The officers are lucky these guys were not trained operators.  They would have been a lot more casualties.  They spit out a lot of bullets but did not close with the targets nor did they work together. They learned their stuff most likely from movies and TV. They stood around and shot at targets that presented themselves.  The two guys that shot it out with the FBI would have massacred the LAPD.  They were trained and knew how to fight in a gun battle.

Buncha arm-chair commandoes here.  None of whom apparently have a clue on the terrain and what was really happening.

I voted biggest baddest rifle.  (But I agree the shoot the feet under the car makes a lot of sense.  Pro - he's restricted in his mobility.  Con - Now he can see you and your the only target in his current field of view Thank You.)

Lots of I can shoot moa with my AR.  Yeah at paper and not at a moving target that is shooting back at you or anything that moves in that range.  LAPD was out gunned, they had made the decision that anything beyond pistol or shotgun was inappropriate for std issue.  Spend a lot of time in a massively crowded urban area and you might agree.

Using the armored car, well yes they did use it.  for retrieving wounded.  Good Call, otherwise your chasing BGs on foot or back into buildings with more potential hostages.  Once you pick up wounded then go on offensive.  

If you weren't there with weapons close at hand you really can't second guess.  Middle of the day, most folks at work, ergo the local hunters and there may have been, couldn't just grab the big gun and walk out the front door.  

I wasn't there.  I got a buddy who was.  Had been at bike training, was in polo shirt and shorts and minimal duty belt.  Yeah he felt a LOT naked.

You need another option on your poll....
...CLEAN THE CRAP OUTTA MY DRAWERS

I guess you missed where I said "minute of bad guy"...all they needed were hits with centerfire rifle cartridges on any part of the BG's body.  Didn't need 1" groups, didn't even need groups at all, just needed penetration of the armor.

I can hit basketball size targets when they are rolling down a hill at 50yds.....I know, I do this very thing on the Sunday's after hunting.  Just for fun mainly, but it is a nice training aid.

With a scattergun I can hit tire size targets at 40yds and moving...

I'm sure there are more resources available to the LAPD...10%--800 officers unqualified to fire their primary duty weapon?  If this is true......[lol]

I'd get me one of them AK47s like the bank robbers had.

Apparantly, according to the movie, they are plentiful and easily obtained in Kalifornia. They shoot 1,000s of rounds without having to be reloaded. Are easily converted to full auto by any moron. They shoot grapefruit sized holes in anything and everything except ATMs. They can be accurately fired from the hip so specific shooting skills become unecessary. And if you add flash hiders, folding stocks or bayo lugs they become even more deadly.

Yeah, I need a AK like one of those.

Did you watch the movie?

They reloaded an amazing ammout of drums to each AK (gotta wonder how much ammo they supposedly carried according to the movie).

They didn't fire from the hip at all (surprisingly).

And their flashhiders, folding stocks and/or lugs caused zero casualites.

I am pretty curious about the shots thru concrete and everything, but yet the one cop sat behind a small tree or something, which blocked a few dozen bullets. Seems only the vault and that tree could stop the rifle rounds.

Note to self, plant lots of trees... become treehugger.

I was watching the thing live. Saw the AKs blow big divits out of the FRONT of concrete block walls but they by no means went through. Not even the HK 91's 7.62 AP ammo did that.

Based on your quality of posts Shivan I am only going to answer you one time and will ignore you from here on out.  You weren't there, you have probably never been anywhere near there.  If you think you could have got to 50 yds to play bouncing basketball you are sadly mistaken.  Like most of your posts on here you are full of fecal material.  And most of it is troll based fecal material.  

Basing anything on the show is like basing your knowledge of So. Cal. Law Enforcement on Beveerly Hills Cop.  If that's what you want to believe, far be it from me to disturb your dream world.  

This was a firefight in an area (SF Valley probably less than 150 square miles) that probably has more people living in it than most states, most of the posters on here haven't lived in a major urban area and don't have a clue on what it's like.

I used to live there, and Shivan is only slightly exaggerating. But that is the way, post-Rodney King that the LA Police Comission wanted their force to behave, so that is what they got.

Hey, I seem to remember that the cops were using an ARMORED CAR to drive around and pick up the wounded.

An [size=6]ARMORED CAR!![/size=6] Is that loud enough.  

You figure out the rest and my answer.  

