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Posted: 6/14/2009 3:21:17 PM EDT
[#1]
Lots of people in here who dont seem to know wtf a Sikh is.
edit* i dont see any problem in letting them join up and keep a tidy beard. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 3:21:45 PM EDT
[#2]
fuck it.
They also have weight control standards yet somehow there's a bunch of fatbodies wandering all around the Army, a few in the Marines, and a shit ton in the AF and Navy. I think it's more important that they actually enforce weight control standards over a fuckin' beard. I don't think he should keep it, but there are more important issues. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 3:23:48 PM EDT
[#3]
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Fuck em. Fit the standard or don't join. this Next we'll have Marpat Burkhas. You joined the Army, the Army didn't join you. Conform or GTF out. yup |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 3:24:39 PM EDT
[#4]
While it is great they want to join the military, there is a reason uniform grooming and dress standards exist. They can be modified for legitimate, functional purposes, but an individual's religion is neither a legitimate nor a functional reason. The military exists to do a job, and that job should in no way make concessions or consideration for an individual's personal beliefs––whether those beliefs concern their religion, whether they think they look ugly in brown, or whether they think it's their right to share their sex life while on the job. Unless a soldier's opinion is requested, warranted, topical, and useful, it shouldn't be welcome.
FWIW, I am not and have never been a member of the military, and I claim not expertise on the matter so feel free to flame away if you disagree. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 3:24:48 PM EDT
[#5]
dident read replys but sadly with obama it might happen...
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Posted: 6/14/2009 3:25:59 PM EDT
[#6]
Don't want to fit in? fine... you don't get to fit in.
Service is a privilege, not a right. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 3:26:16 PM EDT
[#7]
My religion requires I have long hair, handlebar mustache, and wear a metal helm with a face shield that looks like a human skull. There isn't going to be a problem with me joining the Reserves is there?
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Posted: 6/14/2009 3:27:05 PM EDT
[#8]
Im going to tell my Sergeant that pushups are against my religion.
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Posted: 6/14/2009 3:36:35 PM EDT
[#9]
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http://i42.tinypic.com/kw4tt.jpg http://i14.tinypic.com/42iui5j.jpg http://i41.tinypic.com/beintx.jpg What is wrong with facial hair in the military? Cause I heard these guys were supposedly pretty good. 
Never heard of chemical or biological weapons, huh? |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 3:38:04 PM EDT
[#10]
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I guess it depends on what unit your in as there doesn't seem to be a problem with these guys having beards and waring turbans http://www.historycommons.org/events-images/b103_special_forces_supporting_dostum_2050081722-7087.jpg You can bet your ass some Motard has TRIED to chew their asses for those beards when stateside. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 3:40:47 PM EDT
[#11]
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http://i42.tinypic.com/kw4tt.jpg http://i14.tinypic.com/42iui5j.jpg http://i41.tinypic.com/beintx.jpg What is wrong with facial hair in the military? Cause I heard these guys were supposedly pretty good.
Never heard of chemical or biological weapons, huh? FWIW, I've managed a good seal on more than one mask fitment test with a beard. Besides, the NBC threat is pretty theater-specific and can be forecast fairly effectively. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 3:42:42 PM EDT
[#12]
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Po-lice that moo-stash! Where is your hemlit?!! |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 3:43:48 PM EDT
[#13]
I remember a Sikh in the 11th S.F.G. (A) back in the 80's .He wore a green turban at the Aberdeen Proving Grounds.
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Posted: 6/14/2009 3:49:51 PM EDT
[#14]
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Stick there ass in the gas chamber with a mask and there beard. And tell them, we will do this till it no longer effects you or you cut your damn hair Bet a sihk (without a mask) will last longer in there than you (with a mask)... Spoken like a man that hasn't ever been in a gas chamber, or tried to get a mask to seal. Ifn yous says so, ifn yous says so, old man... Big man behind the internet, I take Painless for the win. You should practice your username 
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Posted: 6/14/2009 3:50:52 PM EDT
[#15]
Sikhs are not Hindus but they are the blood enemies of the Muslims. Putting them in the battle field against muslims will make the baby Obama cry. It will undue all the "hearts and minds" we've worked so hard to accomplish. So THERE!
