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Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:44:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 3:47:37 PM EDT by ColonelHurtz]
I have never owned a new car in my life.

I have owned a used car that actually made me money. I bought it for $300 cash, collected on 3 different accidents to the tune of c. $2500 and sold it to a scrapper for $150 after three years and 50,000 hard miles.

With a used car you don't have to carry comprehensive insurance
and most people don't bother.

The net makes it really easy to search and research used cars now.

I have also had good luck calling several wholesale brokers and telling them what I wanted. They'll either search for it wholesale or call you if they come across it.

My current auto is a ten year old, 54,000 original owner miles, certified old lady car.
Well kept, low mileage used cars are out there. You just have to look.

Colonel Hurtz
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:45:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 3:46:27 PM EDT by GLuttonousGourami]
I'm paying $438.00 per month for an '04 WRX. I love my car, but financing a new/slightly used car is not a mistake I will ever make again. Cash only for me from now on, or I go back to driving my 92 MX-6 with 190,000 on the clock. Car payments blow.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:45:52 PM EDT
If someone wasn't buying the new cars, you guys who stick to older used cars would have nothing to pick from. People are paying 500/month because thats what the loans work out to per month. New cars are pretty expensive these days.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:48:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mr_camera_man:
I just went up from a $300 payment to a $327 payment, but it's only for 48 months, when I had 42 months left on the car I was trading. I just got a new job that's paying me a whole lot of mileage, so the company is basically paying for the car. That's $327 per month for a Crown Vic LX with 18k miles and leather and loads of toys, so having an average payment of $500 for an average car is brain-damaged.

And no offense, but:


Originally Posted By schizrade:
Own both cars outright. Will buy my truck in the next 1-2 years and pay cash for it. Used F250/350 Diesel FTW!!! I have already talked dealers down to 22,000 for a used 2006 with 32,000 miles...

Car payments suck.


Why are you running around beating salesmen up on price and wasting their time if you know you're not buying for a year? The internet is a great place to do that kind of research, and you can do it from home in your leopard-print thong. Getting run around by people with no intention of buying is a significant part of why I just left car sales.


I have the intention of buying, just not right now. The internet cannot accurately reflect what a local market will be. If I looked at what others are paying, I would be a fool given that 90% of car buyers are apparently retarded and pay way too much to feel cool.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:48:26 PM EDT
There's one born every minute.

Colonel Hurtz
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:48:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By st0newall:
nothin wrong with 500 a month when your takehome is 8k a month and you dont have kids or a big mortgage...


Then you should be able to pay cash moneybags


The only time you would not do so is if you were earning outsize returns on your cash. In that case, it is better to borrow at 8% to buy a car, and keep your cash invested at a higher return.

YMMV.


Everyone is a Wall St / Hedge fund legend here.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:49:23 PM EDT
I paid my car off in 2 years and haven't had a car payment for 3 years now! Minimum of 5 more years to go in this car! I loooooooooooooove saving money. Wish I'd learned this lesson in my 20s instead of my 30s.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:49:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By capnrob97:

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By st0newall:
nothin wrong with 500 a month when your takehome is 8k a month and you dont have kids or a big mortgage...


Then you should be able to pay cash moneybags


The only time you would not do so is if you were earning outsize returns on your cash. In that case, it is better to borrow at 8% to buy a car, and keep your cash invested at a higher return.

YMMV.


Everyone is a Wall St / Hedge fund legend here.


No, but making absolute statements, when there are plenty of exceptions, is rarely correct.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:49:52 PM EDT
Wow....my truck payment was only like 230.00 I put 6k down on it tho.


Now it is a pile of twisted,mangled steel sitting in a junk yard.

Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:51:55 PM EDT
Do you know what "upside down" means in the auto finance world?

If you are going to buy a new car, at least pay it off in 2 or 3 years.

Colonel Hurtz
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:53:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 3:54:55 PM EDT by kaizoku]

Originally Posted By Tannim:

Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:
Cars are like Big Mac's. You buy them to consume them. People that worry about the "value" of a vehicle after it's in their driveway are retarded.

