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Posted: 4/23/2014 8:54:11 PM EDT
[#1]
My university offers courses like motorsports history and WWII Pacific theater global impacts. Its a good change from looking at a computer screens and green engineering paper all day.
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Posted: 4/23/2014 8:56:11 PM EDT
[#2]
I could have gotten more than I needed to be an accountant in 1 year. Instead, I had to waste 4 years of my life and pay a shit ton of money for bull shit classes.
The gen ed requirements only exist for colleges to make more money. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 9:02:03 PM EDT
[#3]
No. Dumb jocks have to have classes they can pass.
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Posted: 4/23/2014 10:27:25 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Instead of going to school for four years to get your degree in Guatemalan Lesbian Poetry and taking a year and a half of classes that don't relate to your major, you go to school for two and a half years and take ONLY classes directly related to Guatemalan Lesbian Poetry. What says ARFCOM? The idea of a general education as currently practiced much of the time is silly, but the idea of imparting a liberal education on all, to include those in the science and technology majors, is something which ought to be pursued, and that of course requires the student to take classes outside of their major; furthermore, their major may require knowledge that can only be gained through courses that are not actually part of the major. I think too many people today tend to forget, or have never known, that the university is not a vocational school, and that degrees are for the most part not about jobs, even if they can be useful to that end. As for majors like Guatemalan Lesbian Poetry, they neither represent a profession, anything useful for work or to society and civilization outside of the professions, do not prepare you for any of the former, and also do not represent the embodiment of a liberal education or any other good form of education. Schools should do away with them entirely and courses such as those should not be part of any curriculum that its creators desire to be considered of quality. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 10:29:34 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
College/Univeraity is NOT supposed to be vocational training. 
I am not sure why so many people fail to understand this. Maybe it's beause the U.S doesn't have a strong institutionalized apprentice/guild system.  Americans in the past have understood this, but for some reason most no longer do. It seems like the shift towards where we are today began at the very beginning of the post-war era, but I'm not certain of that; it is my impression, though. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 10:39:44 PM EDT
[#6]
OP,
Nah, terrible idea. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 8:39:46 AM EDT
[#7]
What does ARF think of the founders?
Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government;... whenever things get so far wrong as to attract their notice, they may be relied on to set them to rights. The most effectual means of preventing [the perversion of power into tyranny are] to illuminate, as far as practicable, the minds of the people at large, and more especially to give them knowledge of those facts which history exhibits, that possessed thereby of the experience of other ages and countries, they may be enabled to know ambition under all its shapes, and prompt to exert their natural powers to defeat its purposes. It is an axiom in my mind that our liberty can never be safe but in the hands of the people themselves, and that, too, of the people with a certain degree of instruction. This is the business of the state to effect, and on a general plan. If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be. Just a few from Jefferson, father of the Declaration of Independence. True general education (not women's studies & such tripe) is absolutely necessary for a free nation. One cannot be an effective participant in government, or an effective citizen and voter, if one lacks a good education in history, economics, science, math. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 8:58:48 AM EDT
[#8]
Those schools exist. They're called vocational, or technical, schools.
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Posted: 4/24/2014 9:01:26 AM EDT
[#9]
I am going to say yes, the shouldn't be required. At the same time though, Gen eds can allow people who are unsure about what they want to do, decide what there college path is gonna be.
In reality, I think all Universities should require a heavy amount of science, and basic engineering and computer engineering. That is not gonna happen though
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Posted: 4/24/2014 9:06:13 AM EDT
[#10]
We're living in a country where a majority of our population can not grasp basic fucking grammar, mathematics, economics, or history, and you're suggesting we should abandon all of those classes in higher level education?
For the poor students who major in pottery making and communications, GE courses might actually be the ONLY thing of value for their actual real lives in society! A fair amount of college graduates end up working in a field different from their major. If that's all they studied, then their meager education will have been a waste of time. My state university had an excellent blend of required, useful classes in the core subjects. They also required a certain number of 'easy' cultural or elective classes that put out well-rounded graduates with more cultural awareness and a more robust world view than they had from their shitty high school education in Smalltown USA. If all you want is a trade, go to trade skrewl. Then we can make fun of you when you're promoted to upper management, sending broadcast emails that look like they were dictated to a ten year old. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 9:08:34 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
College/Univeraity is NOT supposed to be vocational training.
