shoot at you with 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R rifles, you take the 5.56 and the low ground. I, I can't even dude your a fucking idiot. 1956 wants their terrible, misguided opinions on infantry rifles back. We never should have gone away from the M1 Garand. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile In .276 Pederson. |
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1000 meters with a 5.56? Been done. By at least one member of this site.
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1000 meters with a 5.56? Been done. By at least one member of this site. View Quote Its done regularly in fact. But we have gone from individual weapons to belt feds now. Hey, krauty wants to rock his 600 417s, good on him. Must be based upon all their recent combat experience. I expect the rest of the world to go 7.62 soon. Its inherent superiority its intuitively obvious. |
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What round? What rifle? SAW with M855? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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1000 meters with a 5.56? Been done. By at least one member of this site. What round? What rifle? SAW with M855? so your measurement for an individual weapon is whether the belt fed equivalent can hit with a 7 round burst at 1000M off a bipod with say .50% probability by someone with 5 weeks of training? seems legit. |
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so your measurement for an individual weapon is whether the belt fed equivalent can hit with a 7 round burst at 1000M off a bipod with say .50% probability by someone with 5 weeks of training? seems legit. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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1000 meters with a 5.56? Been done. By at least one member of this site. What round? What rifle? SAW with M855? so your measurement for an individual weapon is whether the belt fed equivalent can hit with a 7 round burst at 1000M off a bipod with say .50% probability by someone with 5 weeks of training? seems legit. Comparing a precision rifle firing match ammo is a bit different than a SAW with ball ammo. But I'm sure you already knew that, because this topic was done to death in the Machine Gun thread, here, where others more experienced and knowledgeable than I told you that you that M240s were quite a bit more effective than SAWs. If you want to rehash it, go post back in that thread about how we can retire the M240 because everything it does a M249 can do. |
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Quoted: Its done regularly in fact. But we have gone from individual weapons to belt feds now. Hey, krauty wants to rock his 600 417s, good on him. Must be based upon all their recent combat experience. I expect the rest of the world to go 7.62 soon. Its inherent superiority its intuitively obvious. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: 1000 meters with a 5.56? Been done. By at least one member of this site. Its done regularly in fact. But we have gone from individual weapons to belt feds now. Hey, krauty wants to rock his 600 417s, good on him. Must be based upon all their recent combat experience. I expect the rest of the world to go 7.62 soon. Its inherent superiority its intuitively obvious. |
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