So with the ensured expiration of the AWB are you GWB bashers... - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - So with the ensured expiration of the AWB are you GWB bashers... (Page 2 of 4)

Posted: 9/12/2004 11:16:54 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Quoted:
To blame Bush for McCain is as stupid as giving Bush credit for guys like Delay, Frist and Craig.

Now if you want to bring me some example of how Bush ACTIVELY defeated the renewal, I will be all ears. But until I see that kind of evidence I refuse to give him credit for the acts of 3 Republicans who put THEIR careers on the line.

.

You think Delay and Frist are just out there freelancing???

You think they fdon't have Bush's assurances of protection??

Evidence as Bush's control over the ENTIRE Repub party is the "new tone" business. NO ONE in the Repub Party is palying the Dems game of vitriolic rheteric.

Bush did that. Bush told Frist and Delay to kill the AWB.

Its how politics work.

So did McCain not get the memo?

Your orignal point was that there was no orchestration and that is why Bush shouldn't be blamed for guys like McCain.

If there was some "back room" deal then Bush will just have to enjoy the silent knowledge that he won't get credit for his "master plan."

Publically he was NOT one of the guys who put their careers on the line out in the open. The only "public" thing he did was give vocal support and encouragement in 2000. If he WANTS credit he needs to come out in the open like everyone else did.

May as well, his enemies tried to blame his "lack fo action" in any case so remaining silent sure didn't do anything for him. Reagan was a "put up" President and I expect no less from any other.

Posted: 9/12/2004 11:21:32 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
So did McCain not get the memo?

Your orignal point was that there was no orchestration and that is why Bush shouldn't be blamed for guys like McCain.

If there was some "back room" deal then Bush will just have to enjoy the silent knowledge that he won't get credit for his "master plan."

Publically he was NOT one of the guys who put their careers on the line out in the open. The only "public" thing he did was give vocal support and encouragement in 2000. If he WANTS credit he needs to come out in the open like everyone else did.

.

I edited my earlier post to address McCain.

The "back room " political deal is well known enuf (to the politically NON naieve) for me to give Bush credit.

Posted: 9/12/2004 11:24:03 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Quoted:
So did McCain not get the memo?

Your orignal point was that there was no orchestration and that is why Bush shouldn't be blamed for guys like McCain.

If there was some "back room" deal then Bush will just have to enjoy the silent knowledge that he won't get credit for his "master plan."

Publically he was NOT one of the guys who put their careers on the line out in the open. The only "public" thing he did was give vocal support and encouragement in 2000. If he WANTS credit he needs to come out in the open like everyone else did.

.

I edited my earlier post to address McCain.

The "back room " political deal is well known enuf (to the politically NON naieve) for me to give Bush credit.

Wonderful.

Then some kind of evidence should be fairly easy. I stand by to revise my opinion.

Posted: 9/12/2004 11:32:09 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Wonderful.

Then some kind of evidence should be fairly easy. I stand by to revise my opinion.

Bush is the head of the Repub Party.

THE BAN IS DEAD.

More concrete evidence have never existed of anything ever.

There's less evidence for the existence of oxygen.

Posted: 9/12/2004 11:52:44 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Wonderful.

Then some kind of evidence should be fairly easy. I stand by to revise my opinion.

Bush is the head of the Repub Party.

THE BAN IS DEAD.

More concrete evidence have never existed of anything ever.

There's less evidence for the existence of oxygen.

There is only evidence that Frist, Delay and Craig saved us.

Nobody knows what BUSH would have done had these men not kept the bill from getting to his desk.

Posted: 9/12/2004 11:58:19 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
There is only evidence that Frist, Delay and Craig saved us.

.

Only someone who DOESN'T WANT to beleive Bush orchestrated that would think Bush didn't orchestrate that.

Posted: 9/12/2004 12:05:11 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Dig Dug you are a lost cause. Bush had very little to do with what is happening tonight. In case you forgot ,this spring both Republics & Dems voted to extend it but due to the way it was tied to the Gunmakers Protection act it the whole package was voted down. I can only take any man including Bush on his word and he said he would sign it if it made it to his desk. I will vote for him this year simply due to the lesser of 2 evils factor but this guy is no hero to gun rights and if you can't see that you never will.

It's the same reason the NRA is supporting him because he is the lesser of 2 evils and nothing else.

