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Posted: 1/18/2015 10:26:31 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Loop hole is a talking point word the left made to demonized those who make and produce things in this country. You either follow the tax codes or you don't, loop holes are a canard. Our tax system is generous to the poor and unfair to everyone else especially w2 people. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I have to admit upfront that I am young and largely uneducated in economics. Something that have never quite made sense to me, are tax loop holes. And to be honest, I don't believe I've ever seen a proper discussion on this topic in GD. Does anyone want to explain why they exist, and why they are good or bad in the grand scheme of economics? Would a flat income tax percentage across the board for all income - be more or less fair than our current tax system?  Loop hole is a talking point word the left made to demonized those who make and produce things in this country. You either follow the tax codes or you don't, loop holes are a canard. Our tax system is generous to the poor and unfair to everyone else especially w2 people. This. and add the fact that these so called loop holes are created so the govt can weild power and influence people. ETA. give the govt the power of income tax, and then the govt decides who pays it and how much and who doesn't give the govt the power to require a license for a business to sell guns and all of a sudden the govt decides who can buy guns and who can't. it isn't just tax codes, it is everything the govt touches. It is corrupt to the core, systemically. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 10:26:49 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Again, I don't mean to beat a dead horse or sound like a broken record, butttttt.... Get rid of any and all income tax. Go with strictly a flat sales tax. No more 1040's to have filled out by whatever tax preparer or accountant who is trying to look for whatever loopholes for you. No more submitting bullshit paperwork to the government. You pay the sales tax at the register. Let's say you're just some poor schlub who can only afford Dickies work jeans. They cost $20 a pair. Let's say the federal flat sales tax is 25%. So out the door, your jeans cost you $25. Your brother is some white collar managerial type who likes to flaunt his wealth. He has to have Ralph Lauren or Tommy blue jeans. They cost $90 a pair. His pants are $112.50 out the door. You don't want to pay X amount in (sales) taxes to the government, buy your shit second hand or from Goodwill or Salvation Army...or just don't have "champagne taste on a beer budget". There! That's your loophole. Can I get an AMEN! |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 10:27:06 AM EDT
[#3]
I like the loopholes we had in the old days. The Reagan Tax Reform wiped them out. Thanks Ronnie.
That said, I think we should dissolve the Eye Are Us and shrink the size of the gubmint. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 10:27:07 AM EDT
[#4]
Businesses don't really pay taxes because it's just another cost of doing business that gets passed on to consumers. All corporate taxes do is raise prices and create legions of tax accounting/attorney/compliance jobs that further raise prices of goods and services.
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Posted: 1/18/2015 10:27:54 AM EDT
[#5]
Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes.
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Posted: 1/18/2015 10:29:21 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not really. The system is dramatically tilted towards wealthy homeowning parents. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Our tax system is generous to the poor and unfair to everyone else especially w2 people. Not really. The system is dramatically tilted towards wealthy homeowning parents. Wealthy has no bearing on taxes really. How you earn wealth is the bigger variable. The guy making $1mm who is on W2 is getting no slack on taxes. Now the guy who earns $1mm in the s-corp he owns has many ways to lower his tax liability and structure his compensation package. In this example $1mm is arbitrary, the same would be true if each were earning $40k. Basically most wealthy people make money in business and there are plenty of ways to change taxes in the business world, the dollar signs aren't the biggest variable that dictates who pays what. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 10:33:08 AM EDT
[#7]
Loopholes are only one part of the problem.
The other, and more egregious problem, is that not everyone pays the same % of tax. That's bullshit. Loopholes need to go away to reduce the complexity of the tax code, but we need to get the rest of the leeches to pay their share. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 10:37:18 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Loopholes are only one part of the problem. The other, and more egregious problem, is that not everyone pays the same % of tax. That's bullshit. Loopholes need to go away to reduce the complexity of the tax code, but we need to get the rest of the leeches to pay their share. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 10:37:36 AM EDT
[#9]
There should be a flat tax and no gov. subsidies to anyone. Don't worry, the Republicans are in charge and ready to fix all this.
