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Posted: 9/7/2010 2:18:09 PM EDT
[#1]
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I think that was 4? its been years since I've seen them.
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The one with Picard and the Borg was the best. (Forgot the name of the movie) First Contact IMHO, First Contact is second only to The Wrath of Khan. First Contact only seemed good because Generations sucked so hard. Insurrection and Nemesis were just two giant face palms. What was the name of the movie that Kirk was on trial for killing one of the Klingon High command officers. |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 2:18:13 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: Quoted: The one with Picard and the Borg was the best. (Forgot the name of the movie) First Contact IMHO, First Contact is second only to The Wrath of Khan. I liked VI better than First Contact. End of the cold war... |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 2:18:36 PM EDT
[#3]
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The one with Picard and the Borg was the best. (Forgot the name of the movie) First Contact IMHO, First Contact is second only to The Wrath of Khan. First Contact only seemed good because Generations sucked so hard. Insurrection and Nemesis were just two giant face palms. Picard mowing down Borg with a Thompson. First Contact kicked ass. |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 2:18:41 PM EDT
[#4]
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The one with Picard and the Borg was the best. (Forgot the name of the movie) First Contact IMHO, First Contact is second only to The Wrath of Khan. First Contact only seemed good because Generations sucked so hard. Insurrection and Nemesis were just two giant face palms. What was the name of the movie that Kirk was on trial for killing one of the Klingon High command officers. Um... that was the Undiscovered Country and it was for killing the Klingon's leader. That one wasn't great, but it was a whole helluva lot better than the one Shatner directed with "God" at the center of the galaxy. |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 2:19:01 PM EDT
[#5]
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The one with Picard and the Borg was the best. (Forgot the name of the movie) First Contact IMHO, First Contact is second only to The Wrath of Khan. First Contact only seemed good because Generations sucked so hard. Insurrection and Nemesis were just two giant face palms. What was the name of the movie that Kirk was on trial for killing one of the Klingon High command officers. The Undiscovered Country |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 2:19:30 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Quoted: I think that was 4? its been years since I've seen them.Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The one with Picard and the Borg was the best. (Forgot the name of the movie) First Contact IMHO, First Contact is second only to The Wrath of Khan. First Contact only seemed good because Generations sucked so hard. Insurrection and Nemesis were just two giant face palms. What was the name of the movie that Kirk was on trial for killing one of the Klingon High command officers. It was 6 and Kirk stood trial for the death of Chancellor Gorkon |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 2:19:38 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The one with Picard and the Borg was the best. (Forgot the name of the movie) First Contact IMHO, First Contact is second only to The Wrath of Khan. First Contact only seemed good because Generations sucked so hard. Insurrection and Nemesis were just two giant face palms. What was the name of the movie that Kirk was on trial for killing one of the Klingon High command officers. The Undiscovered Country Thanks |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 2:23:34 PM EDT
[#8]
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The one with Picard and the Borg was the best. (Forgot the name of the movie) First Contact IMHO, First Contact is second only to The Wrath of Khan. First Contact only seemed good because Generations sucked so hard. Insurrection and Nemesis were just two giant face palms. Picard mowing down Borg with a Thompson. First Contact kicked ass. Yeah, it was pretty cool. But it really wasn't a good direction to steer the franchise, imo. Star Trek is not an action franchise. Or at least, that isn't what it does WELL. In the series, there was action... but we cared about it because the action grew from the plot. Compare that to Sulu in the reboot dancing around on a satellite with a sword. Redlettermedia can explain it alot better. I don't entirely agree with his analysis, but he makes some great points about Picard's character. Broken down into three sentences: Picard is an arthritic old man. He ain't Rambo. Putting him in a wifebeater and having him swing around on hoses in engineering was kind of ridiculous. |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 2:23:34 PM EDT
