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Posted: 5/4/2013 4:19:00 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Dont try to skate around the law just pay the $5. tax stamp and buy one through a class III dealer as a short barrel rifle LEGALLY if this type set up appeals to you. Personally I think .223 looses too much energy with a short barrel. OP you may want to delete that photo before it becomes a problem. I can tell you have been here just long enough to pretend to know what your talking about. 
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Posted: 5/4/2013 4:22:16 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Actually, apparently ATF is okay with VFG now. Someone posted a case recently that ruled the VFG to be G2G. Maybe someone will post a link to it VFG is only ok on a firearm over 26" OAL. Then it is classified as a firearm and not and AOW that isn't a new ruling either. I'd hate to be the guy who is the test case for firing it from the shoulder. You can be arrested for firing it from the shoulder? How so? What would they charge you with? It's still an AR pistol, which is not designed to be fired from the shoulder. That's the key. Intention to violate the National Firearms Act? Constructive possession of an unregistered NFA firearm? Have a little imagination... Doubtful, IMO. Did you just make up that first charge? Never heard of it, and neither has Google. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 4:28:00 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You can be arrested for firing it from the shoulder? How so? What would they charge you with?Quoted: VFG is only ok on a firearm over 26" OAL. Then it is classified as a firearm and not and AOW that isn't a new ruling either. Actually, apparently ATF is okay with VFG now. Someone posted a case recently that ruled the VFG to be G2G. Maybe someone will post a link to it I'd hate to be the guy who is the test case for firing it from the shoulder. It's still an AR pistol, which is not designed to be fired from the shoulder. That's the key. Intention to violate the National Firearms Act? Constructive possession of an unregistered NFA firearm? Have a little imagination... So if you have a regular AR pistol and rest the bare buffer tube on your shoulder when you fire would that firearm be considered an SBR? How about if you were to try holding an unmodified 1911 to your shoulder? How does firing a weapon in a method that it wasn't designed to be fired alter that weapon's legal status? |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 4:28:04 PM EDT
[#4]
If people start posting pictures of them shouldering it then yes ATF will probably change their minds so don't do it act responsible and don't screw around with shouldering it, especially at the range..
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Posted: 5/4/2013 4:30:56 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: If people start posting pictures of them shouldering it then yes ATF will probably change their minds so don't do it act responsible and don't screw around with shouldering it, especially at the range.. Let them backpedal and continue tarnishing whatever modicum of credibility they have left. Fine by me  |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 4:32:42 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
If people start posting pictures of them shouldering it then yes ATF will probably change their minds so don't do it act responsible and don't screw around with shouldering it, especially at the range.. If you go to YouTube, your head will explode. Countless videos of people shouldering their AR pistols with just the buffer tube. If the simple act of shouldering an AR pistol is something that the ATF wanted to do away with, they would do something like make a max length restriction for buffer tubes, and force you to use something like the Gunsmoke buffer tube assembly with the modified bolt: 
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Posted: 5/4/2013 4:37:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: Quoted: If people start posting pictures of them shouldering it then yes ATF will probably change their minds so don't do it act responsible and don't screw around with shouldering it, especially at the range.. If you go to YouTube, your head will explode. Countless videos of people shouldering their AR pistols with just the buffer tube. If the simple act of shouldering an AR pistol is something that the ATF wanted to do away with, they would do something like make a max length restriction for buffer tubes, and force you to use something like the Gunsmoke buffer tube assembly with the modified bolt: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/lrc4x4/AR/black_pmag_2.jpg Exactly. If you can shoulder an AR pistol with the pistol tube, and if the ATF stays the forearm device still maintains the weapon as a pistol, whats is permitting someone from shouldering the weapon?
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Posted: 5/4/2013 4:43:35 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Dont try to skate around the law just pay the $5. tax stamp and buy one through a class III dealer as a short barrel rifle LEGALLY if this type set up appeals to you. Personally I think .223 looses too much energy with a short barrel. OP you may want to delete that photo before it becomes a problem. I can tell you have been here just long enough to pretend to know what your talking about. I roast. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 4:48:25 PM EDT
[#9]
i got the emails from sig when they released those. all i could think of is bad idea.
