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Posted: 10/2/2014 8:28:04 AM EDT
[#1]
If there is a significant energy storage breakthrough, that would be the game changer. Solar panels themselves have fallen dramatically, and in many markets are price competitive with convention grid power, the problem is energy storage.
In Georgia we get enough sunshine, but I want to be an energy glutton 3k kilowatt hours a month. While it's feasible with the amount of land I own to have a large enough array to provide that power, the storage costs to make the system work make it incredibly cumbersome, and enough overcast stretches occur that I'd still need a backup generator if I wanted to be grid free. With that said, there are lots of different research efforts that I believe that sometime over the next 20 years we'll have an energy storage solution. For me it's about getting "free", and a key component is being able to efficiently generate my own power. |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 8:30:45 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I average my last twelve months of electric bills, I pay $100/mo. Doesn't seem like enough to worry about making a change in infrastructure. Reliability is excellent too. You mean you don't want to spend $30K on solar cells in order to "save the planet"???? Shame on you! |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 8:33:31 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You mean you don't want to spend $30K on solar cells in order to "save the planet"???? Shame on you! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If I average my last twelve months of electric bills, I pay $100/mo. Doesn't seem like enough to worry about making a change in infrastructure. Reliability is excellent too. You mean you don't want to spend $30K on solar cells in order to "save the planet"???? Shame on you! 
Same ... we avg 75$ a month ... |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 8:34:02 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If there is a significant energy storage breakthrough, that would be the game changer. Solar panels themselves have fallen dramatically, and in many markets are price competitive with convention grid power, the problem is energy storage. In Georgia we get enough sunshine, but I want to be an energy glutton 3k kilowatt hours a month. While it's feasible with the amount of land I own to have a large enough array to provide that power, the storage costs to make the system work make it incredibly cumbersome, and enough overcast stretches occur that I'd still need a backup generator if I wanted to be grid free. With that said, there are lots of different research efforts that I believe that sometime over the next 20 years we'll have an energy storage solution. For me it's about getting "free", and a key component is being able to efficiently generate my own power. If solar cells were economically feasible everybody would have them. The bottom line is that they are not cost effective. Maybe one of the days hundreds of years from now when we run out of oil then that will be the only game in town but we are not there yet by a long shot. |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 9:59:21 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If solar cells were economically feasible everybody would have them. The bottom line is that they are not cost effective. Maybe one of the days hundreds of years from now when we run out of oil then that will be the only game in town but we are not there yet by a long shot. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If there is a significant energy storage breakthrough, that would be the game changer. Solar panels themselves have fallen dramatically, and in many markets are price competitive with convention grid power, the problem is energy storage. In Georgia we get enough sunshine, but I want to be an energy glutton 3k kilowatt hours a month. While it's feasible with the amount of land I own to have a large enough array to provide that power, the storage costs to make the system work make it incredibly cumbersome, and enough overcast stretches occur that I'd still need a backup generator if I wanted to be grid free. With that said, there are lots of different research efforts that I believe that sometime over the next 20 years we'll have an energy storage solution. For me it's about getting "free", and a key component is being able to efficiently generate my own power. If solar cells were economically feasible everybody would have them. The bottom line is that they are not cost effective. Maybe one of the days hundreds of years from now when we run out of oil then that will be the only game in town but we are not there yet by a long shot. What does the cost of oil have to do with it? We generate very little electricity from oil. The primary sources for our electricity in the United States are coal and natural gas which make up 70% of the grids power, about 20% comes from nuclear, 7% hydroelectric...almost none of it comes from oil. The cost per watt for solar energy has dropped dramatically over the last 30 years, and continues to decline. In some areas of the country the cost per watt is already competitive with grid supplied power. So, I don't understand your point about it taking centuries. ...the cost trend is down. Installing a solar system does require a front end expense which many can't or choose not to afford, but for the average home, the "in your pocket" cost savings in my state of Georgia over 20 years is around $20k. So, I assure you it is economically feasible right now. For some states the saving is even more. Oh, and that assumes grid costs don't rise significantly. I don't get some ARFcomer's association with a desire for self-reliance, and financial independence with being a "Greenie", I assure my interest in it has nothing to do with saving the environment. It's ALL solar energy in the end. It's a matter of how you tap it. Fossil fuels are simply "solar energy" trapped by nature. Harvesting energy from the Sun is just cutting out a time consuming middle step in that process, and severing ties to labor intensive "grid maintenance". It's not going to happen tomorrow, but it will happen much sooner then you anticipate. |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 10:15:28 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
5 130 watt sharp's(USA made in TN) 6 -55A/H 12volt batteries This is on my Fifth wheel that i live in full time. Plan to add at least 2 more panels and get a new/bigger inverter in a few months. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How many panels and what rating (each and total) do you have? Brand and model? How big is your battery bank? 5 130 watt sharp's(USA made in TN) 6 -55A/H 12volt batteries This is on my Fifth wheel that i live in full time. Plan to add at least 2 more panels and get a new/bigger inverter in a few months. Is it down by the river? 
