User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 4:46:01 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Once you know how to ride, the fronts are all you'll ever use... I disagree, I can tell a significant difference in stopping power when using the front and rear together in a 70/30 or 80/20 ratio. Though locking up the back brake that can be bad... Real bad... |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 4:50:40 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Okay, the front brake does almost all the braking, like 70% For example in heavy urban traffic I rode with three fingers on the front brake. The main basic skills new riders lack is 1 not being able to get hard on the front brake to stop fast and 2 countersteering, to turn a motorcycle you actually push the handlebar, if I am entering a right hand turn I push the right handlebar forwards Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Reading the thread about the woman killed when she ht the front brakes on her bike, now I am wondering why is there front brakes on a motorcycle? Wouldn't rear brakes be enough to stop a bike? I have no idea 2 countersteering, to turn a motorcycle you actually push the handlebar, if I am entering a right hand turn I push the right handlebar forwards Surprised you would indulge in such risky behavior when government statistics show that a safer, albeit less enjoyable, alternative exists. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 4:53:27 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have no idea Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Reading the thread about the woman killed when she ht the front brakes on her bike, now I am wondering why is there front brakes on a motorcycle? Wouldn't rear brakes be enough to stop a bike? I have no idea Front brakes are about 80% of your stopping power in cars and bikes. TXL |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 4:53:46 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ahhhh physics... ain't it the shit  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: With any vehicle when you apply the brakes the weight transfers to the front. The front brake then becomes more effective and the rear brake less effective. If you look at brake systems, the fronts are always bigger because they do most of the braking. So the key is not to jam the front brakes hard, locking up the bike and throwing your ass over the bars? ahhhh physics... ain't it the shit Motorcycles will teach you one lesson above anything else. DO NOT BE A HAM HANDED IDIOT. A nice, pleasant, forgiving bike will spit you right off if you start grabbing handfuls of anything. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 4:56:44 AM EDT
[#5]
Yet another "stopping power" discussion on a gun forum... ;)
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:03:31 AM EDT
[#6]
Also a front brake comes in pretty handy when you have a jockey/suicide set up while waiting on a red light on a hill.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:03:42 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Once you know how to ride, the fronts are all you'll ever use... +1 Rear brakes were pretty ineffective on my old Yamaha. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:26:56 AM EDT
[#8]
Here is an article on the subject that may help you understand stopping a motorcycle.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:28:46 AM EDT
[#9]
See what happen when you jam on the rear brake.
 if your not aware it locks up and slides out. front brakes are 70% of your braking power. next question.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:47:13 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Once you know how to ride, the fronts are all you'll ever use... truth. after the first few months of riding, the front brakes were all i used. only hit the rear's too when i really had to slow down. Terrible, dangerous advice. Although the front brakes do most of the stopping/slowing, the rear brakes are important in stabilizing and leveling the stop. Both brakes should always be used. Thank you! Balancing the amount of front and rear brake for a given situation is a difficult skill to learn, but you will get much better braking performance by using both. C'mon people do the math. Front brakes=75% stopping power Rear brakes =25% stopping power Front+Rear= > front alone  |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:55:43 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Although the front brakes do most of the stopping/slowing, the rear brakes are important in stabilizing and leveling the stop. Both brakes should always be used. Thank you! Balancing the amount of front and rear brake for a given situation is a difficult skill to learn, but you will get much better braking performance by using both. C'mon people do the math. Front brakes=75% stopping power Rear brakes =25% stopping power Front+Rear= > front alone
