As a person that has owned both glock a 1911 styles I have to say I found the 1911 much nicer to shoot.  As a general rule with me and anyone else that shot it they were more accurate with the 1911 also.  I don't see too many people that fire a 1.5" group at 15 yards (unsupported) never having handled that type of gun before.  Even with extensive use I only managed to get a 3 or 4" group out of a glock (supported at 25 yards).  If the high capacity is an issue on your mind you can get a Para Ordnance 14-45LDA and get the high cap mags.  The High caps bring the capacity to 15 shots of 45 cal.  Some people do find these hard to get used to having the wide handle to accomodate the double stack.  If that is the case You can get a 1911 with the single stack magazine.  An extra 7 rnd magazine does not take up much space and a mag can be changed with the push of a button and a release lever.  With practice may take all of one second for a change out.  The safety on typical 1911's is one thing to get used to and will require practice until you get used to pulling and automatically disengaging the safety.  I can't see how this is a big deal as I beleive you should train extensively with any gun you buy to allow for safer operation for you and everyone around you.  If this seems to a setback for you the P.O. 14-45LDA does not REQUIRE use of the saftey for carry because the hammer is store in the lowered position due to the fact the gun is a double auto.  All that is needed for this gun is to pull and shoot.  Even with such a model I would train using the safety and start using it when you are proficient.  As for my glock it was traded.  I did not see the point in keeping a gun that noone was able to operate as well and could not shoot as tight a groups as my 1911.  By the way this was a 1911 straight out of the box with no modifications.  And also the groups I have included are not by professional shooters by any means.  I hope this helps.

The Glock's mushy trigger can be controlled by a good shooter. No doubt about it. His groups won't be as good as with a crisp trigger. But they will be OK.

However, when going fast, the mushy trigger is going to cost more--either in accuracy, or speed, or (most likely) both. If the Glock shooter is heads and shoulders better than a given 1911 shooter, he will win, but if the shooters are comparable the one with the 1911 will win.

Since serious shooters tend to optimize their performance, they tend to shoot 1911s (or perhaps HPs, P-210s, CZ-75s, etc.) and avoid guns with mushy triggers.

Now, Glocks are not way behind 1911s in performance. They are just a little behind. They do point differently, and this makes it hard to justfy training with one, since I would be undoing my training with my 1911. After teaching myself to point "here" I would be teaching myself, "no, point here instead".

I have little interest in Glocks, not because I have little interest in shooting well but rather because I wish to obtain the highest skill level I can achieve. I will not achieve this skill level with a Glock, and I will not achieve it by switching back and forth between Glocks and 1911s.

I have had both gun's I still have my Glock sold my 1911.

Go with the one you can shoot better with you may also look at the Glock 21 and the pistol grip reduction they have at Robar.

Assuming you might keep a pistol for other than plinking tin cans on a lazy afternoon.  Lets say that you might need to save a life with it some day, then the gun you shoot best is the one you will want to have in your hand if and when that time comes.  Get the gun that fits you best and you shoot best.

Having said that a few observations.  To paraphrase the venerable Jeff Cooper; a double action trigger on an autoloading pistol is a solution in search of a problem.  The autoloader with a DA trigger is essentially the product of a bureaucrat's mandate due to fear of wrongfull death lawsuits.  Bureaucrats are unwilling to mandate, and more importantly fund, sufficient training and practice to allow people they requrie to carry a pistol to be truly proficient.  Effectively, the DA trigger on an autoloader is a bureaucrat tapping you on the shoulder in that gut wrenching moment when you whip out your pistola to save your life and asking "Hey buddy, do you really mean to pull that trigger?".  The long, and usually hard, DA trigger pull kills accuracy in small handed/weak trainees, so an improvement in accuracy can be gained by going to the Glock trigger.  As the trigger pull gets easier the number of accidents go up.

Now I have to be honest, I don't like Glocks because they don't have a safety.  They do have some excellent design features.  The axis of the barrel is low, close to the axis of support (forearm) yielding good recoil characteristics.  But, it still don't have a safety, and nothing I can say is as damning as the fact that there is an aftermarket for a piece of plastic you jam behind the trigger and push out with your trigger finger when "you really mean to pull that trigger".

As for the safety on a 1911 design slowing the first shot, well just last month at the Steel Shoot up in Weld County, CO one course of fire was an 18 in wide 24 in tall plate with a 10 in circular stop plate above it on a single post at 10 yards.  At the beep you had to draw, disengage the safty (on pistols with them) and put 4 hits on the big rectangle and one on the stop plate.  Now I'm just a middle of the pack competitor, the best I could do was a bit under 4 seconds.  The fast guys, yes using 1911 designs, could do it in under 1.9 seconds.  Yes that is draw, safety, and 5 aimed rounds in under 2 seconds, and they did it consistantly with iron sights.

Perfect practice is the key.  As a top notch competitor once told me; "Don't worry about the guy that spends $1000 on his gun, worry about the guy that spends $1000 on primers."  If you aren't practicing enough to make operation of simple controls on the pistol second nature then you ought not to be relying on it to save your life, or the life of a loved one.

