Should non-custodial parents be forced into jail for failure to pay child support? - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Should non-custodial parents be forced into jail for failure to pay child support? (Page 2 of 7)

Posted: 6/3/2008 8:15:42 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
I like how no body has mentioned their kids and trying to gain custody. I like how nobody seems to give a sht about their offspring, only their pocketbooks. I would kill and willingly be killed for my kids. They would have to take them like they would have to take my guns, over my dead body.

You can video of the woman having sex with the entire junior varsity team while snorting coke and not get custody.

Posted: 6/3/2008 8:16:13 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't care if they have the means to pay it and refuse to pay. It should be a jailable offense.

This is a civil matter not criminal.

Bama, should or should not be jailable? Typo?

Not.

Rogo-That. In your experience Bama, how many people actually go to jail?

Posted: 6/3/2008 8:16:29 AM EDT

[#3]

I wonder what lengths you would go through to keep and protect your 2nd amendment rights.

Money, money, money. Family is the only thing in this world that matters, everything else is just a luxury.

Posted: 6/3/2008 8:16:42 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I like how no body has mentioned their kids and trying to gain custody. I like how nobody seems to give a sht about their offspring, only their pocketbooks. I would kill and willingly be killed for my kids. They would have to take them like they would have to take my guns, over my dead body.

You can video of the woman having sex with the entire junior varsity team while snorting coke and not get custody.

Sad, but true.

Posted: 6/3/2008 8:19:16 AM EDT

[#5]

And why does no one have a prenup? A prenup is like having health insurance, why would you go without?

Posted: 6/3/2008 8:19:34 AM EDT

[#6]

I am supporting some losers 2 sperm donations. He is in jail often enough on his own. Yeah, his wages are garnished. I think he has had wages 4 months in the last 4 years.

---
fwiw, I am saying this tongue in cheek. The kids are great, and it is truly his loss that he wants nothing to do with them. And that is better for the kids (for a lot of unspoken and best forgotten abuses).

Posted: 6/3/2008 8:24:38 AM EDT

[#7]

Watch where you point that thing and you'll be fine.

Posted: 6/3/2008 8:31:56 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
And why does no one have a prenup? A prenup is like having health insurance, why would you go without?

If you're ig'nant enough about the law to think that a prenup can even TOUCH child support issues, then you have no business preaching on this topic.

Posted: 6/3/2008 8:36:13 AM EDT

[#9]

I don't see how it does any good to spend money to put them in jail.

Eventually. a friend or relative will show up with the money to bail them out. That money pays off their back support. Yes, deadbeets should be jailed.

Posted: 6/3/2008 8:38:50 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
And why does no one have a prenup? A prenup is like having health insurance, why would you go without?

If you're ig'nant enough about the law to think that a prenup can even TOUCH child support issues, then you have no business preaching on this topic.

I was more referring to those who were bitching that their wife/lover/whatever sit home and take them for everything they have with no recourse.

Posted: 6/3/2008 8:39:15 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I say... it depends on the situation.

My daughter is married to a wack-job ex-Marine (before all the REAL Marines get on me about this - the guy is such an asshat the Marines refused to let him re-up.) She's trying to get a divorce, but he fights her every step. She's trying to get him to pay his support for her three kids, but he has no job, working under the table for whatever he can get. She's working her ass off trying to do right by the kids, and she only leans on us when she absolutely has to. This guy has shown himself to be a violent person, and the only time he ever straightened up was when he spent a couple months in jail for trying to break into her apartment and stab her. (The fucktard only did a couple months because she refused to testify against him, and without her testimony, the case fell apart.)

I think that as long as you can go before a judge and show that the payments aren't being made, and that this is willful and deliberate, then yes, the fucktard needs to be locked up for as long as is needed to teach him about feeding his kids. And if he has decent reasons, or if she's just being a malicious bitch, then the judge needs to tell her to go pee up a rope...

With due respect, sir:

1. How exactly is additional prison time going to make him any more employable?

2. What responsibility does your daughter have for refusing to testify against him?

3. Why should I, as a divorced man, have to deal with a system that treats me like I'm the shitbag ex-marine you describe?

1. He's only employable NOW to the extent that he wishes to be. That is, he shows no legitimate employ.
2. She still loves the dirtbag. I do believe that, for better or worse. And I pray fo rher.
3. You should have to deal with a system where some impartial mediator looks at the WHOLE picture, and then decides things fairly. If a dirtbag needs a month in the spammer to teach him the value of obeying a court order, then so be it. If an honest man is doing his best, through tough times, then that should be enough.

Posted: 6/3/2008 8:40:36 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I say... it depends on the situation.