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Posted: 1/18/2015 10:39:47 AM EDT
[#10]
if a tax break is coded in law its not a "loophole".
If I qualify for a "loophole" I'm happy. If someone else does and I don't I don't give shit, I don't do class envy Loopholes should all be abolished along with all the other tax laws and we should go to a flat tax. It's time the poor start paying their fair share. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 10:39:50 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Loopholes are only one part of the problem. The other, and more egregious problem, is that not everyone pays the same % of tax. That's bullshit. Loopholes need to go away to reduce the complexity of the tax code, but we need to get the rest of the leeches to pay their share. I don't think anyone could make the case that our tax system isn't all fucked up. Obama's just the last motherfucker on earth I'd pick to be in charge of the fix. Look at healthcare. 
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Posted: 1/18/2015 10:41:49 AM EDT
[#12]
There should be a loophole that prohibits a person with no income at all from getting a 10K plus refund. There should be a loophole that limits noncitizens from getting a refund of anymore than excess withholding instead of the 10-20K they currently get.
I would like to see a loophole that awards prison time to those who get large refunds using fraudulent information. As it currently sits those caught in flagrant fraud see no punishment, they just don't get a refund until the "fraudulent amount is recovered", they get another Tax ID Number to use, and are back at it next January. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 10:43:09 AM EDT
[#13]
I would not call them loopholes but our current tax code is meant to incentivize and discourage certain behaviors. The mortgage deduction for instance is to encourage home ownership. the deduction for charitable contributions is to encourage giving to charity. Cigarette and other "sin" taxes are meant to discourage you from those behaviours.
somewhere along the line original reason for taxes, to fund the government became perverted to a system that also tries to engineer society to the liking of the governmental elite. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 10:44:07 AM EDT
[#14]
I want to add a phrase to this conversation.
Social engineering |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 10:49:55 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Define: Loophole Exactly. People that whine about tax "loopholes" are no different than the ones complaining about so called gun show "loopholes". The laws are the law and the tax code is the tax code. Don't like it, get the law/codes changed. A business follows the tax code and takes advantage of the rules as they are written are somehow evil people that need to pay their fair share, but when individuals/families take advantage of child tax credits, earned income credits, etc, it's not evil, they are just being smart.  Need to go to a flat tax that everyone pays and no more people getting tax refunds when they didn't even put anything into the system to begin with.
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Posted: 1/18/2015 10:52:15 AM EDT
[#16]
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we need flat tax no loop holes. You don't get money for making babies or paying daycare flat tax that everyone pays. Biggest problem is its hard to pay taxes on entitlements that already use funds appropriated from other taxpayers like food stamps, housing and obamacare. There is a significant number of people in this country who fit that mold and still wouldn't pay a lick. Socialism....its all about fairness!!! |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 10:53:15 AM EDT
[#17]
"Loophole" means anything the government does not control yet. Federal, state and local governments choose winners and losers based on who they can get to vote for it. For instance small children have a tax "loophole" in that they don't pay taxes. The 50- percent of the US population does not pay income tax, they do pay retail tax, are taxed through the lottery, and so forth. My parents are not paying Federal income taxes this year because mom's nursing home care is 90 percent of their annual income. Actually, the term "loophole" means a tax law that the used of the word does't like.
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Posted: 1/18/2015 10:55:52 AM EDT
[#18]
If the deductions or tax rates were intended as written they aren't technically loopholes. A loophole is a mistake or an omission in a law that's some smart person finds after the fact and takes advantage of.
loop·hole 'lo?op?(h)ol/Submit noun 1. an ambiguity or inadequacy in the law or a set of rules. "they exploited tax loopholes" synonyms:means of evasion, means of avoidance; |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 11:00:06 AM EDT
[#19]
on a related topic, I see this shit all the time, sometimes the term loophole is used sometimes it's corporate welfare.