Where Vito113 when you need him? He can give a history of the Sikhs (im sure) in the british army. Tehy served all the way till 1948. Dont know how the british dealt with the NBC problem. in the pics i've seen they wear the full sikh regalia. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 3:55:07 PM EDT
[#16]
So will they be issued tactical head diapers?
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 3:58:52 PM EDT
[#17]
My religion requires me to have a blue mohawk.
I want to join. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:00:29 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: http://i42.tinypic.com/kw4tt.jpg http://i14.tinypic.com/42iui5j.jpg http://i41.tinypic.com/beintx.jpg What is wrong with facial hair in the military? Cause I heard these guys were supposedly pretty good. Not comptible with gas masks... Ergo the WWI 'end' to beards.... |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:05:10 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Quoted: Fuck em. Fit the standard or don't join. this Yup |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:05:52 PM EDT
[#20]
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Sikhs are not Hindus but they are the blood enemies of the Muslims. Putting them in the battle field against muslims will make the baby Obama cry. It will undue all the "hearts and minds" we've worked so hard to accomplish. So THERE! Where Vito113 when you need him? He can give a history of the Sikhs (im sure) in the british army. Tehy served all the way till 1948. Dont know how the british dealt with the NBC problem. in the pics i've seen they wear the full sikh regalia. I dont think it would anywhere near that bad, Iraq is even rebuilding an ancient Sikh Shrine |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:08:42 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: http://i42.tinypic.com/kw4tt.jpg http://i14.tinypic.com/42iui5j.jpg http://i41.tinypic.com/beintx.jpg What is wrong with facial hair in the military? Cause I heard these guys were supposedly pretty good. We are a professional army and facial hair screams UNDISCIPLINED ARMY. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:09:35 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: I guess it depends on what unit your in as there doesn't seem to be a problem with these guys having beards and waring turbans http://www.historycommons.org/events-images/b103_special_forces_supporting_dostum_2050081722-7087.jpg Those are SF soldiers, irregular soldiers. Not some doctors. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:11:36 PM EDT
[#23]
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http://i42.tinypic.com/kw4tt.jpg http://i14.tinypic.com/42iui5j.jpg http://i41.tinypic.com/beintx.jpg What is wrong with facial hair in the military? Cause I heard these guys were supposedly pretty good.
We are a professional army and facial hair screams UNDISCIPLINED ARMY. then why do we allow Mustaches? |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:13:19 PM EDT
[#24]
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Aren't the Sikhs some bad ass mofo's??? I believe they are the 'Klingons' of the Indian caste system. thier knives cannot be sheathed until bloodied.. You're thinking of Gurkhas And that part is a myth. One of the Gurkhas I work with said the best commanding officer he ever had in the Indian army was a Sikh. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:13:30 PM EDT
[#25]
I've worked with Sikhs and they are some bad ass mothers. Most of them average over 6 feet tall and naturally muscular. On top of that, they are some of the most generous people I've **EVER** met.