Another point regarding a lack of a safety on the Glock.  Do you have kids?  Is the gun ever loaded when it is not in your direct control?  Would it ever be possible for a bad guy to get control of your gun?  If the BG takes a moment to fumble with a safety, it could be your chance to take corrective action.

Good luck with whatever you decide, and please practice with what ever you have.

I HOPE YOU READ THIS, I HAVE OWNED 7 GLOCKS, I HAVE PONDERED THIS QUESTION IN MY MIND 1000 TIMES, .45 1911 OR GLOCK?

WELL, I BOUGHT MY 2ND 1911 LAST WEEK. I LIKE IT CAUSE IT CAN STOP CRACK MONKEYS AND GENERALY ANGRY PEOPLE, BUT......

SO CAN A .45 GLOCK.
BASICALLY WHICH DO YOU FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE WITH? I JUST SOLD MY 1911 TODAY AND BOUGHT M 8TH GLOCK A 26 AND WILL BUY ANOTHER 17 THIS MONTH. SRY 1911'S BUT MY PLASTIC PEICE IS HERE TO STAY.

ABOUT KUIPERS COMMENT ON THE AR'S BEING THE MOST POPULAR RIFLE ETC.

WHAT ABOUT THE FAL?
IT IS ACCEPTED AND USED BY MORE THAN 90 COUNTRIES MILITARY FORCES ON EARTH. IT IS BESIDES THE AK PROBABLY THE MOST POPULAR RIFLE AMONG MILITARY FORCES.

Compromise dillweed, buy a HK USP 45 full size. You get a grip more like the 1911. You get a light weight frame more like the Glock. Option of DA/SA. Single action is great on HK, but DA is a hard pull. Lifetime warranty, accurate right out of the box, built like a tank,you get a hammer, very reliable, virtually no slide to frame wear, and you get 10+1 rounds instead of most 1911s having 7+1 rounds.

I think I almost convinced myself to buy another.

No Slack

While I love 1911s and carry one for CCW, my suggestion would be to NOT SELL the Glock if you can help it.  Just save a little longer for the 1911 and buy it then.

Glocks are good guns, and are definitely durable and reliable.  They are also Ugly as sin, which is why I can't bring myself to buy one.

But, I cry to think of ANYONE selling a quality gun unnecessarily (plus, .40 cal is a nice defensive round...much better than 9mm, but I prefer .45acp myself).

I think he was talking about civilians in Europe.



The FAL was adopted by some 90 countries, but quite a few of them replaced the FALs with G-3s.

And most are replacing the FALs and G-3s with M-16s or some other 5.56 equivelent.

Mexico used FALs, switched to G-3s, and are now going to '16s.

Germany used FALs, switched to G-3s, and now have the new 5.56 HK.

England used FALs and has switched to that crappy 5.56 bullpup (the SAS uses M-4s, and sometimes M-16s, and I understand, G-3s when they want 7.62).

Canady used FALs and switched to the '16.

Turkey used FALs, then switched to G-3s (not sure of their current status).

Israel had FALs, switched to the Galil, and finally the M-16 (or, rather, CAR-15 varients).

This is just a partial list.

As far as the AK--no nation with any bucks has switched to that. Its main advantage was that it was part of a great package deal back during the Cold War.

You like the idea of Glock. Have you looked into a H&K 45. They make Glock but thier own pistols are bit diff in design. They are very light too.
[sniper]

Wow,

Thanks for all the useful info everyone.  Well, I finially decided to do it.  I shot a Springfield 1911 "loaded" the other day and I just have to have one. The kimber was nice but a little too pricy for me. I'm gonna sell the glock and the high cap mags seperately.  Some of us just don't have the cash to keep buying new guns without selling the old ones.  It's great to have a resource like this board.  

In freedom,

"Dillweed"

Dillweed,

This may be a day late, yadda, yadda, since you want the Springfield, but here is a site you can check out: http://www.lonewolfdist.com/LoneWolf-Products-Custom.html#DUR-GR

They are Lone Wolf distributors. Go to the bottom of the page where it says Grip Reduction. Although I own a Glock 22, I have to agree that I like the ergonomics (feel and grip angle), and looks of the 1911 more. But, I can't see buying a 1911, spending another few $100+ to get it tuned when my Glock has been DEPENDABLE right out of the box--although I hear Kimbers are sweet.

From personal experience, you will regret selling your Glock to get the Springfield. Be patient, & save for the 1911. How many here have sold a firearm and regretted it?

I can't see doing that either.  Damn good thing I have never HAD to do that with any of the over two dozen 1911s I have owned.

Howz about a different twist. A 1911 mag will out last a glock mag by about 4-1 I've shot both in IPSC for some 18 years and found the glock mag catches and the front part of the mags(up by the lips) to wear out quickly.

Where did I hear " A safety on the trigger is like putting a combination on the door to the safe." ? I say go 1911, even if those dirty IPSC guys like it too.(this means you Surfer)[:D]

Say "OBSOLETE"

rabbit, I resemble that remark, "The dirty IPSC guy!"  But not the safe(I keep the door open so Mr. ATF can come by anytime he wants.)