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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:36:52 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No they are not Americans. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Do they have the same basic right to self defense as citizens? No they are not Americans. THIS. |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:36:54 AM EDT
[#2]
They want the baby, but don't want to be pregnant. No f'in way. They want the benefits, they can do what it takes to be here legally.
This question is no different than constitutional carry, but we're not making too big a stink about that being states rights and all. |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:36:57 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Do they have the same basic right to self defense as citizens? Yes, they should be given a firearm and sent back to Mexico to reclaim their country. |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:36:58 AM EDT
[#4]
Anyone should be able to walk into a store and buy a gun for cash, no questions asked. Or order one online and have it shipped to their door. So, yes. |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:37:08 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They're here illegally. The point I'm getting at is that they should get the fuck out and come here through a legal channel. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Well, you're consistent!  They're here illegally. The point I'm getting at is that they should get the fuck out and come here through a legal channel. Fair enough. |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:37:13 AM EDT
[#6]
NO
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:37:14 AM EDT
[#7]
Of course.
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:37:30 AM EDT
[#8]
Yeah they can own one.
Just as long as they leave it in what ever country the sneaked in from. I take "the right of the people" meaning to be the legal citizens of the United States. Illegals can defend themselves with a rock or something |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:37:58 AM EDT
[#9]
nope.
become American citizens the legal and correct way.. then we will talk but it doesn't stop them.. they carry them no matter what.. so i guess WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT REALLY MAKE
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:38:31 AM EDT
[#10]
They can have whatever right to own a weapon they had in their native country......meaning, generally, NONE.
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:38:45 AM EDT
[#11]
sí que deberían.
I think that everyone should be allowed to own firearms unless you have a serious mental problem or are a convicted violent felon. |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:38:51 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you say "no," then you negate the entire premise of weapons for self defense being a pre-existing human right, as was upheld by the supreme court. You are then a part of the problem. Because they are illegals, we can't confirm if they are eligible to own a firearm legally under US law. It's not that complicated. Do you want to give guns to the pedophile who fled his country because he raped, killed, tortured, smoked weed, ran the heroin trade, has 15 criminal investigations against him for murder, and is an islamic terrorist on the FBI's most wanted list? I guess it's ok because he changed his name right? Lets give him a US passport and some free healthcare while we are at it right? But if I had it my way, we would deport every single illegal immigrant back to their home country at their home countries expense (by deducting it from their US foreign aid). |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:39:28 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Constitution does not grant us any rights; it simply enumerates some critical ones and forbids the government from infringing on them. The rights are natural rights that come from God and are thus human rights. How can a natural right granted by God only apply to a person born in this country? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you are going to give them firearms might as well throw in the right to vote and citizenship. Voting and citizenship are not natural rights, life is, and by extension to means to protect it. The right to own firearms is guaranteed to citizens. The Constitution does not grant us any rights; it simply enumerates some critical ones and forbids the government from infringing on them. The rights are natural rights that come from God and are thus human rights. How can a natural right granted by God only apply to a person born in this country? They have the right of self defense but not to go down to the LGS and buy a gun. |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:39:49 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone should be able to walk into a store and buy a gun for cash, no questions asked. Or order one online and have it shipped to their door. So, yes. 
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:39:58 AM EDT
[#15]
so you guys want to arm invaders now?
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:40:06 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Do they have the same basic right to self defense as citizens? No. They're criminals and prohibited persons. |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:40:21 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What other tools should they not be allowed to own? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you are going to give them firearms might as well throw in the right to vote and citizenship. Voting and citizenship are not natural rights, life is, and by extension to means to protect it. The right to own firearms is guaranteed to citizens. What other tools should they not be allowed to own? They shouldn't be allowed to own anything in this country if they are here illegally. |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:41:09 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Constitution does not grant us any rights; it simply enumerates some critical ones and forbids the government from infringing on them. The rights are natural rights that come from God and are thus human rights. How can a natural right granted by God only apply to a person born in this country? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you are going to give them firearms might as well throw in the right to vote and citizenship. Voting and citizenship are not natural rights, life is, and by extension to means to protect it. The right to own firearms is guaranteed to citizens. The Constitution does not grant us any rights; it simply enumerates some critical ones and forbids the government from infringing on them. The rights are natural rights that come from God and are thus human rights. How can a natural right granted by God only apply to a person born in this country? Easy, they gave it up when they came here illegally. |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:44:03 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Constitution does not grant us any rights; it simply enumerates some critical ones and forbids the government from infringing on them. The rights are natural rights that come from God and are thus human rights. How can a natural right granted by God only apply to a person born in this country? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you are going to give them firearms might as well throw in the right to vote and citizenship. Voting and citizenship are not natural rights, life is, and by extension to means to protect it. The right to own firearms is guaranteed to citizens. The Constitution does not grant us any rights; it simply enumerates some critical ones and forbids the government from infringing on them. The rights are natural rights that come from God and are thus human rights. How can a natural right granted by God only apply to a person born in this country? this guy is onto something.. it reminds me the thread about gun rights for tourists.. Much ignorance was unveiled there |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:44:49 AM EDT
[#20]
The only way an illegal alien is able to procure a firearm is through illegal means. More law breaking...