[#9]
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The one with Picard and the Borg was the best. (Forgot the name of the movie) First Contact IMHO, First Contact is second only to The Wrath of Khan. I think The Voyage Home may be best, but otherwise you're spot on again. |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 4:54:20 PM EDT
[#10]
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The one with Picard and the Borg was the best. (Forgot the name of the movie) First Contact IMHO, First Contact is second only to The Wrath of Khan. I think The Voyage Home may be best, but otherwise you're spot on again. Kahn dissagrees. |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 4:58:01 PM EDT
[#11]
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The one with Picard and the Borg was the best. (Forgot the name of the movie) First Contact IMHO, First Contact is second only to The Wrath of Khan. First Contact only seemed good because Generations sucked so hard. Insurrection and Nemesis were just two giant face palms. Picard mowing down Borg with a Thompson. First Contact kicked ass. Yeah, it was pretty cool. But it really wasn't a good direction to steer the franchise, imo. Star Trek is not an action franchise. Or at least, that isn't what it does WELL. In the series, there was action... but we cared about it because the action grew from the plot. Compare that to Sulu in the reboot dancing around on a satellite with a sword. Redlettermedia can explain it alot better. I don't entirely agree with his analysis, but he makes some great points about Picard's character. Broken down into three sentences: Picard is an arthritic old man. He ain't Rambo. Putting him in a wifebeater and having him swing around on hoses in engineering was kind of ridiculous. Sulu went all gay fencing people in a TOS episode, hence the sword. The saying of "the gay blade" ring a bell? The remake is growing on me. I've seen it a few times, and I understood they had to reboot. TOS was classic 60's. TNG was classic 80's and early 90's. In a way TNG was a reboot - fuck it lets put the series a few hundred years in the future. They could have done it that way, but you just start loosing people and the techbabble would have to be amped up a notch. |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 5:01:18 PM EDT
[#12]
Technobabble was just an excuse for lousy writing.
Contrived technobabble problem to create the tension. Bullshit analogy and technobabble solution to fix it. |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 5:03:25 PM EDT
[#13]
Time to make a post- Voyager movie
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Posted: 9/7/2010 5:03:27 PM EDT
[#14]
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Technobabble was just an excuse for lousy writing. Contrived technobabble problem to create the tension. Bullshit analogy and technobabble solution to fix it. Shove it up your reverse tachyon beam emitter coil, buddy! 
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Posted: 9/7/2010 5:13:07 PM EDT
[#15]
I'm just here for the green skinned babes.
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Posted: 9/7/2010 5:31:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Time to make a post- Voyager movie "Post" as in "after they got home"? Hmmmm..... 9 years since the last episode. Can't really pick it up from there as everyone has aged too much. Also where would you go with a plot? Back to the Delta Quadrant? If not they're just another Starship and crew in the Alpha Quadrant. DS9 would be interesting since years gone by would fit perfectly with Ben's time with the Prophets. Everyone returning older, wiser and with lots of backstories to fill in could make for a great film series. |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 5:34:02 PM EDT
[#17]
Too bad the green chick got killed.
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Posted: 9/7/2010 5:39:58 PM EDT
[#18]
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Time to make a post- Voyager movie "Post" as in "after they got home"? Hmmmm..... 9 years since the last episode. Can't really pick it up from there as everyone has aged too much. Also where would you go with a plot? Back to the Delta Quadrant? If not they're just another Starship and crew in the Alpha Quadrant. DS9 would be interesting since years gone by would fit perfectly with Ben's time with the Prophets. Everyone returning older, wiser and with lots of backstories to fill in could make for a great film series. To make successful movies you cannot rely on a lot of backstory. No one knows the backstory of Voyager and DS9 enough to pick up those story lines. The films need to be stand alone stories. All the good ideas are played out in the TNG world. All the world knows about Star Trek is the Enterprise, Spock, Kirk and McCoy along with evil Romulans and Klingons. |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 5:48:08 PM EDT
[#19]
They should make a movie where the Borg stop fucking around and send 100 cubes to assimilate the Federation.