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Posted: 5/4/2013 4:50:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Anyone in Houston with an AR pistol that wants to try it out?
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Posted: 5/4/2013 4:51:27 PM EDT
[#11]
tagging
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Posted: 5/4/2013 5:03:34 PM EDT
[#12]
wow we need to just get rid of the NFA
even my non gun friends think the NFA is pretty stupid when I tried to explain it to them |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 5:23:40 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Dont try to skate around the law just pay the $5. tax stamp and buy one through a class III dealer as a short barrel rifle LEGALLY if this type set up appeals to you. Personally I think .223 looses too much energy with a short barrel. OP you may want to delete that photo before it becomes a problem. Says the guy in Iowa. Iowa says no NFA toys |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 5:27:02 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
$139 isn't that much less than a tax stamp. Just saying. yeah but a stock is ~$50 and it is filling that role. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 5:33:11 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
$139 isn't that much less than a tax stamp. Just saying. No sbr's in MI, only option for us is a pistol. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 5:51:25 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Anyone in Houston with an AR pistol that wants to try it out? Wait....You don't already have an AR pistol to try it out on? |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 5:58:27 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Fuck the ATF. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 6:03:43 PM EDT
[#18]
For sure getting one for my 8" 300BLK.
(No SBR in my state) Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 6:04:13 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Quoted: Anyone in Houston with an AR pistol that wants to try it out? Wait....You don't already have an AR pistol to try it out on? |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 6:56:49 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Actually, apparently ATF is okay with VFG now. Someone posted a case recently that ruled the VFG to be G2G. Maybe someone will post a link to it VFG is only ok on a firearm over 26" OAL. Then it is classified as a firearm and not and AOW that isn't a new ruling either. I'd hate to be the guy who is the test case for firing it from the shoulder. You can be arrested for firing it from the shoulder? How so? What would they charge you with? It's still an AR pistol, which is not designed to be fired from the shoulder. That's the key. That may be so, but if you find yourself in court with a political DA in a bad state... Well, I'd bet that you might as well fold that letter into a paper airplane and throw it at the judge, for all the money and time it will save you. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 7:56:53 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Actually, apparently ATF is okay with VFG now. Someone posted a case recently that ruled the VFG to be G2G. Maybe someone will post a link to it VFG is only ok on a firearm over 26" OAL. Then it is classified as a firearm and not and AOW that isn't a new ruling either. I'd hate to be the guy who is the test case for firing it from the shoulder. You can be arrested for firing it from the shoulder? How so? What would they charge you with? It's still an AR pistol, which is not designed to be fired from the shoulder. That's the key. That may be so, but if you find yourself in court with a political DA in a bad state... Well, I'd bet that you might as well fold that letter into a paper airplane and throw it at the judge, for all the money and time it will save you. What would you be charged with? |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 7:56:53 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
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Anyone in Houston with an AR pistol that wants to try it out? Wait....You don't already have an AR pistol to try it out on?
I have a 7.5" pistol. I will report back with findings in a few days... |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:00:00 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
$139 isn't that much less than a tax stamp. Just saying. yeah but a stock is ~$50 and it is filling that role. $33 stock kit: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/lower-parts/stock-kits/blackhawk-ar-15-stock-kit.html vs. $75 pistol buffer kit: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/pistol-buffer-kit.html If you're going to make a point using math, please use all of it. A pistol buffer tube alone is $30+ and it's not like nobody already has a stock sitting around. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:07:18 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
$139 isn't that much less than a tax stamp. Just saying. $ for an arbitary barrel length is bullshit. We're to the point now where a $139 to a pistol maker keeps you out of trouble if you don't want to spend the $200 on a form 4? Piss on it. If we all disobey, then what? |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:08:09 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: Quoted: That may be so, but if you find yourself in court with a political DA in a bad state... Well, I'd bet that you might as well fold that letter into a paper airplane and throw it at the judge, for all the money and time it will save you. What would you be charged with? Whatever the douche bags in question think might stick? Given the threats comings from 'on high' about executive action (re Gun Control), it does not seem outside the realm of possibility that a political decision to arrest and press charges directly contrary to the referenced letter may occur. I'm not going to name specific charges, though, as I'm not in the habit of getting too specific when I speculate about hypotheticals. One too many layers of bullshit, etc.
