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Posted: 12/22/2015 2:52:44 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The M&P is over 15 years old. Glock gen 4 is what, 5-6 years old? How much longer until Glock comes out with a new Glock for "perfection"?  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Another reason to buy a Glock There are more aftermarket "improvement" parts for a Glock than M&P And the Glock has been on the market....what...several decades longer than the M&P? The M&P is over 15 years old. Glock gen 4 is what, 5-6 years old? How much longer until Glock comes out with a new Glock for "perfection"? |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 2:53:15 PM EDT
[#2]
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M&P 10 is ugly as sin. Carbine gas system and looks like 2ft of pencil barrel sticking out. Reminds me of those fat bitches you see that have a huge gut and really thin legs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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eh... my BIL got an M&P 10 and it couldn't have been a bigger piece of shit.. the only reason it works is b/c he changed out EVERYTHING except the receivers.. oh well.. looks like i won't have to worry about trying out any M&P products soon... fuck em... M&P 10? yeah, smith and wesson AR 10.. they call it an M&P 10 M&P 10 is ugly as sin. Carbine gas system and looks like 2ft of pencil barrel sticking out. Reminds me of those fat bitches you see that have a huge gut and really thin legs. oh yeah it's a [piece of shit,the only reason it works now is b/c he changed fucking everything on it |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 2:53:47 PM EDT
[#3]
Funny how the nature of this story changed so drastically in less than 2 pages.
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Posted: 12/22/2015 2:54:57 PM EDT
[#4]
Ok, I changed the OP and I think I'm understanding this now. It looks like Smith and Wesson have good reason to issue this cease and desist for that particular gun, and are not asking them to stop modifying customers guns. Have I got all this right?
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Posted: 12/22/2015 2:55:03 PM EDT
[#5]
Those performance center shields probably aren't selling as well as they hoped.
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Posted: 12/22/2015 2:55:06 PM EDT
[#6]
S&W is an Arfcom site sponser, why not ask them about this in their forum here and see what happens???
http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_2/551_Smith_andamp__Wesson.html |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 2:55:36 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so should they sue boresight solutions? salient arms? ATI? zev? (or it think zev only does glocks) again, unless there's a clause when buying an m&p that says you cannot resell this after purchase, i think the cease and desist letter is bullshit.. also lol @ S&W geting blasted on their instagram page Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The plot thickens..... S&W "M&P Dream Gun" offered with altered parts and still exhibiting the S&W and M&P trade marks... https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1934597_10204099808133979_4312216293917758907_n.jpg?oh=d6fb300a561bdee6dc4e2dfec65490de&oe=570D8406 They are selling a new pistol that they alter as a smith....... This actually probably is a direct violation of US trademark/patent law and Smith isn't really saying much about personally owned weapons modified after it seems. Or maybe this is only part of their grievance. So you can modify and resell to your heart's content, but you can't leave the logo intact? I could see if the slide was aftermarket and they added the logo... 
So if a aftermarket performance car places buys a mustang and modifies it, they also need to pull off the hood ornament? If they're trying to sell it as new without factory authorization, yes. Perfect examples would be Ruf, Alpina, Brabus... Exactly. If this is actually the intent of the letter, I have zero problem with S&W protecting their brand/IP. so should they sue boresight solutions? salient arms? ATI? zev? (or it think zev only does glocks) again, unless there's a clause when buying an m&p that says you cannot resell this after purchase, i think the cease and desist letter is bullshit.. also lol @ S&W geting blasted on their instagram page I believe the distinction is if it is being sold as a new gun, with S&W authorized modifications/parts, and represented as such. If it was bought and then modified and clearly stated that it is not an official product of S&W, and as such they will not warranty it, it would be one thing. It's an entirely different thing when the original logos are used in a way that constitutes advertising. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 2:56:20 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so should they sue boresight solutions? salient arms? ATI? zev? (or it think zev only does glocks) again, unless there's a clause when buying an m&p that says you cannot resell this after purchase, i think the cease and desist letter is bullshit.. also lol @ S&W geting blasted on their instagram page Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The plot thickens..... S&W "M&P Dream Gun" offered with altered parts and still exhibiting the S&W and M&P trade marks... https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1934597_10204099808133979_4312216293917758907_n.jpg?oh=d6fb300a561bdee6dc4e2dfec65490de&oe=570D8406 They are selling a new pistol that they alter as a smith....... This actually probably is a direct violation of US trademark/patent law and Smith isn't really saying much about personally owned weapons modified after it seems. Or maybe this is only part of their grievance. So you can modify and resell to your heart's content, but you can't leave the logo intact? I could see if the slide was aftermarket and they added the logo...