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:45:59 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
THIS. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Do they have the same basic right to self defense as citizens? No they are not Americans. THIS. so lets say im legally visiting the USA for work or pleasure.. I do not have the same basic right to self defense ? not the same natural God given rights ? Am i not protected by your Consitution which forbids the Govt on infringing on my rights ? that being said, I agree that an illegal is a criminal. |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:47:39 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Constitution does not grant us any rights; it simply enumerates some critical ones and forbids the government from infringing on them. The rights are natural rights that come from God and are thus human rights. How can a natural right granted by God only apply to a person born in this country? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you are going to give them firearms might as well throw in the right to vote and citizenship. Voting and citizenship are not natural rights, life is, and by extension to means to protect it. The right to own firearms is guaranteed to citizens. The Constitution does not grant us any rights; it simply enumerates some critical ones and forbids the government from infringing on them. The rights are natural rights that come from God and are thus human rights. How can a natural right granted by God only apply to a person born in this country? What if they don't believe in God? |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:47:58 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: this guy is onto something.. it reminds me the thread about gun rights for tourists.. Much ignorance was unveiled there Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The Constitution does not grant us any rights; it simply enumerates some critical ones and forbids the government from infringing on them. The rights are natural rights that come from God and are thus human rights. How can a natural right granted by God only apply to a person born in this country? this guy is onto something.. it reminds me the thread about gun rights for tourists.. Much ignorance was unveiled there That was a classic. Gun control threads are always a train wreck here. It is nice to see conservatives show their true colors, though. |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:48:19 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you say "no," then you negate the entire premise of weapons for self defense being a pre-existing human right, as was upheld by the supreme court. You are then a part of the problem. No it's bad enough they're foreign invaders they don't need to be armed |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:48:52 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so lets say im legally visiting the USA for work or pleasure.. I do not have the same basic right to self defense ? not the same natural God given rights ? Am i not protected by your Consitution which forbids the Govt on infringing on my rights ? that being said, I agree that an illegal is a criminal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
Do they have the same basic right to self defense as citizens? No they are not Americans. THIS. so lets say im legally visiting the USA for work or pleasure.. I do not have the same basic right to self defense ? not the same natural God given rights ? Am i not protected by your Consitution which forbids the Govt on infringing on my rights ? that being said, I agree that an illegal is a criminal. So you smack the customs guy every time when he goes through your bags at the airport? |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:49:04 AM EDT
[#26]
No.
Our laws are for our citizens and our guests. |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:49:23 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They shouldn't be allowed to own anything in this country if they are here illegally. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you are going to give them firearms might as well throw in the right to vote and citizenship. Voting and citizenship are not natural rights, life is, and by extension to means to protect it. The right to own firearms is guaranteed to citizens. What other tools should they not be allowed to own? They shouldn't be allowed to own anything in this country if they are here illegally. THIS x10 Some of you guys who think otherwise are just nuts in your thinking. |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:50:22 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Anyone should be able to walk into a store and buy a gun for cash, no questions asked. Or order one online and have it shipped to their door. So, yes. What infringements would you like to see on the right to bear arms and how would you like to enforce them? |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:52:02 AM EDT
[#29]
Illegals, those that walked across the border, should not be allowed to live. Let alone own guns. I wish we would shoot them on sight.
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:52:17 AM EDT
[#30]
I'm going to go with no. Illegal is Illegal.
