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Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:36:52 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:



No they are not Americans.
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Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:
Originally Posted By goldtop:
Do they have the same basic right to self defense as citizens?




No they are not Americans.



THIS.
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:36:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2014 7:38:32 AM EDT by wasabi848]
They want the baby, but don't want to be pregnant.  No f'in way.  They want the benefits, they can do what it takes to be here legally.

This question is no different than constitutional carry, but we're not making too big a stink about that being states rights and all.  

Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:36:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By goldtop:
Do they have the same basic right to self defense as citizens?

View Quote

Yes, they should be given a firearm and sent back to Mexico to reclaim their country.
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:36:58 AM EDT


Anyone should be able to walk into a store and buy a gun for cash, no questions asked.  Or order one online and have it shipped to their door.



So, yes.
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:37:08 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By thormx538:
They're here illegally. The point I'm getting at is that they should get the fuck out and come here through a legal channel.
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Originally Posted By thormx538:



Originally Posted By bcauz3y:



Well, you're consistent!





 




They're here illegally. The point I'm getting at is that they should get the fuck out and come here through a legal channel.


Fair enough.



 
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:37:13 AM EDT
NO
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:37:14 AM EDT
Of course.

Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:37:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2014 7:39:59 AM EDT by Daps]
Yeah they can own one.

Just as long as they leave it in what ever country the sneaked in from.

I take "the right of the people" meaning to be the legal citizens of the United States.

Illegals can defend themselves with a rock or something
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:37:58 AM EDT
nope.






become American citizens the legal and correct way..  then we will talk







but it doesn't stop them.. they carry them no matter what.. so i guess







WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT REALLY MAKE
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:38:31 AM EDT
They can have whatever right to own a weapon they had in their native country......meaning, generally, NONE.
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:38:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2014 7:39:41 AM EDT by SISUltra]
sí que deberían.

I think that everyone should be allowed to own firearms unless you have a serious mental problem or are a convicted violent felon.
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:38:51 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By amaixner:
If you say "no," then you negate the entire premise of weapons for self defense being a pre-existing human right, as was upheld by the supreme court. You are then a part of the problem.
View Quote


Because they are illegals, we can't confirm if they are eligible to own a firearm legally under US law. It's not that complicated. Do you want to give guns to the pedophile who fled his country because he raped, killed, tortured, smoked weed, ran the heroin trade, has 15 criminal investigations against him for murder, and is an islamic terrorist on the FBI's most wanted list?

I guess it's ok because he changed his name right? Lets give him a US passport and some free healthcare while we are at it right?

But if I had it my way, we would deport every single illegal immigrant back to their home country at their home countries expense (by deducting it from their US foreign aid).
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:39:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:39:49 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By FeebMaster:

Anyone should be able to walk into a store and buy a gun for cash, no questions asked.  Or order one online and have it shipped to their door.

So, yes.
View Quote

Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:39:58 AM EDT
so you guys want to arm invaders now?
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:40:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By goldtop:
Do they have the same basic right to self defense as citizens?

View Quote


No. They're criminals and prohibited persons.
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:40:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:41:09 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Shqype:

The Constitution does not grant us any rights; it simply enumerates some critical ones and forbids the government from infringing on them.  The rights are natural rights that come from God and are thus human rights.  How can a natural right granted by God only apply to a person born in this country?
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Originally Posted By Shqype:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By Alakazam:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
If you are going to give them firearms might as well throw in the right to vote and citizenship.


Voting and citizenship are not natural rights, life is, and by extension to means to protect it.


The right to own firearms is guaranteed to citizens.


The Constitution does not grant us any rights; it simply enumerates some critical ones and forbids the government from infringing on them.  The rights are natural rights that come from God and are thus human rights.  How can a natural right granted by God only apply to a person born in this country?