I am not sure why so many people fail to understand this. Maybe it's beause the U.S doesn't have a strong institutionalized apprentice/guild system. Oh yeah well what do you know?
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Posted: 4/24/2014 9:11:04 AM EDT
[#12]
General education is a basic attribute of the classic liberal arts education. There is nothing wrong with a physics major being required to take philosophy classes or an anthropology major taking a few chemistry classes. Everybody should take English composition courses regardless of their field of study.
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Posted: 4/24/2014 9:13:30 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Terrible idea. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 9:15:16 AM EDT
[#14]
No. All knowledge is related.
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Posted: 4/24/2014 9:15:48 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not quite, the school I am at which I will not name is one of the top "education studies" school in PA. Once again as I edited in I am not at Harvard by any means but I'm at your typical state college. Also before you ask it is not a community college. Are you at one of the PASSHE schools? |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 9:16:54 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It also introduces them to shitloads of debt. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Most people start college only thinking they know what they want to major in. Taking genEd classes introduces them to stuff they don't know about. But there are to many math classes. It also introduces them to shitloads of debt. Only stupid people. . Three degrees here with 0 debt at age 35. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 9:19:19 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
College/Univeraity is NOT supposed to be vocational training.
I am not sure why so many people fail to understand this. Maybe it's beause the U.S doesn't have a strong institutionalized apprentice/guild system. I was going to become a wizard's apprentice, but I was never able to actually find a wizard to act as my mentor. 
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Posted: 4/24/2014 9:24:04 AM EDT
[#18]
I am finishing up my degree in my 40's. I can tell you that most of my classmates in my gen-ed classes NEED to be there. They are learning skills that were not learned in secondary school.
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Posted: 4/24/2014 9:26:18 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. All knowledge is related retarded. ~edited by the ARFCOM hivemind |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 9:26:48 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Americans in the past have understood this, but for some reason most no longer do. It seems like the shift towards where we are today began at the very beginning of the post-war era, but I'm not certain of that; it is my impression, though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
College/Univeraity is NOT supposed to be vocational training.
I am not sure why so many people fail to understand this. Maybe it's because the U.S doesn't have a strong institutionalized apprentice/guild system. Americans in the past have understood this, but for some reason most no longer do. It seems like the shift towards where we are today began at the very beginning of the post-war era, but I'm not certain of that; it is my impression, though. I blame it on the dumbing down of the American high school system and the backlash from employers requiring degrees for every position under the sun. I've hit a glass ceiling in my company, to have any hope of advancing I have to spend $15k for 4 years at a state university to buy a piece of paper saying I paid my dues and showed up mostly on time. As far as I know I can't get this accredited BS degree at any vocational school in my state. It's a complete waste of time. You don't need to take African American studies to look at prints and do quantity takeoffs!
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Posted: 4/24/2014 9:38:46 AM EDT
[#21]
Honestly if I could do college over I probably would have got a liberal arts degree. I understand why the Ivy's do it that way now. I think education wise, someone will get more from a Liberal Arts college.
But if you want to make some college degrees into essentially trades schools, be my guest, no harm there. I can just as easily see the value in an accounting trade school or a packaging trade school, sure. But mind you that true education and depth of intellect comes from the 'gen eds'. So naturally I think the solution is... get both?
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Posted: 4/24/2014 9:44:30 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I blame it on the dumbing down of the American high school system and the backlash from employers requiring degrees for every position under the sun. I've hit a glass ceiling in my company, to have any hope of advancing I have to spend $15k for 4 years at a state university to buy a piece of paper saying I paid my dues and showed up mostly on time. As far as I know I can't get this accredited BS degree at any vocational school in my state. It's a complete waste of time. You don't need to take African American studies to look at prints and do quantity takeoffs!Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
College/Univeraity is NOT supposed to be vocational training.