I drive a 98 civic with over 150,000 miles on it. I'll pass it on to my son when it hits 200k. Then I'll buy another car and consume it until I'm tired of it. If somebody wants to give me some money for my trash thats fine. If they don't well thats fine too. Once I'm done with a car it holds the same value to me as a bag of kitchen garbage.


+1

The idea of resale value is moronic to me. I'm not planning on selling my car. When I wreck it or it falls apart, I'll chuck it.



+1 I took out a very small loan to buy my newest fun-mobile, a 95 Jeep Grand Cherokee.

It has low mileage and I know how to fix it so, barring $8.00/gal gas, I'm good to go for another 150,000 miles or so.

Should I have paid cash? Probably, but it wouldn't have gotten me a better price, the loan will be paid off within 2 years, and I have the cash to invest at a higher percentage than my interest rate. No worries here.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:53:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By capnrob97:

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By st0newall:
nothin wrong with 500 a month when your takehome is 8k a month and you dont have kids or a big mortgage...


Then you should be able to pay cash moneybags


The only time you would not do so is if you were earning outsize returns on your cash. In that case, it is better to borrow at 8% to buy a car, and keep your cash invested at a higher return.

YMMV.


Everyone is a Wall St / Hedge fund legend here.




The last member that lectured me on returns?

Well, a year or so later I find a thread about his plan to get out from under debt!

If I averaged more than 8% returns a year these past 10 years - I'd be doing backflips. I guess I am one of the few unlucky ones. I've done worse than that - and then had fees to pay.

In the short 3-4 year interval that a car note is good for - I've done MUCH worse.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:58:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ColonelHurtz:
Do you know what "upside down" means in the auto finance world?

If you are going to buy a new car, at least pay it off in 2 or 3 years.

Colonel Hurtz


My roommate fits that definition perfectly. He had an older S10 that ran like a champ, it just needed a new starter and muffler. He didn't feel like fixing it, and got a raise at work, so went out and bought a Honda Element for some ridiculously high price at 16% interest.

Now, 4 months later, he's tired of the payments and thinks he'll sell it with enough to break even or maybe even come out ahead. Riiiiiiiight.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:05:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By st0newall:
nothin wrong with 500 a month when your takehome is 8k a month and you dont have kids or a big mortgage...


Then you should be able to pay cash moneybags


The only time you would not do so is if you were earning outsize returns on your cash. In that case, it is better to borrow at 8% to buy a car, and keep your cash invested at a higher return.

YMMV.


I'd like to see where you can get a safe 8% return on cash. That was true 18 yrs ago (9% on govt bonds).

Sure, you may do better in stocks, but on a short term basis, you could also lose 30%.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:07:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By st0newall:
nothin wrong with 500 a month when your takehome is 8k a month and you dont have kids or a big mortgage...


Then you should be able to pay cash moneybags



Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:09:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mr_camera_man:
The internet is a great place to do that kind of research, and you can do it from home in your leopard-print thong.
wtf?
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:18:37 PM EDT
Everyone looks down on me while I drive around in my long paid for '91 Volvo or '95 F150. I can't help if you are better than me while you are driving around the bank's car. More money for guns and ammo!
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:26:15 PM EDT
A guy trades in a S10 for an Element ?

Watch out for your cornhole, bud!

Colonel Hurtz
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:32:29 PM EDT
i have a 2006 dodge ram 1500 hemi thunderroad quad cab and i pay almost 650 a month for it with now problem. and the insurance on it is 2200 a year and i have a perfect driving record
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:34:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 4:37:46 PM EDT by OLY-M4gery]
I don't care.

I'll pay my $900+ per month for my car and truck. I got the money I can spend it how I please.

My last 2 cars were paid off rather quick. One in 3 years, used, that I kept for several years after, until '99 when it died with 162K miles on the clock. My next car had 125K when I got it, and paid it off 3 months later. It lasted 8 years, until it too was to injured to continue.