Actually, as regards the incident cited by you above, the White House (A/K/A Bush) argued and pleaded with Congress to send a "Clean" bill, deviod of amendments to the President for signature. Even though Congress ignored him, the effort was made nevertheless.

Posted: 9/12/2004 12:27:21 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
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There is only evidence that Frist, Delay and Craig saved us.

.

Only someone who DOESN'T WANT to beleive Bush orchestrated that would think Bush didn't orchestrate that.

Only someone who WANTS to beleive Bush orchestrated that would think Bush did orchestrate that.

Isn't it funny how my statement is just as credible as yours?

But here is the nuts and bolts of this debate.

AFTER the election, no matter who wins, Bush will safely be able to take credit for PERSONALLY defeated the renewal.

IF he does I will be wrong and will from that day give Bush credit.

IF he does NOT then you will be wrong. I don't know if you will then hold him accountable or not.

At any time after the election please feel free to bring me evidence of Bush taking PERSONAL CREDIT for defeating the AWB renewal.

Posted: 9/12/2004 1:00:36 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
In my not-so-informed opinion

Fixed it for you.

Posted: 9/12/2004 1:01:08 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
The man is not a Pro-Gun Politician and never will be.

That would be what we call "a lie."

Posted: 9/12/2004 1:02:23 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Dig Dug you are a lost cause.

Yes, it's a lost cause that he or any others will drink your Kool Aid and buy into your line of thinking.

Posted: 9/12/2004 1:03:47 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Now if you want to bring me some example of how Bush ACTIVELY defeated the renewal, I will be all ears.

The only time it EVER came up for a vote in the Senate, he opposed it. What more proof do you need?

Posted: 9/12/2004 7:39:14 PM EDT

[#13]

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Quoted:
In my not-so-humble opinion

Fixed it for you (tried to be witty).

You didn't fix anything, shit-stirrer. You don't have the IQ to do anything but make wise-ass remarks to cover up your ignorance about everything.

Posted: 9/12/2004 7:41:02 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Now if you want to bring me some example of how Bush ACTIVELY defeated the renewal, I will be all ears.

The only time it EVER came up for a vote in the Senate, he opposed it. What more proof do you need?

Source me please.

Posted: 9/12/2004 7:43:37 PM EDT

[#15]

As long as he doesn't sign a new ban, I will keep quiet.

Posted: 9/12/2004 7:44:00 PM EDT

[#16]

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In my not-so-humble opinion, GWB didn't do much of anything, one way or the other. DeLay and Frist (Frist less so than DeLay) deserve the thanks. GWB simply played politics with it which is pretty much what I expected. I'm happy with the outcome, no matter who did or didn't do what. Of course, you all may continue with your divisive BS which seems to make so many here happy.

You just don’t get it… sometimes with a person in a particular position not doing much is EXACTLY what needs to be done.

What he did do WAS NOT the deciding factor, what he DID NOT do was.

Be obtuse if you wish but the reality of the situation is GWB’s action/inaction IS responsible for the AWB sunset. The Brady bunch know this to be the truth and so states.

Yep, you are right. GWB is the greatest President since Warren G. Harding !

Posted: 9/13/2004 4:04:26 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

You didn't fix anything, shit-stirrer. You don't have the IQ to do anything but make wise-ass remarks to cover up your ignorance about everything.

Uh-huh. At least I have the IQ to remember the COC, Billy Boy.

Posted: 9/13/2004 4:05:37 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Quoted:
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Now if you want to bring me some example of how Bush ACTIVELY defeated the renewal, I will be all ears.

The only time it EVER came up for a vote in the Senate, he opposed it. What more proof do you need?

Source me please.

When it was attached to the lawsuit prevention bill, remember? President Bush said he wanted a "clean bill," and opposed it being attached. I don't have a link handy, but you gotta remember it, it wasn't that long ago.

Posted: 9/13/2004 5:01:31 AM EDT

[#19]

Folks, think about it.....

If renewal of the AWB were REALLY that important to W, not only would he have pushed it, it would have GOTTEN it!

So, while I certainly would have preferred to see W out there swinging FOR us, I give him credit for being politically savvy enough to allow the thing to die and let others take the "credit" and the "criticism".

The other side is skewring W for the sunset. He cannot be responsible and simultaneously NOT responsible for the sunset (remember, he's not Kerry). So which is it?