Some states will give a tax incentive to a business to move to their state to create jobs, etc. This makes the current governor look good and can brag about "creating jobs" when it's reelection time. Inevitably, some of these states will be in a revenue crunch and there'll be an outcry about "corporate welfare" given to these companies. It's not fair for existing companies not to get breaks when new ones do and of course, no one should get breaks at all I guess. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 11:06:28 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Define: Loophole this..some would consider deducting mortgage interest from your taxes a loophole. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 11:10:41 AM EDT
[#21]
The vast majority of what people generally call loopholes are by design and actually incentives or behavior drivers. For the most part when people say that the wealthy or corporations exploit tax loopholes just helps me identify the morons. That doesn't mean there aren't actual loopholes in the tax code though. The one that gets my goat is inversion; some believe it's ok, but it was not by design, it was only a recent discovery by clever accountants to skirt taxes in a primarily US-domiciled company. I like the idea of American jobs, but buying a foreign company and re-registering your US company there to avoid taxes only hurts the US and sends money to another country.
However the Tax Code is in DIRE need an overhaul, as it is VERY poorly written/designed in it's current state (way too complicated). I'm a big van of the flat tax, mainly as it eliminates the burden that illegals, and their legal children have on the economy, as well as providing a proportionate way for everyone to contribute. I'm also a believer in capping Capital Gains, which many don't like. But someone having an income of over $5mm to only pay an effective tax rate of 15%, when I pay 25% is not paying their fair share. I don't believe they should pay a higher percentage than me (or others), but there shouldn't be a large disparity on effective rate just because I earn the majority of my Income via payroll, and they earn the majority of their Income via capital appreciation. I do agree that capital gains should be a low % for a fairly high amount of earnings, but once you reach a certain level, it should be considered ordinary income, or taxed at a tiered rate, much like Income, and not as simple as short-term/long-term. Similar beliefs as Warren Buffet. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 11:12:22 AM EDT
[#22]
loop·hole
'lo?op?(h)ol/ noun
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Posted: 1/18/2015 11:16:00 AM EDT
[#23]
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I'm surprised we have members who can't comprehend this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I don't have a handy definition of 'loophole' but I find it ridiculous that a company as profitable as General Electric pays zero in taxes. Year after year. There are some fucky things in the tax codes that make that possible. GE pays a metric fuck-ton of taxes, including property taxes on the buildings it owns, utility taxes on the power and water it consumes, fuel taxes, etc. GE's profits are also taxed, it's assessed as income taxes on the dividends it pays out to shareholders. I'm surprised we have members who can't comprehend this. All I can figure is that some (alot of) people think that these corporations must have a huge vault where they just keep accumulating all these profits in $1 and $10 bills. They can't comprehend that the surplus revenue are paid out to share holders as dividends, paid to employees as bonuses, reinvested in the company to increase output, holdings, given to charity, and a whole bunch of other "loopholes". Just because there is a CEO making $15 mil a year doesn't make the corp any less of a conglomeration of people. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 11:23:21 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
we need flat tax no loop holes. You don't get money for making babies or paying daycare flat tax that everyone pays. Flat tax. No loopholes... I hate taxes. Hate them with a passion. I honestly do. But I also hate tax cheats... 
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Posted: 1/18/2015 11:23:40 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All I can figure is that some (alot of) people think that these corporations must have a huge vault where they just keep accumulating all these profits in $1 and $10 bills. They can't comprehend that the surplus revenue are paid out to share holders as dividends, paid to employees as bonuses, reinvested in the company to increase output, holdings, given to charity, and a whole bunch of other "loopholes". Just because there is a CEO making $15 mil a year doesn't make the corp any less of a conglomeration of people. There are a lot of companies that are sitting on billions right now. That's one of the big problems with not letting companies bring profits back into the US so they can pay it out as taxes and dividends. I do think CEO pay is out of line, as it is harming shareholders. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 11:26:13 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: loop·hole 'lo?op?(h)ol/ noun
That's the best answer I've seen yet.
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Posted: 1/18/2015 11:33:48 AM EDT
[#27]
The idea of explaining the Byzantine US tax code in a couple of sentences made me chuckle.