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:11:10 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
That may be so, but if you find yourself in court with a political DA in a bad state... Well, I'd bet that you might as well fold that letter into a paper airplane and throw it at the judge, for all the money and time it will save you. What would you be charged with? Whatever the douche bags in question think might stick? Given the threats comings from 'on high' about executive action (re Gun Control), it does not seem outside the realm of possibility that a political decision to arrest and press charges directly contrary to the referenced letter may occur. I'm not going to name specific charges, though, as I'm not in the habit of getting too specific when I speculate about hypotheticals. One too many layers of bullshit, etc. It was an honest question. I just don't personally know of what charge they could/would hit you with, for putting this thing to your shoulder. I'm just not seeing it. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:11:34 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Anyone in Houston with an AR pistol that wants to try it out? Wait....You don't already have an AR pistol to try it out on?
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:13:30 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Letters from the ATF are as good as toilet paper because sooner or later they will change their mind.
Toilet paper can be good, ATF not so good |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:14:03 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
How much are these? Read |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:17:39 PM EDT
[#30]
I hate the ATF, but that stock looks like prison rape to me.
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:23:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Actually, apparently ATF is okay with VFG now. Someone posted a case recently that ruled the VFG to be G2G. Maybe someone will post a link to it VFG is only ok on a firearm over 26" OAL. Then it is classified as a firearm and not and AOW that isn't a new ruling either. I'd hate to be the guy who is the test case for firing it from the shoulder. There would be no test case. There is no law that says you have to fire your pistol a certain way. The brace is not a stock to ATF because it is not intentionally designed as one. How you use it when you get it is none of their concern. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:31:57 PM EDT
[#32]
I'm guessing they purposely released that letter with the intention to later change the decision and make a bunch of arrests
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:32:14 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
$139 isn't that much less than a tax stamp. Just saying. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:32:59 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
HAHAHAHAHA SIG IS AWESOME! First a non-suppressor - now a non-buttstock. 
 http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/SIG_MPX-C-600x344.jpgyup. they are a fucking joke |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:33:57 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: In for ATF raid... - Clint No use in calling dibs, huh? Being that the ATF will take everything.  |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:35:18 PM EDT
[#36]
So if I can strap it to my arm, it's not a stock?
Yeah ok. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:35:30 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: I'm predicting this will be another Akins Accelerator debacle |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:38:47 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: The slidefire has been out for a long enough time I think they are not going to push on these if they let those...slide.I hate the ATF, but that stock looks like prison rape to me. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:40:40 PM EDT
[#39]
So in some threads we have people saying that they're going to openly "not comply" with actual laws, while in another thread we have people not buying things that their government has deemed legal because they're afraid that someone, somewhere, might decide to prosecute them for purchasing a legal product, just because...
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:42:23 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Seems pointless really. poor impatient mans SBR. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:42:45 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
So if I can strap it to my arm, it's not a stock?