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Once you know how to ride, the fronts are all you'll ever use... truth. after the first few months of riding, the front brakes were all i used. only hit the rear's too when i really had to slow down. Terrible, dangerous advice. Although the front brakes do most of the stopping/slowing, the rear brakes are important in stabilizing and leveling the stop. Both brakes should always be used. Thank you! Balancing the amount of front and rear brake for a given situation is a difficult skill to learn, but you will get much better braking performance by using both. C'mon people do the math. Front brakes=75% stopping power Rear brakes =25% stopping power Front+Rear= > front alone
Sure, except your number are wrong. Front brake provides 90%+. The rear brake can be very useful in limited circumstances, by also can be very dangerous if you are not well practiced. As weight is transferring to the front wheel, it is coming off the back. Which means you are losing traction on the back and actually need to be rolling off the brake to avoid locking up the back. This is a very had skill to master, and dangerous to mess up for little gain. At the track I'm downshift at the same time and using my clutch to feather the engine braking, throwing in the rear brake is mind staggering.... Yet the MotoGP guys can do it. And yes, I out brake a good many people into the corners. The only time my rear really gets used is if I felt like checking out the weeds! ( ran off track) For whatever it is worth, Sport Rider did a test a few years back and using the rear + front on a Bandit only shaved 5ft |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:08:56 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Although the front brakes do most of the stopping/slowing, the rear brakes are important in stabilizing and leveling the stop. Both brakes should always be used. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Once you know how to ride, the fronts are all you'll ever use... truth. after the first few months of riding, the front brakes were all i used. only hit the rear's too when i really had to slow down. Terrible, dangerous advice. Although the front brakes do most of the stopping/slowing, the rear brakes are important in stabilizing and leveling the stop. Both brakes should always be used. Thank you! Balancing the amount of front and rear brake for a given situation is a difficult skill to learn, but you will get much better braking performance by using both. C'mon people do the math. Front brakes=75% stopping power Rear brakes =25% stopping power Front+Rear= > front alone If the back wheel is touching the ground and you use both the front and rear brakes, you will stop faster than with the front brakes alone. Even if the weight has shifted to the front, but the back wheel is touching the ground and you use both the front and rear brakes, you will stop faster than with the front brakes alone. If the rear wheel is not touching the ground and you use both the front and rear brakes, you will not stop as fast and you will be wasting your time with the rear brake lever. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:11:16 AM EDT
[#13]
You've clearly never ridden a motorcycle
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:12:31 AM EDT
[#14]
I take it you have never ridden a motorcycle.
Why don't cars have just rear brakes?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:16:42 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Fromt brakes stops the vehicle. The rear brake slows & controls the vehicle to a stop. bingo...properly applied the rear brake is a tool that is highly effective especially for extremely slow maneuvers.....you can keep a motorcycle balanced upright at a virtual standstill when rear brake used correctly.....there are many uses for front and rear and the situation really dictates |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:17:44 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Once you know how to ride, the fronts are all you'll ever use... A little rear brake helps. Front brakes are where its at, only use 2 fingers....light pressure is all it takes. Grab a handful and your going to hate life. When you get hard on the brakes in a turn to bike will want to stand up. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:19:53 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
bingo...properly applied the rear brake is a tool that is highly effective especially for extremely slow maneuvers.....you can keep a motorcycle balanced upright at a virtual standstill when rear brake isused correctly.....there are many uses for front and rear and the situation really dictates Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The Fromt brakes stops the vehicle. The rear brake slows & controls the vehicle to a stop. bingo...properly applied the rear brake is a tool that is highly effective especially for extremely slow maneuvers.....you can keep a motorcycle balanced upright at a virtual standstill when rear brake isused correctly.....there are many uses for front and rear and the situation really dictates Yep. When doing a very slow and tight u-turn, like a right-handed u-turn within a single lane, dragging the rear brake helps meter the throttle. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:20:16 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So the key is not to jam the front brakes hard, locking up the bike and throwing your ass over the bars? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