A flat tax is more burdensome on the working poor, we will not see it. Looking at the percentage of income paid as tax as a comparator gives a false impression of who is paying what. As others have mentioned income is taxed in various ways depending on how it was earned. The more one earns, or has , the more likely an expert in tax avoidance is earning some money from that person. Warren Buffet was mentioned, his paltry 17% is going to be millions of dollars more than some physician's 40% on a 250k income, which does not include the various ways said physician hid some of his/her income. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 11:43:03 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm surprised we have members who can't comprehend this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I don't have a handy definition of 'loophole' but I find it ridiculous that a company as profitable as General Electric pays zero in taxes. Year after year. There are some fucky things in the tax codes that make that possible. GE pays a metric fuck-ton of taxes, including property taxes on the buildings it owns, utility taxes on the power and water it consumes, fuel taxes, etc. GE's profits are also taxed, it's assessed as income taxes on the dividends it pays out to shareholders. I'm surprised we have members who can't comprehend this. All businesses pay 0 taxes. Period. Any costs they incur as a matter of regulation are passed onto their customers in the form of product pricing. I'm surprised we have members who can't comprehend that. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 11:46:54 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A flat tax is more burdensome on the working poor, we will not see it. I disagree. You'd have to eliminate Social Security payroll taxes and pay from the general fund. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 11:49:15 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All businesses pay 0 taxes. Period. Any costs they incur as a matter of regulation are passed onto their customers in the form of product pricing. I'm surprised we have members who can't comprehend that. Functionally that's mostly correct. The way that taxes are paid can have an effect, however. When taxes are paid on dividends it is conceivable that a company would hold on to cash. When you tax wealth they'll get rid of cash like a hot potato. When you tax income they'll be less sensitive to costs, etc. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 12:03:39 PM EDT
[#31]
Bad, not because they are a loophole, but because they serve one of two purposes, a favor to a political donor or attempting to force taxpayers to conform to some government wish.
Flat tax with no write offs just a minimum threshold where collection begins. I would have bought a house even without the write off and if I were paying a flat tax I would not need the deduction. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 12:07:34 PM EDT
[#32]
The mortgage interest tax deduction is a good example here... It encourages people to buy ever larger houses. They were always going to buy a house, but the government helped them get a few extra rooms.
That just bad policy. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 12:20:39 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
I have to admit upfront that I am young and largely uneducated in economics. Something that have never quite made sense to me, are tax loop holes. And to be honest, I don't believe I've ever seen a proper discussion on this topic in GD. Does anyone want to explain why they exist, and why they are good or bad in the grand scheme of economics? Would a flat income tax percentage across the board for all income - be more or less fair than our current tax system? Loopholes are either deductions or credits. They are the government "encouraging" you to do something instead of something else. For instance, insulating your primary residence will give you something to deduct. This means everyone else's rates are a little higher to pay for that deduction and it makes taxes that much more complicated. They are interfering with the market whenever they do this sort of thing which is bad. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 12:31:52 PM EDT
[#34]
In principle they are bad because it allows those with me ney to shelter income. However in practice they are good because our tax code is fucked up and punative. This is reason 87 we should move toward a flat consumption based tax system.
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Posted: 1/18/2015 12:42:23 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Really blunt answer: The people we elected, appointed people who were experts in their fields, who designed a tax code they felt would offer the best national income without the least negative economic effect. We can argue about them being right, or wrong, or corrupt. But at the end of the day: appointed people who are educated in these topics, designed tax codes the way they deemed to be correct. You are looking at it from a micro economic perspective, and they are looking at it from a macro economic scale. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Income Is taxed differently, capital gains versus, earned income versus unearned income, tax free income etc. want to blow your mind, there are bonds I can buy in which I pay 0 taxes on the interest regards if it's 1$ or 100000$ dollars. The media as a whole are ignorant when it comes to the business world Why are capital gains taxed differently than income? Someone could use a shovel all day long and earn an income that requires a 25% income tax, yet a different guy can sit on a computer and trade stocks and pay a much smaller tax on his income. How does that help the economy on the grand scheme of things? Again, I am just asking, because I really don't understand the economics behind it. Really blunt answer: The people we elected, appointed people who were experts in their fields, who designed a tax code they felt would offer the best national income without the least negative economic effect. We can argue about them being right, or wrong, or corrupt. But at the end of the day: appointed people who are educated in these topics, designed tax codes the way they deemed to be correct. You are looking at it from a micro economic perspective, and they are looking at it from a macro economic scale. It's more like lobbyists convince congress to put in deductions / subsidies in the tax code to help their clients. For instance, someone mentioned the home mortgage interest deduction. That makes it a little cheaper to finance a house so there are a number of groups that are in favor of this. (builders, lenders, real estate agents etc) It also distorts the market. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 12:43:59 PM EDT
[#36]
I would support a tax system with only two or three brackets, no deductions (none, at all) and a floor for taxable income.