So if a aftermarket performance car places buys a mustang and modifies it, they also need to pull off the hood ornament? If they're trying to sell it as new without factory authorization, yes. Perfect examples would be Ruf, Alpina, Brabus... Exactly. If this is actually the intent of the letter, I have zero problem with S&W protecting their brand/IP. so should they sue boresight solutions? salient arms? ATI? zev? (or it think zev only does glocks) again, unless there's a clause when buying an m&p that says you cannot resell this after purchase, i think the cease and desist letter is bullshit.. also lol @ S&W geting blasted on their instagram page why would they? None of them are branding a new gun as a M&P. Hell, ZEV even completely renamed their frames to avoid such issues. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 2:56:39 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Funny how the nature of this story changed so drastically in less than 2 pages. The nice thing about ARFCOM is that I probably wouldn't have been able to find out this info on my own. People here are way better internet detectives than I am. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 2:57:44 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok, I changed the OP and I think I'm understanding this now. It looks like Smith and Wesson have good reason to issue this cease and desist for that particular gun, and are not asking them to stop modifying customers guns. Have I got all this right? this appears to be the case here. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 2:58:24 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
why would they? None of them are branding a new gun as a M&P. Hell, ZEV even completely renamed their frames to avoid such issues. Exactly. There's a "proper" way to do this sort of thing. Only mention of GLOCK is talking about the magazines. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 2:58:40 PM EDT
[#12]
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That will not go as planned for S&W Nope. Stupid. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 2:59:29 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok, I changed the OP and I think I'm understanding this now. It looks like Smith and Wesson have good reason to issue this cease and desist for that particular gun, and are not asking them to stop modifying customers guns. Have I got all this right? From what I've read so far, the above seems correct. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 2:59:40 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are more aftermarket "improvement" parts for a Glock than M&P
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Another reason to buy a Glock There are more aftermarket "improvement" parts for a Glock than M&P
Hell you can build a complete glock without a single glock part. Or at least you could when CCF raceframes was round. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:00:15 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think I'm going to wait until this proves to be real until I break out the torch and pitchfork. A move like this from S&W makes zero sense... and they have been making pretty good decisions the last few years. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:00:21 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nope. Stupid. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That will not go as planned for S&W Nope. Stupid. wrong, Smith is in the right here and I don't blame them. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:01:11 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hell you can build a complete glock without a single glock part. Or at least you could when CCF raceframes was round. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Another reason to buy a Glock There are more aftermarket "improvement" parts for a Glock than M&P
Hell you can build a complete glock without a single glock part. Or at least you could when CCF raceframes was round. You still can. But if you do, and call them Glocks and GLOCK is stamped on the side, the shovelmaker's lawyers are gonna want to chat with you. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:01:14 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nope. Stupid. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That will not go as planned for S&W Nope. Stupid. Keep reading. 
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:01:46 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so should they sue boresight solutions? salient arms? ATI? zev? (or it think zev only does glocks) again, unless there's a clause when buying an m&p that says you cannot resell this after purchase, i think the cease and desist letter is bullshit.. also lol @ S&W geting blasted on their instagram page Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The plot thickens..... S&W "M&P Dream Gun" offered with altered parts and still exhibiting the S&W and M&P trade marks... https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1934597_10204099808133979_4312216293917758907_n.jpg?oh=d6fb300a561bdee6dc4e2dfec65490de&oe=570D8406 They are selling a new pistol that they alter as a smith....... This actually probably is a direct violation of US trademark/patent law and Smith isn't really saying much about personally owned weapons modified after it seems. Or maybe this is only part of their grievance. So you can modify and resell to your heart's content, but you can't leave the logo intact? I could see if the slide was aftermarket and they added the logo...
So if a aftermarket performance car places buys a mustang and modifies it, they also need to pull off the hood ornament? If they're trying to sell it as new without factory authorization, yes. Perfect examples would be Ruf, Alpina, Brabus... Exactly. If this is actually the intent of the letter, I have zero problem with S&W protecting their brand/IP. so should they sue boresight solutions? salient arms? ATI? zev? (or it think zev only does glocks) again, unless there's a clause when buying an m&p that says you cannot resell this after purchase, i think the cease and desist letter is bullshit.. also lol @ S&W geting blasted on their instagram page If the winner had to purchase the M&P stock then got the work done for free by the named parties it would be same as boresight/salient |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:01:53 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
wrong, Smith is in the right here and I don't blame them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That will not go as planned for S&W Nope. Stupid. wrong, Smith is in the right here and I don't blame them. It actually looks like SSVI and Blown Deadline are being dishonest in their instagram posts. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:02:39 PM EDT
[#21]
Stop making shitty handguns that people don't need to fix right out of the box. Problem solved.
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:04:06 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Smith & Wesson is one of the few companies that has seen a lot of growth and profits, and that's because of the M&P line. Why would they do this? This is retarded. Indeed . . . 
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:05:57 PM EDT
[#23]
Maybe someone needs to enlighten the masses on SSVI's facebook...?