Yeah ok. Yep. No one will ever use these butt stocks as an arm strap. Not one person, ever. Every single one will be used as an unregistered short barrel rifle butt stock, just like in the picture from earlier in the thread. These will sell for awhile. Someone will get arrested, and may or may not get their asshole enlarged. Then, in the end, they will be banned and everyone who bought one will be out $139. Some will still try to use it, and there will be more enlarged assholes and confiscated gun collections. I know it's not fair, but that is how this will all play out. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:43:30 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: So in some threads we have people saying that they're going to openly "not comply" with actual laws, while in another thread we have people not buying things that their government has deemed legal because they're afraid that someone, somewhere, might decide to prosecute them for purchasing a legal product, just because... Brave New World. I guess I should hot glue some velcro to a magpul stock and make it a forearm stabilizer. In the end, we all know how it's going to end. Surplus 7.62x39mm with mild steel getting banned - Draco Guns. Akins Accelerator for full auto. Etc. Etc. We've done this dance before. I'm waiting for slide fire or any bump firing device. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:44:00 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Letters from the ATF are as good as toilet paper because sooner or later they will change their mind.
What if you already bought it, would it be grandfathered in? I'm considering buying the stock now and building the pistol later. Go ask everyone who bought an Akins Accelerator...... |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:44:20 PM EDT
[#44]
In before the ATF changes their mind.
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:44:42 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The slidefire has been out for a long enough time I think they are not going to push on these if they let those...slide.
I hate the ATF, but that stock looks like prison rape to me. 
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:47:38 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Quoted:
So if I can strap it to my arm, it's not a stock?
Yeah ok. Yep. No one will ever use these butt stocks as an arm strap. Not one person, ever. Every single one will be used as an unregistered short barrel rifle butt stock, just like in the picture from earlier in the thread. These will sell for awhile. Someone will get arrested, and may or may not get their asshole enlarged. Then, in the end, they will be banned and everyone who bought one will be out $139. Some will still try to use it, and there will be more enlarged assholes and confiscated gun collections. I know it's not fair, but that is how this will all play out. You seem pretty confident in your theory. If someone is going to get arrested before these are (supposedly) banned, then what are they going to be charged with? |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:49:19 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So if I can strap it to my arm, it's not a stock?
Yeah ok. Yep. No one will ever use these butt stocks as an arm strap. Not one person, ever. Every single one will be used as an unregistered short barrel rifle butt stock, just like in the picture from earlier in the thread. These will sell for awhile. Someone will get arrested, and may or may not get their asshole enlarged. Then, in the end, they will be banned and everyone who bought one will be out $139. Some will still try to use it, and there will be more enlarged assholes and confiscated gun collections. I know it's not fair, but that is how this will all play out. You seem pretty confident in your theory. If someone is going to get arrested before these are (supposedly) banned, then what are they going to be charged with? Shooting their pistol wrong. Duh! |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:49:23 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Quoted:
So if I can strap it to my arm, it's not a stock?
Yeah ok. Yep. No one will ever use these butt stocks as an arm strap. Not one person, ever. Every single one will be used as an unregistered short barrel rifle butt stock, just like in the picture from earlier in the thread. These will sell for awhile. Someone will get arrested, and may or may not get their asshole enlarged. Then, in the end, they will be banned and everyone who bought one will be out $139. Some will still try to use it, and there will be more enlarged assholes and confiscated gun collections. I know it's not fair, but that is how this will all play out. Unfortunately, that would not surprise me at all.
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:49:49 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So if I can strap it to my arm, it's not a stock?
Yeah ok. Yep. No one will ever use these butt stocks as an arm strap. Not one person, ever. Every single one will be used as an unregistered short barrel rifle butt stock, just like in the picture from earlier in the thread. These will sell for awhile. Someone will get arrested, and may or may not get their asshole enlarged. Then, in the end, they will be banned and everyone who bought one will be out $139. Some will still try to use it, and there will be more enlarged assholes and confiscated gun collections. I know it's not fair, but that is how this will all play out. You seem pretty confident in your theory. If someone is going to get arrested before these are (supposedly) banned, then what are they going to be charged with? Are you going to use this as a butt stock for an unregistered short barreled rifle or do you plan to stap it to your arm consistent with it's "intended" use? Just curious. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:52:16 PM EDT
[#50]
I love how scared everyone is of their government.
Paranoid about a picture of a man shouldering a "pistol". Yet none have the testicular fortitude to do something about it. |
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