Easy, they gave it up when they came here illegally.
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:44:03 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Shqype:

The Constitution does not grant us any rights; it simply enumerates some critical ones and forbids the government from infringing on them.  The rights are natural rights that come from God and are thus human rights.  How can a natural right granted by God only apply to a person born in this country?
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Originally Posted By Shqype:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By Alakazam:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
If you are going to give them firearms might as well throw in the right to vote and citizenship.


Voting and citizenship are not natural rights, life is, and by extension to means to protect it.


The right to own firearms is guaranteed to citizens.


The Constitution does not grant us any rights; it simply enumerates some critical ones and forbids the government from infringing on them.  The rights are natural rights that come from God and are thus human rights.  How can a natural right granted by God only apply to a person born in this country?


this guy is onto something..

it reminds me the thread about gun rights for tourists..

Much ignorance was unveiled there
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:44:49 AM EDT
The only way an illegal alien is able to procure a firearm is through illegal means.  More law breaking...
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:45:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2014 7:47:22 AM EDT by Shung]
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Originally Posted By TacticalHeater:



THIS.
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Originally Posted By TacticalHeater:
Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:
Originally Posted By goldtop:
Do they have the same basic right to self defense as citizens?




No they are not Americans.



THIS.


so lets say im legally visiting the USA for work or pleasure..

I do not have the same basic right to self defense ? not the same natural God given rights ? Am i not protected by your Consitution which forbids the Govt on infringing on my rights ?

that being said, I agree that an illegal is a criminal.
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:47:39 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Shqype:

The Constitution does not grant us any rights; it simply enumerates some critical ones and forbids the government from infringing on them. The rights are natural rights that come from God and are thus human rights.  How can a natural right granted by God only apply to a person born in this country?
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Originally Posted By Shqype:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By Alakazam:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
If you are going to give them firearms might as well throw in the right to vote and citizenship.


Voting and citizenship are not natural rights, life is, and by extension to means to protect it.


The right to own firearms is guaranteed to citizens.


The Constitution does not grant us any rights; it simply enumerates some critical ones and forbids the government from infringing on them. The rights are natural rights that come from God and are thus human rights.  How can a natural right granted by God only apply to a person born in this country?


What if they don't believe in God?
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:47:58 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By Shung:
this guy is onto something..



it reminds me the thread about gun rights for tourists..



Much ignorance was unveiled there
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Originally Posted By Shung:



Originally Posted By Shqype:



The Constitution does not grant us any rights; it simply enumerates some critical ones and forbids the government from infringing on them.  The rights are natural rights that come from God and are thus human rights.  How can a natural right granted by God only apply to a person born in this country?




this guy is onto something..



it reminds me the thread about gun rights for tourists..



Much ignorance was unveiled there




That was a classic.



Gun control threads are always a train wreck here.



It is nice to see conservatives show their true colors, though.



 
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:48:19 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By amaixner:
If you say "no," then you negate the entire premise of weapons for self defense being a pre-existing human right, as was upheld by the supreme court. You are then a part of the problem.
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No it's bad enough they're foreign invaders they don't need to be armed
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:48:52 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Shung:


so lets say im legally visiting the USA for work or pleasure..

I do not have the same basic right to self defense ? not the same natural God given rights ? Am i not protected by your Consitution which forbids the Govt on infringing on my rights ?

that being said, I agree that an illegal is a criminal.
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Originally Posted By Shung:
Originally Posted By TacticalHeater:
Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:
Originally Posted By goldtop:
Do they have the same basic right to self defense as citizens?




No they are not Americans.



THIS.


so lets say im legally visiting the USA for work or pleasure..

I do not have the same basic right to self defense ? not the same natural God given rights ? Am i not protected by your Consitution which forbids the Govt on infringing on my rights ?

that being said, I agree that an illegal is a criminal.


So you smack the customs guy every time when he goes through your bags at the airport?
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:49:04 AM EDT
No.