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:06:00 PM EDT
[#24]
I guess I should be used to it by now.... |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:07:12 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is not an end user modification. But reading is hard, those companies buy guns, modify them. Then sell them. Quote HistoryQuoted: That is not an end user modification. But reading is hard, those companies buy guns, modify them. Then sell them. I work in marketing and think this is the key fact. If these companies are modding brand new guns, then passing them off as still new or at least OEM backed, that would be a problem. The custom shop's use of the phrase 'M&P Dream Gun' implies it is factory made or authorized. Possible situation: If the end user has a broken slide or gets harmed by these mods, the first thing their insurance company or lawyer is going to do is look to see who is the manufacturer of record is - aka the name on the side, then try to tap into that manufacturer's insurance company. Also, many companies try to prevent unauthorized uses of their logo. A trademark must be defended to be protected. I don't see how Smith is the bad guy. Let's get more facts. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:09:05 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I work in marketing and think this is the key fact. If these companies are modding brand new guns, then passing them off as still new or at least OEM backed, that would be a problem. Possible situation: If the end user has a broken slide or gets harmed by these mods, the first thing their insurance company or lawyer is going to do is look to see who is the manufacturer of record is - aka the name on the side, then try to tap into that manufacturer's insurance company. Also, many companies try to prevent unauthorized uses of their logo. A trademark must be defended to be protected. I don't see how Smith is the bad guy. Let's get more facts. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That is not an end user modification. But reading is hard, those companies buy guns, modify them. Then sell them. I work in marketing and think this is the key fact. If these companies are modding brand new guns, then passing them off as still new or at least OEM backed, that would be a problem. Possible situation: If the end user has a broken slide or gets harmed by these mods, the first thing their insurance company or lawyer is going to do is look to see who is the manufacturer of record is - aka the name on the side, then try to tap into that manufacturer's insurance company. Also, many companies try to prevent unauthorized uses of their logo. A trademark must be defended to be protected. I don't see how Smith is the bad guy. Let's get more facts. Read the my edits to the OP. We're ahead of you. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:11:24 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You still can. But if you do, and call them Glocks and GLOCK is stamped on the side, the shovelmaker's lawyers are gonna want to chat with you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Another reason to buy a Glock There are more aftermarket "improvement" parts for a Glock than M&P
Hell you can build a complete glock without a single glock part. Or at least you could when CCF raceframes was round. You still can. But if you do, and call them Glocks and GLOCK is stamped on the side, the shovelmaker's lawyers are gonna want to chat with you. Right. Not disagreeing with S&W. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:11:44 PM EDT
[#28]
I see why S&W would have sent the letter, based solely on what the letter says. I also think both of these parties will have interesting arguments based on the detailed facts in this case. It should get settled without litigation if everyone is smart.
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:12:17 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I work in marketing and think this is the key fact. If these companies are modding brand new guns, then passing them off as still new or at least OEM backed, that would be a problem. The custom shop's use of the phrase 'M&P Dream Gun' implies it is factory made or authorized. Possible situation: If the end user has a broken slide or gets harmed by these mods, the first thing their insurance company or lawyer is going to do is look to see who is the manufacturer of record is - aka the name on the side, then try to tap into that manufacturer's insurance company. Also, many companies try to prevent unauthorized uses of their logo. A trademark must be defended to be protected. I don't see how Smith is the bad guy. Let's get more facts. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That is not an end user modification. But reading is hard, those companies buy guns, modify them. Then sell them. I work in marketing and think this is the key fact. If these companies are modding brand new guns, then passing them off as still new or at least OEM backed, that would be a problem. The custom shop's use of the phrase 'M&P Dream Gun' implies it is factory made or authorized. Possible situation: If the end user has a broken slide or gets harmed by these mods, the first thing their insurance company or lawyer is going to do is look to see who is the manufacturer of record is - aka the name on the side, then try to tap into that manufacturer's insurance company. Also, many companies try to prevent unauthorized uses of their logo. A trademark must be defended to be protected. I don't see how Smith is the bad guy. Let's get more facts. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:17:00 PM EDT
[#30]
I will be in the EE, waiting for the fire sale on all these M&P's all you purse swinging handwringers are getting ready to sell.
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:17:37 PM EDT
[#31]
salient markets all their guns using the companies original name, 'salient benelli' 'salient glock' 'salient m&p'....
i don't feel like apex/brownells/ssvi is trying to get one over on consumers... |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:20:18 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like S&W wants a piece of the aftermarket pie - they're probably trying to coerce a licensing deal. This. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:20:24 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
salient markets all their guns using the companies original name, 'salient benelli' 'salient glock' 'salient m&p'.... i don't feel like apex/brownells/ssvi is trying to get one over on consumers... Yup... This is odd |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:20:59 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So if I follow S&W's line of thinking, I cannot buy a car and modify it to increase horsepower. Or buy a pickup and increase ground clearance. And technically, taking the shitty OEM tires off and being better rubber would be forbidden too. The soooo much retard in this lawsuit There is some talk about just that. Trying to use the DRMC because of code in car computers and even tractors. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:21:56 PM EDT
[#35]
A chevy is still a chevy till you change the frame, then it' something else.