When my dad was stationed in Ramstein in 1986, we had a Sikh serving on the base. It was odd seeing the turban and beard, but good to know they were willing to defend their fellow citizens. What happened between now and 1986? IIRC my dad had 2 days a month he had to wear NBC gear all the time. Somehow the Sikhs were able to serve then. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:16:11 PM EDT
[#26]
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This already was challenged in the late '70s IIRC. I believe a court upheld Army regs for personal grooming standards. I was 12 or 13 at the time, so my memory may be failing me. As others have said, fuck these people. They may be a "warrior" class in south asia, but if they can't shave their fucking beards and cut their fucking hair for the privilege of wearing our uniform, they can go drive a bus in some city that doesn't give a shit. They're in our country. Our rules outweigh their cutural heritage. We're not a Hindu nation with Hindu values. I appreciate that they want to serve, but serving in the military isn't a "right". They are not fucking Hindu. Sikhs are bad ass. They grew out their hair and beards to scare the shit out of the Muslims they were fighting. They used to be required to carry a dagger at all times. Knee jerk "scary man with a knife" reactions has limited that now. While I don't think the military should be forced to conform to the Sikh religion, I (and you too even if you don't know it) would be glad to have one by my side on the battlefield. The ones I know are some of the hardest workers I have ever met. QFT. Although I believe their beards were grown to not cut the creation that God has seen fit to give them. A little poetic license, but I think the end outcome scared people. You should see them with their hair down. Those beards have been tied up as well. I'm talking ZZ Top size beards. And to comment on the part I've marked in red above: The ones I know don't drive busses. They're your doctors when you go to the VA. Take that, xenophobe!  They may be badass, but our armed forces have done just fine without them for over two centuries. Your thinking is short sided. We have personal grooming standards for a reason. If you can justify making an exception for one group, then where does it end? Or are saying that long hair and beards are ok for everyone now? I mean, why would they be allowed an exception, and not anyone else? Your reasoning is bullshit. You sound like someone who's never dealt or thought about the issue from a level higher than an E-3. I welcome anyone that wants to fight for our cause, but it comes at a price. Earings, certain tattoos, body piercings / modifications, clothing syles, weight limits (I have to be careful on that one as I'm pushing the envelope...) and other "freedoms" are sacraficed for the duration of your voluntary enlistment. Don't like it? Too bad. Jump on the keyboard and complain about it all you want, but the needs of the service are not inclusive of wearing unauthorized long hair and facial hair. I don't go to the VA for medical care, but I have no fucking dea what that has to do with military service. Your assertion that I oppose making exceptions for certain ethnic groups so they can serve on AD based on xenophobia is typical of the type of emotional wierdness I see from the left every time I pick up the paper to read the editorials. Good job, slick. Try again. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:19:24 PM EDT
[#27]
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I've worked with Sikhs and they are some bad ass mothers. Most of them average over 6 feet tall and naturally muscular. On top of that, they are some of the most generous people I've **EVER** met. When my dad was stationed in Ramstein in 1986, we had a Sikh serving on the base. It was odd seeing the turban and beard, but good to know they were willing to defend their fellow citizens. What happened between now and 1986? IIRC my dad had 2 days a month he had to wear NBC gear all the time. Somehow the Sikhs were able to serve then. They still serve, im guessing that some folks are trying to get them to shave, |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:21:54 PM EDT
[#28]
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This already was challenged in the late '70s IIRC. I believe a court upheld Army regs for personal grooming standards. I was 12 or 13 at the time, so my memory may be failing me. As others have said, fuck these people. They may be a "warrior" class in south asia, but if they can't shave their fucking beards and cut their fucking hair for the privilege of wearing our uniform, they can go drive a bus in some city that doesn't give a shit. They're in our country. Our rules outweigh their cutural heritage. We're not a Hindu nation with Hindu values. I appreciate that they want to serve, but serving in the military isn't a "right". They are not fucking Hindu. Sikhs are bad ass. They grew out their hair and beards to scare the shit out of the Muslims they were fighting. They used to be required to carry a dagger at all times. Knee jerk "scary man with a knife" reactions has limited that now. While I don't think the military should be forced to conform to the Sikh religion, I (and you too even if you don't know it) would be glad to have one by my side on the battlefield. The ones I know are some of the hardest workers I have ever met. QFT. Although I believe their beards were grown to not cut the creation that God has seen fit to give them. A little poetic license, but I think the end outcome scared people. You should see them with their hair down. Those beards have been tied up as well. I'm talking ZZ Top size beards. And to comment on the part I've marked in red above: The ones I know don't drive busses. They're your doctors when you go to the VA. Take that, xenophobe! They may be badass, but our armed forces have done just fine without them for over two centuries. Your thinking is short sided. We have personal grooming standards for a reason. If you can justify making an exception for one group, then where does it end? Or are saying that long hair and beards are ok for everyone now? I mean, why would they be allowed an exception, and not anyone else? Your reasoning is bullshit. You sound like someone who's never dealt or thought about the issue from a level higher than an E-3. I welcome anyone that wants to fight for our cause, but it comes at a price. Earings, certain tattoos, body piercings / modifications, clothing syles, weight limits (I have to be careful on that one as I'm pushing the envelope...) and other "freedoms" are sacraficed for the duration of your voluntary enlistment. Don't like it? Too bad. Jump on the keyboard and complain about it all you want, but the needs of the service are not inclusive of wearing unauthorized long hair and facial hair. I don't go to the VA for medical care, but I have no fucking dea what that has to do with military service. Your assertion that I oppose making exceptions for certain ethnic groups so they can serve on AD based on xenophobia is typical of the type of emotional wierdness I see from the left every time I pick up the paper to read the editorials. Good job, slick. Try again. And whats wrong with letting them keep their beard and turban for Religious reasons? They may still be able to fit on NBC gear, if not make sure they understand the risks before going in. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:21:58 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Stick there ass in the gas chamber with a mask and there beard. And tell them, we will do this till it no longer effects you or you cut your damn hair Bet a sihk (without a mask) will last longer in there than you (with a mask)... having been in the CS chamber, I will gladly take that bet. +1. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:22:43 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: http://i42.tinypic.com/kw4tt.jpg http://i14.tinypic.com/42iui5j.jpg http://i41.tinypic.com/beintx.jpg What is wrong with facial hair in the military? Cause I heard these guys were supposedly pretty good. That was a time before there was such a thing as chemical warfare.  ETA: And you forgot a pic of Sherman....  |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:23:56 PM EDT
[#31]
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I guess it depends on what unit your in as there doesn't seem to be a problem with these guys having beards and waring turbans http://www.historycommons.org/events-images/b103_special_forces_supporting_dostum_2050081722-7087.jpg Those are SF soldiers, irregular soldiers. Not some doctors. If the Army can (sometimes) properly compartmentalize for SOF, then why not doctors? Don't get me wrong, "corn rows" and shaving profiles drive me insane, but discerning the difference between privates in a line unit and a very small group of professionals in various fields wouldn't seem too difficult or harmful to me. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:25:19 PM EDT
[#32]
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http://i42.tinypic.com/kw4tt.jpg http://i14.tinypic.com/42iui5j.jpg http://i41.tinypic.com/beintx.jpg What is wrong with facial hair in the military? Cause I heard these guys were supposedly pretty good.
We are a professional army and facial hair screams UNDISCIPLINED ARMY. A moustache must not extend below the lipline nor past the corners of the mouth. This is so your mask has smooth skin to seal against. Anyone that thinks the NBC threat is not that big of a deal needs to remember who our enemies are. If some crackpot in Japan can make ricin and deploy it in the subway system, it is very possible that the Taliban, or Al-Queda can and eventually use chemical weapons against us. Then there is Iran and North Korea. If they attack, they will use nukes, chemical weapons, or both. Mustard gas must not be hard to make either, it was used in WWI, and by Sadam. Not to mention that a thick beard can harbor fleas and lice when you can't properly care for it, like in combat. It gets dirty, matted, tangled, and becomes a health hazard. then why do we allow Mustaches? |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:25:42 PM EDT
[#33]
Army policy must have changed a few time since I was in: we had Sikhs in the army way back when and they had beards and turbans. I remember seeing one all the time at Ft Benning
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:26:41 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Quoted: Stick there ass in the gas chamber with a mask and there beard. And tell them, we will do this till it no longer effects you or you cut your damn hair Bet a sihk (without a mask) will last longer in there than you (with a mask)... Probably true - our grooming standards are not somehow objectively better. The whole pro-mask thing is a pretext - if anyone was going to gas us it would have been Hussein's Iraq or AQI. And given security concerns I think it would be better if we could all blend in better with the civilian population. After the Long assassination and the subsequent security warnings I decided to grow out my high-n-tight.
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:31:36 PM EDT
[#35]
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http://i42.tinypic.com/kw4tt.jpg http://i14.tinypic.com/42iui5j.jpg http://i41.tinypic.com/beintx.jpg What is wrong with facial hair in the military? Cause I heard these guys were supposedly pretty good.