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Posted: 10/2/2014 10:15:37 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FUCK THE GOVERNMENT THAT SUBSIDIZES SOLAR. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
http://www.vox.com/2014/9/29/6849723/solar-power-net-metering-utilities-fight-states I'm gonna expand my system in a few months. FUCK THE BIG UTILITIES. FUCK THE TAXES WE PAY ON ELECTRICITY ALSO. FUCK THE GOVERNMENT THAT SUBSIDIZES SOLAR. This^^^^^^^^^ |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 10:18:09 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Solar power also generates the same output per dollar subsidized as nuclear energy.  But nuclear is reliable, on demand and gives everything a healthy green glow. |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 10:21:08 AM EDT
[#9]
Instead of adjusting to the market the electrical utilities try to stop it. Brilliant!
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Posted: 10/2/2014 10:51:24 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What does the cost of oil have to do with it? We generate very little electricity from oil. The primary sources for our electricity in the United States are coal and natural gas which make up 70% of the grids power, about 20% comes from nuclear, 7% hydroelectric...almost none of it comes from oil. The cost per watt for solar energy has dropped dramatically over the last 30 years, and continues to decline. In some areas of the country the cost per watt is already competitive with grid supplied power. So, I don't understand your point about it taking centuries. ...the cost trend is down. Installing a solar system does require a front end expense which many can't or choose not to afford, but for the average home, the "in your pocket" cost savings in my state of Georgia over 20 years is around $20k. So, I assure you it is economically feasible right now. For some states the saving is even more. Oh, and that assumes grid costs don't rise significantly. I don't get some ARFcomer's association with a desire for self-reliance, and financial independence with being a "Greenie", I assure my interest in it has nothing to do with saving the environment. It's ALL solar energy in the end. It's a matter of how you tap it. Fossil fuels are simply "solar energy" trapped by nature. Harvesting energy from the Sun is just cutting out a time consuming middle step in that process, and severing ties to labor intensive "grid maintenance". It's not going to happen tomorrow, but it will happen much sooner then you anticipate. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If there is a significant energy storage breakthrough, that would be the game changer. Solar panels themselves have fallen dramatically, and in many markets are price competitive with convention grid power, the problem is energy storage. In Georgia we get enough sunshine, but I want to be an energy glutton 3k kilowatt hours a month. While it's feasible with the amount of land I own to have a large enough array to provide that power, the storage costs to make the system work make it incredibly cumbersome, and enough overcast stretches occur that I'd still need a backup generator if I wanted to be grid free. With that said, there are lots of different research efforts that I believe that sometime over the next 20 years we'll have an energy storage solution. For me it's about getting "free", and a key component is being able to efficiently generate my own power. If solar cells were economically feasible everybody would have them. The bottom line is that they are not cost effective. Maybe one of the days hundreds of years from now when we run out of oil then that will be the only game in town but we are not there yet by a long shot. What does the cost of oil have to do with it? We generate very little electricity from oil. The primary sources for our electricity in the United States are coal and natural gas which make up 70% of the grids power, about 20% comes from nuclear, 7% hydroelectric...almost none of it comes from oil. The cost per watt for solar energy has dropped dramatically over the last 30 years, and continues to decline. In some areas of the country the cost per watt is already competitive with grid supplied power. So, I don't understand your point about it taking centuries. ...the cost trend is down. Installing a solar system does require a front end expense which many can't or choose not to afford, but for the average home, the "in your pocket" cost savings in my state of Georgia over 20 years is around $20k. So, I assure you it is economically feasible right now. For some states the saving is even more. Oh, and that assumes grid costs don't rise significantly. I don't get some ARFcomer's association with a desire for self-reliance, and financial independence with being a "Greenie", I assure my interest in it has nothing to do with saving the environment. It's ALL solar energy in the end. It's a matter of how you tap it. Fossil fuels are simply "solar energy" trapped by nature. Harvesting energy from the Sun is just cutting out a time consuming middle step in that process, and severing ties to labor intensive "grid maintenance". It's not going to happen tomorrow, but it will happen much sooner then you anticipate. Do you have some links for this? |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 10:53:08 AM EDT