After those years of cars that only kinda worked, and had systems in them that were dead. Not to mention paying to fix stuff..........

I bought 2 2005 used vehicles.

I don't buy a lot of perishable stuff with my money, and have more than enough at the end of every month.

So those trying to tell others how you want them to live, or finance their lives, can STFU then FOAD.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:39:11 PM EDT
My current one is less then that, at 1.9% rate.

Last one was a low payment but I payed 3-4times the min payment
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:48:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ColonelHurtz:
A guy trades in a S10 for an Element ?

Watch out for your cornhole, bud!

Colonel Hurtz


Maybe he was from Chicago? www.chicagocornholeclassic.com/
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 5:06:59 PM EDT
Saving approx $450 - $550 a month for a car. That excludes money being saved for a house and for retirement. Figure in about 5 years I'll purchase one... In the meantime, I'll be making approx 5% on that money. Insurance on my current car is <$600 a year. I do own that car (gift from my parents), and I have my own insurance. Not bad for a 22 year old.

I love watching those accounts grow. Somehow, it offsets not owning the latest and greatest toys. I live well below my means.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 5:09:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Royicus:
Saving approx $450 - $550 a month for a car. That excludes money being saved for a house and for retirement. Figure in about 5 years I'll purchase one... In the meantime, I'll be making approx 5% on that money. Insurance on my current car is <$600 a year. I do own that car (gift from my parents), and I have my own insurance. Not bad for a 22 year old.

I love watching those accounts grow. Somehow, it offsets not owning the latest and greatest toys. I live well below my means.


Good for you!

I have done the same since 22, and have a house paid off and 2 cars, will retire around 50 yo.

Keep up the saving!
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 5:10:00 PM EDT
I have one more year of $1150 in vehicle payments. I should be good for 10 years or so.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 5:11:22 PM EDT
$210/month for my 02 xterra. Thank god for farm loan discount
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 5:37:47 PM EDT
Also the Dealership f$#%ccks you out of most of your down payment right off the bat. Its beter to go to a bank with a dwn pymnt at least half of the cost of the car and get a letter. Then go back to the dealership without revealing that the you brought your own financing. Talk them downout off their front-end and back-end. and when your signing the papers slap down the letter of finance from the bank.


They will HATE YOU!!!!!

Dont tell them before hand that your financing through the bank or the will never come down.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 5:57:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 6:24:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:


I will also chime in on the issue of cash not getting you the best deal. I have bought several brand new cars in my life, and I assure you cash will indeed get you the best deal. The salesmen will tell you that they prefer making loan sales, because they get more commision in them, and that may be true, but it doesn't mean that they won't make a cash buyer a better deal. It comes down to common sense. When I bought my 99 LHS I bought it cash. It's sticker was 33.5K I paid less than 24K, and drove the car out of the showroom (the service manager drove it out of the showroom for insurance or safety reasons actually). I went to several dealers first, I told wach of them what I was willing to pay, they all laughed and told me to get real. At each one I left my card with my home number on the back.


I appreciate that you've bought several new cars but in the eight years that I sold BMWs averaging selling 15 BMWs (along with other new brands the dealership offered) per month in a town of about 65,ooo people I can confirm that cash does not always get you a better deal. The strategy you outlined above works very well but it works with financing just as well as cash. Salespeople by and large do not make commission on the finance end of the purchase. The finance dept. does but the guy on the sales floor doesn't care about the finance guy when it comes down to it. But again- cash does not matter. A dealer will sell you a car at invoice or less whether you finance it or not. The dealer's cost for the car doesn't change because there is someone in the showroom with a bucket full of cash.
Sometimes if an old "haggler" walks in and says he is "paying cash- give me the best deal" a salesperson will use that to their advantage. Like this- "Mr Smith, we normally can't discount this car more than $1200 but since your paying cash we'll discount it $2500". The reality is they would have discounted it $2500 anyway. Now- turn it around- "Mr. Smith since you're going finance this car with the manufacturer we'll give you a special discount of $2500 instead of the normal $1200". Perception is reality- don't believe me? Go sit in a showroom one day while your car is in service and listen to the negotiations. The methods will change according to the customer and each situation.
Bottom line is you can buy most any car for invoice or less regardless of whether you pay cash or finance. Use whatever method you feel works best for you.
Cash doesn't mean a thing to a car salesman unless your credit sucks and there isn't any other way for him to sell you a car. Cash, finance, lease- it doesn't matter, ultimately that salesperson has one goal and that is to see you drive over the curb.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 6:29:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 6:29:33 PM EDT by MillerSHO]
I'll take my 90 accord with 130K miles and my 2006 mountain bike with 1800+ miles over $500 a month car payments ANY DAY.