My daughter is married to a wack-job ex-Marine (before all the REAL Marines get on me about this - the guy is such an asshat the Marines refused to let him re-up.) She's trying to get a divorce, but he fights her every step. She's trying to get him to pay his support for her three kids, but he has no job, working under the table for whatever he can get. She's working her ass off trying to do right by the kids, and she only leans on us when she absolutely has to. This guy has shown himself to be a violent person, and the only time he ever straightened up was when he spent a couple months in jail for trying to break into her apartment and stab her. (The fucktard only did a couple months because she refused to testify against him, and without her testimony, the case fell apart.)

I think that as long as you can go before a judge and show that the payments aren't being made, and that this is willful and deliberate, then yes, the fucktard needs to be locked up for as long as is needed to teach him about feeding his kids. And if he has decent reasons, or if she's just being a malicious bitch, then the judge needs to tell her to go pee up a rope...

With due respect, sir:

1. How exactly is additional prison time going to make him any more employable?

2. What responsibility does your daughter have for refusing to testify against him?

3. Why should I, as a divorced man, have to deal with a system that treats me like I'm the shitbag ex-marine you describe?

1. He's only employable NOW to the extent that he wishes to be. That is, he shows no legitimate employ.
2. She still loves the dirtbag. I do believe that, for better or worse. And I pray fo rher.
3. You should have to deal with a system where some impartial mediator looks at the WHOLE picture, and then decides things fairly. If a dirtbag needs a month in the spammer to teach him the value of obeying a court order, then so be it. If an honest man is doing his best, through tough times, then that should be enough.

+1, A sensible answer to a difficult problem.

Posted: 6/3/2008 8:41:27 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
I say, no.

Yes, in certain circumstances.

Posted: 6/3/2008 8:41:31 AM EDT

[#14]

Surprised no one has said that they are against any enforcement of child support awards because that leads to less single-mother strippers.... and we likes our strippers.

Posted: 6/3/2008 8:42:25 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
No.

Don't most states garnish wages for failure to pay?

Can't exactly do that if the guy is self-employed, can you?

I don't see how it does any good to spend money to put them in jail.

Sometimes a weekend in the pokey is the only thing that will properly "motivate" a guy to do his duty as a parent and support his kid.

Posted: 6/3/2008 8:43:19 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
I have a kid from before I was married I have zero say in how she is raised by her wacko Mother, she refuses to see me and has been poisoned against me. Her Mother on the other hand has no job, lives with her Mother and milks the system dry. I say no fucking way. Women want equal treatment, they need to do equal work. Can't afford to raise your kid? Kid should go to the Father. I have spent tens of thousands fighting her in court over the years and in the last couple years have pretty much given up. You'd be amazed how high the deck is stacked against you if you are the father. It's basically, keep your mouth shut and hand over the checks. It's disgusting.

ETA: Millions of men have supported their families without the women doing a lick of work for years. If women want equality, they need to earn it.

Almost all of my female clients that receive child support also work. Why should the custodial parent bear the entire burden of supporting the child?

Posted: 6/3/2008 8:44:06 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I say yes because that money is supposed to be for the child, although in reality this rarely happens. I believe that once you have a child you have signed your life away if you like it or not. If you don't want to pay then don't screw the wacko.

The money NEVER goes to the child, it ALWAYS goes in the Mother's pocket. Banging a wacko doesn't justify an 18 year financial jail sentence.

Oh boy...

And where, pray tell, does the money come from to pay for food, formula, clothing, etc? From the same mother's pocket where the child support went, perhaps?

Posted: 6/3/2008 8:45:07 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I say... it depends on the situation.

My daughter is married to a wack-job ex-Marine (before all the REAL Marines get on me about this - the guy is such an asshat the Marines refused to let him re-up.) She's trying to get a divorce, but he fights her every step. She's trying to get him to pay his support for her three kids, but he has no job, working under the table for whatever he can get. She's working her ass off trying to do right by the kids, and she only leans on us when she absolutely has to. This guy has shown himself to be a violent person, and the only time he ever straightened up was when he spent a couple months in jail for trying to break into her apartment and stab her. (The fucktard only did a couple months because she refused to testify against him, and without her testimony, the case fell apart.)

I think that as long as you can go before a judge and show that the payments aren't being made, and that this is willful and deliberate, then yes, the fucktard needs to be locked up for as long as is needed to teach him about feeding his kids. And if he has decent reasons, or if she's just being a malicious bitch, then the judge needs to tell her to go pee up a rope...

If he's such an asshole, why did she have THREE kids with him? This is exactly what I mean. When does HER responsibility come in to play? When?