[#11]
We need a tutorial on equipment and installation for home solar power.
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Posted: 10/2/2014 11:03:03 AM EDT
[#12]
what maintenance are required on the panels? besides whatever routing cleaning, i mean. do they glaze over likve car lights?
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Posted: 10/2/2014 11:08:18 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The sun is scary. Yep! You just know the left will start demanding we stop using the sun. It is burning out. Save the sun or die.
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Posted: 10/2/2014 11:15:11 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: what maintenance are required on the panels? besides whatever routing cleaning, i mean. do they glaze over likve car lights? zero maintenance.
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Posted: 10/2/2014 11:17:08 AM EDT
[#15]
Ga power has succeeded . Owned by the southern company. Last I heard the rule in Georgia is that they not have to buy your excess power .
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 11:20:53 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh btw, having the government force the utilities to buy solar power at the full retail rate is complete bullshit. The government has no business fixing prices *anywhere*. That is what the utilities are pissed about. And no wonder, they only get to sell that power at the same retail rate, but transmission losses and infrastructure costs are pure losses for them. They are being forced to buy intermittent power that they cannot adjust their base load servicing to accommodate. A lot of this bought back power ends up getting dumped into the Earth and the cost of buying it is passed along to consumers. The whole thing is a scam except maybe in places like the Southwest where is it sunny 250+ days of the year. |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 11:21:07 AM EDT
[#17]
Solar will be king when efficiency/cost hits a magic ratio. Shouldn't be too far in the future.
I will wait until then. |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 11:21:18 AM EDT
[#18]
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I wish. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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My system is off grid BTW. Is your avatar also a selfie?  I wish. Damn, Gordon Freeman got old! |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 11:21:29 AM EDT
[#19]
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Between the cost of batteries, Inverters, pannels, controllers, and cables...are you really going to save any money in the end? What about winter time, when you get less sun. Have fun replacing your batteries when they die. With that said, I think that solar energy is pretty cool and I would likely do it if I though it was cost effective to run my entire home, which it isn't. Free energy really isn't free. Up here it is worth it. Electric rates are one of the highest in the country. Grid tie-in is relatively cheap. The battery backups are expensive. New inverters will run a 30amp circuit so you can splurge and get 2-3 inverters power your house on emergency power if needed. |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 11:21:54 AM EDT
[#20]
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It's a no brainier if you plan to stay at your current house. Electricity rates will only go up no mater where you live. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Jeez louise. 34 cents per rated watt http://sunelec.com/tianwei-90w.html Chinese panels, I think. It's a no brainier if you plan to stay at your current house. Electricity rates will only go up no mater where you live. NG Fracking disagrees. |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 11:23:13 AM EDT
[#21]
I still dont get the watt ratings, is that how much you use a day?
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Posted: 10/2/2014 11:24:00 AM EDT
[#22]
I wish I knew more about solar power equipment and requirements to do it.
