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Posted: 1/12/2006 7:49:58 AM EDT
[#1]
Eh...pilots never did have much respect for the ground pounding grunts.... |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 7:50:50 AM EDT
[#2]
i guess waiting is the better choice, it would just piss me off though sweating to death with all the gear on. My friend said most of the house hits didnt go so smooth. He left the team after shooting a hostage accidentally. I guess things are more regulated now days. He also told me his team was sent to LA for the riots and it turned into a turkey shoot. Said it was a lot worse than most know. |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 7:53:30 AM EDT
[#3]
you like chuck huh? |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 7:55:48 AM EDT
[#4]
Most SWAT raids go smoothly in that nobody ends up shot at the end of them, good guy or bad guy. If your buddy was on a team where most raids didn't go well, then they needed some serious restructuring.
Big red flag there.
I don't believe the police shot many people during the LA riots. Their tactic was to stand back and let them riot. It sounds more and more like your friend isn't being honest with you. |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 7:57:48 AM EDT
[#5]
Chuck is his own SWAT team. |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 7:59:33 AM EDT
[#6]
i would have said that too in the past but another friend of mine was on the Amarilo PD for a while and flew into LA during that whole mess and said there was a whole lot of shooting. He said he was surprised that it didnt all make it to the media. |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 8:01:07 AM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 1/12/2006 8:02:03 AM EDT
[#8]
i met him when he was shooting the pilot downtown Ft. Worth for walker. He cant be his own Swat team; you have to be at least 5 ft tall. |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 8:05:20 AM EDT
[#9]
John_Wayne777
Don't take that comment as disrespect it wasn't to be taken that way. Some pilots do have respect for law enforcement.  The only problem I have ever had with any LEO was being called a glorified bus driver. His prisoner got to enjoy Vegas a little longer, while they waited for the next flight. |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 8:05:32 AM EDT
[#10]
Plenty of people were taking shots at the cops. That's one of the reasons they backed off a bit. To my knowledge (and please correct me if I am wrong here) they didn't send in snipers to start whacking dangerous rioters to the point that it was a "turkey" shoot. I thought I remembered seeing a picture somewhere at the time of a bunch of black and whites parked at one of the stations that all had bullet holes in them.... |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 8:06:39 AM EDT
[#11]
No disrespect taken. Besides, I am not a cop.  |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 8:08:07 AM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 1/12/2006 8:11:52 AM EDT
[#13]
well my friend Ron said once the shooting started they backed off initially. Then he said a guy jumped on the hood of their car with with a 9mm. He said it quickly went downhill from there before it got better. |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 8:12:04 AM EDT
[#14]
That makes sense. I do know they tried to protect EMS and Fire folks so they could do their jobs. But I think they even abandoned that as things got worse. People criticized the lack of LAPD response (including myself) but short of opening up on crowds to try and restore order, there wasn't a whole lot they could do. It was a combat zone and going in would have ensured a lot more bloodshed than there was. |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 8:12:44 AM EDT
[#15]
Now THAT I can believe. |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 8:17:47 AM EDT
[#16]
Arsenal the green of envy clashes with your ensemble. I know several of those Dallas SWAT guys personally, and they're a great bunch of guys. Sure they come off as a little arrogant, but that filming's been going on a long time and all you're seeing is the edited version. "I guess you have to have a jackass attitude to get up enough courage to go againts a high point wearing full lvl 3 body...." You really come across as a condescending punk with the above quote. What exactly should they do, strip down to their T shirts and send only one guy in because the barricaded suspect only has a "high point?" Did it ever occur to you that they work off the intelligence they have, and only know after the fact what weaponry the suspect really had and their mindset? Grow up, just because you can't play the game don't be so jealous of those that can. |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 8:23:52 AM EDT
[#17]
jealous, sure im am ..... I so want to get call in the middle of the night cause some guy has cornered himself in his house to kill himself. i dont have the patients for that job , let the gun talk its their fault they are in that position. However thats not professional , that why i never elected to be a police officer. |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 8:33:42 AM EDT
[#18]
I don't know about the rest of the stuff, but the ignorance of firearms does annoy me. Its not so much that they aren't firearms enthusiasts that gets me, its just that if you are going to spout off as if you were some kind of expert and make attempts to scare people about these 'scary' guns, then you should at least know the fucking difference between an AK and an SKS.