So he should not have any fiscal responsibility to the kids? She bears the 100% responsibility to feed and clothe them?

If she is raising them with no involvement from the Father then yes. If he was such a deadbeat asshole, she shouldn't have let him impregnate her three times. The woman has a "choice" the man has zero recourse.

Many women rope men in knowing damn well they will be getting money for years to come.

Why should men be expected to support their families, yet woman have zero financial accountability? Why won't the courts force women on welfare taking in child support to get a job?

She's one of those kids that married her high school sweetheart. He enlisted in the Marnies, and they got married. I never liked him, but when he enlisted, I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. The kids came along, as they will. Turns out he was just as big a douche as I suspected.

He's one of those guys that only respects force. The only thing that will ever get him to support his kids is someone more powerful than he is, forcing him to. If I got to have my way, we'd legalize indentured servitude (in select cases) and sell off his labor to the highest bidder, only releasing him of his debt when he chose to pick up his burden voluntarily.

But in this case, I admit, I may be biased.

Posted: 6/3/2008 8:45:11 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Surprised no one has said that they are against any enforcement of child support awards because that leads to less single-mother strippers.... and we likes our strippers.

Damn, good point. I change my mind.

Posted: 6/3/2008 8:46:42 AM EDT

[#20]

NO!

As long as women have the right to choose, so should men.

Posted: 6/3/2008 8:48:36 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
NO!

As long as women have the right to choose, so should men.

Men do have a choice, its called sodomy.

Posted: 6/3/2008 8:48:37 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If you don't want to pay then either don't have sex or get sterilized. I see NO excuses in this. It really is not that hard to NOT get someone pregnant. I see the creation of life as serious as taking a life, both will affect you for the rest of yours.

Nice generalization jack ass.

You can't even pretend to be that self righteous with knowing every situation. My wife got pregnant and left while I was on the road (I drive truck), I begged her to come back (preg by other dude and all). She made the decision to go out on her own, she should be 100% responsible for the money. I DID NOT WALK OUT ON HER.

What is your point? She got preg by the other dude right????

Welcome to the world of child support. Since it happened during his marriage, he is the "presumptive father" and the state can come after him until he, on his dime and at his expense, proves the child is not his.

That's an entirely different issue and is tangential to OP's question.

Should custodial parents who refuse, repeatedly and without justification, to provide court-ordered visitation be jailed?

Or lose their primary physical custody?

WHat about where a parade of experts comes into the the Court talking about how much damage the custodial parent is doing by way of parental alienation? (In Colorado, the answer is: Custodial parent keeps the kid....

You cannot try to isolate one little tidbit of a gravely flawed system and try to examine it in isolation. IF the system were fair and truly working to the best interests of the children instead of the best interests of the custodial PARENT, then it would be worth a discussion of the jailing of fathers. Given the bias, unfairness, and slant evident in the entirety of the rest of the system, I see no reason to accord that system much of a benefit of the doubt when it endeavors to take someone's liberty for not writing a check.

As far as I remember, indentured servitude, debtors' prisons, and the like were outlawed for the entire remainder of the population some time ago.

As I recall, you are a lawyer and you know that contempt proceedings for failure to pay court-ordered child support are a far cry from indentured servitude, debtors' prisons and the like. You also know that there are strong policy reasons to make child support payments enforceable through contempt proceedings rather than expensive and potentially usesless garnishment or collection procedures. You also know that those issues you outline are separable and do not impact that basic point about developing the most efficient means of enforcing child support obligations. Your arguments are disingenuous (lawyer speak for bullshit).

By the way, you seem like a stand-up guy so I'm not trying to start a pissing match (usually I end up getting drenched when I do

).

Posted: 6/3/2008 8:49:57 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If you don't want to pay then either don't have sex or get sterilized. I see NO excuses in this. It really is not that hard to NOT get someone pregnant. I see the creation of life as serious as taking a life, both will affect you for the rest of yours.

Nice generalization jack ass.

You can't even pretend to be that self righteous with knowing every situation. My wife got pregnant and left while I was on the road (I drive truck), I begged her to come back (preg by other dude and all). She made the decision to go out on her own, she should be 100% responsible for the money. I DID NOT WALK OUT ON HER.

What is your point? She got preg by the other dude right????

Welcome to the world of child support. Since it happened during his marriage, he is the "presumptive father" and the state can come after him until he, on his dime and at his expense, proves the child is not his.

That's an entirely different issue and is tangential to OP's question.

Should custodial parents who refuse, repeatedly and without justification, to provide court-ordered visitation be jailed?

Yes, for contempt of court. That seems like it should be pretty clear.