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Posted: 10/2/2014 11:25:51 AM EDT
[#23]
So if net metering goes away, would that mean if I use 1000 KW/hr of grid power but send back 500KW/hr I'll be charged for 1000KW/hr?
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Posted: 10/2/2014 11:26:09 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Arfcom has taught me that renewable energy is evil and we should all be using coal and oil. It's a fact. |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 11:26:31 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Solar will be king when efficiency/cost hits a magic ratio. Shouldn't be too far in the future. I will wait until then. Solar will be king when they figure out an economical way to store it. The panels could be free and that is still pretty much a show-stopper. If it could be stored and buffered to the grid, it would be useful to utilities and useful in general. P-B Fusion is gonna be the end of everything but P-B Fusion anyways. |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 8:20:30 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
what maintenance are required on the panels? besides whatever routing cleaning, i mean. do they glaze over likve car lights? No they are glass on top Silicon(usually) cells underneath and sealed on the bottom of the glass. There are other designs out there but none with a plastic top layer. They usually have a 25 year warranty to put out at least 80% of the rated power output. |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 10:38:50 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Same ... we avg 75$ a month ... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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If I average my last twelve months of electric bills, I pay $100/mo. Doesn't seem like enough to worry about making a change in infrastructure. Reliability is excellent too. You mean you don't want to spend $30K on solar cells in order to "save the planet"???? Shame on you!
Same ... we avg 75$ a month ... We're around $50/month |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 10:41:30 PM EDT
[#28]
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Well when SHTF or natural disasters strike don't you still want power to get on arfcom at least? Most grid connected inverters shut down when there is no power BTW. 100 percent off grid is the way to go. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Can't justify solar $80 a month Well when SHTF or natural disasters strike don't you still want power to get on arfcom at least? Most grid connected inverters shut down when there is no power BTW. 100 percent off grid is the way to go. If you live in a 5th wheel. 
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Posted: 10/2/2014 10:42:32 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well when SHTF or natural disasters strike don't you still want power to get on arfcom at least? Most grid connected inverters shut down when there is no power BTW. 100 percent off grid is the way to go. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Can't justify solar $80 a month Well when SHTF or natural disasters strike don't you still want power to get on arfcom at least? Most grid connected inverters shut down when there is no power BTW. 100 percent off grid is the way to go. |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 10:54:52 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you have some links for this? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If there is a significant energy storage breakthrough, that would be the game changer. Solar panels themselves have fallen dramatically, and in many markets are price competitive with convention grid power, the problem is energy storage. In Georgia we get enough sunshine, but I want to be an energy glutton 3k kilowatt hours a month. While it's feasible with the amount of land I own to have a large enough array to provide that power, the storage costs to make the system work make it incredibly cumbersome, and enough overcast stretches occur that I'd still need a backup generator if I wanted to be grid free. With that said, there are lots of different research efforts that I believe that sometime over the next 20 years we'll have an energy storage solution. For me it's about getting "free", and a key component is being able to efficiently generate my own power. If solar cells were economically feasible everybody would have them. The bottom line is that they are not cost effective. Maybe one of the days hundreds of years from now when we run out of oil then that will be the only game in town but we are not there yet by a long shot. What does the cost of oil have to do with it? We generate very little electricity from oil. The primary sources for our electricity in the United States are coal and natural gas which make up 70% of the grids power, about 20% comes from nuclear, 7% hydroelectric...almost none of it comes from oil. The cost per watt for solar energy has dropped dramatically over the last 30 years, and continues to decline. In some areas of the country the cost per watt is already competitive with grid supplied power. So, I don't understand your point about it taking centuries. ...the cost trend is down. Installing a solar system does require a front end expense which many can't or choose not to afford, but for the average home, the "in your pocket" cost savings in my state of Georgia over 20 years is around $20k. So, I assure you it is economically feasible right now. For some states the saving is even more. Oh, and that assumes grid costs don't rise significantly. I don't get some ARFcomer's association with a desire for self-reliance, and financial independence with being a "Greenie", I assure my interest in it has nothing to do with saving the environment. It's ALL solar energy in the end. It's a matter of how you tap it. Fossil fuels are simply "solar energy" trapped by nature. Harvesting energy from the Sun is just cutting out a time consuming middle step in that process, and severing ties to labor intensive "grid maintenance". It's not going to happen tomorrow, but it will happen much sooner then you anticipate. Do you have some links for this? lol Which part?