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Posted: 9/7/2010 7:17:02 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Time to make a post- Voyager movie "Post" as in "after they got home"? Hmmmm..... 9 years since the last episode. Can't really pick it up from there as everyone has aged too much. Also where would you go with a plot? Back to the Delta Quadrant? If not they're just another Starship and crew in the Alpha Quadrant. DS9 would be interesting since years gone by would fit perfectly with Ben's time with the Prophets. Everyone returning older, wiser and with lots of backstories to fill in could make for a great film series. To make successful movies you cannot rely on a lot of backstory. No one knows the backstory of Voyager and DS9 enough to pick up those story lines. The films need to be stand alone stories. All the good ideas are played out in the TNG world. All the world knows about Star Trek is the Enterprise, Spock, Kirk and McCoy along with evil Romulans and Klingons. True.  I've been watching ST since the first run of TOS on NBC, so I tend to see things (and think) differently than your non-Trekker.  All the iterations of Star Trek are big families with rich histories to me. Same goes for most long running series like SG-1, SG:A, Andromeda, etc... Even the new Star Trek kept to the essence of who the characters were in TOS, that's why it worked for me even with the shift in universes and mauling of established tech. Remove those histories and interrelationships and all you have left is costumes, props and fancy CGI, which I guess is enough to get Joe Sixpack to drop a few bucks on a ticket, but not me. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 1:52:45 AM EDT
[#21]
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All the world knows about Star Trek is the Enterprise, Spock, Kirk and McCoy along with evil Romulans and Klingons. Thats only because of 45 years of reruns. I think that enough people knew enough about the general Starfleet 24th century universe by the end of TNG movies that maybe the thing to do would have been to build a completely new storyline around a new ship and crew set in the established ST universe that was completely played out in movies, with occasional supporting appearances by characters from the various TV shows. Go into stories and effects that a TV budget couldn't support. NOT by completely ripping apart established ST "history" with an alternate universe . I don't intend to ever buy another ticket to see any ST movie based on this alternate universe they created in the last movie. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:14:56 AM EDT
[#22]
If they do a new movie I just hope the writing isn't as sloppy as the last one.
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:46:41 AM EDT
[#23]
Who cares? Story sucked. Characters were irrelevant, pop-culture versions of the originals. CGI was the only thing that saved it from total mediocrity. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:50:09 AM EDT
[#24]
Worst ST movie ever.
Even more than the whale one. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 3:09:58 AM EDT
[#25]
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Worst ST movie ever. Even than the whale one. Well double dumb-ass on you. (about the whale one, I agree that the new one sucked) |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 3:51:41 AM EDT
[#26]
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The last movie reeked. I am a die hard trekie. But I agree. It was awful. It sucked. It gave me a headache. Bad acting, lousy plot, worst photography ever. YMMV |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 1:55:46 PM EDT
[#27]
Some stuff was just really sloppy. Like what ship captain in his right mind would bypass everyone in the chain of command and give control to some midshipman. Likewise, there is no military I can think of that would promote a midshipman to captain and give him a ship. The captain going over to the ship I can tolerate mainly because that has always been done on Star Trek. The rest was rather preposterous and the movie only functions because of these things.