Or lose their primary physical custody?

Parental interference can be grounds for a chance of custody.

WHat about where a parade of experts comes into the the Court talking about how much damage the custodial parent is doing by way of parental alienation? (In Colorado, the answer is: Custodial parent keeps the kid....

If you can prove alienation, in most states, the custodial parent will lose custody.

You cannot try to isolate one little tidbit of a gravely flawed system and try to examine it in isolation. IF the system were fair and truly working to the best interests of the children instead of the best interests of the custodial PARENT, then it would be worth a discussion of the jailing of fathers. Given the bias, unfairness, and slant evident in the entirety of the rest of the system, I see no reason to accord that system much of a benefit of the doubt when it endeavors to take someone's liberty for not writing a check.

You would prefer that the taxpayers pick up the tab via welfare, perhaps?

As far as I remember, indentured servitude, debtors' prisons, and the like were outlawed for the entire remainder of the population some time ago.

First, failure to comply with a court order is contempt, which is usually punishable by incarceration.

Second, sending someone to jail for nonsupport is not like a debtor's prison. It almost universally is only used when someone has the ability to pay but chooses not to. Obviously if a person can't pay then they should not be incarcerated. But what about the asshole who "works for himself" in a contracting business, cooks the books, drives a brand new pickup truck, refuses to turn over financial documents, and refuses to pay what he is ordered?

Posted: 6/3/2008 8:53:50 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
NO!

As long as women have the right to choose, so should men.

Men do have a choice, its called sodomy.

For some strange reason, women are not limited in that way.

There are enough screwed up examples of this horrid and unfair system for me to say that women should bear just as much responsibility as the man.

Posted: 6/3/2008 8:55:24 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
NO!

As long as women have the right to choose, so should men.

Yeah we've got a lot of people talking about personal responsibility of the father, but when it really comes down to it the mother is solely responsible for bringing the child into this world (I don't think it's right, that's just the way it is now).

Responsibility is a funny thing, though. If I had a kid I would think of myself as responsible for their wellbeing but I also cannot, in good conscience, use the force of law to MAKE someone else shoulder the same responsibilities I'd expect from myself.

And the idea of using an impartial mediator? That's exactly the type of system we have now: fucked.

Posted: 6/3/2008 8:55:39 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If you don't want to pay then either don't have sex or get sterilized. I see NO excuses in this. It really is not that hard to NOT get someone pregnant. I see the creation of life as serious as taking a life, both will affect you for the rest of yours.

Nice generalization jack ass.

You can't even pretend to be that self righteous with knowing every situation. My wife got pregnant and left while I was on the road (I drive truck), I begged her to come back (preg by other dude and all). She made the decision to go out on her own, she should be 100% responsible for the money. I DID NOT WALK OUT ON HER.

What is your point? She got preg by the other dude right????

Welcome to the world of child support. Since it happened during his marriage, he is the "presumptive father" and the state can come after him until he, on his dime and at his expense, proves the child is not his.

That's an entirely different issue and is tangential to OP's question.

Should custodial parents who refuse, repeatedly and without justification, to provide court-ordered visitation be jailed?

Yes, for contempt of court. That seems like it should be pretty clear.

Or lose their primary physical custody?

Parental interference can be grounds for a chance of custody.

WHat about where a parade of experts comes into the the Court talking about how much damage the custodial parent is doing by way of parental alienation? (In Colorado, the answer is: Custodial parent keeps the kid....

If you can prove alienation, in most states, the custodial parent will lose custody.

You cannot try to isolate one little tidbit of a gravely flawed system and try to examine it in isolation. IF the system were fair and truly working to the best interests of the children instead of the best interests of the custodial PARENT, then it would be worth a discussion of the jailing of fathers. Given the bias, unfairness, and slant evident in the entirety of the rest of the system, I see no reason to accord that system much of a benefit of the doubt when it endeavors to take someone's liberty for not writing a check.

You would prefer that the taxpayers pick up the tab via welfare, perhaps?

As far as I remember, indentured servitude, debtors' prisons, and the like were outlawed for the entire remainder of the population some time ago.

First, failure to comply with a court order is contempt, which is usually punishable by incarceration.

Second, sending someone to jail for nonsupport is not like a debtor's prison. It almost universally is only used when someone has the ability to pay but chooses not to. Obviously if a person can't pay then they should not be incarcerated. But what about the asshole who "works for himself" in a contracting business, cooks the books, drives a brand new pickup truck, refuses to turn over financial documents, and refuses to pay what he is ordered?

These people don't care about that, they just want to hit it and quit it. The simple fact is REAL men take care of their families and if that family fails then REAL men take care of their kids.