Our laws are for our citizens and our guests.
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:49:23 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:


They shouldn't be allowed to own anything in this country if they are here illegally.
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Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By Alakazam:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By Alakazam:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
If you are going to give them firearms might as well throw in the right to vote and citizenship.


Voting and citizenship are not natural rights, life is, and by extension to means to protect it.


The right to own firearms is guaranteed to citizens.



What other tools should they not be allowed to own?


They shouldn't be allowed to own anything in this country if they are here illegally.


THIS x10

Some of you guys who think otherwise are just nuts in your thinking.
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:50:22 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By tango1978:





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Originally Posted By tango1978:



Originally Posted By FeebMaster:



Anyone should be able to walk into a store and buy a gun for cash, no questions asked.  Or order one online and have it shipped to their door.



So, yes.






What infringements would you like to see on the right to bear arms and how would you like to enforce them?





 
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:52:02 AM EDT
Illegals,  those that walked across the border, should not be allowed to live.  Let alone own guns.  I wish we would shoot them on sight.
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:52:17 AM EDT
I'm going to go with no. Illegal is Illegal.



These are American rights as far as I'm concerned. If you are here as a legal guest or working on becoming a citizen...

Green card =Yes

Work Visa = Yes

Citizen = Yes

Illegal = Fuck no
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:52:28 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Shung:


so lets say im legally visiting the USA for work or pleasure..

I do not have the same basic right to self defense ? not the same natural God given rights ? Am i not protected by your Consitution which forbids the Govt on infringing on my rights ?

that being said, I agree that an illegal is a criminal.
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Originally Posted By Shung:
Originally Posted By TacticalHeater:
Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:
Originally Posted By goldtop:
Do they have the same basic right to self defense as citizens?




No they are not Americans.



THIS.


so lets say im legally visiting the USA for work or pleasure..

I do not have the same basic right to self defense ? not the same natural God given rights ? Am i not protected by your Consitution which forbids the Govt on infringing on my rights ?

that being said, I agree that an illegal is a criminal.


Ok now you are talking about two Completely different things.

But can I have a gun if I visit Switzerland?
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:53:03 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By wasabi848:


So you smack the customs guy every time when he goes through your bags at the airport?
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Originally Posted By wasabi848:
Originally Posted By Shung:
Originally Posted By TacticalHeater:
Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:
Originally Posted By goldtop:
Do they have the same basic right to self defense as citizens?




No they are not Americans.



THIS.


so lets say im legally visiting the USA for work or pleasure..

I do not have the same basic right to self defense ? not the same natural God given rights ? Am i not protected by your Consitution which forbids the Govt on infringing on my rights ?

that being said, I agree that an illegal is a criminal.


So you smack the customs guy every time when he goes through your bags at the airport?


nope. He is sure allowed to check that im not bringing any banned stuff to the USA, and that im not a persona non grata in the USA..

but once im legally IN, why should have I my NATURAL RIGHTS protected ?????
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:54:33 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By EasTexan:
No.

They have already broken federal law by illegally migrating.

Now, an immigrant who goes through the proper channels?
Sure.
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Agreed.

I am conflicted in that I believe inalienable means no government can legitimately infringe on the right to bear arms. The constitution does not give us that right, it prohibits the government from infringing on it... fat lot of good THAT has done. Now if you are going to make the purist argument, you would defend an illegal's right to have a firearm. If you are a realist, you recognize that the second is infringed daily, and if a lawful citizen is going to take it in the ass, there is no way an illegal should be afforded any protection.

Here is where I'll compromise. IF the feds will vigorously enforce the immigration laws, I will support illegals applying for a CCW, and promptly being arrested during their background check and deported.
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:55:08 AM EDT
yes.
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:55:10 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Shung:


this guy is onto something..

it reminds me the thread about gun rights for tourists..

Much ignorance was unveiled there
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Originally Posted By Shung:
Originally Posted By Shqype:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By Alakazam:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
If you are going to give them firearms might as well throw in the right to vote and citizenship.