With any vehicle when you apply the brakes the weight transfers to the front. The front brake then becomes more effective and the rear brake less effective. If you look at brake systems, the fronts are always bigger because they do most of the braking. So the key is not to jam the front brakes hard, locking up the bike and throwing your ass over the bars? Due to weight transfer it is important to have the front brake. When you hit teh rear brake the weight transfers OFF that tire and forward until you start sliding(which you used to do on your BMX when you were a kid), the weight of the bike is enough that front brakes are also needed. SOME bikes have an antilock system on the front brakes like on a car, IIRC others use a nose dive indicator and use it to lessen front braking pressure(I think my vf500 interceptor had this), some like my DL650 simply use a loose nut behind the throtte/clutch to avoid the skidding problem. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:22:29 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only thing more shocking than the original question is the number of retards in here who think you only use the front brakes once you learn to ride. Then I must be a fucking retard. The only time I have used the rear brake on my racebike was as a footpeg to help me climb off it. Unfortunately, I was doing 130+ at the time.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:24:02 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the back wheel is touching the ground and you use both the front and rear brakes, you will stop faster than with the front brakes alone. Even if the weight has shifted to the front, but the back wheel is touching the ground and you use both the front and rear brakes, you will stop faster than with the front brakes alone. If the rear wheel is not touching the ground and you use both the front and rear brakes, you will not stop as fast and you will be wasting your time with the rear brake lever. If the rear tire is barely touching the ground and you barely even touch the rear brake... it is going to lock up and skid and leave you in a much worse situation. If the rear tire is in the air, the front tire now has 100% of the bikes weight on it and thus 100% of available traction and will stop just as fast as the rear touched down and braking. Friction is independent of area. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:42:31 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks, that's what I suspected. In that moment before the rear wheel lifts off the ground, using both brakes will scrub off more speed. It will also make the rear wheel lift off later than it would have if just using the front brake. Even though it's not much, it might be just enough. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Has there been a test that shows a rider can stop quicker by solely using the front brake, as opposed to using both? Yes, there is a motorcycle breaking video that does just this on YouTube....I'll look for it. Sorry....re-reading your post I thought you were comparing front to back breaks. The video I mentioned shows front break, rear break and then both. If you use both you stop faster than if you were to just use the front....but not by much.Here you go- Motorcycle breaking Thanks, that's what I suspected. In that moment before the rear wheel lifts off the ground, using both brakes will scrub off more speed. It will also make the rear wheel lift off later than it would have if just using the front brake. Even though it's not much, it might be just enough. The rear wheel lifting is a function of deceleration, so the faster you stop, the more the rear wheel is gonna lift. Actually, you want and need the weight transfer to the front wheel to assist with front wheel traction. Here's the steps involved, the way I do it anyway. When you get to your brake marker - the point you have chosen as to where/when you are gonna start braking- roll the throttle closed. Lightly squeeze the front brake, to settle the forks and start the weight transfer forward. As the forks compress, continue applying more brake squeeze. Keep applying more brake. At some point, the front tire starts to feel 'mushy' and 'squirmy' - this is approaching lockup. Start modulating the braking effort. If the front continues to feel good, the rear wheel will start to get light, and the compressive forces on your forearms increase dramatically, and you are squeezing the tank between your knees, to help keep the bike going straight. As the speed drops, you gotta ease off on the brake, to avoid locking the front wheel. Eventually, you are either stopped, or at the correct speed for the next maneuver. The point I'm making here is you need the initial forward weight transfer to initiate asap to avoid locking the front wheel. All this is about a maximum performance stop, any other kind it doesn't matter how you do it. Drag a brick on a string for all I care. You will eventually stop. YMMV |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:45:56 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure, except your number are wrong. Front brake provides 90%+. The rear brake can be very useful in limited circumstances, by also can be very dangerous if you are not well practiced. So you can tell me that