Never heard of chemical or biological weapons, huh? FWIW, I've managed a good seal on more than one mask fitment test with a beard. Besides, the NBC threat is pretty theater-specific and can be forecast fairly effectively. Could you keep the seal while running around and doing exercises? As I stated earlier, I have no problem with people in the military having beards, and think it should even be encouraged while deployed. However, the military should have the option of forcing you to shave if we get in a conflict with a higher NBC threat. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:31:56 PM EDT
[#36]
The Army has a long-standing interest in how its members carrythemselves, with policies that ban exotic hair colors, long fingernailsor certain colors of lipstick.
That's a god damned lie! No matter what color of lipstick I used or what color I dyed my hair, the 1SG still screamed at me. Unless of course we went to the field, then it was "Ooo, you HAVE to wear makeup now.", and it was the crappy kind that gave me zits. Being Infantry was hard... 
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:32:25 PM EDT
[#37]
I'd be proud to serve side by side with a Sikh in the US military.
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:32:34 PM EDT
[#38]
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This already was challenged in the late '70s IIRC. I believe a court upheld Army regs for personal grooming standards. I was 12 or 13 at the time, so my memory may be failing me. As others have said, fuck these people. They may be a "warrior" class in south asia, but if they can't shave their fucking beards and cut their fucking hair for the privilege of wearing our uniform, they can go drive a bus in some city that doesn't give a shit. They're in our country. Our rules outweigh their cutural heritage. We're not a Hindu nation with Hindu values. I appreciate that they want to serve, but serving in the military isn't a "right". They are not fucking Hindu. Sikhs are bad ass. They grew out their hair and beards to scare the shit out of the Muslims they were fighting. They used to be required to carry a dagger at all times. Knee jerk "scary man with a knife" reactions has limited that now. While I don't think the military should be forced to conform to the Sikh religion, I (and you too even if you don't know it) would be glad to have one by my side on the battlefield. The ones I know are some of the hardest workers I have ever met. Still are. Even most federal buildings will let Sikhs bring their knife in. IIRC it's 5 (7?) things Sikh Undies Sikh Turban Sikh Knife Sikh Bracelet .... and my memory fails there. In general great folks, and overrepresented as police, firefighters and EMS. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:33:36 PM EDT
[#39]
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This already was challenged in the late '70s IIRC. I believe a court upheld Army regs for personal grooming standards. I was 12 or 13 at the time, so my memory may be failing me. As others have said, fuck these people. They may be a "warrior" class in south asia, but if they can't shave their fucking beards and cut their fucking hair for the privilege of wearing our uniform, they can go drive a bus in some city that doesn't give a shit. They're in our country. Our rules outweigh their cutural heritage. We're not a Hindu nation with Hindu values. I appreciate that they want to serve, but serving in the military isn't a "right". They are not fucking Hindu. Sikhs are bad ass. They grew out their hair and beards to scare the shit out of the Muslims they were fighting. They used to be required to carry a dagger at all times. Knee jerk "scary man with a knife" reactions has limited that now. While I don't think the military should be forced to conform to the Sikh religion, I (and you too even if you don't know it) would be glad to have one by my side on the battlefield. The ones I know are some of the hardest workers I have ever met. QFT. Although I believe their beards were grown to not cut the creation that God has seen fit to give them. A little poetic license, but I think the end outcome scared people. You should see them with their hair down. Those beards have been tied up as well. I'm talking ZZ Top size beards. And to comment on the part I've marked in red above: The ones I know don't drive busses. They're your doctors when you go to the VA. Take that, xenophobe! They may be badass, but our armed forces have done just fine without them for over two centuries. Your thinking is short sided. We have personal grooming standards for a reason. If you can justify making an exception for one group, then where does it end? Or are saying that long hair and beards are ok for everyone now? I mean, why would they be allowed an exception, and not anyone else? Your reasoning is bullshit. You sound like someone who's never dealt or thought about the issue from a level higher than an E-3. I welcome anyone that wants to fight for our cause, but it comes at a price. Earings, certain tattoos, body piercings / modifications, clothing syles, weight limits (I have to be careful