So, basically, you'd have a 0% bracket to about $30,000 and then a few bracket above that. The IRS would mail out a one page summary and most people would sign it and return it and that would be it for the year. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 12:51:53 PM EDT
[#37]
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Your argument is that GE should be off the hook because their employees paid income tax. The same is true of every company in the US, so you're really saying that no company should pay tax. GE benefitted from being in a secure country, with a good infrastructure, and stable policies. That is clearly of value and GE ought to be paying for the value it gives the company. If that isn't of value, they should have already moved to Argentina. But they won't because they're getting a free ride where they can garner the benefits of being in the US without having to pay for those benefits. GE is Quote HistoryQuoted:
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<snip> Really blunt answer: The people we elected, appointed people who were experts in their fields, who designed a tax code they felt would offer the best national income without the least negative economic effect. We can argue about them being right, or wrong, or corrupt. But at the end of the day: appointed people who are educated in these topics, designed tax codes the way they deemed to be correct. You are looking at it from a micro economic perspective, and they are looking at it from a macro economic scale. I think that's a gross simplification or maybe naivete. It may have been true in the past. Lol.. sure. I paid roughly 10k in income tax last year. All of GE (to reference your other post) paid 0. In the end GE contributed exponentially more to the GDP, employment figures, and overall community benefit than I or my measly 10k could hope to accomplish. Shit, assuming you're totally correct, how much did all of GEs employees pay in income tax combined? Is the incentive of "no income tax" on one entity, worth the enticement of an ungodly number of employees? Na.. I'm nieve Your argument is that GE should be off the hook because their employees paid income tax. The same is true of every company in the US, so you're really saying that no company should pay tax. GE benefitted from being in a secure country, with a good infrastructure, and stable policies. That is clearly of value and GE ought to be paying for the value it gives the company. If that isn't of value, they should have already moved to Argentina. But they won't because they're getting a free ride where they can garner the benefits of being in the US without having to pay for those benefits. GE is GE paid out dividends to the shareholders / owners of the company. Taxes would have been paid on those. Saying GE didn't pay any tax is like saying people that don't pay income tax don't pay taxes, there are a lot of different taxes, sales, property etc. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 12:52:47 PM EDT
[#38]
I would say "bad," because they come into being through a desire to either conduct social engineering or through the lobbying of special interest groups. Few are left open "accidentally."
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Posted: 1/18/2015 1:46:31 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why are capital gains taxed differently than income? Someone could use a shovel all day long and earn an income that requires a 25% income tax, yet a different guy can sit on a computer and trade stocks and pay a much smaller tax percentage on his income. How does that help the economy on the grand scheme of things? Again, I am just asking, because I really don't understand the economics behind it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Income Is taxed differently, capital gains versus, earned income versus unearned income, tax free income etc. want to blow your mind, there are bonds I can buy in which I pay 0 taxes on the interest regards if it's 1$ or 100000$ dollars. The media as a whole are ignorant when it comes to the business world Why are capital gains taxed differently than income? Someone could use a shovel all day long and earn an income that requires a 25% income tax, yet a different guy can sit on a computer and trade stocks and pay a much smaller tax percentage on his income. How does that help the economy on the grand scheme of things? Again, I am just asking, because I really don't understand the economics behind it. Where do you think that wealth was created to buy that stock and then trade it? Money doesn't just appear. Also, short term capital gains are taxed as ordinary income, IE held less than one year. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 1:47:34 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lots of interesting answers so far.... "Capital gains are taxed at a lower rate than income tax because of the inherent risk involved" - that does make sense. that and that money put to work should have been taxed already unless you borrowed the money, they we are talking about leverage and the risk goes up exponentially. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 1:49:53 PM EDT
[#41]
I think you'll find loopholes are actually incentives. Special legislation for special interests.