I am not sure why so many people fail to understand this. Maybe it's because the U.S doesn't have a strong institutionalized apprentice/guild system. Americans in the past have understood this, but for some reason most no longer do. It seems like the shift towards where we are today began at the very beginning of the post-war era, but I'm not certain of that; it is my impression, though. I blame it on the dumbing down of the American high school system and the backlash from employers requiring degrees for every position under the sun. I've hit a glass ceiling in my company, to have any hope of advancing I have to spend $15k for 4 years at a state university to buy a piece of paper saying I paid my dues and showed up mostly on time. As far as I know I can't get this accredited BS degree at any vocational school in my state. It's a complete waste of time. You don't need to take African American studies to look at prints and do quantity takeoffs!You really have the wrong idea of what college is all about. There is a phonebook of GE classes to choose from; skip the AA studies and choose something the interests you. It's not about paying dues- believe it or not you are actually expected to learn something in those 4 years. If they wanted somebody to read prints and pull quantities, they'd invest in a robot. If that is the extend of a person's usefulness to a company, how high of a wage do you expect them to pay for that? |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 9:46:29 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Honestly if I could do college over I probably would have got a liberal arts degree. I understand why the Ivy's do it that way now. I think education wise, someone will get more from a Liberal Arts college. But if you want to make some college degrees into essentially trades schools, be my guest, no harm there. I can just as easily see the value in an accounting trade school or a packaging trade school, sure. But mind you that true education and depth of intellect comes from the 'gen eds'. So naturally I think the solution is... get both?
I did 2 STEM degrees and a psych degree sadly I don't feel any smarter
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Posted: 4/24/2014 9:47:38 AM EDT
[#24]
I majored in Graphic Design and took a lot of Gen Ed classes, mostly English/writing courses and Speech Communications courses.
By the time I hit the job market, everything I learned in design was yesterday's news, technology-wise, and was totally useless. But I was very successful in my field, and I attribute that to my writing and communication skills. GenEd also led me on to a rewarding personal interest/hobby in American/Military history. I just wish I had taken more classes in Armenian Transgender Literature... |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 9:50:14 AM EDT
[#25]
There is nothing wrong with general education requirements or a liberal arts degree. There is something wrong with requiring a bachelor's degree for every job under the sun and telling kids from day one that they absolutely have to go to college.
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Posted: 4/24/2014 9:51:56 AM EDT
[#26]
Where, pray tell, does one find these fabled humanities courses? I have never seen "Guatemalan Lesbian Poetry" or "Armenian Transgender Literature" classes in the university schedules...
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Posted: 4/24/2014 9:55:32 AM EDT
[#27]
Absolutely not. The last thing this country needs is more engineers who can't write or understand economics, or more journalism/government majors who don't understand basic science.
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:01:23 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where, pray tell, does one find these fabled humanities courses? I have never seen "Guatemalan Lesbian Poetry" or "Armenian Transgender Literature" classes in the university schedules... |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:04:12 AM EDT
[#29]
Third year engineering student here - I say no. My general education classes did not slow down my college track at all, and made me a well rounded person. I thoroughly enjoyed economics, american history, and even humanities. I took my gen eds along with math and science courses for engineering.
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:09:06 AM EDT
[#30]
The world only needs so many engineers. College is not a trade school. If all you're doing at college is learning your major, you're failing, badly.
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:11:42 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Third year engineering student here - I say no. My general education classes did not slow down my college track at all, and made me a well rounded person. I thoroughly enjoyed economics, american history, and even humanities. I took my gen eds along with math and science courses for engineering.  |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:12:49 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where do y'all come up with this crap? College is absolutely vocational training ever since certain vocations started requiring a college degree. Go try to practice engineering without a degree. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
College is college, vocational training is vocational training. College is harder and more vast/encompassing for a reason. ETA: this from a vocational school grad who is now in college. Where do y'all come up with this crap? College is absolutely vocational training ever since certain vocations started requiring a college degree. Go try to practice engineering without a degree. My father was an electrical engineer for Illinois Bell, AT&T, and Lucent Technologies for over 34 years and he didn't even graduate High School. 