on that one as I'm pushing the envelope...) and other "freedoms" are sacraficed for the duration of your voluntary enlistment. Don't like it? Too bad. Jump on the keyboard and complain about it all you want, but the needs of the service are not inclusive of wearing unauthorized long hair and facial hair. I don't go to the VA for medical care, but I have no fucking dea what that has to do with military service. Your assertion that I oppose making exceptions for certain ethnic groups so they can serve on AD based on xenophobia is typical of the type of emotional wierdness I see from the left every time I pick up the paper to read the editorials. Good job, slick. Try again. And whats wrong with letting them keep their beard and turban for Religious reasons? They may still be able to fit on NBC gear, if not make sure they understand the risks before going in. If it was only a risk to themselves it wouldn't be an issue. Its a risk to everyone in the unit that they're in. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:33:49 PM EDT
[#40]
We are a professional army and facial hair screams UNDISCIPLINED ARMY. Bull shit. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:36:37 PM EDT
[#41]
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This already was challenged in the late '70s IIRC. I believe a court upheld Army regs for personal grooming standards. I was 12 or 13 at the time, so my memory may be failing me. As others have said, fuck these people. They may be a "warrior" class in south asia, but if they can't shave their fucking beards and cut their fucking hair for the privilege of wearing our uniform, they can go drive a bus in some city that doesn't give a shit. They're in our country. Our rules outweigh their cutural heritage. We're not a Hindu nation with Hindu values. I appreciate that they want to serve, but serving in the military isn't a "right". They are not fucking Hindu. Sikhs are bad ass. They grew out their hair and beards to scare the shit out of the Muslims they were fighting. They used to be required to carry a dagger at all times. Knee jerk "scary man with a knife" reactions has limited that now. While I don't think the military should be forced to conform to the Sikh religion, I (and you too even if you don't know it) would be glad to have one by my side on the battlefield. The ones I know are some of the hardest workers I have ever met. Still are. Even most federal buildings will let Sikhs bring their knife in. IIRC it's 5 (7?) things Sikh Undies Sikh Turban Sikh Knife Sikh Bracelet .... and my memory fails there. In general great folks, and overrepresented as police, firefighters and EMS. Isn't the 5th the hair and beard? |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:36:52 PM EDT
[#42]
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This already was challenged in the late '70s IIRC. I believe a court upheld Army regs for personal grooming standards. I was 12 or 13 at the time, so my memory may be failing me. As others have said, fuck these people. They may be a "warrior" class in south asia, but if they can't shave their fucking beards and cut their fucking hair for the privilege of wearing our uniform, they can go drive a bus in some city that doesn't give a shit. They're in our country. Our rules outweigh their cutural heritage. We're not a Hindu nation with Hindu values. I appreciate that they want to serve, but serving in the military isn't a "right". They are not fucking Hindu. Sikhs are bad ass. They grew out their hair and beards to scare the shit out of the Muslims they were fighting. They used to be required to carry a dagger at all times. Knee jerk "scary man with a knife" reactions has limited that now. While I don't think the military should be forced to conform to the Sikh religion, I (and you too even if you don't know it) would be glad to have one by my side on the battlefield. The ones I know are some of the hardest workers I have ever met. Still are. Even most federal buildings will let Sikhs bring their knife in. IIRC it's 5 (7?) things Sikh Undies Sikh Turban Sikh Knife Sikh Bracelet .... and my memory fails there. In general great folks, and overrepresented as police, firefighters and EMS. From Wikipedia * Kesh (uncut hair) * Kanga (wooden comb) * Kachchhera (undergarment to wear) * Kara (iron bracelet) * Kirpan (strapped sword). |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:37:58 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: BullshitQuoted: http://i42.tinypic.com/kw4tt.jpg http://i14.tinypic.com/42iui5j.jpg http://i41.tinypic.com/beintx.jpg What is wrong with facial hair in the military? Cause I heard these guys were supposedly pretty good. We are a professional army and facial hair screams UNDISCIPLINED ARMY. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:40:14 PM EDT
[#44]
Let em' have beards and turbans situation permitting, just keep the beards neatly trimmed (like a goatee), and the turbans a conservative color. No reason the Army and the Sikh's beliefs can't meet halfway. I mean, it might just be me but I think those black turbans look a hell of a lot better than the berets.