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Posted: 10/3/2014 2:10:19 AM EDT
[#31]
I'm going to go with "that doesn't work in North Dakota" for $100, please.
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Posted: 10/3/2014 2:18:51 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You were taught right. Btw, we don't say it is evil. We say it should playby the same rules. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Arfcom has taught me that renewable energy is evil and we should all be using coal and oil. It's a fact. So you agree that wind and solar should receive the same amount of assistance as coal and oil? |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 2:19:03 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm going to go with "that doesn't work in North Dakota" for $100, please. Residents of North Dakota have very good access to the solar resource.
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Posted: 10/3/2014 2:34:42 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FUCK THE GOVERNMENT THAT SUBSIDIZES SOLAR. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
http://www.vox.com/2014/9/29/6849723/solar-power-net-metering-utilities-fight-states I'm gonna expand my system in a few months. FUCK THE BIG UTILITIES. FUCK THE TAXES WE PAY ON ELECTRICITY ALSO. FUCK THE GOVERNMENT THAT SUBSIDIZES SOLAR. Is that the same one that subsidizes oil, coal and nuclear? |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 2:38:15 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is that the same one that subsidizes oil, coal and nuclear? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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http://www.vox.com/2014/9/29/6849723/solar-power-net-metering-utilities-fight-states I'm gonna expand my system in a few months. FUCK THE BIG UTILITIES. FUCK THE TAXES WE PAY ON ELECTRICITY ALSO. FUCK THE GOVERNMENT THAT SUBSIDIZES SOLAR. Is that the same one that subsidizes oil, coal and nuclear? Nope. Solar and wind will never get as much subsidies as coal, oil, and nuclear. Never. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 2:43:06 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nope. Solar and wind will never get as much subsidies as coal, oil, and nuclear. Never. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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http://www.vox.com/2014/9/29/6849723/solar-power-net-metering-utilities-fight-states I'm gonna expand my system in a few months. FUCK THE BIG UTILITIES. FUCK THE TAXES WE PAY ON ELECTRICITY ALSO. FUCK THE GOVERNMENT THAT SUBSIDIZES SOLAR. Is that the same one that subsidizes oil, coal and nuclear? Nope. Solar and wind will never get as much subsidies as coal, oil, and nuclear. Never. Fuck. I'd love to see us selling tanks and fighter planes to the sun or maybe invading mercury to keep them fuckers in check when they try to orbit into our sunlight. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 4:07:42 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are being forced to buy intermittent power that they cannot adjust their base load servicing to accommodate. A lot of this bought back power ends up getting dumped into the Earth and the cost of buying it is passed along to consumers. The whole thing is a scam except maybe in places like the Southwest where is it sunny 250+ days of the year. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Oh btw, having the government force the utilities to buy solar power at the full retail rate is complete bullshit. The government has no business fixing prices *anywhere*. That is what the utilities are pissed about. And no wonder, they only get to sell that power at the same retail rate, but transmission losses and infrastructure costs are pure losses for them. They are being forced to buy intermittent power that they cannot adjust their base load servicing to accommodate. A lot of this bought back power ends up getting dumped into the Earth and the cost of buying it is passed along to consumers. The whole thing is a scam except maybe in places like the Southwest where is it sunny 250+ days of the year. Who makes this up? How do you dump electricity back to the earth? The amount of solar electricity is a small percentage of the total. If it was over a 100% you might geet away with that. But it isn't in peroids of peak soalr production, you adjust your coal or NG to produce less. This saves you in fuel costs. As for buying it at retail, my excess in the day is drawn out at night. I do produce more than I use. That amount is calculated once a year and the then buy it for the bulk rate, put the money into my account. I pay a line fee of about $3 a month. If I draw more electricty in a month I buy it at retail. In effect I am selling at bulk and still buying at retail. Also in NJ the weather is crappy quite often. I have days where I produce 7 KWHs total, most days 20 to 30 KWhs and summer I get some 60 KWH days. Over all I produce 12 MWHs a year. that is about normal use in my area. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 4:27:15 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Arfcom has taught me that renewable energy is evil and we should all be using coal and oil. It's a fact. Because when we run out of dinosaur blood and dinosaur bones, GD will be dead. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 4:28:32 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If they ever get dirty and you want them cleaned, that's my job. Literally, solar panel cleaning is a thing. I wondered about that. I assume you have to sort of know what you're doing... |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 4:28:58 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If by that you mean renewable energy is greenwashed and we should be using nuclear as a stopgap until fission is feasible, then yea. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Arfcom has taught me that renewable energy is evil and we should all be using coal and oil. It's a fact. Bingo! |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 5:11:25 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bingo! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Arfcom has taught me that renewable energy is evil and we should all be using coal and oil. It's a fact. Bingo! Fission power has been feasible and in use since the 60s. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 8:22:00 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What does the cost of oil have to do with it? We generate very little electricity from oil. The primary sources for our electricity in the United States are coal and natural gas which make up 70% of the grids power, about 20% comes from nuclear, 7% hydroelectric...almost none of it comes from oil. The cost per watt for solar energy has dropped dramatically over the last 30 years, and continues to decline. In some areas of the country the cost per watt is already competitive with grid supplied power. So, I don't understand your point about it taking centuries. ...the cost trend is down. Installing a solar system does require a front end expense which many can't or choose not to afford, but for the average home, the "in your pocket" cost savings in my state of Georgia over 20 years is around $20k. So, I assure you it is economically feasible right now. For some states the saving is even more. Oh, and that assumes grid costs don't rise significantly. I don't get some ARFcomer's association with a desire for self-reliance, and financial independence with being a "Greenie", I assure my interest in it has nothing to do with saving the environment. It's ALL solar energy in the end. It's a matter of how you tap it. Fossil fuels are simply "solar energy" trapped by nature. Harvesting energy from the Sun is just cutting out a time consuming middle step in that process, and severing ties to labor intensive "grid maintenance". It's not going to happen tomorrow, but it will happen much sooner then you anticipate. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If there is a significant energy storage breakthrough, that would be the game changer. Solar panels themselves have fallen dramatically, and in many markets are price competitive with convention grid power, the problem is energy storage. In Georgia we get enough sunshine, but I want to be an energy glutton 3k kilowatt hours a month. While it's feasible with the amount of land I own to have a large enough array to provide that power, the storage costs to make the system work make it incredibly cumbersome, and enough overcast stretches occur that I'd still need a backup generator if I wanted to be grid free. With that said, there are lots of different research efforts that I believe that sometime over the next 20 years we'll have an energy storage solution. For me it's about getting "free", and a key component is being able to efficiently generate my own power. If solar cells were economically feasible everybody would have them. The bottom line is that they are not cost effective. Maybe one of the days hundreds of years from now when we run out of oil then that will be the only game in town but we are not there yet by a long shot. What does the cost of oil have to do with it? We generate very little electricity from oil. The primary sources for our electricity in the United States are coal and natural gas which make up 70% of the grids power, about 20% comes from nuclear, 7% hydroelectric...almost none of it comes from oil. The cost per watt for solar energy has dropped dramatically over the last 30 years, and continues to decline. In some areas of the country the cost per watt is already competitive with grid supplied power. So, I don't understand your point about it taking centuries. ...the cost trend is down. Installing a solar system does require a front end expense which many can't or choose not to afford, but for the average home, the "in your pocket" cost savings in my state of Georgia over 20 years is around $20k. So, I assure you it is economically feasible right now. For some states the saving is even more. Oh, and that assumes grid costs don't rise significantly. I don't get some ARFcomer's association with a desire for self-reliance, and financial independence with being a "Greenie", I assure my interest in it has nothing to do with saving the environment. It's ALL solar energy in the end. It's a matter of how you tap it. Fossil fuels are simply "solar energy" trapped by nature. Harvesting energy from the Sun is just cutting out a time consuming middle step in that process, and severing ties to labor intensive "grid maintenance". It's not going to happen tomorrow, but it will happen much sooner then you anticipate. I used the term "oil" generically to mean fossil fuels. I have no problem with solar power and you are right, we will get there one day. What I have a problem with is the government taking my money and using it to subsidize technology and business that are economically unfeasible in today's market. The government should not be in the business of taking money from one person and giving it to another like they did with Solyndra and are doing with other ventures nowadays. Let the free market dictate the transfer of technology. By the way, (with respect) I doubt your numbers. While not a solar energy expert I am an Environmental Engineer that has ran the numbers on solar conversions. After retiring I taught a few courses in Environmental Science at the college level. One of the class assignments was to calculate the conversion to solar for a home and run out the numbers for 30 years. It never worked out to be a savings even here in Florida with a tremendous amount of sunshine per year. I don't think anybody in the US is going to save $20K in 20 years by converting to solar. I haven't ran the numbers in more than ten years and the economics many have changed slightly but when I did it just didn't work out. Solar was much more expensive over a life time than buying electricity off the grid. I would like to see your calculation because I suspect you are selective and did not look at every cost or every factor. I think the bottom line is that if you are right and many people could save $20K in 20 years to convert to solar then there would be solar powered houses going up all over the place. However, that is not the case. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 8:29:49 AM EDT
[#43]
The real race against solar is the ever increasing efficiency of residential construction. Home energy demands are going down and natural gas usage is increasing. You will also see "access" fees for those who have solar power to be attached to the grid which will only make solar less financially attractive then it already is.
When you think of solar, think life cycle costs. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 8:46:43 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If there is a significant energy storage breakthrough, that would be the game changer. Solar panels themselves have fallen dramatically, and in many markets are price competitive with convention grid power, the problem is energy storage. In Georgia we get enough sunshine, but I want to be an energy glutton 3k kilowatt hours a month. While it's feasible with the amount of land I own to have a large enough array to provide that power, the storage costs to make the system work make it incredibly cumbersome, and enough overcast stretches occur that I'd still need a backup generator if I wanted to be grid free. With that said, there are lots of different research efforts that I believe that sometime over the next 20 years we'll have an energy storage solution. For me it's about getting "free", and a key component is being able to efficiently generate my own power. It's 9nly price competitive in places with artificially high electric rates. I pay 10.1c /kwH at my house and 8.8 at my office. Take away the subsidies and retail rate buy back and see what happens. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 2:14:18 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fission power has been feasible and in use since the 60s. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Arfcom has taught me that renewable energy is evil and we should all be using coal and oil. It's a fact. Bingo! Fission power has been feasible and in use since the 60s. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 2:18:06 PM EDT
[#46]
Not really feasible where I live.
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Posted: 10/5/2014 10:42:23 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you agree that wind and solar should receive the same amount of assistance as coal and oil? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Arfcom has taught me that renewable energy is evil and we should all be using coal and oil. It's a fact. So you agree that wind and solar should receive the same amount of assistance as coal and oil? Sink or swim on there own. In any event solar and wind get way more support than hydrocarbon fuels. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 10:46:31 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fission has, commercial fission power plants have been not. But the gains being made have been exponential. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Arfcom has taught me that renewable energy is evil and we should all be using coal and oil. It's a fact. Bingo! Fission power has been feasible and in use since the 60s. I think you mean fusion. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 10:51:11 AM EDT
[#49]
Off grid will be punished and taxed by the crony system. Already the case in Europe and it is coming here.
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Posted: 10/5/2014 10:57:23 AM EDT
[#50]
Yet when the sun goes down, you gladly use the electricity provided by coal plants.
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