And its not that I am coming down on cops either. I get annoyed by the same shit in gun stores. If I ask a clerk a question and they don't know the answer, then that's cool. But when you get these guys in guns stores (clerks and customers) who will sit there and spout off ignorant crap and act like know-it-alls, that gets annoying. And that is a principle that applies to everything, not just firearms. If you don't know what the fuck you are talking about, or maybe you are just not an expert, then that's cool. Nothing wrong with that. But when you pretend to be an authority on a subject when you really are nothing of the sort, especially with the intent of getting a reaction out of people, then you look stupid and are stupid. Of course, it pisses me off even worse when someone is doing this and contributing to enemy (anti) propoganda. ETA: on a related note, to all of the libtard reporters and the small number of police chiefs or what have you that haven't got a clue: if you can't tell the difference between a fucking AK and grandad's shotgun, then who the hell are you to tell me what i can and can't own, and at what point i become a felon by changing one little insignificant feature on a weapon that you probably cannot identify correctly anyway, which means you probably don't know what it is or is not capable of either  |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 8:42:50 AM EDT
[#19]
Well said. It's the sense of being an authority on the subject matter when we know otherwise, that gets me. Example: I was looking for holsters at my local gun shop. I asked for some opinions, since I presumed that nearly everyone behind the counter carried. He insisted that my full size 1911 was difficult to conceal, then showed me his Colt Commander as an example of an easy-to-conceal alternative.  Aye. |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 8:44:16 AM EDT
[#20]
What a drama queen! A shitty little single shot 12Ga chopped off to about 12 inches with a cheap laser sight attached. Yeah, I think these guys ham it up just a bit for the cameras.
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Posted: 1/12/2006 8:47:41 AM EDT
[#21]
I watched one episode of Dallas SWAT last Saturday.
I thought it was interesting that they brought in 2 snipers, an APC and 2 entry teams (with machine guns, bullet proof helmets, body armor and the whole 9 yards) and then pulled the windows off of a house because there was a guy inside with a knife, but when they went after the Meth dealer all they took was 1 AR.
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Posted: 1/12/2006 8:52:37 AM EDT
[#22]
Fucking TV bullshit. Yeah it is supposed to be 100% real and all that, but it is STILL TV and subject to editing and EDITORIALIZING by the network producing it.
I can't remember which one, the PIT Bull channel one, but the show is ANTI GUN. It is VERY subtle, but they did a raid on a firearms traffickers place after 5 minutes of talking about how "GUN CRIME" is going up because of more "ILLEGAL WEAPONS"; instead of talking about how "crime was going up". Instead of worrying about tactics and the roles of SWAT, worry about the roles the shows are playing, shaping the minds of the gullible and ignorant, thinking that SWAT and BATFE are the good guys. Shit, 99% of the time SWAT would not even EXIST, if it was not for lenient judges letting criminals go over and over and over, until they turn into people that need to be SWATTED. |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 8:54:26 AM EDT
[#23]
tactics baby , tactics lol Everyone knows you need an armored APC for a guy with a knife. |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 8:56:06 AM EDT
[#24]
true, 10cent solution |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 9:01:25 AM EDT
[#25]
What a bunch of horseshit! Our team served a warrant this morning. The target house was a 5,000 sq. ft. home on about a two acre lot. The back yard was about 75 yards long, and then you had a canal. The front yard was about 50 yards off the roadway. The entire property was lined with tall trees and fences. I was positioned with another sniper in the back of the home. We had to stalk our way to our position in the sand and mud along the canal. I assure you, there were no elevated positions for us to use. You have to learn to adapt to the environment, and most of the time, the environment does not cooperate. As far as the tv show, I won't comment, cuz I haven't seen it. ETA: This guy we took down was dirty. Without getting into it, this guy had a pretty good arsenal. Had about 30 rifles. We teamed up with two other agencies and sent in about 30 SWAT guys. No one got hurt and the guy was captured. |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 9:08:04 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
What some of these "dipshits" lack in the knowledge of proper tactics they make up for in a willingness to kill anyone in their path. Determination is more important than tactics. A determined grandma with a .22 pistol is still enough to make a SEAL entry team duck.... Wait a second. I have watched all these shows, even numerous other shows in SWAT teams. The vast majority of the time the "dipshits" surrender because they are NOT willing to kill anyone in their paths. Unarmed people in drive by's yes, but engaging well armed well trained SWAT teams in close quarter combat....barely a chance. Look, I am not disparging the SWAT teams but they know, as the guy admitted last night, that the use of suprise and disorientation overwhelmingly leads to surrender from the bad guys. I mean for god sake, they were stuck outside the house last night and could not make entry....And the Badass gangsta comes crawling out on his belly???? Yeah, one bad as mo fo. |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 9:10:45 AM EDT
[#27]
And the SKS and the AK fire the same round, in case you didn't know. Yeah, but they are not the same gun.....they dont even look alike if you look closely |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 9:16:05 AM EDT
[#28]
The best way to tell if a SWAT team is really good ....... is by how much hair gel they wear. The best operators always have the best hair......no, seriously.