This society has strayed soooo far from what it once was. Nobody cares about personal responsibility anymore. "Just let the other guy foot the bill"

Posted: 6/3/2008 9:03:18 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If you don't want to pay then either don't have sex or get sterilized. I see NO excuses in this. It really is not that hard to NOT get someone pregnant. I see the creation of life as serious as taking a life, both will affect you for the rest of yours.

Nice generalization <Edit. Bama> .

You can't even pretend to be that self righteous with knowing every situation. My wife got pregnant and left while I was on the road (I drive truck), I begged her to come back (preg by other dude and all). She made the decision to go out on her own, she should be 100% responsible for the money. I DID NOT WALK OUT ON HER.

Mine walked out when she joined a wacko religious cult and I wouldn't condone it. I am remarried now and thank god the douchebag left, minus the remainder of support payments I have to pay her as she sits on her ass doing nothing.

So you have no responsibility for the child you fathered? I don't care if the courts banned you from ever seeing your child it was still your dick inside the whack job that led to the pregnancy.

Brian

Posted: 6/3/2008 9:05:53 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If you don't want to pay then either don't have sex or get sterilized. I see NO excuses in this. It really is not that hard to NOT get someone pregnant. I see the creation of life as serious as taking a life, both will affect you for the rest of yours.

Nice generalization jack ass.

You can't even pretend to be that self righteous with knowing every situation. My wife got pregnant and left while I was on the road (I drive truck), I begged her to come back (preg by other dude and all). She made the decision to go out on her own, she should be 100% responsible for the money. I DID NOT WALK OUT ON HER.

What is your point? She got preg by the other dude right????

Welcome to the world of child support. Since it happened during his marriage, he is the "presumptive father" and the state can come after him until he, on his dime and at his expense, proves the child is not his.

That's an entirely different issue and is tangential to OP's question.

Should custodial parents who refuse, repeatedly and without justification, to provide court-ordered visitation be jailed?

Or lose their primary physical custody?

WHat about where a parade of experts comes into the the Court talking about how much damage the custodial parent is doing by way of parental alienation? (In Colorado, the answer is: Custodial parent keeps the kid....

You cannot try to isolate one little tidbit of a gravely flawed system and try to examine it in isolation. IF the system were fair and truly working to the best interests of the children instead of the best interests of the custodial PARENT, then it would be worth a discussion of the jailing of fathers. Given the bias, unfairness, and slant evident in the entirety of the rest of the system, I see no reason to accord that system much of a benefit of the doubt when it endeavors to take someone's liberty for not writing a check.

As far as I remember, indentured servitude, debtors' prisons, and the like were outlawed for the entire remainder of the population some time ago.

As I recall, you are a lawyer and you know that contempt proceedings for failure to pay court-ordered child support are a far cry from indentured servitude, debtors' prisons and the like. You also know that there are strong policy reasons to make child support payments enforceable through contempt proceedings rather than expensive and potentially usesless garnishment or collection procedures. You also know that those issues you outline are separable and do not impact that basic point about developing the most efficient means of enforcing child support obligations. Your arguments are disingenuous (lawyer speak for bullshit).

By the way, you seem like a stand-up guy so I'm not trying to start a pissing match (usually I end up getting drenched when I do

).

Judges should not be able to send people to jail over a debt.

You can sugar coat it and wrap in it's for the children. It's being jailed over a debt.

Posted: 6/3/2008 9:06:34 AM EDT

[#29]

No

Posted: 6/3/2008 9:09:33 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
And why does no one have a prenup? A prenup is like having health insurance, why would you go without?

If you're ig'nant enough about the law to think that a prenup can even TOUCH child support issues, then you have no business preaching on this topic.

I was more referring to those who were bitching that their wife/lover/whatever sit home and take them for everything they have with no recourse.

Ah. I gotcha. Sorry for the tone, then.

Posted: 6/3/2008 9:16:25 AM EDT

[#31]

All Child Welfare laws, divorce laws, child support laws, custody laws etc are NOT designed to do ANYTHING BUT PUNISH MEN FOR HAVING PENISES.
It is a system set up by angry man haters, staffed entirely by angry man haters, to punish men for being men.
Once you understand this, the system makes perfect sense.

Posted: 6/3/2008 9:30:31 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
I have a kid from before I was married I have zero say in how she is raised by her wacko Mother, she refuses to see me and has been poisoned against me. Her Mother on the other hand has no job, lives with her Mother and milks the system dry. I say no fucking way. Women want equal treatment, they need to do equal work. Can't afford to raise your kid? Kid should go to the Father. I have spent tens of thousands fighting her in court over the years and in the last couple years have pretty much given up. You'd be amazed how high the deck is stacked against you if you are the father. It's basically, keep your mouth shut and hand over the checks. It's disgusting.