Posted: 9/13/2004 5:05:24 AM EDT

[#20]

Hehe (stirs the pot) Bush & Kerry vs. the 2nd Amendment

"The interim constitution provided to Iraq by the Bush Administration contained declarations of "rights" to security, education, health care, and social security for the "liberated" nation, but no right to bear arms. In contrast, Saddam Hussein's Iraq allowed all sorts of firearms to be bought and sold openly without restriction. To be sure, Hussein was an awful, evil man, a tyrant and a thug. But Hussein was better on gun rights than George W. Bush. "

Dude, they're all traitors to the Constitution. It's all about utilitarianism, not about natural rights.

Posted: 9/13/2004 5:49:19 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
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Quoted:
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Now if you want to bring me some example of how Bush ACTIVELY defeated the renewal, I will be all ears.

The only time it EVER came up for a vote in the Senate, he opposed it. What more proof do you need?

Source me please.

When it was attached to the lawsuit prevention bill, remember? President Bush said he wanted a "clean bill," and opposed it being attached. I don't have a link handy, but you gotta remember it, it wasn't that long ago.

S.1805 when he asked cor a "clean bill" it could have meant damn near anything. I'll give you some leeway on this but he didn't specifically say no AW renewal, etc.

I'd just like to see some kind of documentation of his support for the sunset without renewal.

Posted: 9/13/2004 5:53:32 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Folks, think about it.....

If renewal of the AWB were REALLY that important to W, not only would he have pushed it, it would have GOTTEN it!

So, while I certainly would have preferred to see W out there swinging FOR us, I give him credit for being politically savvy enough to allow the thing to die and let others take the "credit" and the "criticism".

The other side is skewring W for the sunset. He cannot be responsible and simultaneously NOT responsible for the sunset (remember, he's not Kerry). So which is it?

It is my position and belief that he "supports" a renewal but was politically savy enough to leave it alone. I'd like to be wrong and find out he is more pro 2nd Amendment than I give him credit for but haven't seen that yet regarding the AW Ban.

And as such I don't want to give him the same "attaboy" that Craig, Frist and Delay are deserving of. But as for the big picture I will take a "leave it alone" President over a active anti gunner like Kerry anyday.

Posted: 9/13/2004 5:54:30 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
In my not-so-humble opinion, GWB didn't do much of anything, one way or the other. DeLay and Frist (Frist less so than DeLay) deserve the thanks. GWB simply played politics with it which is pretty much what I expected. I'm happy with the outcome, no matter who did or didn't do what. Of course, you all may continue with your divisive BS which seems to make so many here happy.

"Playing politics" is how the ban was allowed to sunset.

All of the geniuses out there who had so wanted to hear Bush stand up and loudly declare his opposition to the ban, are actually idiots.

Had Bush done this, the dems would have fought him.

"Politics" is how we achieved this victory.

Posted: 9/13/2004 5:59:30 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
ONCE AGAIN....

For the record BUSH did not save us.

Larry Craig, Tom Delay and Bill Frist are the politicians who put their careers on the line and protected our freedoms.

Bush said he would sign a bill to renew in 2000 and gave tacit approval and encouragement to politicians like Feinstein, Schumer, et al.

Please spare me your covert "master plan" theory as I simply don't buy it.

I will be voting for Bush in 2004, but it won't be because he saved me from the renewal.

Then you simply don't understand politics.
If he had made his opposition to the ban a big deal, the antis would have been able to marshal TONS of support from all the people who are against anything Bush is FOR, or for anything Bush is against.
As it was, the AWB was considered a "non-issue" by the anti-Bush democrats. This is DIRECTLY due to the passive stance Bush took.
You may choose to think that this was simply an accident, or luck...

...but that would be very naive.

Posted: 9/13/2004 6:17:59 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Quoted:
In my not-so-humble opinion, GWB didn't do much of anything, one way or the other. DeLay and Frist (Frist less so than DeLay) deserve the thanks. GWB simply played politics with it which is pretty much what I expected. I'm happy with the outcome, no matter who did or didn't do what. Of course, you all may continue with your divisive BS which seems to make so many here happy.

"Playing politics" is how the ban was allowed to sunset.

All of the geniuses out there who had so wanted to hear Bush stand up and loudly declare his opposition to the ban, are actually idiots.

Had Bush done this, the dems would have fought him.

"Politics" is how we achieved this victory.

Well I am sure thats what people in the RNC were THINKING, but in retrospect it was a mistake. He should of challenged them, since it turns out the anti-gunners support was largly a fiction created by the 4 news networks.