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Posted: 1/12/2006 9:48:34 AM EDT
[#29]
No, they surrender because they don't want to die. Not because they have some moral objection to the use of violence. The whole reason SWAT is being sent after these types is because they have a history of violent behavior.
If they are willing to kill unarmed people in drive by's then they ARE willing to kill anyone in their path. The reason they don't often shoot at the SWAT team is because: 1. SWAT tactics are designed specifically to prevent them from doing so 2. Shooting the first guy through the door will lead to the next 4 guys blowing you into little tiny pieces. The bad guys surrender when SWAT shows up because they don't want to die.
Just like most traffic stops are peaceful. That doesn't mean there is no risk. The funny thing about doing that job is you never know when you are going to be rolling up on a guy who will go quietly and some hardcore nutcase who isn't going back to jail and wants to take some cops with him.
Who said everything goes according to plan all the time??? Some people deliberately set their houses and yards up to delay the SWAT team enough that they can flush contraband or try to escape. It is strategic thinking on the part of these crackheads that are supposed to be devoid of the ability to think or coordinate anything, remember??
The SWAT team wasn't there because he was caught speeding. They were there because his history or situation was RISKY. Go collar some of those bad "mofos" yourself if you don't believe me. |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 9:50:05 AM EDT
[#30]
The funny thing is that you don't know what a guy is armed with all the time until AFTER the event is over. Knowing that do you take the bare minimum you have to, or do you try to show up with more capability than what you hopefully will need? |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 9:51:30 AM EDT
[#31]
No, they don't look alike. But anyone can mess up when they are on camera trying to explain a whole lot in a little time. Especially when the difference between an AK with a 30 round magazine and an SKS with a 30 round magazine is pretty negligible from a practical standpoint. They are both usually reliable as tanks and can put a hurting on you with their 7.62x39mm round. |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 9:53:46 AM EDT
[#32]
No, the best way to tell is to look for the telltale lines on the hood of their vehicles where they skipped rounds across them! Saw some FBI guys do that at a "demo" once.... |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 11:29:02 AM EDT
[#33]
this is true, hope for the best and prep for the worst. However, it looks like major over kill when it turns out to be nothing. |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 11:58:52 AM EDT
[#34]
You guys who are bashing SWAT may want to remember, IIRC, that Steve Clagett (?) of Dallas' SWAT team advanced a lot farther in USA Network's "Combat Missions" than some former Delta Force (Ed Bugarin), Marine Recon, and SEALs (Scott Helveston, God Bless, RIP).
I thought the ponytailed CIA guy "Baz" was a clown initially but he really proved himself. |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 12:06:19 PM EDT
[#35]
no doubt they can carry the load, its the attitude and knowledge |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 12:15:07 PM EDT
[#36]
Yeah I have to admit there is way too much talk. I laughed my ass off when I saw the POS shotgun with a laser on it
 Honestly I would rather have those guys on my side than an internet comando. They aren't on the SWAT team because they are good bullshitters.
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Posted: 1/12/2006 1:28:32 PM EDT
[#37]
OMG man - you must be a Radio Talk Show Host on Air America....You took everything I said out of context and added stuff I never intended or implied....and did it quite well...John Wayne or moire correctly - Al Franken??? I'm not even gonna bother with the insinuations you threw back. |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 2:54:13 PM EDT
[#38]
I quoted you directly and responded to specific points you mentioned. Deal. |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 4:17:13 PM EDT
[#39]
Ok. Lets try this again. Originally posted by you. What some of these "dipshits" lack in the knowledge of proper tactics they make up for in a willingness to kill anyone in their path. Determination is more important than tactics. A determined grandma with a .22 pistol is still enough to make a SEAL entry team duck.... My response to this statement of yours and yours alone was the following: "Wait a second. I have watched all these shows, even numerous other shows in SWAT teams. The vast majority of the time the "dipshits" surrender because they are NOT willing to kill anyone in their paths." This was in direct response to your previous comment, specifically, What some of these "dipshits" lack in the knowledge of proper tactics they make up for in a willingness to kill anyone in their path - In your response to broke out my statement to two different sentences, changes the entire meaning as a whole of the paragraph I wrote. I then further qualified my first response with stating, "Unarmed people in drive by's yes, but engaging well armed well trained SWAT teams in close quarter combat....barely a chance." In regards to them killing anyone in their path. Quite simply, they are NOT willing to kill anyone in their path as you stated, because clearly SWAT was in their path and in their HOUSE no less and they did not engage them. Which I further emphasized by pointing to the fact that crackhead came crawling out on his belly. Case in point, I then stated the following to further bolster that point. "Look, I am not disparging the SWAT teams but they know, as the guy admitted last night, that