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:01:23 PM EDT
[#28]
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The one with Picard and the Borg was the best. (Forgot the name of the movie) First Contact IMHO, First Contact is second only to The Wrath of Khan. First Contact only seemed good because Generations sucked so hard. Insurrection and Nemesis were just two giant face palms. Agreed on Insurrection and Nemesis, though I did like the Scimitar vs Enterprise-E fight scene and Dina Meyer running around as a Romulan. I read some of the backstory on her character, too, and she was really interesting, but none of it was added to the movie. Sadly, the character was fairly pointless, and if there is ever to be another post-TNG movie I doubt we'll hear from her again unless they decide to really make Star Trek Online fully canon. The Undiscovered Country was the best of all, imo, though. Personally, I didn't care for the movie. It was...entertaining, but there were too many things in it that were unbelievable to me, or made me go "WTF". As far as a Voyager or DS9 movie, I am told by a friend of mine that worked a bit on the Star Trek sets that pretty much we can forget about it. I am told that most of those casts don't want to do a movie. Kate Mulgrew, Robert Picardo and Ethan Phillips from Voyager have guest starred in some of the TNG movies, though. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:07:36 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: I wish JJ would go back and make a movie from the "countdown" comic. It tells the lead in story for the last movie. Captain Data, General Worf, Ambassodors Picard and Spock...it would be a good flick.  data blew up in the last tng movie |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:19:13 PM EDT
[#30]
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I wish JJ would go back and make a movie from the "countdown" comic. It tells the lead in story for the last movie. Captain Data, General Worf, Ambassodors Picard and Spock...it would be a good flick. data blew up in the last tng movie The explanation behind Captain Data is even though Data blew up with the Scimitar, he did dump most of neural net into B-4 earlier in the film. Eventually, Data re-emerges in B-4's body, and goes on to command the Enterprise-E. I agree, too about the rest of the Countdown comic. That would be interesting. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 7:25:26 PM EDT
[#31]
I liked the reboot because it was interesting seeing a younger, less refined Kirk in action. Even in TOS, Kirk had that "you can't tell me what I can't do" attitude, it's more evident in the later films. This first film's sub story was about Kirk competing with Spock, however I would like to see in the next film some interaction between Spock and McCoy. The better known or well-liked episodes of TOS involved McCoy and Spock bumping heads while trying to lead in Kirk's absence. I'd also like to see the new version of Scotty handle command of the ship when the others are on an away mission and the ship is taking fire..
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Posted: 9/8/2010 7:30:20 PM EDT
[#32]
Going where no one Oh for the lova... NO MAN has gone before....
PC bullpucky... I wasn't impressed with the plot, there wasn't really much of one, but I did like the "grittier" feel of the movie. Everyone's not "perfect and shiny" in this one just because it is based in the future. People are still people, character flaws and all. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 8:29:53 PM EDT
[#33]
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Going where no one Oh for the lova... NO MAN has gone before.... PC bullpucky... I wasn't impressed with the plot, there wasn't really much of one, but I did like the "grittier" feel of the movie. Everyone's not "perfect and shiny" in this one just because it is based in the future. People are still people, character flaws and all. It's not "PC bullpucky." If you watch Star Trek VI, it makes sense. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 8:33:46 PM EDT
[#34]
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I hope JJ Abrams makes a sequel to the JJ Abrams directed "Star Trek" because everything JJ Abrams does is gold to me. He hasn't let me down yet. I even loved the lens flares. He never should have apologized for those. 
Not sure if serious. I like JJ Abrams most of the time, but not everything he does is gold. Case in point what he did with Alias. I loved that show back when it was new, but after season 3 JJ jumped the shark bigtime. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 8:40:03 PM EDT
[#35]
For all the diehards, view this as an opportunity to view life in what would normally be a Pike era Enterprise. Obviously we've accelerated Kirk's command, but it is interesting to see our favorites in their youth, before they are seasoned with "I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
As for Kirk taking command, I gathered it was a ship crewed entirely, nearly, with midshipmen in key positions, Kirk was a senior midshipmen on a command/warfare track vice Spocks science track and thus next most qualified to command after it was revealed the ONLY other senior officer, Spock, was compromised for command. In other words, once Spock was out, there were no real officers onboard, and Kirk was the most qualified of the cadets. Plus I think we are supposed to take that midshipmen of Star Fleet are more like classic Royal Navy Midshipmen who served on frontline warships doing normal duty rather than college punks (no disrespect) of today. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 8:46:04 PM EDT