Posted: 9/13/2004 6:21:16 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Quoted:
ONCE AGAIN....

For the record BUSH did not save us.

Larry Craig, Tom Delay and Bill Frist are the politicians who put their careers on the line and protected our freedoms.

Bush said he would sign a bill to renew in 2000 and gave tacit approval and encouragement to politicians like Feinstein, Schumer, et al.

Please spare me your covert "master plan" theory as I simply don't buy it.

I will be voting for Bush in 2004, but it won't be because he saved me from the renewal.

Then you simply don't understand politics.
If he had made his opposition to the ban a big deal, the antis would have been able to marshal TONS of support from all the people who are against anything Bush is FOR, or for anything Bush is against.
As it was, the AWB was considered a "non-issue" by the anti-Bush democrats. This is DIRECTLY due to the passive stance Bush took.
You may choose to think that this was simply an accident, or luck...

...but that would be very naive.

You mean like what Kerry did exactly?

Take a look at the Brady Bunch website.

Posted: 9/13/2004 6:25:20 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
You mean like what Kerry did exactly?

Take a look at the Brady Bunch website.

Yer not ACTUALLY citing the Brady website as a credible source of anything, ARE YOU???

Posted: 9/13/2004 6:26:21 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
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Now if you want to bring me some example of how Bush ACTIVELY defeated the renewal, I will be all ears.

The only time it EVER came up for a vote in the Senate, he opposed it. What more proof do you need?

Source me please.

When it was attached to the lawsuit prevention bill, remember? President Bush said he wanted a "clean bill," and opposed it being attached. I don't have a link handy, but you gotta remember it, it wasn't that long ago.

S.1805 when he asked cor a "clean bill" it could have meant damn near anything. I'll give you some leeway on this but he didn't specifically say no AW renewal, etc.

I'd just like to see some kind of documentation of his support for the sunset without renewal.

Dude, you're asking for egg in your beer. When the Dems tried to attach the AWB renewal as a rider to the lawsuit prevention bill, Bush said he didn't want it there. You asked, I delivered and now you're just being stubborn.

Posted: 9/13/2004 6:26:43 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

When will libertarians ever vote libertarian? Has a libertarian ever voted for a libertarian candidate?

I have! I started becoming disillusioned after I stepped down as Chairman of our local party to go on and be the Fundraising Director for the LP Party of GA.

I didn't like what I saw behind the scenes and over the past 3 years I've become even more leery of them. I will not vote Libertarian just because the name has an "L" next to it. I will have to study all the candidates, which everyone should do anyway, and vote for who I think I agree with most, be they Republican, Democrat, Libertarian or any other.

Posted: 9/13/2004 6:45:24 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
ONCE AGAIN....

For the record BUSH did not save us.

Larry Craig, Tom Delay and Bill Frist are the politicians who put their careers on the line and protected our freedoms.

Bush said he would sign a bill to renew in 2000 and gave tacit approval and encouragement to politicians like Feinstein, Schumer, et al.

Please spare me your covert "master plan" theory as I simply don't buy it.

I will be voting for Bush in 2004, but it won't be because he saved me from the renewal.

Then you simply don't understand politics.
If he had made his opposition to the ban a big deal, the antis would have been able to marshal TONS of support from all the people who are against anything Bush is FOR, or for anything Bush is against.
As it was, the AWB was considered a "non-issue" by the anti-Bush democrats. This is DIRECTLY due to the passive stance Bush took.
You may choose to think that this was simply an accident, or luck...

...but that would be very naive.

You mean like what Kerry did exactly?

Take a look at the Brady Bunch website.

...and THAT is a blessing.
They can't help themselves.
They KNOW that it's not a winning issues, except with their base.
And they want to make those crowds cheer.

Posted: 9/13/2004 6:53:08 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
I'm not anti-GWB per se, but I will gladly admit

I WAS WRONG

Even a year ago, I would not have believed that the AWB was going to sunset without reauthorization. I really didn't think I was ever going to see a REDUCTION in federal gun control. I thought that some kind of deal would be struck, to get the bill through Congress, and GWB would have been trapped by his campaign promise and would have had to sign it.

I am very happy to have been wrong - and for the last month, I pretty much became a believer.

+1 on what the Prof says.

Posted: 9/13/2004 7:01:24 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Dude, you're asking for egg in your beer. When the Dems tried to attach the AWB renewal as a rider to the lawsuit prevention bill, Bush said he didn't want it there. You asked, I delivered and now you're just being stubborn.

