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Posted: 9/5/2010 6:56:19 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: Quoted: maybe they ran out of clones and the ones left by the time of ep. IV were regular dudes from wherever That's my understanding. I believe that the clones had a shorter lifespan. By the time 'A New Hope' rolled around, most/all of the stormtroopers were regular dudes. Although in one Star Wars novel I read (the 2nd Thrawn Trilogy, whatever the name was), the storm troopers are hyped up to be uber badasses/SpecOps. Continuity is a motherfucker.  Dark Force Rising |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 7:02:42 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: So you're saying it was copy degradation? "Yeah, Herb over there is a Gen 5 clone. We don't let him have loaded weapons. Watch your head there, Herb!" Kinda like a gen 4 glock then! |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 7:14:49 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
maybe they ran out of clones and the ones left by the time of ep. IV were regular dudes from wherever Or maybe they were clones of a clone. Kinda like that movie Muliplicity with Micheal Keaton. ETA: Late to the party. This was already covered. 
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Posted: 9/5/2010 7:14:59 PM EDT
[#4]
In between, the third episode and New Hope, the Empire established a galactic computer network, and ever since it went live the troopers spent less time training and more time arguing which blaster was more effective 45 watt versus 9 watt.
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Posted: 9/5/2010 7:18:49 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Original group (meaning the prequels) are clones of Jango Fett, and highly trained. Later they are just recruits with training and the armor. Yup, this is seen in the movies by looking at the height of each stormtrooper. They were not clones later on during the time of Luke and Han. 
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Posted: 9/5/2010 7:19:21 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: In between, the third episode and New Hope, the Empire established a galactic computer network, and ever since it went live the troopers spent less time training and more time arguing which blaster was more effective 45 watt versus 9 watt. Bitter much? |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 7:19:37 PM EDT
[#7]
All stormtroopers are clones. They all have he same voices, height, build, etc...
They may not be clones of Jango, but they are clones. Ignore the expanded universe garbage. That crap was written before the newer movies came out and a source of the stormtroopers was explained. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 7:23:15 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Consideration of Others Prevention of SExual Harrassment Suicide Prevention SAEDA Resiliancy Risk Assessment class. Imperical Values 101 They really ran out of time to train with all the mandatory classes. The rebels didn't have this problem. 
I was gonna say the reason was because the script said so, but Sylvan's answer makes much more sense. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 7:27:07 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Quoted:
In between, the third episode and New Hope, the Empire established a galactic computer network, and ever since it went live the troopers spent less time training and more time arguing which blaster was more effective 45 watt versus 9 watt. Bitter much? How did you get bitter out of that? I was trying to be funny. 
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Posted: 9/5/2010 7:30:33 PM EDT
[#10]
needs a smiley then.
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Posted: 9/5/2010 7:30:42 PM EDT
[#11]
Star Wars, gangsta rap version: LINK
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Posted: 9/5/2010 7:40:07 PM EDT
[#12]
Not to hijack.. but I have always wanted to know why couldn't Vader sense that Princess Leia was his daughter?
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Posted: 9/5/2010 7:41:29 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
All stormtroopers are clones. They all have he same voices, height, build, etc... They may not be clones of Jango, but they are clones. Ignore the expanded universe garbage. That crap was written before the newer movies came out and a source of the stormtroopers was explained. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Pretty much no one anywhere accepts this. Lucas says it, but he also says lightsabers are "laser swords." ETA: Also, EU after the prequels accepts that most of the Stormtrooper corps were recruits 20 years after the establishment of the Empire. What's cheaper: cloning on a galaxy-wide scale, or impressing troops from the already-existing trillions upon trillions of (mostly) humans throughout the Empire? |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 7:47:28 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Consideration of Others Prevention of SExual Harrassment Suicide Prevention SAEDA Resiliancy Risk Assessment class. Imperical Values 101 They really ran out of time to train with all the mandatory classes. The rebels didn't have this problem. Don't forget about their weekly safety briefings and vehicle inspections 
what about MEO briefings, SABC, and ORM
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Posted: 9/5/2010 7:48:56 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Why do the storm troopers in the original Star Wars appear to be very incompetent and are basically bumbling idiots. When in the newer movies (although prequels), they are well disciplined, well trained and very competent fighters? Because after years of low wages, long hours and unfair work conditions they formed a union. |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 7:57:07 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Pay attention. Lucas backtracked again and made them recruits.All stormtroopers are clones. They all have he same voices, height, build, etc... They may not be clones of Jango, but they are clones. Ignore the expanded universe garbage. That crap was written before the newer movies came out and a source of the stormtroopers was explained. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 7:57:13 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Perhaps when they began upgrading their forces and such, they removed Jango Fett's DNA from the process and replaced it with someone elses? sort of, think the movie Multiplicity. A copy of a copy doesn't always turn out too good.