These are American rights as far as I'm concerned. If you are here as a legal guest or working on becoming a citizen... Green card =Yes Work Visa = Yes Citizen = Yes Illegal = Fuck no |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:52:28 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so lets say im legally visiting the USA for work or pleasure.. I do not have the same basic right to self defense ? not the same natural God given rights ? Am i not protected by your Consitution which forbids the Govt on infringing on my rights ? that being said, I agree that an illegal is a criminal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Do they have the same basic right to self defense as citizens? No they are not Americans. THIS. so lets say im legally visiting the USA for work or pleasure.. I do not have the same basic right to self defense ? not the same natural God given rights ? Am i not protected by your Consitution which forbids the Govt on infringing on my rights ? that being said, I agree that an illegal is a criminal. Ok now you are talking about two Completely different things. But can I have a gun if I visit Switzerland? |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:53:03 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So you smack the customs guy every time when he goes through your bags at the airport? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Do they have the same basic right to self defense as citizens? No they are not Americans. THIS. so lets say im legally visiting the USA for work or pleasure.. I do not have the same basic right to self defense ? not the same natural God given rights ? Am i not protected by your Consitution which forbids the Govt on infringing on my rights ? that being said, I agree that an illegal is a criminal. So you smack the customs guy every time when he goes through your bags at the airport? nope. He is sure allowed to check that im not bringing any banned stuff to the USA, and that im not a persona non grata in the USA.. but once im legally IN, why should have I my NATURAL RIGHTS protected ????? |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:54:33 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. They have already broken federal law by illegally migrating. Now, an immigrant who goes through the proper channels? Sure. Agreed. I am conflicted in that I believe inalienable means no government can legitimately infringe on the right to bear arms. The constitution does not give us that right, it prohibits the government from infringing on it... fat lot of good THAT has done. Now if you are going to make the purist argument, you would defend an illegal's right to have a firearm. If you are a realist, you recognize that the second is infringed daily, and if a lawful citizen is going to take it in the ass, there is no way an illegal should be afforded any protection. Here is where I'll compromise. IF the feds will vigorously enforce the immigration laws, I will support illegals applying for a CCW, and promptly being arrested during their background check and deported.
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:55:08 AM EDT
[#34]
yes.
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:55:10 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
this guy is onto something.. it reminds me the thread about gun rights for tourists.. Much ignorance was unveiled there Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you are going to give them firearms might as well throw in the right to vote and citizenship. Voting and citizenship are not natural rights, life is, and by extension to means to protect it. The right to own firearms is guaranteed to citizens. The Constitution does not grant us any rights; it simply enumerates some critical ones and forbids the government from infringing on them. The rights are natural rights that come from God and are thus human rights. How can a natural right granted by God only apply to a person born in this country? this guy is onto something.. it reminds me the thread about gun rights for tourists.. Much ignorance was unveiled there You guys are
The agreed to "natural right" is to Self-defense This can "include" a firearm but does not expressly state one. Our own 2nd amendment further clarifies: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Anyone that argues ILLEGALS should own guns here in the U.S. must explain either how illegals are part of our "militia" OR how they are part "of the people" in which every other instances refers to the citizens of our country as outlined in the very BEGINNING in the preamble. |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:55:27 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That was a classic. Gun control threads are always a train wreck here. It is nice to see conservatives show their true colors, though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Constitution does not grant us any rights; it simply enumerates some critical ones and forbids the government from infringing on them. The rights are natural rights that come from God and are thus human rights. How can a natural right granted by God only apply to a person born in this country? this guy is onto something.. it reminds me the thread about gun rights for tourists.. Much ignorance was unveiled there That was a classic. Gun control threads are always a train wreck here. It is nice to see conservatives show their true colors, though. WTF are you guys talking about? Gun control? We are talking about people who shouldn't even be here in the first place.