Exactly.

1. The renewal bill DIDN't reach Bush's desk.

2. Legislation Bush DID want (lawsuit preemption) with an AWB rider got killed by the Repubs.

If Bush wanted AWB renewal, he had TWO chances for it. NEITHER happenned. PERIOD.

If that doesn't serve as proof Bush is calling the shots, asking Delay / Frist to take the heat, NOTHING will convince these people.

Posted: 9/13/2004 7:15:54 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Quoted:
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Now if you want to bring me some example of how Bush ACTIVELY defeated the renewal, I will be all ears.

The only time it EVER came up for a vote in the Senate, he opposed it. What more proof do you need?

Source me please.

When it was attached to the lawsuit prevention bill, remember? President Bush said he wanted a "clean bill," and opposed it being attached. I don't have a link handy, but you gotta remember it, it wasn't that long ago.

S.1805 when he asked cor a "clean bill" it could have meant damn near anything. I'll give you some leeway on this but he didn't specifically say no AW renewal, etc.

I'd just like to see some kind of documentation of his support for the sunset without renewal.

Dude, you're asking for egg in your beer. When the Dems tried to attach the AWB renewal as a rider to the lawsuit prevention bill, Bush said he didn't want it there. You asked, I delivered and now you're just being stubborn.

Oh C'mon. We both know he didn't specifically say NO AW renewal.

I'm not looking for theory, conjecture or inference.

Craig, Frist and Dealy SPECIFICALLY stood against the renewal. I asked for evidence of the same from Bush. I understand I may have to wait till AFTER the election to get a hard and fast stance from him and that is fine.

I'd just like something to contradict his "on record" support of the AW Ban in 2000 before I start slapping him on the back.

Posted: 9/13/2004 7:19:21 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Dude, you're asking for egg in your beer. When the Dems tried to attach the AWB renewal as a rider to the lawsuit prevention bill, Bush said he didn't want it there. You asked, I delivered and now you're just being stubborn.

Exactly.

1. The renewal bill DIDN't reach Bush's desk.

2. Legislation Bush DID want (lawsuit preemption) with an AWB rider got killed by the Repubs.

If Bush wanted AWB renewal, he had TWO chances for it. NEITHER happenned. PERIOD.

If that doesn't serve as proof Bush is calling the shots, asking Delay / Frist to take the heat, NOTHING will convince these people.

Again, Bush went "on the record" in 2000 for his support of the AW Ban.

All I want is the same kind of "on the record" support of it's sunset. If it has to wait till after the election that is fine.

But saying publically you are for something and then saying you are secretly plotting against it behind closed doors with no proof is not good enough for me. I'm not a Democrat.

Posted: 9/13/2004 7:24:42 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Again, Bush went "on the record" in 2000 for his support of the AW Ban.

All I want is the same kind of "on the record" support of it's sunset. If it has to wait till after the election that is fine.

.

You want empty rhetoric and promises by a politician. (like a politicians rhetoric and promises mean anything)

I want results.

You like Reagan who went "on the record" and sold out and banned Second Amendment arms.

I like Bush who suckered the antis with his rhetoric and DELIVERED RESULTS expanding freedoms of 2A arms.

We're just different people.

Posted: 9/13/2004 7:30:09 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Oh C'mon. We both know he didn't specifically say NO AW renewal.

I'm not looking for theory, conjecture or inference.

Craig, Frist and Dealy SPECIFICALLY stood against the renewal. I asked for evidence of the same from Bush. I understand I may have to wait till AFTER the election to get a hard and fast stance from him and that is fine.

I'd just like something to contradict his "on record" support of the AW Ban in 2000 before I start slapping him on the back.

You're asking for too much. Sorry, this is the real world. Presidential candidates can't be as clear as you want in your utopia.

Posted: 9/13/2004 7:33:23 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Oh C'mon. We both know he didn't specifically say NO AW renewal.

I'm not looking for theory, conjecture or inference.

Craig, Frist and Dealy SPECIFICALLY stood against the renewal. I asked for evidence of the same from Bush. I understand I may have to wait till AFTER the election to get a hard and fast stance from him and that is fine.

I'd just like something to contradict his "on record" support of the AW Ban in 2000 before I start slapping him on the back.

You're asking for too much. Sorry, this is the real world. Presidential candidates can't be as clear as you want in your utopia.