every motorcycle has the same amount of braking distribution, 90%front/10%back? Not everyone rides MotoGP. As weight is transferring to the front wheel, it is coming off the back. Which means you are losing traction on the back and actually need to be rolling off the brake to avoid locking up the back. This is a very had skill to master, and dangerous to mess up for little gain. No, its actually pretty easy to do and not that dangerous for 95% of riders out there. Were not talking the nuances of track riding. The OP only wanted to know why bikes had front brakes. At the track I'm downshift at the same time and using my clutch to feather the engine braking, throwing in the rear brake is mind staggering.... Yet the MotoGP guys can do it. And yes, I out brake a good many people into the corners. Sounds like you're quite the confident rider, congrats. The only time my rear really gets used is if I felt like checking out the weeds! ( ran off track) You know most people ride their bikes on the street, right? For whatever it is worth, Sport Rider did a test a few years back and using the rear + front on a Bandit only shaved 5ft So, what you're saying is that you agree with me? 5ft is 5ft. 5ft when entering a corner must be worth something. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Once you know how to ride, the fronts are all you'll ever use... truth. after the first few months of riding, the front brakes were all i used. only hit the rear's too when i really had to slow down. Terrible, dangerous advice. Although the front brakes do most of the stopping/slowing, the rear brakes are important in stabilizing and leveling the stop. Both brakes should always be used. Thank you! Balancing the amount of front and rear brake for a given situation is a difficult skill to learn, but you will get much better braking performance by using both. C'mon people do the math. Front brakes=75% stopping power Rear brakes =25% stopping power Front+Rear= > front alone Sure, except your number are wrong. Front brake provides 90%+. The rear brake can be very useful in limited circumstances, by also can be very dangerous if you are not well practiced. So you can tell me that every motorcycle has the same amount of braking distribution, 90%front/10%back? Not everyone rides MotoGP. As weight is transferring to the front wheel, it is coming off the back. Which means you are losing traction on the back and actually need to be rolling off the brake to avoid locking up the back. This is a very had skill to master, and dangerous to mess up for little gain. No, its actually pretty easy to do and not that dangerous for 95% of riders out there. Were not talking the nuances of track riding. The OP only wanted to know why bikes had front brakes. At the track I'm downshift at the same time and using my clutch to feather the engine braking, throwing in the rear brake is mind staggering.... Yet the MotoGP guys can do it. And yes, I out brake a good many people into the corners. Sounds like you're quite the confident rider, congrats. The only time my rear really gets used is if I felt like checking out the weeds! ( ran off track) You know most people ride their bikes on the street, right? For whatever it is worth, Sport Rider did a test a few years back and using the rear + front on a Bandit only shaved 5ft So, what you're saying is that you agree with me? 5ft is 5ft. 5ft when entering a corner must be worth something. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 7:03:49 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, the rear brake will stop a bike. Eventually. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Reading the thread about the woman killed when she ht the front brakes on her bike, now I am wondering why is there front brakes on a motorcycle? Wouldn't rear brakes be enough to stop a bike? Rear brake will high side you. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 7:12:46 AM EDT
[#24]
I rode street for years on various bikes, cruiser, sport, and old crustys, before going track only. Had I been talking about track only I would have said 96%+. The bandit example shows a 4% improvement on braking using the rear.
Threshold braking on the track is actually easier than the street. I know when my turn is coming up and where my braking markers are located. Even in that controlled situation, I don't use my rear brake because the SMALL advantage is not worth the concentration is costs me. On the street where threshold braking is a panic reaction, it is even harder because you aren't planning and thinking ahead on maximum braking. No, I do not agree with you assuming we are talking about maximum braking. If you are cruising up to a stop light or into Starbucks do whatever you want with your brakes though. Funny that you are so adament yet every track rider here ( people who routinely push their brakes to the max) is saying you are wrong. Perhaps you are the one who should be in MotoGP. Personally I'm just a track day junkie working towards a CMRA license |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 7:14:54 AM EDT
[#25]
70% of your stoping is done up front
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 7:18:20 AM EDT
[#26]
Since in 4+ pages, I'm sure no one has explained it to you already...