I have a very similar situation happen to me only we were married, we split up after 13 years because the she was seeing some one at work and wouldn't stop. The Ex moved in with her then boy friend with my two children, two months latter they break up and she has been living with her mother for the last 16 years. I have 7 more days to pay child support on my youngest and I'll be done with her atlas

Posted: 6/3/2008 9:39:23 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have a kid from before I was married I have zero say in how she is raised by her wacko Mother, she refuses to see me and has been poisoned against me. Her Mother on the other hand has no job, lives with her Mother and milks the system dry. I say no fucking way. Women want equal treatment, they need to do equal work. Can't afford to raise your kid? Kid should go to the Father. I have spent tens of thousands fighting her in court over the years and in the last couple years have pretty much given up. You'd be amazed how high the deck is stacked against you if you are the father. It's basically, keep your mouth shut and hand over the checks. It's disgusting.

I have a very similar situation happen to me only we were married, we split up after 13 years because the she was seeing some one at work and wouldn't stop. The Ex moved in with her then boy friend with my two children, two months latter they break up and she has been living with her mother for the last 16 years. I have 7 more days to pay child support on my youngest and I'll be done with her atlas

I can't wait for that day. I still have several years left. I have always paid, but the system is so skewed against men it is sickening, sickening. I was married to her too for about a year. Married her after knocking her up, didn't want to, thought it was the right thing to do and she has made my life a living nightmare ever since.

These guys on their high horse really don't understand what 20% of your income for 18 years really means. Plus, my daughters Mother comes from a long line of men hating feminazi's. Worst drunken mistake I have ever made in my life, ever.

I am remarried and have been for years, I love my wife very much and what people fail to realize is that my Wife pays for this as well. Try moving on with your life after something like this happens, it's like being a felon or convicted sex offender, it is no fun at all.

I agree about personal responsibility and have always made my payments, including health insurance that is from my Wife's employer that my ex also uses with a sympathetic doctor to get herself meds when she needs them. She has effectively turned my kid against me. My kid from my first marriage comes over (very rarely) and tells my current kids how awful I am, how abusive I am, how owning a gun is wrong, how my religion is wrong. It is fucking awful. I can't wait, can't wait until I am done with this BS.

Posted: 6/3/2008 10:43:22 AM EDT

[#34]

In all seriousness, our divorce system is one of the major causes of the decline of our civilization. Strong families are a bedrock of any successful society, and our system undermines this in a very fundamental way. The combination of no-fault divorce with a legal system which almost always awards children to their mother means that a women always has an option to fuck over her husband for life. And unlike a lot of legal issues, divorce and custody are common enough that the average joe can see how fucked the system is. At some point, if it hasn't happened already, men will just vote with their feet and not get married. The ones who do will be deadbeats who don't work and could care less if child support is awarded.

Good luck maintaining a successful society with a generation reared by deadbeats.

Posted: 6/3/2008 10:50:56 AM EDT

[#35]

As someone who has been personally trapped by a woman who singled me out as someone who could pay enough child support that she wouldn't have to work and then sabotaged the contraceptives, got pregnant and asked for $10,000 a month child support or a lump sum of $500,000 in exchange for an abortion.... No, I don't feel I should be put in jail.

When she realized that I don't make anywhere near as much money as she imagined, she disappeared with the kid.

Posted: 6/3/2008 11:04:41 AM EDT

[#36]

i have had custody of my kids for 11 years, my ex does not pay child support. My wife has custody of her child and her ex does not pay. I make good money but i would be nice to have more leverage than a letter from the state saying you have to pay. We could push for garnishment but my ex don't work (got remarried) and her ex works overseas, so his employer wont do it. Not bitching; if you can not pay child support for your kids then look them in the eyes, well sorry for you. I don't think that jail is the answer but a little responsibility goes along way.

Posted: 6/3/2008 11:08:11 AM EDT

[#37]

Only for contempt or willful falure to pay

Posted: 6/3/2008 11:10:32 AM EDT

[#38]

It depends.

The Court has jailed a number of individuals at my request. Everyone of them earned their ticket to jail, IMO.

Incidentally, 100% of them posted substantial sums of money shortly after being jailed. The judge and I have theorized that there is some sort of abandoned gold mine buried underneath the jail.

Quoted:

Judges should not be able to send people to jail over a debt.

You can sugar coat it and wrap in it's for the children. It's being jailed over a debt.