Edit: More importantly, what does the ATF say the pistol is when you fill out those stupid yellow forms? |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:22:27 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It actually looks like SSVI and Blown Deadline are being dishonest in their instagram posts. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That will not go as planned for S&W Nope. Stupid. wrong, Smith is in the right here and I don't blame them. It actually looks like SSVI and Blown Deadline are being dishonest in their instagram posts. Who would have thought, with such a classy "response" on his instagram post |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:22:32 PM EDT
[#37]
Link to whole letter???
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:22:34 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
salient markets all their guns using the companies original name, 'salient benelli' 'salient glock' 'salient m&p'.... i don't feel like apex/brownells/ssvi is trying to get one over on consumers... I don't think they are either. I don't think they intended for people to think their collaboration dream gun was a factory Smith. However, the posts on Instagram by SSVI and Blown Deadline sure do seem to be intentionally misleading about the nature of the letter from Smith. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:25:06 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Smith & Wesson is one of the few companies that has seen a lot of growth and profits, and that's because of the M&P line. Why would they do this? This is retarded. Did you actually read it? Most if not all of what they claim is legit. And if you don't actively protect your trademarks, you can lose their protection. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:25:09 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who would have thought, with such a classy "response" on his instagram post Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That will not go as planned for S&W Nope. Stupid. wrong, Smith is in the right here and I don't blame them. It actually looks like SSVI and Blown Deadline are being dishonest in their instagram posts. Who would have thought, with such a classy "response" on his instagram post They both seem like a couple of douche bags. This isn't the first time blowndeadline has made a huge drama fest on Instagram over his "haters" |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:25:11 PM EDT
[#41]
Never heard of half these people. Looks like a bunch of Facespace inkies who paint guns for a living.
I think I'll wait to fire up the Outrage Engine until more info leaks out. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:27:13 PM EDT
[#42]
The only reason the M&P is even shootable is the availability of aftermarket trigger parts.
S&W can go fuck themselves. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:29:00 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well time to sell the M&P and get a CZ carry gun. Fuck S&W right in the butthole for being bitches. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:29:51 PM EDT
[#44]
Here's an FYI for people who don't understand what you have to do to protect trademarks:
http://www.inta.org/TrademarkBasics/FactSheets/Pages/LossofTrademarkRightsFactSheet.aspx Rights in a trademark can be lost through the action or inaction of the trademark’s owner. The most common way to lose rights in a mark is to stop using the mark with no intention to use it again. This is called “abandonment.” However, trademark rights can also be lost unintentionally. For example, in some countries, it is possible to lose rights in a mark by allowing third parties to use the mark without controlling how it is used. This can include failing to control the nature and quality of the goods and/or services offered under the mark by the third party. Such failure to control often is referred to as “naked licensing.” Rights may also be lost if the trademark owner or third parties use the mark improperly, so that it ceases to indicate the source of goods or services and becomes a generic term. For example, escalator and cellophane originally were trademarks in the United States but, as a result of improper use, eventually they became generic names of the products for which they had been used as brands. The determination of whether a mark has become generic can vary from country to country; such is the case with aspirin, which is a generic term in the United States but a protectable trademark in Canada and Germany. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:29:57 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only reason the M&P is even shootable is the availability of aftermarket trigger parts. S&W can go fuck themselves. lol This isn't about the trigger part kits. readingisforfaggots.jpg |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:30:32 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That will not go as planned for S&W FSW |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:31:50 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who would have thought, with such a classy "response" on his instagram post Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That will not go as planned for S&W Nope. Stupid. wrong, Smith is in the right here and I don't blame them. It actually looks like SSVI and Blown Deadline are being dishonest in their instagram posts. Who would have thought, with such a classy "response" on his instagram post |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:33:20 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
[speculation] Didn't S&W just recently introduce the Performance Center Shield, which is supposed to have a better trigger? Maybe they want to sell the enhanced M&P triggers separately and get some of that $$$ Apex is making? [/speculation] From the getgo S&W's performance center had new fire control components that they were installing into guns for their pro shooters. Getting regular production guns made with those sears was like pulling teeth. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:34:24 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That will not go as planned for S&W This is not the first time S&W went full tard. Also, I would have bought 2-3 S&W revolvers by now if not for that stupid fucking lock hole on the left side. 
This turns out to be true they can eat a bag of Wookie dicks. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:35:52 PM EDT
[#50]
I now have no idea whats going on
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