Voting and citizenship are not natural rights, life is, and by extension to means to protect it.


The right to own firearms is guaranteed to citizens.


The Constitution does not grant us any rights; it simply enumerates some critical ones and forbids the government from infringing on them.  The rights are natural rights that come from God and are thus human rights.  How can a natural right granted by God only apply to a person born in this country?


this guy is onto something..

it reminds me the thread about gun rights for tourists..

Much ignorance was unveiled there




You guys are

The agreed to "natural right" is to Self-defense

This can "include" a firearm but does not expressly state one.

Our own 2nd amendment further clarifies:

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Anyone that argues ILLEGALS should own guns here in the U.S. must explain either how illegals are part of our "militia" OR how they are part "of the people" in which every other instances refers to the citizens of our country as outlined in the very BEGINNING in the preamble.
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:55:27 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By FeebMaster:


That was a classic.

Gun control threads are always a train wreck here.

It is nice to see conservatives show their true colors, though.
 
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Originally Posted By FeebMaster:
Originally Posted By Shung:
Originally Posted By Shqype:

The Constitution does not grant us any rights; it simply enumerates some critical ones and forbids the government from infringing on them.  The rights are natural rights that come from God and are thus human rights.  How can a natural right granted by God only apply to a person born in this country?


this guy is onto something..

it reminds me the thread about gun rights for tourists..

Much ignorance was unveiled there


That was a classic.

Gun control threads are always a train wreck here.

It is nice to see conservatives show their true colors, though.
 


WTF are you guys talking about? Gun control? We are talking about people who shouldn't even be here in the first place.
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:55:48 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By c7aea15:


Ok now you are talking about two Completely different things.

But can I have a gun if I visit Switzerland?
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Originally Posted By c7aea15:
Originally Posted By Shung:
Originally Posted By TacticalHeater:
Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:
Originally Posted By goldtop:
Do they have the same basic right to self defense as citizens?




No they are not Americans.



THIS.


so lets say im legally visiting the USA for work or pleasure..

I do not have the same basic right to self defense ? not the same natural God given rights ? Am i not protected by your Consitution which forbids the Govt on infringing on my rights ?

that being said, I agree that an illegal is a criminal.


Ok now you are talking about two Completely different things.

But can I have a gun if I visit Switzerland?


1- its different things, but the process is the same.. im pretty sure those saying no HERE said NO in that other thread too..

2 -. nope you can't. But unfortunately (and I mean it ), Switzerland doesnt recognize a natural right to own guns, and doesnt have a Constitution that grants that this right can't be infringed on by the Govt.. (for citizen AND tourists)
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:55:50 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By FeebMaster:


What infringements would you like to see on the right to bear arms and how would you like to enforce them?

 
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Originally Posted By FeebMaster:
Originally Posted By tango1978:
Originally Posted By FeebMaster:

Anyone should be able to walk into a store and buy a gun for cash, no questions asked.  Or order one online and have it shipped to their door.

So, yes.



What infringements would you like to see on the right to bear arms and how would you like to enforce them?

 

So you think someone that shouldn't be here in the first place (alien) should be able to just walk in and buy a gun

As much as some of you think that a lawless society would be great it actually wouldn't, there have to be some rules and regulation in a society or you have total anarchy.
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:57:50 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By ryann:

No it's bad enough they're foreign invaders they don't need to be armed
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Originally Posted By ryann:
Originally Posted By amaixner:
If you say "no," then you negate the entire premise of weapons for self defense being a pre-existing human right, as was upheld by the supreme court. You are then a part of the problem.

No it's bad enough they're foreign invaders they don't need to be armed



If the Chinese decided to send twenty or thirty million military aged men to this country as "illegals" would everyone still be ok with them being armed?
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:58:08 AM EDT


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History

You guys are

The agreed to "natural right" is to Self-defense

This can "include" a firearm but does not expressly state one.