[#36]
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Technobabble was just an excuse for lousy writing. Contrived technobabble problem to create the tension. Bullshit analogy and technobabble solution to fix it. Like a balloon. And something bad happening! |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 10:12:47 PM EDT
[#37]
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For all the diehards, view this as an opportunity to view life in what would normally be a Pike era Enterprise. Obviously we've accelerated Kirk's command, but it is interesting to see our favorites in their youth, before they are seasoned with "I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am." As for Kirk taking command, I gathered it was a ship crewed entirely, nearly, with midshipmen in key positions, Kirk was a senior midshipmen on a command/warfare track vice Spocks science track and thus next most qualified to command after it was revealed the ONLY other senior officer, Spock, was compromised for command. In other words, once Spock was out, there were no real officers onboard, and Kirk was the most qualified of the cadets. Plus I think we are supposed to take that midshipmen of Star Fleet are more like classic Royal Navy Midshipmen who served on frontline warships doing normal duty rather than college punks (no disrespect) of today. I'm pretty sure there were other officers of higher rank than midshipman onboard the ship. I'm pretty sure you could see several on the bridge in fact. Midshipmen are generally only given command when all higher officers are dead, under arrest, incapacitated, or off the ship for various reasons. The ship was probably mdshipman-heavy, with midshipman taking positions normally occupied by both officers and enlisted men, but there were certainly both of the latter around, enough to at least call them a cadre force. The accelerated command thing was even more preposterous. There is no way they would promote someone from midshipman to captain and give them a ship just like that even if they did perform some great feats. All this was was lazy writing to get the results they wanted in the plot. Without that the movie would not have gone as it did at all and any sequels would be hard to make satisfying with Kirk in a junior position. I think it would have been better to just show the early days than do the whole alternate timeline thing. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 10:41:43 PM EDT
[#38]
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Hope so I am life long ST fan and I loved this latest remake better than the last 3 regular ST movies IMO Generations was barely watchable. Well, the Kirk parts were OK. First Contact kicked ass! One of the best ST movies. Insurrection was just dumb. Nemesis had potential, but was meh.
Agree 100% Quoted:
Cut down on the lens flare and a little more judicial use of shakeycam is all I ask. I liked the lens flare, though I agree with the part about the shakeycam. Why is that so popular in recent years? The last two Bourne movies (especially the last) were completely unwatchable. Insurrection was just dumb. Not, Picard and Donna Murphy relationship made it for me. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 10:44:36 PM EDT
[#39]
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The one with Picard and the Borg was the best. (Forgot the name of the movie) First Contact IMHO, First Contact is second only to The Wrath of Khan. Agree! The speed of the Enterprise was awsome! Spock dying and the amazine grace- woooo! |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 10:46:50 PM EDT
[#40]
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I think that was 4? its been years since I've seen them.
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The one with Picard and the Borg was the best. (Forgot the name of the movie) First Contact IMHO, First Contact is second only to The Wrath of Khan. First Contact only seemed good because Generations sucked so hard. Insurrection and Nemesis were just two giant face palms. What was the name of the movie that Kirk was on trial for killing one of the Klingon High command officers. It was 6 and Kirk stood trial for the death of Chancellor Gorkon Most of the even number shows were the good ones. 2,4,6, ect. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 10:47:14 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I wish JJ would go back and make a movie from the "countdown" comic. It tells the lead in story for the last movie. Captain Data, General Worf, Ambassodors Picard and Spock...it would be a good flick. Shouldn't that be Admiral Worf, not general?  General Worf of the Klingon Empire. Klingon's don't have Admirals. Ah, I was thinking Starfleet. Countdown is set eight years after Nemesis. Worf must have settled the score once and for all, if he is a General. He did that in DS9 - the guy could have been Chancellor, but he gave the job to Martok... Maybe that's how he got the General's rank... I mean, the leaders of the Empire both owe their jobs to him... |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 10:49:08 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The one with Picard and the Borg was the best. (Forgot the name of the movie) First Contact IMHO, First Contact is second only to The Wrath of Khan. First Contact only seemed good because Generations sucked so hard. Insurrection and Nemesis were just two giant face palms. What was the name of the movie that Kirk was on trial for killing one of the Klingon High command officers. That was 'Undiscovered Country'. Easily the best of the 'original series' movies, with Wrath of Khan coming in #2.... |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 10:56:25 PM EDT