They are sent to jail for willfully disobeying a Court order. If the Court can't enforce its orders, it becomes entirely impotent and the orders cease to mean anything. No sugar coating or cries of the carrots. Just simple logic.

Posted: 6/3/2008 11:32:22 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
It depends.

The Court has jailed a number of individuals at my request. Everyone of them earned their ticket to jail, IMO.

Incidentally, 100% of them posted substantial sums of money shortly after being jailed. The judge and I have theorized that there is some sort of abandoned gold mine buried underneath the jail.

Quoted:

Judges should not be able to send people to jail over a debt.

You can sugar coat it and wrap in it's for the children. It's being jailed over a debt.

They are sent to jail for willfully disobeying a Court order. If the Court can't enforce its orders, it becomes entirely impotent and the orders cease to mean anything. No sugar coating or cries of the carrots. Just simple logic.

Then you do like anything else in the civil world go after assets. No assets, tough.

Putting people in jail for not paying a debt ordered by the court is debtor prison.

Posted: 6/3/2008 11:35:50 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It depends.

The Court has jailed a number of individuals at my request. Everyone of them earned their ticket to jail, IMO.

Incidentally, 100% of them posted substantial sums of money shortly after being jailed. The judge and I have theorized that there is some sort of abandoned gold mine buried underneath the jail.

Quoted:

Judges should not be able to send people to jail over a debt.

You can sugar coat it and wrap in it's for the children. It's being jailed over a debt.

They are sent to jail for willfully disobeying a Court order. If the Court can't enforce its orders, it becomes entirely impotent and the orders cease to mean anything. No sugar coating or cries of the carrots. Just simple logic.

Then you do like anything else in the civil world go after assets. No assets, tough.

Putting people in jail for not paying a debt ordered by the court is debtor prison.

In Montana, they don't put you in jail, they take all recreational and professional licences, fishing/hunting licence, drivers licence, Business licence.

Posted: 6/3/2008 11:37:57 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
It depends.

The Court has jailed a number of individuals at my request. Everyone of them earned their ticket to jail, IMO.

Incidentally, 100% of them posted substantial sums of money shortly after being jailed. The judge and I have theorized that there is some sort of abandoned gold mine buried underneath the jail.

Quoted:

Judges should not be able to send people to jail over a debt.

You can sugar coat it and wrap in it's for the children. It's being jailed over a debt.

They are sent to jail for willfully disobeying a Court order. If the Court can't enforce its orders, it becomes entirely impotent and the orders cease to mean anything. No sugar coating or cries of the carrots. Just simple logic.

I'd like to personally thank you for being a part of the system that makes my life and countless others a serious living hell here in IL. You are perfect for this state, job well done!

Posted: 6/3/2008 11:38:43 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
It depends.

The Court has jailed a number of individuals at my request. Everyone of them earned their ticket to jail, IMO.

Incidentally, 100% of them posted substantial sums of money shortly after being jailed. The judge and I have theorized that there is some sort of abandoned gold mine buried underneath the jail.

Quoted:

Judges should not be able to send people to jail over a debt.

You can sugar coat it and wrap in it's for the children. It's being jailed over a debt.

They are sent to jail for willfully disobeying a Court order. If the Court can't enforce its orders, it becomes entirely impotent and the orders cease to mean anything. No sugar coating or cries of the carrots. Just simple logic.

And to add, I'm in Construction, my business has disapeared. Should I go to jail over this?

Posted: 6/3/2008 11:40:15 AM EDT

[#43]

And if I ever get socked with support, God forbid I have any freedom to leave the highly paid hellhole which is life in a big law firm. Nope, can't ever take a lower-paying job. Still on the hook for payments based on what I "should" be making.

Posted: 6/3/2008 11:45:35 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
And if I ever get socked with support, God forbid I have any freedom to leave the highly paid hellhole which is life in a big law firm. Nope, can't ever take a lower-paying job. Still on the hook for payments based on what I "should" be making.

Yep, it's Hell with a bag of chips.

Posted: 6/3/2008 11:46:06 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I say yes because that money is supposed to be for the child, although in reality this rarely happens. I believe that once you have a child you have signed your life away if you like it or not. If you don't want to pay then don't screw the wacko.

The money NEVER goes to the child, it ALWAYS goes in the Mother's pocket. Banging a wacko doesn't justify an 18 year financial jail sentence.

Yep

Ive seen more of my payments pissed away by that wretched whore of a cu-

oh never mind

Posted: 6/3/2008 11:57:56 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It depends.

The Court has jailed a number of individuals at my request. Everyone of them earned their ticket to jail, IMO.