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Posted: 1/18/2015 1:51:42 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where do you think that wealth was created to buy that stock and then trade it? Money doesn't just appear. Also, short term capital gains are taxed as ordinary income, IE held less than one year. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Income Is taxed differently, capital gains versus, earned income versus unearned income, tax free income etc. want to blow your mind, there are bonds I can buy in which I pay 0 taxes on the interest regards if it's 1$ or 100000$ dollars. The media as a whole are ignorant when it comes to the business world Why are capital gains taxed differently than income? Someone could use a shovel all day long and earn an income that requires a 25% income tax, yet a different guy can sit on a computer and trade stocks and pay a much smaller tax percentage on his income. How does that help the economy on the grand scheme of things? Again, I am just asking, because I really don't understand the economics behind it. Where do you think that wealth was created to buy that stock and then trade it? Money doesn't just appear. Also, short term capital gains are taxed as ordinary income, IE held less than one year. All capital gains should be taxed as ordinary income, and the rate for ordinary income should be lower. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 1:52:10 PM EDT
[#43]
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This is why we can't have nice things. GE capital lost $32 billion, they then carried forward some of those losses. Stop parroting the talking points of the left and read their financial statements for yourself. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I don't have a handy definition of 'loophole' but I find it ridiculous that a company as profitable as General Electric pays zero in taxes. Year after year. There are some fucky things in the tax codes that make that possible. This is why we can't have nice things. GE capital lost $32 billion, they then carried forward some of those losses. Stop parroting the talking points of the left and read their financial statements for yourself. http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/07/investing/big-oil-price-energy-stocks/index.html No one is looking at oil companies record profits nowadays....oops, $200 billion loss..... 
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Posted: 1/18/2015 1:53:42 PM EDT
[#44]
Andrew Mellon, 1924:
The fairness of taxing more lightly incomes from wages, salaries and professional services than the incomes from business or from investments is beyond question. In the first case, the income is uncertain and limited in duration; sickness or death destroys it and old age diminishes it. In the other, the source of the income continues; the income may be disposed of during a man's life and it descends to his heirs. Surely we can afford to make a distinction between the people whose only capital is their mental and physical energy, and the people whose income is derived from investments. Such a distinction would mean much to millions of American workers and would be an added inspiration to the man who must provide a competence during his few productive years to care for himself and his family when his earning capacity is at an end. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 1:53:59 PM EDT
[#45]
Flat tax, period.
Loopholes or whatever you want to call them, only serve to engineer behavior. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 3:05:15 PM EDT
[#46]
Three questions:
1. When you submit a 1040 and you knowing lie on it to save yourself some money, and the IRS catches you, is it a civil matter or a criminal matter? (I don't know what tenets there are of being a Soverign Citizen, but I suspect that if the IRS treats it as a criminal matter, how does submitting a 1040 not violate your 5th Amendment protections against self incrimination?) 2. When people buy food using their EBT or Link card, or maybe clothes with their WIC card, are those purchases taxed just the same as if they were paying cash? 3. For all you guys saying that a flat income tax rate across the board would be fair, does a flat SALES tax sound more fair? Look at how many people are not working and supposedly not giving up an income tax. To me at least, with all these illegals working here doing all these cash on the barrelhead jobs, the only way to "capture" part of their income would be with a larger FLAT SALES tax. They are still buying their food, gasoline, and clothes here. And what could be fair-er than a flat sales tax? Nobody is holding a gun to your head to buy the $50 MP3 player or the $200 iPod. It's your choice on how much you want to pay in sales tax. Every time I hear people talk about a "fair tax", I envision this gadget called a "doubletree". 