nvm already mentioned, i should read all posts before i type 
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Posted: 9/5/2010 7:58:36 PM EDT
[#18]
storm trooper: I feel like we are all pretty good shots until we put these helmets on....
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Posted: 9/5/2010 7:59:28 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Because the original clone troopers in the prequels were well disciplined and trained, they were born and bred to be soldiers their entire lives. The storm troopers in the original films were recruits from the empire. Besides the ones that Luke and those guys fought were pogues on Death Star duty or fuck ups sent off to Endor or Tatooine. This... THE EMPIRE LOST??? |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 7:59:52 PM EDT
[#20]
gentlemen, consider that a great deal of the reble forces are themselves comprised of former imperial army and navy to include stormtroopers.
a move was made in the 20 year or so gap between RotS and a new hope away from clones and toward recruits and conscripts. Some of the rebellions best warriors are former imperial, the rebels most celebrated fighter squadron was populated with xwing jockeys who had first been TIE pilots, and page's commandos made extensive use of former imperial scout troopers. a great many of the rebellions best capital ship commanders had first been in charge of imperial strike cruiser, star destroyers, dreadnaughts etc before coming over. Its ironic, but the rebels had the best of the combat hardened veterans who'd been blooded in service to the empire before coming to their senses and switching sides, giving us a paradigm where the rebels had the experience and the empire had the numbers in most conflicts. at one point, colonel soontir fel, the best pilot in the galaxy since darth vader, was captured in high abort above breental 4 when his TIE interceptor was disabled by an ion shot from a crippled y-wing during a dog fight with wedge antilles.....(so much for situaltional awareness I suppose) whereupon he became a member of rogue squadron. generally speaking, green conscripts suffer when opposed to experienced warriors yes? |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 8:03:04 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
All stormtroopers are clones. They all have he same voices, height, build, etc... They may not be clones of Jango, but they are clones. Ignore the expanded universe garbage. That crap was written before the newer movies came out and a source of the stormtroopers was explained. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Pretty much no one anywhere accepts this. Lucas says it, but he also says lightsabers are "laser swords." ETA: Also, EU after the prequels accepts that most of the Stormtrooper corps were recruits 20 years after the establishment of the Empire. What's cheaper: cloning on a galaxy-wide scale, or impressing troops from the already-existing trillions upon trillions of (mostly) humans throughout the Empire? 
George Lucas may be a crackpot, but it's his universe. To paraphrase, "he's Geoge Lucas, and that's the way it is." ETA: Quoted:
Pay attention. Lucas backtracked again and made them recruits. Did he? When and where? |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 8:09:13 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: It didn't really. It pulled back to regional warlords which were later consolidated into a ruling council and later consolidated into an Emperor, under Baron Fel's Son. Quoted: Because the original clone troopers in the prequels were well disciplined and trained, they were born and bred to be soldiers their entire lives. The storm troopers in the original films were recruits from the empire. Besides the ones that Luke and those guys fought were pogues on Death Star duty or fuck ups sent off to Endor or Tatooine. This... THE EMPIRE LOST??? |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 8:10:21 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: All stormtroopers are clones. They all have he same voices, height, build, etc... They may not be clones of Jango, but they are clones. Ignore the expanded universe garbage. That crap was written before the newer movies came out and a source of the stormtroopers was explained. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Pretty much no one anywhere accepts this. Lucas says it, but he also says lightsabers are "laser swords." ETA: Also, EU after the prequels accepts that most of the Stormtrooper corps were recruits 20 years after the establishment of the Empire. What's cheaper: cloning on a galaxy-wide scale, or impressing troops from the already-existing trillions upon trillions of (mostly) humans throughout the Empire? George Lucas may be a crackpot, but it's his universe. To paraphrase, "he's Geoge Lucas, and that's the way it is." ETA: Quoted: Pay attention. Lucas backtracked again and made them recruits. Did he? When and where? When he stated so at a 501st function several years ago. |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 8:16:25 PM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 9/5/2010 8:28:16 PM EDT