the use of suprise and disorientation overwhelmingly leads to surrender from the bad guys. I mean for god sake, they were stuck outside the house last night and could not make entry....And the Badass gangsta comes crawling out on his belly???? Yeah, one bad as mo fo." What I find most amusing is you stated, "What some of these "dipshits" lack in the knowledge of proper tactics." Then in your post in response to me, you quite humorously said, "Who said everything goes according to plan all the time??? Some people deliberately set their houses and yards up to delay the SWAT team enough that they can flush contraband or try to escape. It is strategic thinking on the part of these crackheads that are supposed to be devoid of the ability to think or coordinate anything, remember??" Strategic thinking is synonymous tactics is it not. Anyway, I'm tired of people twisting and bending words, and sentences into entirely different meanings than what was intended by the author. And that is what you did, and what I was trying to point out. Anyway II, I'm done with this. If you don't get it . |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 4:28:18 PM EDT
[#40]
I'd rather have someone who can shoot well and can cover me in a gunfight, rather than the guy who can spot the country of origin of the AK the perp is weilding, but thats just me.hinking.gif
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Posted: 1/12/2006 4:38:23 PM EDT
[#41]
+1 I know alot of those guys, and some other members of Dallas SWAT that arent on the show. These guys may have a cavalier attitude, but thats ok, they earned it. Dallas SWAT is one of the great SWAT teams in the history of SWAT. They beat San Diegos ass on a consistant basis, but then again, who hasnt. These fellas dont really go seeking the camera, the camera seeks them. Steve Claggett is one of the nicer people I've had the pleasure of meeting. He's a team leader, so of course he gets more airtime than others. As for going in saying there was an AK, they went on what their CI said was in there. If I'm being told by my only intell, that there is a possibility of Avtomat Kalashnikov, I'm going in there thinking there's going to be one, and prepare accordingly. When one officer said that the sawed off shotgun waould zip through his vest, he was speaking of the slugs they removed from the weapon and the extras from the apartment. |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 7:48:07 PM EDT
[#42]
THis weeks episode was much better. More action, less BS.
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Posted: 1/12/2006 8:00:37 PM EDT
[#43]
My airchair commando take I always like to comapre them to Platt and Matix in Miami in 1986, 2 guys with a minimum of infantry training and a mini 14 and a shotgun did a shitload more damage than those guys from LA with 1000s of rounds from machine guns I am much more scared of someone who can run a weapon and has at least some idea of tatics oh yeah looked like he aimed somewhat too as compared to the asshats in LA LINK |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 8:02:03 PM EDT
[#44]
you were prolly never a sniper so here is some info. Being on the ground level gives him a better angle on any threat inside the house. Being to high, he would not be able to see as far into the house do to the roof line obsurring his field of view. Trust me, they know what they're doing. If you dont think so, take'em on and find out for yourself. So they dont know a whole lot about weapons they DONT use, show me some military guys that do. |
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Posted: 1/13/2006 12:32:21 AM EDT
[#45]
My issue with the show TEXAS SWAT is where they deliberately misidentify and exaggerate the capabilites of weapons for the purposes of scaring the unknowing public.
Examples: 1) Referring to the captured AK-47 as "illegal" or saying that they are "suddenly" popping up everywhere due to some sort of increased availability and affordability. 2) Describing what was most likely a semi-auto MAC-10 as a machine pistol. the narrating officer says how the MAC, can "spray down a room" while the show then cuts away to what is a department Glock 18 firing on water bottles. 3) The show misstakes that the captured AK can fire 600 rounds per minute. That same AK is fired by an officer and is clearly semi-automatic. It is shows like this that will spew the bullshit that will lead to a second AWB.
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Posted: 1/13/2006 12:47:20 AM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 1/13/2006 12:47:28 AM EDT
[#47]
LOL  Yeah I noticed Dallas SWAT followed the GQ looking guys, the ones with John Bunnell hair, and mostly ignored the average looking Barney Fifes.
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Posted: 1/13/2006 3:46:07 AM EDT
[#48]
Yes they ARE willing to kill anyone in their path. SWAT tactics are designed to STOP them from doing so. The criminals SWAT attacks are usually only interested in preserving their own hides, and even then they frequently encounter suicidal idiots who want to take someone with them. Barricaded suspects are a frequent problem and are one of the reasons SWAT was invented. Some crackheads come out on their belly. Others shoot at the SWAT team and then shoot themselves, as last night's episode demonstrates. The trouble is that you never know which kind you are facing until the whole thing is over.
If responding to exactly what you wrote upsets you, then perhaps you should just be quiet from now on. |
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Posted: 1/13/2006 5:15:16 AM EDT
[#49]
I need popcorn
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Posted: 1/13/2006 5:34:46 AM EDT
[#50]
You might. He has been "done" twice now, so that means he will probably be back in 10 minutes....
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