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:41:26 PM EDT
[#45]
Isn't diversity terrific!
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:42:00 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Let em' have beards and turbans situation permitting, just keep the beards neatly trimmed (like a goatee), and the turbans a conservative color. No reason the Army and the Sikh's beliefs can't meet halfway. I mean, it might just be me but I think those black turbans look a hell of a lot better than the berets.
goatees are the cop-out form of facial hair. Go all or nothing, circumstance permitting. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:43:07 PM EDT
[#47]
Shave or SHUT UP.
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:43:18 PM EDT
[#48]
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This already was challenged in the late '70s IIRC. I believe a court upheld Army regs for personal grooming standards. I was 12 or 13 at the time, so my memory may be failing me. As others have said, fuck these people. They may be a "warrior" class in south asia, but if they can't shave their fucking beards and cut their fucking hair for the privilege of wearing our uniform, they can go drive a bus in some city that doesn't give a shit. They're in our country. Our rules outweigh their cutural heritage. We're not a Hindu nation with Hindu values. I appreciate that they want to serve, but serving in the military isn't a "right". They are not fucking Hindu. Sikhs are bad ass. They grew out their hair and beards to scare the shit out of the Muslims they were fighting. They used to be required to carry a dagger at all times. Knee jerk "scary man with a knife" reactions has limited that now. While I don't think the military should be forced to conform to the Sikh religion, I (and you too even if you don't know it) would be glad to have one by my side on the battlefield. The ones I know are some of the hardest workers I have ever met. QFT. Although I believe their beards were grown to not cut the creation that God has seen fit to give them. A little poetic license, but I think the end outcome scared people. You should see them with their hair down. Those beards have been tied up as well. I'm talking ZZ Top size beards. And to comment on the part I've marked in red above: The ones I know don't drive busses. They're your doctors when you go to the VA. Take that, xenophobe! They may be badass, but our armed forces have done just fine without them for over two centuries. Your thinking is short sided. We have personal grooming standards for a reason. If you can justify making an exception for one group, then where does it end? Or are saying that long hair and beards are ok for everyone now? I mean, why would they be allowed an exception, and not anyone else? Your reasoning is bullshit. You sound like someone who's never dealt or thought about the issue from a level higher than an E-3. I welcome anyone that wants to fight for our cause, but it comes at a price. Earings, certain tattoos, body piercings / modifications, clothing syles, weight limits (I have to be careful on that one as I'm pushing the envelope...) and other "freedoms" are sacraficed for the duration of your voluntary enlistment. Don't like it? Too bad. Jump on the keyboard and complain about it all you want, but the needs of the service are not inclusive of wearing unauthorized long hair and facial hair. I don't go to the VA for medical care, but I have no fucking dea what that has to do with military service. Your assertion that I oppose making exceptions for certain ethnic groups so they can serve on AD based on xenophobia is typical of the type of emotional wierdness I see from the left every time I pick up the paper to read the editorials. Good job, slick. Try again. And whats wrong with letting them keep their beard and turban for Religious reasons? They may still be able to fit on NBC gear, if not make sure they understand the risks before going in. Ok, Sikhs get a free pass, but only Sikhs and nobody else? Pretty soon we're going to have black service members wearing hairnets again like they did in the '70s. No thanks guys. One rule that applies to everyone. Anything else discriminates against everyone else with "unconventional" cutural traditions. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:43:27 PM EDT
[#49]
There is a big difference between enforcing the regulatory standard because it is your duty to do so and defending the standard as an intellectual exercise. Don't believe me? The AR 670-1 standard for head gear is the black beret. Don't like it? GTFO and don't complain about it or GEN Shinseki. He obviously had a good reason for doing what he did. Who are you to question him?
 How about the Army Regulations and post regulations regarding firearm ownership on post. Why are you complaining Soldier it is the standard. How dare you complain about the abortion that is the Army Service Uniform. It is the standard. We need more flexibility at the regulatory making level.
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:46:08 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Stick there ass in the gas chamber with a mask and there beard. And tell them, we will do this till it no longer effects you or you cut your damn hair +1 |
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