[#25]
As far as I can remember the storm troopers were very capable, and only really "messed up" when they were ordered to, with the one exception of Endor. On Endor it seems that Lucas went full retard with just about everything in order to bring about the downfall of the shield generators.[://
New Hope begins with a well executed troop assault on a defended ship. The Storm Troopers mopped them up with relatively few casualties. The Storm Troopers were effectively (and ruthlessly) searching for the missing droids on Tatooine and only luck and the use of Force mind control allowed Obi Wan and Luke to escape with the droids. The Storm Troopers on the Death Star only seemed inept because they were under orders to corral the rebels and the droids back to the Millennium Falcon which had a homing beacon attached to it. On Hoth the Storm Troopers effectively mopped up the rebel resistance. All the rebels could do was stage a stalling fight while trying to evacuate as fast as possible. Cloud city was effectively seized by Imperial troops. Once again the only option left to anyone resisting was to flee/evacuate. And as for the battle in space above Endor, that plan was working quite well until Lucas went full retard and allowed the Ewoks to defeat Imperial troops. So I'd personally say that Imperial Storm Troopers had a pretty good track record for competence. |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 8:36:20 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In between, the third episode and New Hope, the Empire established a galactic computer network, and ever since it went live the troopers spent less time training and more time arguing which blaster was more effective 45 watt versus 9 watt. Bitter much? How did you get bitter out of that? I was trying to be funny. Besides, everyone knows that a blaster in the 40 watt range is the most effective. |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 8:49:00 PM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 9/5/2010 8:51:03 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Consideration of Others Prevention of SExual Harrassment Suicide Prevention SAEDA Resiliancy Risk Assessment class. Imperical Values 101 They really ran out of time to train with all the mandatory classes. The rebels didn't have this problem. Don't forget about their weekly safety briefings and vehicle inspections
what about MEO briefings, SABC, and ORM And don't forget that "steel your battlemind" douchebag video. If you have to say it, then there's a big problem. |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 8:56:08 PM EDT
[#29]
Anybody go the Stormtrooper demotivational ..."Bitch said they were on Dantooine, Bitch lied"
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Posted: 9/5/2010 8:58:04 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: In between, the third episode and New Hope, the Empire established a galactic computer network, and ever since it went live the troopers spent less time training and more time arguing which blaster was more effective 45 watt versus 9 watt.  That reminds me of a conversation between 2 troopers in Jedi Knight 2:Outcast . IIRC it was one trooper telling another how screwed he would have been on his last assignment had he been issued the E-11 rifle instead of the E-11 carbine. Of course they both ended up screwed on their current assignment because I jump down form the air duct and kill both of them with my light saber.  To answer the original question. It's because during the Clone Wars the troopers were trained to fight a real army. After the fall of The Republic and the Rise of the Empire the focus moved to suppressing insurgencies rather than large scale well equipped and train soldiers. As a result the Stormtroops along with a lot of the Imperial Command were in more of a "Peacekeeping" mindset and were not able to handle any real military challange. An exception would be Grand Admiral Thrawn. |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 9:50:50 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
In between, the third episode and New Hope, the Empire established a galactic computer network, and ever since it went live the troopers spent less time training and more time arguing which blaster was more effective 45 watt versus 9 watt.
That reminds me of a conversation between 2 troopers in Jedi Knight 2:Outcast . IIRC it was one trooper telling another how screwed he would have been on his last assignment had he been issued the E-11 rifle instead of the E-11 carbine. Of course they both ended up screwed on their current assignment because I jump down form the air duct and kill both of them with my light saber.