Link Posted: 8/14/2007 6:30:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By st0newall:
nothin wrong with 500 a month when your takehome is 8k a month and you dont have kids or a big mortgage...


Then you should be able to pay cash moneybags


is sometimes about cashflow, and better places to put your money .. and 0 percent or very low interest....

sometimes i pay cash.. sometimes i stretch it out.. depends...
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 6:36:26 PM EDT
I'm not a really big used car fan. Just about froze to death in a piece of shit used car. No thanks. I'd rather know the history on the vehicle. Now if you are talking about a 2 -3 year old program car, I definitely could do that.

It's funny asking people why they are selling their used cars. They won't normally admit it's a damn money pit and a complete piece of shit...
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 6:37:51 PM EDT
OUch. I payed about 199 for my first and only new vehicle.

I think I'll keep that around for awhile. I was looking for a new vehicle, but my truck only has 74k on it. Should last me a couple more years.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 6:40:59 PM EDT
Both my rides are paid for.
Couldn't imagine paying $500 a month for a car.
Don't be surprised, some luxury cars leases are more than that.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 6:59:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 7:00:10 PM EDT by Royicus]

Originally Posted By capnrob97:

Originally Posted By Royicus:
Saving approx $450 - $550 a month for a car. That excludes money being saved for a house and for retirement. Figure in about 5 years I'll purchase one... In the meantime, I'll be making approx 5% on that money. Insurance on my current car is <$600 a year. I do own that car (gift from my parents), and I have my own insurance. Not bad for a 22 year old.

I love watching those accounts grow. Somehow, it offsets not owning the latest and greatest toys. I live well below my means.


Good for you!

I have done the same since 22, and have a house paid off and 2 cars, will retire around 50 yo.

Keep up the saving!


Oh but it is so hard when I want to join the gun a month club

Guess I'll have to let the pixels satisfy me for now, and look at pictures of everyone else's guns. Aw man...
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 7:02:01 PM EDT
It's because everyone lives outside their means.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 7:15:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mazeman:
We own two cars, and have no payments.

I do make monthly "payments" to a seperate money market account, so the next car I'll buy with cash. It's nice to earn interest on those "payments" rather than pay interest for the loan.

Over the years my car pride has diminished, which is nice, since they're one of the worst investments out there.


I do exactly the same. No car payment since 2000. Now, granted I drive these things until the wheels fall off, so I might have a $1000 repair (like right now ) every fourth year. But, amazingly that is still only 2 months average car payment. I would still rather save the cash, make interest on it, pay for repairs when the thing has 150,000 miles on it, and depreciate it by driving it whilst paid off.

BTW, my frugality gets me plenty of teh womenz....they see that I drive a crappy old ranch truck, but I also own a big ranch...they get it.

After all, cars are NEVER an investment at all in the true sense of the word. They always lose you money. The only value you get is in the transportation.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 7:30:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pogo:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By st0newall:
nothin wrong with 500 a month when your takehome is 8k a month and you dont have kids or a big mortgage...


Then you should be able to pay cash moneybags


Pay cash when you can get 6 years of payments at 0-2.9%?

Ya right. And no thanks, I don't to pay it off early.