Why not? He was clear about his support of the AW Ban renewal?

Craig, Frist and Dealy were just as clear about their support of the end of the ban. You don't think any of them wants to be President some day?

Posted: 9/13/2004 7:35:12 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Quoted:

Again, Bush went "on the record" in 2000 for his support of the AW Ban.

All I want is the same kind of "on the record" support of it's sunset. If it has to wait till after the election that is fine.

.

You want empty rhetoric and promises by a politician. (like a politicians rhetoric and promises mean anything)

I want results.

You like Reagan who went "on the record" and sold out and banned Second Amendment arms.

I like Bush who suckered the antis with his rhetoric and DELIVERED RESULTS expanding freedoms of 2A arms.

We're just different people.

Sorry that is the kind of shit Clinton used to pull. I want more from MY President.

And again Reagan didn't sell anyone out, he acted in accordance with the will of the gun owners he REPRESENTED when he signed the FOPA.

Would you have preferred he didn't?

Posted: 9/13/2004 7:38:04 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Oh C'mon. We both know he didn't specifically say NO AW renewal.

I'm not looking for theory, conjecture or inference.

Craig, Frist and Dealy SPECIFICALLY stood against the renewal. I asked for evidence of the same from Bush. I understand I may have to wait till AFTER the election to get a hard and fast stance from him and that is fine.

I'd just like something to contradict his "on record" support of the AW Ban in 2000 before I start slapping him on the back.

You're asking for too much. Sorry, this is the real world. Presidential candidates can't be as clear as you want in your utopia.

Why not? He was clear about his support of the AW Ban renewal?

Given that well over 60% of the public support the ban, his position was politically very smart.

Posted: 9/13/2004 7:40:00 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
going to give it a rest now? It was obvious to me that some of you have no clue how politics are played and went on and on that GWB is in support of the AWB, blah, blah blah. And now I can say:

YOU WERE WRONG!

This is the thread to apologize to the rest of us for all the time you have wasted with your inability to understand modern politics.

And don't even think about saying that the AWB could still be renewed. It's done. Dead. Finished. Caput.

Let the groveling begin. I will take cash (or evil goodies) in lew of verbal apology.

No, we were not wrong, GWB always maintained he'd sign this Un-constitutional bill, JUST like he signed the Un-constitutional "campaign finance" bill......

If you wanna THANK someone, thank those individuals and groups who fought the original bill!!

THEN thank all of us who were teaching the anti's a lesson and gave the House, to the "Republican Revolution", in the next election.....

There's ONLY ONE reason the AWB is gone, and GWB, AIN'T it!!!

It's FEAR!!!!

They KNOW enough of us WILL "unelect" them.............

Posted: 9/13/2004 7:47:41 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
He was clear about his support of the AW Ban renewal.....

He said that he "would sign it, IF it ever reached his desk".

Craig, Frist and Dealy were just as clear about their support of the end of the ban. ...

...making it quite clear that they would NOT deliver a, AWB renewal to Bush's desk.

Okay.
So add these two clearly stated intents together, and what do you get?
A plan.

Posted: 9/13/2004 8:02:12 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Sorry that is the kind of shit Clinton used to pull. I want more from MY President.

I want a new Caddy and a house in Malibu.

back here in the real world, I'll work with what I got. My way gets FREEDOM.

Yer holding out for the Caddy and the ocean front property. Your way gets EMPTY RHETORIC. And sell outs of 2A firearms.

And again Reagan didn't sell anyone out, he acted in accordance with the will of the gun owners he REPRESENTED when he signed the FOPA.

So, when duck hunters piss away our rights to keep their Perazzis, you don;t consider that a sell out???

Would you have preferred he didn't?

I want MORE from MY president.

I expect him to deliver 2A reults. Bush has. Reagan sold us out.

Posted: 9/13/2004 8:05:29 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Oh C'mon. We both know he didn't specifically say NO AW renewal.

I'm not looking for theory, conjecture or inference.

Craig, Frist and Dealy SPECIFICALLY stood against the renewal. I asked for evidence of the same from Bush. I understand I may have to wait till AFTER the election to get a hard and fast stance from him and that is fine.

I'd just like something to contradict his "on record" support of the AW Ban in 2000 before I start slapping him on the back.

You're asking for too much. Sorry, this is the real world. Presidential candidates can't be as clear as you want in your utopia.

Why not? He was clear about his support of the AW Ban renewal?