To answer the original question. It's because during the Clone Wars the troopers were trained to fight a real army. After the fall of The Republic and the Rise of the Empire the focus moved to suppressing insurgencies rather than large scale well equipped and train soldiers. As a result the Stormtroops along with a lot of the Imperial Command were in more of a "Peacekeeping" mindset and were not able to handle any real military challange. An exception would be Grand Admiral Thrawn. This is actually a really good point. In the real world, you can look to what the Arab/Islamic armies were during the Islamic Conquest and the Crusades and compare them to most of the Islamic states' armies today. Back then, they could kick butt and were designed to fight against other armies. Today, most Middle Eastern militaries are designed to maintain law and order within their own countries, so they are not seen, generally, as real threats to any sort of foreign invader. |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 9:54:12 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Consideration of Others Prevention of SExual Harrassment Suicide Prevention SAEDA Resiliancy Risk Assessment class. Imperical Values 101 They really ran out of time to train with all the mandatory classes. The rebels didn't have this problem. I'm kinda surprised that they didn't have to wear PT belts |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 11:14:45 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: The Hoth base was over-run and secured in less than an hour. That's pretty impressive.Quoted: Empire? They did a good assault on the Hoth base and secured Cloud city effectively...?Quoted: The escape from the Death Star was orchestrated/allowed by Moff Tarkin. A tracking device was placed aboard the Millenium Falcon, which in turn allowed the Empire to track it back to the rebel base. That was kind of a big plot twist and not at all subtle. I hear that Adderall works great for ADHD. Barring that, try meth. They're idiots in ALL 3 of the originals though. |
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Posted: 9/6/2010 7:32:59 AM EDT
[#34]
How about this?
The original Star Wars IV: A New Hope, was basically a low budget film. They didn't exactly know what they were getting themselves into and Lucas didn't have the budget or special effects technology to make the highly polished eye candy that are episodes 1-3. You can see some of the Stormtroopers walking with their heads cocked to the side because the helmets blocked their vision srtaight on and Lucas had to invent several filming methods to get the special effects that he wanted. Lucas explains all this in the special features and said this is why he's gone back to meddle with the originals to make them more like he had envisioned and to fix continuity errors. |
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Posted: 9/6/2010 7:45:53 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: Why do the storm troopers in the original Star Wars appear to be very incompetent and are basically bumbling idiots. When in the newer movies (although prequels), they are well disciplined, well trained and very competent fighters? Episode 4-6: Conscripts / human volunteers Episode 1-3: Cloned soldiers of Jango Fett, superior Mandalorian physiology and training. |
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Posted: 9/6/2010 7:49:48 AM EDT
[#36]
Bred clones designed and raised for one thing
vs. Mainly human recruits in a gigantic bureaucratic system |
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Posted: 9/6/2010 7:53:33 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
maybe they ran out of clones and the ones left by the time of ep. IV were regular dudes from wherever This. |
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Posted: 9/6/2010 7:56:11 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
As far as I can remember the storm troopers were very capable, and only really "messed up" when they were ordered to, with the one exception of Endor. On Endor it seems that Lucas went full retard with just about everything in order to bring about the downfall of the shield generators.[:// New Hope begins with a well executed troop assault on a defended ship. The Storm Troopers mopped them up with relatively few casualties. The Storm Troopers were effectively (and ruthlessly) searching for the missing droids on Tatooine and only luck and the use of Force mind control allowed Obi Wan and Luke to escape with the droids. The Storm Troopers on the Death Star only seemed inept because they were under orders to corral the rebels and the droids back to the Millennium Falcon which had a homing beacon attached to it. On Hoth the Storm Troopers effectively mopped up the rebel resistance. All the rebels could do was stage a stalling fight while trying to evacuate as fast as possible. Cloud city was effectively seized by Imperial troops. Once again the only option left to anyone resisting was to flee/evacuate. And as for the battle in space above Endor, that plan was working quite well until Lucas went full retard and allowed the Ewoks to defeat Imperial troops. So I'd personally say that Imperial Storm Troopers had a pretty good track record for competence. The Ewoks had logs; nothing beats logs so your argument is moot. This thread is now about logs. |
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Posted: 9/6/2010 8:06:45 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Consideration of Others Prevention of SExual Harrassment Suicide Prevention SAEDA Resiliancy Risk Assessment class. Imperical Values 101 They really ran out of time to train with all the mandatory classes. The rebels didn't have this problem. Information Assurance. |
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Posted: 9/6/2010 8:21:30 AM EDT
[#40]
Ny ANH they had to be recruits, otherwise Luke would've never passed as a stormtrooper when rescuing the princess.