[#43]
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That was 'Undiscovered Country'. Easily the best of the 'original series' movies, with Wrath of Khan coming in #2.... Agreed. I enjoyed all of the TOS movies, but Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country I LOVED. Excellent movies. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 10:58:12 PM EDT
[#44]
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That was 'Undiscovered Country'. Easily the best of the 'original series' movies, with Wrath of Khan coming in #2.... My two favorites also, but I give Khan a slight edge to being the best. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 11:03:42 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Quoted: Time to make a post- Voyager movie "Post" as in "after they got home"? Hmmmm..... 9 years since the last episode. Can't really pick it up from there as everyone has aged too much. Also where would you go with a plot? Back to the Delta Quadrant? If not they're just another Starship and crew in the Alpha Quadrant. DS9 would be interesting since years gone by would fit perfectly with Ben's time with the Prophets. Everyone returning older, wiser and with lots of backstories to fill in could make for a great film series. I believe 'Admiral Janeway' shows up in Nemesis... |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 11:06:32 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: Some stuff was just really sloppy. Like what ship captain in his right mind would bypass everyone in the chain of command and give control to some midshipman. Likewise, there is no military I can think of that would promote a midshipman to captain and give him a ship. The captain going over to the ship I can tolerate mainly because that has always been done on Star Trek. The rest was rather preposterous and the movie only functions because of these things. The entire crew was cadets, except for Captain Pike & Spock... They killed off everyone else... Still, the part about Kirk going from cadet to Captain in one mission is absurd.... |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 11:09:15 PM EDT
[#47]
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Some stuff was just really sloppy. Like what ship captain in his right mind would bypass everyone in the chain of command and give control to some midshipman. Likewise, there is no military I can think of that would promote a midshipman to captain and give him a ship. The captain going over to the ship I can tolerate mainly because that has always been done on Star Trek. The rest was rather preposterous and the movie only functions because of these things. The entire crew was cadets, except for Captain Pike & Spock... They killed off everyone else... Still, the part about Kirk going from cadet to Captain in one mission is absurd.... Who else was there? He was a senior cadet and Spock was shown to be unfit. There was literally no one else. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 11:11:22 PM EDT
[#48]
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Time to make a post- Voyager movie "Post" as in "after they got home"? Hmmmm..... 9 years since the last episode. Can't really pick it up from there as everyone has aged too much. Also where would you go with a plot? Back to the Delta Quadrant? If not they're just another Starship and crew in the Alpha Quadrant. DS9 would be interesting since years gone by would fit perfectly with Ben's time with the Prophets. Everyone returning older, wiser and with lots of backstories to fill in could make for a great film series. I believe 'Admiral Janeway' shows up in Nemesis... DS9 Hard to tell. They could take that one in any direction since time is not lenerer with the prophets. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 11:12:03 PM EDT
[#49]
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Some stuff was just really sloppy. Like what ship captain in his right mind would bypass everyone in the chain of command and give control to some midshipman. Likewise, there is no military I can think of that would promote a midshipman to captain and give him a ship. The captain going over to the ship I can tolerate mainly because that has always been done on Star Trek. The rest was rather preposterous and the movie only functions because of these things. The entire crew was cadets, except for Captain Pike & Spock... They killed off everyone else... Still, the part about Kirk going from cadet to Captain in one mission is absurd.... I'm almost certain there were other officers aboard the Enterprise. I don't recall all Starfleet officers being killed before the Enterprise was launched. I'll have to watch it again and see. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 11:12:12 PM EDT
[#50]
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Some stuff was just really sloppy. Like what ship captain in his right mind would bypass everyone in the chain of command and give control to some midshipman. Likewise, there is no military I can think of that would promote a midshipman to captain and give him a ship. The captain going over to the ship I can tolerate mainly because that has always been done on Star Trek. The rest was rather preposterous and the movie only functions because of these things. The entire crew was cadets, except for Captain Pike & Spock... They killed off everyone else... Still, the part about Kirk going from cadet to Captain in one mission is absurd.... Who else was there? He was a senior cadet and Spock was shown to be unfit. There was literally no one else. The doctor? |
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