I agree. I am paying 1.9% interest on my wife's explorer. I make more return than that with the cash that I could have used to just pay for it. No sense in throwing money out the window.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 7:33:44 PM EDT
I bought a 5 year old Ford F-150 with a 4.2 V-6 in nice condition for $4500 cash. It will be a reliable truck for many years to come and gets 20 mpg, New cars are a great way to loose lots of money.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 7:41:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By st0newall:
nothin wrong with 500 a month when your takehome is 8k a month and you dont have kids or a big mortgage...


Then we should expect you to be the next team member.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 7:52:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By divkat9:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
I haven't had car payments in almost 8 years.

Feels good to make interest and not pay it.

Also feels good to get a great car for rock bottom price by paying cash.


No doubt it's better to pay cash and be done with but the thought that you get a rock bottom price by paying cash is a myth. You can get a "rock bottom price" on a car whether you pay cash, lease, or finance. Of course with the last two options you are paying interest.
Bottom line is cash no longer gives you greater negotiating power on the purchase price of a vehicle at a dealer.


Dealer?

I'm cash savvy , I buy from individuals and get a carfax report. I can get a better deal from a dealer also. Broke = desperate = stupid and dealers smell that.


+1. I haven't stepped foot in a car dealership since 1992 (other than to buy overpriced "genuine GM" parts that I can't get at AutoZone).

Look through the classifieds. They have excellent deals if you know what you're looking for. In my experience people who sell their cars through the paper tend to be pretty open about the vehicle's history, plus they tend to sell it at a fairer price because they're not looking to make a profit from the sale like a dealer is.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 7:58:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TGFB:

Originally Posted By st0newall:
nothin wrong with 500 a month when your takehome is 8k a month and you dont have kids or a big mortgage...


Then we should expect you to be the next team member.


Maybe he's saving up for a bathroom?
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 8:00:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 8:03:08 PM EDT by USMC88-93]
I went 17 years between car purchases, and refuse to buy used.

1989 Nissan Hardbody Pickup to 2005 Jeep Unlimited Rubicon. So while I will only buy new I feel it is justified by the length of time between purchases.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 8:01:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jnojr:

Originally Posted By N1Rampage:

Buy a used car that only has about 2 or 3 years on it, and it's 1/2 to 1/4 the original price.


Yeah, but how do you know it wasn't drag-raced off of the lot at redline with 6 miles on the odometer, or that the oild was ever changed?



Exactly, you don't, and that's the tradeoff. Everyone can make their own choices as far as what to buy, new/used, expensive, cheap, whatever. Far be it from me to tell something "YOU MUST BUY A USED CAR". WTF cares. Buy what you want. I've bought new, I've bought used. I'll do both in the future.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 8:03:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By realwar:
Well how else are people suppose to buy a new car?You got 40K laying around?Most people dont so they have to finance the car.


As several have stated, new cars are a waste of money. Can't afford it, then buy used.

I never had, and never will buy a new car.

Link Posted: 8/14/2007 8:12:43 PM EDT
I don't think I could stomach paying > 500.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 8:19:20 PM EDT
Never had a new car or truck and never will.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 8:22:05 PM EDT
Paying $0 currently
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 9:10:18 PM EDT
Bought a new Suzuki DR650 last year,$5400,financed through HSBC,@$48/mo. Just made my last payment this month,paid it off in $500/mo. Use this to go to work.

Bought an 02 Jeep Liberty,drove the hell out of it for 6 mo,traded it in on a used 05 Jeep Wrangler. Payments are $439 a mo. Ran into the guy who bought my old Liberty,who was trying to trade it in. Dealer didn't want anything to do with it,the Liberty was basically falling apart.

Going to pay off the Jeep about 2 years early,and I'll still have basically a slightly used Jeep when it's done(work is only about 2-3 miles away).
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 9:52:17 PM EDT
I guess I "earn" and average of $6000 more than most then.

4 cars and a motorcycle. No payments.

I'm always impressed by how many Arfcommers manage their debt effectively.
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