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Posted: 9/6/2010 8:28:32 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Ny ANH they had to be recruits, otherwise Luke would've never passed as a stormtrooper when rescuing the princess. They were allowed to escape in ANH. |
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Posted: 9/6/2010 8:47:52 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:
As far as I can remember the storm troopers were very capable, and only really "messed up" when they were ordered to, with the one exception of Endor. On Endor it seems that Lucas went full retard with just about everything in order to bring about the downfall of the shield generators.[:// New Hope begins with a well executed troop assault on a defended ship. The Storm Troopers mopped them up with relatively few casualties. The Storm Troopers were effectively (and ruthlessly) searching for the missing droids on Tatooine and only luck and the use of Force mind control allowed Obi Wan and Luke to escape with the droids. The Storm Troopers on the Death Star only seemed inept because they were under orders to corral the rebels and the droids back to the Millennium Falcon which had a homing beacon attached to it. On Hoth the Storm Troopers effectively mopped up the rebel resistance. All the rebels could do was stage a stalling fight while trying to evacuate as fast as possible. Cloud city was effectively seized by Imperial troops. Once again the only option left to anyone resisting was to flee/evacuate. And as for the battle in space above Endor, that plan was working quite well until Lucas went full retard and allowed the Ewoks to defeat Imperial troops. So I'd personally say that Imperial Storm Troopers had a pretty good track record for competence. The Ewoks had logs; nothing beats logs so your argument is moot. This thread is now about logs. 
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Posted: 9/6/2010 8:51:07 AM EDT
[#43]
I have always been under the impression that the Stormtroopers in the first movie were the offspring of the clones from the last movie.
The Stormtroopers were raised by single mothers from liberty ports from around the Empire.
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Posted: 9/6/2010 9:02:06 AM EDT
[#44]
Stormtroopers by ANH were a mix of clones and recruits....the 501st was the last Stormtrooper unit to bring in recruits that were not clones....the training for the recruits was just as arduous as that the clones went thru....they just brought prior knowledge / skills to the mix.
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Posted: 9/6/2010 9:07:39 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Original group (meaning the prequels) are clones of Jango Fett, and highly trained. Later they are just recruits with training and the armor. Yup, this is seen in the movies by looking at the height of each stormtrooper. They were not clones later on during the time of Luke and Han. I thought after repeated clonings, things just started going a bit wonky. You know, ended up with a few cases of Corky the Stormtrooper. |
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Posted: 9/6/2010 9:13:10 AM EDT
[#46]
How the hell the Ewoks ever managed to defeat an entire Legion worth of Storm Troopers is beyond me.
Frankly there is no way the Rebels should have prevailed in Return of the Jedi. Just no way. |
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Posted: 9/6/2010 9:30:35 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Consideration of Others Prevention of SExual Harrassment Suicide Prevention SAEDA Resiliancy Risk Assessment class. Imperical Values 101 They really ran out of time to train with all the mandatory classes. The rebels didn't have this problem. Information Assurance. Rebel leaders banned use of PowerPoint, Tarkin required CAS-cubed to be changed from "Pass/Fail" to "Pass/Ejected Out The Airlock" |
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Posted: 9/6/2010 9:32:42 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
How the hell the Ewoks ever managed to defeat an entire Legion worth of Storm Troopers is beyond me. Frankly there is no way the Rebels should have prevailed in Return of the Jedi. Just no way. It was a combination of things. The Emperor said "Legion," but there clearly were not enough troopers on screen to amount to a Legion. Screen evidence says there were far more Ewoks than there were Stormtroopers. Also, again, when the Emperor died, his battle meditation went with him, and it sent all Imperial forces into massive disarray. |
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Posted: 9/6/2010 11:23:17 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
How the hell the Ewoks ever managed to defeat an entire Legion worth of Storm Troopers is beyond me. Frankly there is no way the Rebels should have prevailed in Return of the Jedi. Just no way. They didn't...Chewie commandering the AT-ST and blasting everyone turned the battle in favor of the rebels. The Logs were 100% B.S. How would the ewoks cut 'em down and hoist all that stuff up in the trees without the Imps hearing & seeing it happen. In one of the "making Of" documentaries, Lucas compared the ewoks to the vietcong/NVA, so that's the kind of evil ignorance we're dealing with here. |
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Posted: 9/6/2010 11:39:09 AM EDT
[#50]
The clone wars decimated the number of clone troopers.
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