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:55:48 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok now you are talking about two Completely different things. But can I have a gun if I visit Switzerland? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Do they have the same basic right to self defense as citizens? No they are not Americans. THIS. so lets say im legally visiting the USA for work or pleasure.. I do not have the same basic right to self defense ? not the same natural God given rights ? Am i not protected by your Consitution which forbids the Govt on infringing on my rights ? that being said, I agree that an illegal is a criminal. Ok now you are talking about two Completely different things. But can I have a gun if I visit Switzerland? 1- its different things, but the process is the same.. im pretty sure those saying no HERE said NO in that other thread too.. 2 -. nope you can't. But unfortunately (and I mean it ), Switzerland doesnt recognize a natural right to own guns, and doesnt have a Constitution that grants that this right can't be infringed on by the Govt.. (for citizen AND tourists) |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:55:50 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What infringements would you like to see on the right to bear arms and how would you like to enforce them? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Anyone should be able to walk into a store and buy a gun for cash, no questions asked. Or order one online and have it shipped to their door. So, yes. What infringements would you like to see on the right to bear arms and how would you like to enforce them? So you think someone that shouldn't be here in the first place (alien) should be able to just walk in and buy a gun 
As much as some of you think that a lawless society would be great it actually wouldn't, there have to be some rules and regulation in a society or you have total anarchy. |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:57:50 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No it's bad enough they're foreign invaders they don't need to be armed Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If you say "no," then you negate the entire premise of weapons for self defense being a pre-existing human right, as was upheld by the supreme court. You are then a part of the problem. No it's bad enough they're foreign invaders they don't need to be armed If the Chinese decided to send twenty or thirty million military aged men to this country as "illegals" would everyone still be ok with them being armed? |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:58:08 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryYou guys are
The agreed to "natural right" is to Self-defense This can "include" a firearm but does not expressly state one. Our own 2nd amendment further clarifies: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Anyone that argues ILLEGALS should own guns here in the U.S. must explain either how illegals are part of our "militia" OR how they are part "of the people" in which every other instances refers to the citizens of our country as outlined in the very BEGINNING in the preamble. the well regulated milita is ONE of the reasons the right to own and bear arms is protected against govr infringements. It isnt exclusive at all.... |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:59:09 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No! What kind of stupid ass question is that? Our constitution and the bill of rights applies to American citizens. ILLEGALS do not qualify and need to GTFO Actually our constitutional protections extend in many instances to anybody within our borders. An illegal arrested will still be granted the right to counsel, the right not to self-incriminate, the right to be secure in their possessions without a warrant being issued, the right not to be subject to cruel and unusual punishments, the right to appear before a judge in a timely manner, as well as any rights afforded under treaty with their nation and international law, such as the right to receive assistance from their consulate. |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:59:17 AM EDT
[#42]
Although I think they should be immediately deported, I believe the right to bear arms is not a right granted by the government to the people but rather an inherent right of the people held sacred against the government.
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Posted: 1/23/2014 7:59:36 AM EDT
[#43]
Yes. Unalienable rights are unalienable.
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Posted: 1/23/2014 8:00:19 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
nope. He is sure allowed to check that im not bringing any banned stuff to the USA, and that im not a persona non grata in the USA.. but once im legally IN, why should have I my NATURAL RIGHTS protected ????? You mean like finding a gun carried by an illegal visitor? The question is about illegals, not legal visitors. |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 8:00:49 AM EDT
[#45]
Again,
Illegals shouldnt be allowed to own guns, because they have broken the law... im just saying that some answers HERE reminded me about the Tourist gun rights thread, with asinine answers like : - no, they arent americans. - no, the consitution do not give them the same rights etc etc.. Its clear that illegals shouldnt be allowed to own guns, but it is also clear that some of the reasons they shouldnt that are invoked here are plain and show a LACK of understanding of the concept of NATURAL RIGHTS
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Posted: 1/23/2014 8:01:29 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You mean like finding a gun carried by an illegal visitor? The question is about illegals, not legal visitors. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
nope. He is sure allowed to check that im not bringing any banned stuff to the USA, and that im not a persona non grata in the USA.. but once im legally IN, why should have I my NATURAL RIGHTS protected ????? You mean like finding a gun carried by an illegal visitor? The question is about illegals, not legal visitors. see my previous post |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 8:01:37 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They have the right to defend themselves. Now get the fuck out and defend yourselves wherever you came from. You can buy a gun after you figure out how to comply with the rest of our laws. |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 8:02:29 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
see my previous post Quote HistoryQuoted:
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nope. He is sure allowed to check that im not bringing any banned stuff to the USA, and that im not a persona non grata in the USA.. but once im legally IN, why should have I my NATURAL RIGHTS protected ????? You mean like finding a gun carried by an illegal visitor? The question is about illegals, not legal visitors. see my previous post And see where I posted before you that illegals don't get to have possession of a gun, but legals, yes. |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 8:02:39 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: NO......their ILLEGAL for Christ's sake......might as well let them vote while your at it. No kidding. Why is this tough for some people?
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Posted: 1/23/2014 8:02:44 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1- its different things, but the process is the same.. im pretty sure those saying no HERE said NO in that other thread too.. 2 -. nope you can't. But unfortunately (and I mean it ), Switzerland doesnt recognize a natural right to own guns, and doesnt have a Constitution that grants that this right can't be infringed on by the Govt.. (for citizen AND tourists) The question was should illegals be allowed to own guns? Meaning people who broke the law to come here. The process is not the same. |
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