At least 80-90% of the braking power should come from the front wheel. You can't brake very well with the back wheel without locking it up. Physics. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 7:27:50 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Terrible, dangerous advice. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Once you know how to ride, the fronts are all you'll ever use... truth. after the first few months of riding, the front brakes were all i used. only hit the rear's too when i really had to slow down. Terrible, dangerous advice. Although the front brakes do most of the stopping/slowing, the rear brakes are important in stabilizing and leveling the stop. Both brakes should always be used. It's always good to maintain practice on the rear brake, even if you only use it for little actual work. I don't always use both though, but when I rely on brakes for a stop, I try to use at least 10% just to maintain the habit. Honestly, most of the time engine braking accounts for about 80% of all my normal stops. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 7:45:30 AM EDT
[#28]
I hope nobody actually answers this question
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 7:54:35 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: <snip> Nothing to really do with the thread, but any connection to Manventure? Similar names, same state. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 9:26:38 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the rear tire is barely touching the ground and you barely even touch the rear brake... it is going to lock up and skid and leave you in a much worse situation. If the rear tire is in the air, the front tire now has 100% of the bikes weight on it and thus 100% of available traction and will stop just as fast as the rear touched down and braking. Friction is independent of area. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If the back wheel is touching the ground and you use both the front and rear brakes, you will stop faster than with the front brakes alone. Even if the weight has shifted to the front, but the back wheel is touching the ground and you use both the front and rear brakes, you will stop faster than with the front brakes alone. If the rear wheel is not touching the ground and you use both the front and rear brakes, you will not stop as fast and you will be wasting your time with the rear brake lever. If the rear tire is barely touching the ground and you barely even touch the rear brake... it is going to lock up and skid and leave you in a much worse situation. If the rear tire is in the air, the front tire now has 100% of the bikes weight on it and thus 100% of available traction and will stop just as fast as the rear touched down and braking. Friction is independent of area. Are my first two statements incorrect? Are we now speaking in theoretical terms or practical? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 9:29:44 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nothing to really do with the thread, but any connection to Manventure? Similar names, same state. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: <snip> Nothing to really do with the thread, but any connection to Manventure? Similar names, same state. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 9:36:05 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only thing more shocking than the original question is the number of retards in here who think you only use the front brakes once you learn to ride. Exactly. I too am amazed. This thread should be locked before it kills someone. Yes, the front brake provides more stopping power, but BOTH breaks should always be used. Using only one shifts weight off the other tire, thus decreasing overall traction, thus creating instability. Sure, you can get away with just using one brake, but it's less safe. People should read this book.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 9:40:56 AM EDT
[#33]
Arfcom and physics don't get along.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 9:42:53 AM EDT
[#34]
I grew up around bikers with custom bikes long before every dentist had one. Very few of those bikes had front brakes.
I wonder if an increased length of travel helps prevent high-siding? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 9:54:41 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For some reason I would never have imagined you as a motorcycle rider. Don't know why, just wouldn't..  Quote HistoryQuoted: .. For some reason I would never have imagined you as a motorcycle rider. Don't know why, just wouldn't.. Most of my time on two wheels is on non-engine powered rides. But I do have the M endorsement on my driver's license. Physics. The center of gravity of most wheeled vehicles is above the braking drag force vector, namely the contact patch of the tires on the pavement. This pair of equal yet opposite forces (momentum acts at the center of gravity) that are separated by a distance. This is a torque, AKA moment. This forces the front end down (brake dive) and rear end up. Naturally, the traction of a tire is based on the load so the rear tires have less traction during this brake dive. Meaning less braking force is possible since a skidding tire has far less traction than a rolling tire. This is why front brakes are far more robust than rear. Most 4 wheel disc brake cars have solid rears and vented fronts. Also, most front discs are much larger and have greater swept/pad areas. On my bicycles, the swept/pad areas are the same. As such, the fronts wear out 4 times faster. Yes, I can modulate a stoppie on my road bike, keeping the rear wheel just off the pavement. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 10:03:55 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I grew up around bikers with custom bikes long before every dentist had one. Very few of those bikes had front brakes. I wonder if an increased length of travel helps prevent high-siding? In my experience, the rear brake on a cruiser seems to be much stronger/ more effective than the rear brake on a sportbike. Must be due to more weight on the rear wheel, plus the cruisers tend to have larger rear discs to take advantage of that. Thus I apply a higher percentage of rear brake when riding my cruiser than when riding my sportbike. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 10:09:18 AM EDT
[#37]
I've been riding on the street for nearly 12 years now. I'm 27, and I've had exactly 2 accidents: 1 my fault on a turn, 1 being struck in a parking lot at low speed. I've owned several sport bikes, ridden several of Harley Davidson's larger model bikes (Electra Wide Glide, Etc.) cross country, and currently commute on a BMW GS800ADV.