Incidentally, 100% of them posted substantial sums of money shortly after being jailed. The judge and I have theorized that there is some sort of abandoned gold mine buried underneath the jail.

Quoted:

Judges should not be able to send people to jail over a debt.

You can sugar coat it and wrap in it's for the children. It's being jailed over a debt.

They are sent to jail for willfully disobeying a Court order. If the Court can't enforce its orders, it becomes entirely impotent and the orders cease to mean anything. No sugar coating or cries of the carrots. Just simple logic.

Then you do like anything else in the civil world go after assets. No assets, tough.

Putting people in jail for not paying a debt ordered by the court is debtor prison.

Wrong... no assets, no order, nothing to violate. If I have an order to pay, it's because you had the ability. If you go to jail, it's because you WILFULLY failed to pay...not because you couldn't.

Quoted:

And to add, I'm in Construction, my business has disapeared. Should I go to jail over this?

See my response to Bama.

Posted: 6/3/2008 12:05:07 PM EDT

[#47]

True story:

When my 1st wife & I divorced(cheater) of course she got custody of the children.

I did my best to keep up with child support & tried to be a good father in spite of all of the shit she slung. She moved the guy she cheated with in with her.(monkey/branch) & I had to deal with this tool for years.
Fast forward a few years: I'm working for a local school system my child suppport is being taken from my check and I'm literally fighting to get to see my kids. I'm told that visitation/child support are seperate issues. In the middle of this I get a supoena to go to court for "non-payment of child support."
I hit the roof!
I tryed to communicate with the agency but was treated like I was a criminal! Finally one day I called the office and just happened to get the attorney on the phone. He was reading me the riot act and not listening to a word I had to say. I finaly told him that if I was going to jail it was going to be for something worthwhile & I was coming over to kick his ass. He suddenly got all apoligetic and said now don't be rash! I also told him that I had proof that I had payed my support & not only was I going "to put your ass in the hospital" that I welcomed going to court to prove to the judge how screwed up his office was!
It turns out they were applying my support to some other case. The charges magically disappeared & everytime I saw him(small town) he would look away.
I eventually took my ex back to court for visitation and the (lady) judge told my ex, "young lady, consider yourself lucky I'm not putting you in jail!"
As soon as the children were of age and no longer "money-makers" I was the only parent they could come to for anything. I did my best for my children even though for a while I didn't see them much. I personally think the govt should stay the hell out of family situations. Yes you are going to have some problems, but the vast majority of people are decent and things will work out.
JMHO YMMV

Hessian-1

Posted: 6/3/2008 12:16:13 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
If you are going to impose the sanction of liberty-deprivation, then there needs to be much greater control over the custodial parent's spending of the child support.

Further, if you want to make it a jailable offense, you ought in fairness subject custodial parents to deprivation of liberty for withholding court ordered parenting time.

Locally in WV the problem is getting the lazy bastard to get a fucking job so he can pay child support.

If someone is not paying child support and refuses to get a job, then either castrate the bastard or put him in jail. His child is not the responsibilty of the state or the tax payers.

Custodial rights should be enforced, even if they have to jail the mother to make it happen.

Posted: 6/3/2008 12:19:25 PM EDT

[#49]

I would say jail, probably not, forced to pay up yes

BUT!!!!

I think that the father should have the option of placing atleast 50% or more of the funds into a trust or education account that the child will have access to when they are old enough to figure out what they need

Posted: 6/3/2008 12:48:34 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It depends.

The Court has jailed a number of individuals at my request. Everyone of them earned their ticket to jail, IMO.

Incidentally, 100% of them posted substantial sums of money shortly after being jailed. The judge and I have theorized that there is some sort of abandoned gold mine buried underneath the jail.

Quoted:

Judges should not be able to send people to jail over a debt.

You can sugar coat it and wrap in it's for the children. It's being jailed over a debt.

They are sent to jail for willfully disobeying a Court order. If the Court can't enforce its orders, it becomes entirely impotent and the orders cease to mean anything. No sugar coating or cries of the carrots. Just simple logic.

Then you do like anything else in the civil world go after assets. No assets, tough.

Putting people in jail for not paying a debt ordered by the court is debtor prison.

Wrong... no assets, no order, nothing to violate. If I have an order to pay, it's because you had the ability. If you go to jail, it's because you WILFULLY failed to pay...not because you couldn't.

Quoted:

And to add, I'm in Construction, my business has disapeared. Should I go to jail over this?

See my response to Bama.

I remember this old joke......"know what ya call a million lawyers chained together at the bottom of the Ocean......"

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Should non-custodial parents be forced into jail for failure to pay child support? (Page 2 of 7)

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