Some of you guys need to really get out more. Yes, a lot of the romantisism of crouching dragon esque shit is completly legend and made up. I have seen and practiced with these guys when they toured the states. To be fair, Martial monks are the real deal. There are monks who are not nearly as skilled and train and teach at the National training Center and they mainly do what is refered to as Wu-Shu, more of a Tae Kwon Do watered down style (what you would see at a National Tae Kwon Do / Karate Do tournament) The paul mitchell bullshit tournaments come to mind.

Regarding Chinese and groundfighting, Shuai Chiao has practiced since ~300BC. Also see Chin-Na (joint locking and muscle tearing). No, not every style has or uses groundfighting skills, mostly the Northern Styles stay away from groundfighting.

Most Americans will not endure classical training, so you will not see much crediable instruction in the states, but there are some out there(very, very few).  

Quoted: Quoted: Whole lotta moves, and no true contact. Two skilled men, who can see the opponents moves coming. What would be more interesting would be Kung Fu guy meets heavyweight boxer, in the ring. Skilled defense verses irregular attack & overwhelming power. Id like to see either one of them against any of the main players in the UFC, I can see a orthodox martial artist getting their ass kicked really fast.

Go back to the original UFC matches and you see a lot of the Tae Kwon Do guys getting their heads stomped into the mat by the grapplers.  Some of the boxers did OK, but not against the better of the grapplers.  The trick was that nobody was prepared to take it down on the ground as much as they did.

You take a few shots, wrestle the guy to the ground and then peck him to death once you have him immobilized.

One poor guy got his face scraped off by an elbow getting swiped across it 10+ times.

I think part of the problem that TKD has is that the responses are predictable and everybody can train to fight the standard TKD responses.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Whole lotta moves, and no true contact. Two skilled men, who can see the opponents moves coming. What would be more interesting would be Kung Fu guy meets heavyweight boxer, in the ring. Skilled defense verses irregular attack & overwhelming power. Id like to see either one of them against any of the main players in the UFC, I can see a orthodox martial artist getting their ass kicked really fast. Go back to the original UFC matches and you see a lot of the Tae Kwon Do guys getting their heads stomped into the mat by the grapplers.  Some of the boxers did OK, but not against the better of the grapplers.  The trick was that nobody was prepared to take it down on the ground as much as they did. You take a few shots, wrestle the guy to the ground and then peck him to death once you have him immobilized. One poor guy got his face scraped off by an elbow getting swiped across it 10+ times. I think part of the problem that TKD has is that the responses are predictable and everybody can train to fight the standard TKD responses.

I dont recall any actual TKD guy shaving fought in the UFC.  Many billed themselves as TKD, but I dont think any truely were. The early UFCs were filled with guys BSing resumes just to get accpeted to the event.  Hell, even I had an application to it.

Anyways, I doubt the Kung-Fu guy would do any better than the TKD player.

Speaking of the TKD player, you can tell he trains primarily for Olympic style tournamanets.  Everything from his stance to his foot work and offense/defense patterns show this.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Whole lotta moves, and no true contact. Two skilled men, who can see the opponents moves coming. What would be more interesting would be Kung Fu guy meets heavyweight boxer, in the ring. Skilled defense verses irregular attack & overwhelming power. Id like to see either one of them against any of the main players in the UFC, I can see a orthodox martial artist getting their ass kicked really fast. Go back to the original UFC matches and you see a lot of the Tae Kwon Do guys getting their heads stomped into the mat by the grapplers.  Some of the boxers did OK, but not against the better of the grapplers.  The trick was that nobody was prepared to take it down on the ground as much as they did. You take a few shots, wrestle the guy to the ground and then peck him to death once you have him immobilized. One poor guy got his face scraped off by an elbow getting swiped across it 10+ times. I think part of the problem that TKD has is that the responses are predictable and everybody can train to fight the standard TKD responses.

Very true about the grapplers. They only have to endure whatever shots they take in closing on their opponent, which is usually not devastating (if effective at all). Once they get ahold of you, you had better be on their level as far as groundfighting or you're going to get choked, pecked to death, or just wear out.

It's very clear it's the most effective 1 on 1 fighting style because it's offense/defense wrapped into one. You can't strike blows against it, you can't retreat, you can't counter unless  you use it yourself.

Where it falls apart (obviously) is that it's useless against mulitple attackers.

Quoted: There are reasons you do not mess with *real* monks. Their conditioning is not earthly, they can fight from all 4 distances (kicking, Punching/closing, trapping and grappling) They are masters of multiple weapons (short, long, bladed, hinged) Not to mention a high degree of knowledge of the human anatomy, Chin Na, Chi-kung and Iron Palm to name a few more.

You would think Shaolin monks would use their un-earthly conditioning and supernatural fighting ability to do positive things for the lesser beings of the world.  Just think of the attention & respect that the world would give them if they would kick the Communist completely out of China and save all MMA fans from watching the never ending caravan of over-hyped fighters paraded before us by UFC and PrideFC as real fighters.

Truth be told, both of those guys would be toast.  That was exhibition crap, just like the majority of Martial Arts are.

LB