You are getting some pretty off the wall advice in here, but the physics explanations are sound. The front brake provides roughly 70-80% of your maximum breaking *POTENTIAL*. That being said, I frequently use only the rear brake and the engine to slow my vehicle during normal highway and road use. My current vehicle has a 12.1:1 compression ratio and can be engine braked almost as quickly as it can be slowed with the rear brakes, using both in combination minimizes the amount of front end dive I experience. I reserve my front brake when I need to stop very quickly; instances of vehicles pulling out in front of me, or slowing from 70MPH to make a turn onto a side road. Either way there is no "Professional" way to ride a motorcycle for leisure on the street. There are certain ride styles for track and moto, but that doesn't make them *right*. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 10:19:07 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I rode street for years on various bikes, cruiser, sport, and old crustys, before going track only. Had I been talking about track only I would have said 96%+. The bandit example shows a 4% improvement on braking using the rear. Threshold braking on the track is actually easier than the street. I know when my turn is coming up and where my braking markers are located. Even in that controlled situation, I don't use my rear brake because the SMALL advantage is not worth the concentration is costs me. On the street where threshold braking is a panic reaction, it is even harder because you aren't planning and thinking ahead on maximum braking. No, I do not agree with you assuming we are talking about maximum braking. If you are cruising up to a stop light or into Starbucks do whatever you want with your brakes though. I don't understand. Above you said the Sportrider reported a decrease in braking distance when using the rear brake. A 4% improvement is a gain in braking ability. Also, please define "Maximum breaking" Funny that you are so adament yet every track rider here ( people who routinely push their brakes to the max) is saying you are wrong. Perhaps you are the one who should be in MotoGP. Personally I'm just a track day junkie working towards a CMRA license Again, I don't understand. Every track rider here is disagreeing with me, (including yourself) but you made the contradictory statement above. Quote HistoryQuoted: I rode street for years on various bikes, cruiser, sport, and old crustys, before going track only. Had I been talking about track only I would have said 96%+. The bandit example shows a 4% improvement on braking using the rear. Threshold braking on the track is actually easier than the street. I know when my turn is coming up and where my braking markers are located. Even in that controlled situation, I don't use my rear brake because the SMALL advantage is not worth the concentration is costs me. On the street where threshold braking is a panic reaction, it is even harder because you aren't planning and thinking ahead on maximum braking. No, I do not agree with you assuming we are talking about maximum braking. If you are cruising up to a stop light or into Starbucks do whatever you want with your brakes though. I don't understand. Above you said the Sportrider reported a decrease in braking distance when using the rear brake. A 4% improvement is a gain in braking ability. Also, please define "Maximum breaking" Funny that you are so adament yet every track rider here ( people who routinely push their brakes to the max) is saying you are wrong. Perhaps you are the one who should be in MotoGP. Personally I'm just a track day junkie working towards a CMRA license ...Yet the MotoGP guys can do it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:23:56 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I rode street for years on various bikes, cruiser, sport, and old crustys, before going track only. Had I been talking about track only I would have said 96%+. The bandit example shows a 4% improvement on braking using the rear. Threshold braking on the track is actually easier than the street. I know when my turn is coming up and where my braking markers are located. Even in that controlled situation, I don't use my rear brake because the SMALL advantage is not worth the concentration is costs me. On the street where threshold braking is a panic reaction, it is even harder because you aren't planning and thinking ahead on maximum braking. No, I do not agree with you assuming we are talking about maximum braking. If you are cruising up to a stop light or into Starbucks do whatever you want with your brakes though. I don't understand. Above you said the Sportrider reported a decrease in braking distance when using the rear brake. A 4% improvement is a gain in braking ability. Also, please define "Maximum breaking" Funny that you are so adament yet every track rider here ( people who routinely push their brakes to the max) is saying you are wrong. Perhaps you are the one who should be in MotoGP. Personally I'm just a track day junkie working towards a CMRA license ...Yet the MotoGP guys can do it. and sometimes they have $$$$$$ electronics helping them out. All world-class athletes do stuff us mere mortals can only dream of. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:39:56 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yet another "stopping power" discussion on a gun forum... ;)
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:49:28 PM EDT
[#41]
Cruisers have shallower head angles and more trail, making them less twitchy or prone to headshake. This also puts more weight on the back wheel which is why we have this thread going on for 4+ pages...