It pivots in the middle where it attaches to the wagon or stage coach. As one horse pulls ahead of the other, the doubletree pivots so that the horse lagging behind still shares the load. As near as I can tell, there is nothing in our economy that forces us to share the load, equally. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 3:42:42 PM EDT
[#47]
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Can I get an AMEN! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Again, I don't mean to beat a dead horse or sound like a broken record, butttttt.... Get rid of any and all income tax. Go with strictly a flat sales tax. No more 1040's to have filled out by whatever tax preparer or accountant who is trying to look for whatever loopholes for you. No more submitting bullshit paperwork to the government. You pay the sales tax at the register. Let's say you're just some poor schlub who can only afford Dickies work jeans. They cost $20 a pair. Let's say the federal flat sales tax is 25%. So out the door, your jeans cost you $25. Your brother is some white collar managerial type who likes to flaunt his wealth. He has to have Ralph Lauren or Tommy blue jeans. They cost $90 a pair. His pants are $112.50 out the door. You don't want to pay X amount in (sales) taxes to the government, buy your shit second hand or from Goodwill or Salvation Army...or just don't have "champagne taste on a beer budget". There! That's your loophole. Can I get an AMEN! |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 3:44:10 PM EDT
[#48]
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All capital gains should be taxed as ordinary income, and the rate for ordinary income should be lower. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Income Is taxed differently, capital gains versus, earned income versus unearned income, tax free income etc. want to blow your mind, there are bonds I can buy in which I pay 0 taxes on the interest regards if it's 1$ or 100000$ dollars. The media as a whole are ignorant when it comes to the business world Why are capital gains taxed differently than income? Someone could use a shovel all day long and earn an income that requires a 25% income tax, yet a different guy can sit on a computer and trade stocks and pay a much smaller tax percentage on his income. How does that help the economy on the grand scheme of things? Again, I am just asking, because I really don't understand the economics behind it. Where do you think that wealth was created to buy that stock and then trade it? Money doesn't just appear. Also, short term capital gains are taxed as ordinary income, IE held less than one year. All capital gains should be taxed as ordinary income, and the rate for ordinary income should be lower. I can't argue with that. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 3:45:49 PM EDT
[#49]
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This is more of the typical talking head crap. Evil lobbies everywhere, assaulting us through "special interest". Give me one example if tax code that is written specifically in reference to a single corporation or interest group by name. Truth is, you too can benefit from tax code. Just build a multi generation, publicly traded, corporation that benefits the entirety of the nation (or globe). Then hire several hundred people for accounting and tax law compliance they'll hook you up, for an annual price higher than your entire life time tax contributions. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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<snip> Really blunt answer: The people we elected, appointed people who were experts in their fields, who designed a tax code they felt would offer the best national income without the least negative economic effect. We can argue about them being right, or wrong, or corrupt. But at the end of the day: appointed people who are educated in these topics, designed tax codes the way they deemed to be correct. You are looking at it from a micro economic perspective, and they are looking at it from a macro economic scale. I think that's a gross simplification or maybe naivete. It may have been true in the past. This is more of the typical talking head crap. Evil lobbies everywhere, assaulting us through "special interest". Give me one example if tax code that is written specifically in reference to a single corporation or interest group by name. Truth is, you too can benefit from tax code. Just build a multi generation, publicly traded, corporation that benefits the entirety of the nation (or globe). Then hire several hundred people for accounting and tax law compliance they'll hook you up, for an annual price higher than your entire life time tax contributions. IIRC, 401k was originally intended for a specific person, but others started using it. In any event, industries have lobbing groups that they fund. For instance, the wind energy industry lobbies for more subsidizes for their product. Without subsidies, the wind energy business we have today would mostly not exist. Special interest groups are usually more than one entity. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 3:47:25 PM EDT
[#50]
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Flat tax, period. Loopholes or whatever you want to call them, only serve to engineer behavior. For business also? Because that would really hurt cap ex. Without the ability to deduct expenses with potential projects their net present value would not be high enough to justify taking on the project. If you mean for w2 folks, then that's another story. |
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