Given that well over 60% of the public support the ban, his position was politically very smart.

Smarter than Craig, Delay or Frist I suppose. Course Clinton was pretty smart sometimes.

Posted: 9/13/2004 8:05:54 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
It is my position and belief that he "supports" a renewal but was politically savy enough to leave it alone. I'd like to be wrong and find out he is more pro 2nd Amendment than I give him credit for but haven't seen that yet regarding the AW Ban.

Tough call for now. He has all the earmarks of being as you say he is, but he's in a political climate where being actively against such a ban may hurt him more than passively supporting it.

We may never know, but I still think he deserves credit for the political savy..

But as for the big picture I will take a "leave it alone" President over a active anti gunner like Kerry anyday.

No doubt there....

Posted: 9/13/2004 8:07:06 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Quoted:
He was clear about his support of the AW Ban renewal.....
He said that he "would sign it, IF it ever reached his desk".

Craig, Frist and Dealy were just as clear about their support of the end of the ban. ...

...making it quite clear that they would NOT deliver a, AWB renewal to Bush's desk.

Okay.
So add these two clearly stated intents together, and what do you get?
A plan.

Since you guys are gonna just say the same thing over and over I'm just gonna copy/paste my earlier replies to the same...

But saying publically you are for something and then saying you are secretly plotting against it behind closed doors with no proof is not good enough for me. I'm not a Democrat.

Posted: 9/13/2004 8:09:31 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Sorry that is the kind of shit Clinton used to pull. I want more from MY President.

I want a new Caddy and a house in Malibu.

back here in the real world, I'll work with what I got. My way gets FREEDOM.

Yer holding out for the Caddy and the ocean front property. Your way gets EMPTY RHETORIC. And sell outs of 2A firearms.

And again Reagan didn't sell anyone out, he acted in accordance with the will of the gun owners he REPRESENTED when he signed the FOPA.

So, when duck hunters piss away our rights to keep their Perazzis, you don;t consider that a sell out???

Would you have preferred he didn't?

I want MORE from MY president. I expect him to deliver 2A reults. Bush has. Reagan sold us out.

Ok fine.

Reagan was a anti gun President too. I'll give it to ya.

But I still haven't seen evidence of Bush II specifically supporting the end of the ban. Again I understand it may have to wait till after the election.

So I'm gonna shelve this one till after Nov.

Posted: 9/13/2004 8:16:59 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Given that well over 60% of the public support the ban, his position was politically very smart.

Smarter than Craig, Delay or Frist I suppose. Course Clinton was pretty smart sometimes.

Craig, Frist and Delay only have to get the vote from ONE STATE, and most of those states are conservative enough that they don't have to worry about losing support by not renewing the AWB. A president has to get the majority in EVERY state, or at least try to. You simply aren't being realistic.

Posted: 9/13/2004 10:36:54 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
He was clear about his support of the AW Ban renewal.....
He said that he "would sign it, IF it ever reached his desk".

Craig, Frist and Dealy were just as clear about their support of the end of the ban. ...

...making it quite clear that they would NOT deliver a, AWB renewal to Bush's desk.

Okay.
So add these two clearly stated intents together, and what do you get?
A plan.

Since you guys are gonna just say the same thing over and over I'm just gonna copy/paste my earlier replies to the same...

But saying publically you are for something and then saying you are secretly plotting against it behind closed doors with no proof is not good enough for me. I'm not a Democrat.

Would you prefer that the Ban had been renewed?
Politics requires strategy and tactics.

But yes, I agree with you. I would prefer that President Bush had loudly proclaimed his opposition to the ban, and that the public and congress had then been so moved by his eloquent and spirited defense of the 2nd Amendment, that it was unanimous that the Ban be allowed to expire.

Unfortunately, we don't live in that Utopia.

Posted: 9/13/2004 10:40:51 AM EDT

[#49]

I'm happy to see that GWB was lying during his campaign, and did nothing.

Posted: 9/13/2004 10:45:24 AM EDT

[#50]

Well, now George Bush has my vote.

I still don't think he's perfect, and I would NOT have voted for him if he signed a new ban.

I am glad he's President with the war and all, and I shudder at the thought of how many Americans would be murdered by terrorists of Kerry wins.

I still maintain that anyone who would have voted for Bush if he extended the ban is a fool.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - So with the ensured expiration of the AWB are you GWB bashers... (Page 2 of 4)

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