Our own 2nd amendment further clarifies:

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Anyone that argues ILLEGALS should own guns here in the U.S. must explain either how illegals are part of our "militia" OR how they are part "of the people" in which every other instances refers to the citizens of our country as outlined in the very BEGINNING in the preamble.
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the well regulated milita is ONE of the reasons the right to own and bear arms is protected against govr infringements. It isnt exclusive at all....
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:59:09 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By c7aea15:
No!

What kind of stupid ass question is that?

Our constitution and the bill of rights applies to American citizens.

ILLEGALS do not qualify and need to GTFO
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Actually our constitutional protections extend in many instances to anybody within our borders. An illegal arrested will still be granted the right to counsel, the right not to self-incriminate, the right to be secure in their possessions without a warrant being issued, the right not to be subject to cruel and unusual punishments, the right to appear before a judge in a timely manner, as well as any rights afforded under treaty with their nation and international law, such as the right to receive assistance from their consulate.
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:59:17 AM EDT
Although I think they should be immediately deported, I believe the right to bear arms is not a right granted by the government to the people but rather an inherent right of the people held sacred against the government.
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 7:59:36 AM EDT
Yes. Unalienable rights are unalienable.




Link Posted: 1/23/2014 8:00:19 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Shung:


nope. He is sure allowed to check that im not bringing any banned stuff to the USA, and that im not a persona non grata in the USA..

but once im legally IN, why should have I my NATURAL RIGHTS protected ?????
View Quote


You mean like finding a gun carried by an illegal visitor?  The question is about illegals, not legal visitors.
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 8:00:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2014 8:01:59 AM EDT by Shung]
Again,

Illegals shouldnt be allowed to own guns, because they have broken the law...


im just saying that some answers HERE reminded me about the Tourist gun rights thread, with asinine answers like :

- no, they arent americans.

- no, the consitution do not give them the same rights

etc etc..

Its clear that illegals shouldnt be allowed to own guns, but it is also clear that some of the reasons  they shouldnt that are invoked here are plain and show a LACK of understanding of the concept of NATURAL RIGHTS
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 8:01:29 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By wasabi848:


You mean like finding a gun carried by an illegal visitor?  The question is about illegals, not legal visitors.
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Originally Posted By wasabi848:
Originally Posted By Shung:


nope. He is sure allowed to check that im not bringing any banned stuff to the USA, and that im not a persona non grata in the USA..

but once im legally IN, why should have I my NATURAL RIGHTS protected ?????


You mean like finding a gun carried by an illegal visitor?  The question is about illegals, not legal visitors.


see my previous post
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 8:01:37 AM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sigp226:


They have the right to defend themselves. Now get the fuck out and defend yourselves wherever you came from. You can buy a gun after you figure out how to comply with the rest of our laws.
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Werd.



 
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 8:02:29 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Shung:


see my previous post
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Originally Posted By Shung:
Originally Posted By wasabi848:
Originally Posted By Shung:


nope. He is sure allowed to check that im not bringing any banned stuff to the USA, and that im not a persona non grata in the USA..

but once im legally IN, why should have I my NATURAL RIGHTS protected ?????


You mean like finding a gun carried by an illegal visitor?  The question is about illegals, not legal visitors.


see my previous post


And see where I posted before you that illegals don't get to have possession of a gun, but legals, yes.
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 8:02:39 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By DonFlynn:


NO......their ILLEGAL for Christ's sake......might as well let them vote while your at it.
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No kidding. Why is this tough for some people?
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 8:02:44 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Shung:

1- its different things, but the process is the same.. im pretty sure those saying no HERE said NO in that other thread too..

2 -. nope you can't. But unfortunately (and I mean it ), Switzerland doesnt recognize a natural right to own guns, and doesnt have a Constitution that grants that this right can't be infringed on by the Govt.. (for citizen AND tourists)
View Quote


The question was should illegals be allowed to own guns? Meaning people who broke the law to come here. The process is not the same.
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