Take my personally-owned, non-issued M4 from the trunk of my car and sent them both to MEET JESUS[frag]

If you ever find yourself trying to decide if you should use a money transfer truck to confront two bad guys with assault rifles consider this; few people outside the industry, including most Cops know that only 1 in 4 money transfer trucks are actually armored. It's a secret but not a well kept secret. You have a 75% chance of confronting them in an aluminum box on wheels. Do you like those odds? I don't. Anyone who has ever shot a motor vehicle with a 7.62X39mm or a 7.62X51mm NATO can guess how quickly an AK and an HK 91 firing automatic can riddle a motor vehicle. Your chances of surviving a confrontation like that are slim. Your  chances of maneuvering through a parking lot and getting close enough to even scare them are slim.
The L.A.P.D. was simply out gunned but fortunately not out numbered. They did the best they could with the tools that they had. Don't expect infantry tactics from Patrol Officers. Don't expect military leadership from Police Supervisors. What matters is they won. They didn't back down and they learned some hard lessons. The rest of us learned the easy way. We watched it while they fought it.

Actually I base my opinions of Southern California Law Enforcement on the firsthand accounts from my dad's oldest brother, currently a LT in the Orange County PD -- for I guess almost 20 years now.{Edited to add: Dad's family is from SoCal. Two sister's, and one brother's families all still live there and each of the other 3 siblings lived there for over 30 years each.  Grandfather's best friend was a judge in an LA County court, then moved on to the CA court of appeals.  Grandmother still lives in Yucaipa. Yeah, I know a bit about CA....}

I based what I know about the situation from the LIVE video footage of the incident, combined with the History Channel's recounting of it point by point.

I also live in the DC Metro area, so every single one of your asinine points is, well, asinine.

You can ignore everything you like....doesn't make you any more or less of an ass.

Carry on.

[wow]Very well said.....I hope they do learn from this...I hope they train better because of it.

The most amazing thing about the whole incident was that there were no cops or innocent civilians killed...just the two perps...sounds like a happy ending to me! [}:D]

No LEO Expert here but I'd take whatever weapon I had and climb on top of a building and shoot from there.

Haven't read all replies yet, but...

were their feet kevlar'd?

Do a 5th Element on 'em....kinda hard to walk on shredded stumps...

Well, let's see...

Whatever vests these guys had, and whatever they'd been smoking was enough to allow them to shrug off 70 direct 9mm hits... The 92FS is by no means an innacurate gun, but if they got hit that many times, a few more won't make a difference... As for head shots vs a moving target that's firing back at you with an AK, not likely...

Also, there's nothing in your average police crusier that will stop 7.62x39 FMJ, except MAYBE the engine block. However, if the block absorbs any fire, your chances of successfully impacting the target are greatly reduced, and you become a sitting duck... Plus, there's plenty of area not protected by the motor... Not much chance for surviving an attempt to ram (although you would draw alot of fire... A charging car is quite loud, obvious, and so on...).

I think fall back and call for backup would fit... Esp if there was a helicopter on hand to follow the BGs from outside the effective range of 2 drugged up wanna-be Rambos who had just watched 'AKs for Dummies, a reference for the rest of us' and deicded to rob a bank...

P.S. Considering the Hollywood depiction of the AK (i.e. it's a 'bad guy gun', easily susceptable to 'Stormtrooper Syndrome' (i.e. extreme inaccuracy)), if these guys really paid attention to their movies, they would have picked different guns... [;)]

Which shootout with the FBI? Details? Are there any good sites on modern day gun fights, etc?

O.K. This is the biggest load of crap I've seen on this subject yet. You're referring to Platt and Matix? The two guys who shot it out with 6+ FBI agents at close range? The two DEAD GUYS?
You think they would have fared any better against 50 to 60 Cops? Congratulations Sir! You have been promoted to Major General in the ar15.com Keyboard Commando Army.

Yeah, luckily all the LAPD guys actually maintained control of their guns; or were not boinking some chick in a restaurant.  Plus Matix and Platt had no armor.....those 70 shots they pulled from the two vests in N. Hollywood would have stopped Matix and Platt pretty fast.

I'm afraid I would have to say most of those on this board would be huddled under their cars just like LAPD.  Even seasoned combat veterans will seek cover when confronted by superior fire power.    

The superior range of the AKs was the factor and I would bet almost every cop there was trying for a head shot.  

Agreed a high power rifle say 400 meters off would have done the trick post quick but getting 400 meters away in the city would be a trick in it's self.  Otherwise, you would be just as vulnerable as the cops with 9mms.

Without an assault rifle, most of you would be under the car just like LAPD.  Second guessing people underfire without being there having been there yourself just isn't fair and never has been.  It sounds way to RAMBO to me.

Well, that little tidbit changes the scenario quite a bit.  

I could only assume that an "armored car" is indeed sufficiently armored and not some tin can on wheels.  

If that's the case, then no.  I wouldn't use it for anything.  

But, if truly armored, I don't think I would try to run them down unless I had a clear path in the open.  

I was thinking more along the lines of using the car as a mobile firing platform with nearly impenetrable defenses (at least with what they had for weapons).  

Oh well.