Getting back to that braking moment...this torque must be in balance with the force couple from the weight and braking deceleration. And naturally a longer wheelbase ride will have greater moment arms from the CG to each wheel. So sport bikes with their short wheelbase are more prone to weight transfer during braking. For the ultimate, see a unicycle. Then try a 70 passenger bus. I've just skimmed this thread, funny how no one mentions what to do when you eventually lock up the rear, have they? If you find yourself in this condition, ride out the locked up wheel is the best solution because releasing the rear brake can cause a high side slide. Meaning the rear end slides out from the locked up condition, then when you release the brake, the rear wheel now grabs with the bike sliding sideways. Which because you are not fastened to the bike, your body goes airborne in front of the bike. Riding it down by keeping the rear locked up means a low side slide in which the bike slides in front of you. And not being pitched in the air is a better thing. Keep it rubber side down folks. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:55:43 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've just skimmed this thread, funny how no one mentions what to do when you eventually lock up the rear, have they? If you find yourself in this condition, ride out the locked up wheel is the best solution because releasing the rear brake can cause a high side slide. Meaning the rear end slides out from the locked up condition, then when you release the brake, the rear wheel now grabs with the bike sliding sideways. Which because you are not fastened to the bike, your body goes airborne in front of the bike. Riding it down by keeping the rear locked up means a low side slide in which the bike slides in front of you. And not being pitched in the air is a better thing. Indeed. I have locked up my rear before, and kept it locked rather than risk a highside. And actually, since I locked it that time, I have yet to ever lock it again - it taught me well where the limits were. That was also several years back, and I now have a lot more riding experience in general, which doesn't hurt things either. As I said before, I continue to and will always continue to use both brakes when making a complete stop, though of course the usage of the front brake dominates. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:01:29 PM EDT
[#43]
Good troll.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:11:57 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Reading the thread about the woman killed when she ht the front brakes on her bike, now I am wondering why is there front brakes on a motorcycle? Wouldn't rear brakes be enough to stop a bike?  |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:14:28 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Once you know how to ride, the fronts are all you'll ever use... |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:22:36 PM EDT
[#46]
This thread is TL;DR but I'll say this, I have boiled the front brakes in my race bike before and damn sure wanted them back. Pucker factor was high and made worse by being tired at the end of 80 miles.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:30:41 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Reading the thread about the woman killed when she ht the front brakes on her bike, now I am wondering why is there front brakes on a motorcycle? Wouldn't rear brakes be enough to stop a bike? The laws of physics... How do they work again?? Front wheels do approx 85% of braking. Has a bit to do with inertia and weight displacement. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:35:05 PM EDT
[#48]
No thoughts on my ABS post a few pages back?
Can’t say where it is since mobile pages are different that full site pages. I think motorcycle ABS is the greatest increase in motorcycle safety in years. Having said that I’ll admit that my dealer ordered 5 CB1100s of which only one was a ABS model. The four non ABS bikes sold first. I wanted a ABS model and paid the extra grand to get it. I’ve been riding for 40 years. Mike Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:39:25 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The laws of physics... How do they work again?? Front wheels do approx 85% of braking. Has a bit to do with inertia and weight displacement. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Reading the thread about the woman killed when she ht the front brakes on her bike, now I am wondering why is there front brakes on a motorcycle? Wouldn't rear brakes be enough to stop a bike? The laws of physics... How do they work again?? Front wheels do approx 85% of braking. Has a bit to do with inertia and weight displacement. I saw some kids on my junior mountain biking team learn about physics when we got some new bikes with V-brakes. Apparently, when a kid feels he is going over the bars, instinct is to grip them, and also the brake lever, harder. Hilarity did ensue. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:48:04 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No thoughts on my ABS post a few pages back? Can’t say where it is since mobile pages are different that full site pages. I think motorcycle ABS is the greatest increase in motorcycle safety in years. Having said that I’ll admit that my dealer ordered 5 CB1100s of which only one was a ABS model. The four non ABS bikes sold first. I wanted a ABS model and paid the extra grand to get it. I’ve been riding for 40 years. Mike Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile 1972 here  on any sunday w/ points & condenser.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