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:14:58 AM EDT
[#33]
I’ve been lucky enough to be able to complete a 4 year degree and an MBA. If you would have asked me this question during school I would have resounded with a resounding “yes” get rid of all the stupid GE classes. The longer I’m out of school I realize that the GE glasses are more helpful than I thought. Being “well rounded” as other posters have pointed out is a very useful thing.
Also, if you look at the layout of most degree programs many of the GE classes are used as “weed out” classes to separate those who really want to put the work into getting a degree from those who are just along for the beer and girls. Just like anything else, if it were easy everyone would have a degree…. What would the point be? That’s why I have little respect for most online degree programs, just give us 30 grand and we will send you a diploma. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:15:26 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No. The problem isn't the concept of general education, it's the stupid GE classes they offer. I agree. Your post is spot on............ |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:15:39 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And without GenEds you wouldn't know the joy of hearing liberal arts students whine about engineers ruining the curve in Econ. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Third year engineering student here - I say no. My general education classes did not slow down my college track at all, and made me a well rounded person. I thoroughly enjoyed economics, american history, and even humanities. I took my gen eds along with math and science courses for engineering.  |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:15:45 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We're living in a country where a majority of our population can not grasp basic fucking grammar, mathematics, economics, or history, and you're suggesting we should abandon all of those classes in higher level education? For the poor students who major in pottery making and communications, GE courses might actually be the ONLY thing of value for their actual real lives in society! A fair amount of college graduates end up working in a field different from their major. If that's all they studied, then their meager education will have been a waste of time. My state university had an excellent blend of required, useful classes in the core subjects. They also required a certain number of 'easy' cultural or elective classes that put out well-rounded graduates with more cultural awareness and a more robust world view than they had from their shitty high school education in Smalltown USA. If all you want is a trade, go to trade skrewl. Then we can make fun of you when you're promoted to upper management, sending broadcast emails that look like they were dictated to a ten year old. The majority of this website cannot grasp basic grammar, spelling, word usage, and more. If you're in college to learn these things, then you've strayed from the path a long time ago. College is NOT to teach basic english, mathematics, etc. I'm going to school for my BSN. What does writing an alternative version of Goldilocks (a no shit paper I completed a couple weeks ago) have to do with Anatomy, Pathophysiology, and more? Who really remembers the garbage spewed in their freshman sociology class? How does that help a person when they're knee deep in their career? If you're going to require Gen Ed classes then they should be worthwhile or at least relatable to the student's desired degree. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:19:05 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where do y'all come up with this crap? College is absolutely vocational training ever since certain vocations started requiring a college degree. Go try to practice engineering without a degree. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: College is college, vocational training is vocational training. College is harder and more vast/encompassing for a reason. ETA: this from a vocational school grad who is now in college. Where do y'all come up with this crap? College is absolutely vocational training ever since certain vocations started requiring a college degree. Go try to practice engineering without a degree. This paper sums up why businesses require college degrees. The author got a Nobel prize for it. http://www.econ.yale.edu/~dirkb/teach/pdf/spence/1973%20job%20market%20signalling.pdf |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:19:20 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My father was an electrical engineer for Illinois Bell, AT&T, and Lucent Technologies for over 34 years and he didn't even graduate High School. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
College is college, vocational training is vocational training. College is harder and more vast/encompassing for a reason. ETA: this from a vocational school grad who is now in college. Where do y'all come up with this crap? College is absolutely vocational training ever since certain vocations started requiring a college degree. Go try to practice engineering without a degree. My father was an electrical engineer for Illinois Bell, AT&T, and Lucent Technologies for over 34 years and he didn't even graduate High School. Then would he actually been an engineer ? |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:21:41 AM EDT
[#39]
Yes, and I'll explain why. For a few years I was working full-time while attending college full-time. I amassed 1/2 of my required credits to graduate while working in my field of study, and then I married and relocated. I took my transcripts to a major university and spoke with the Admissions office. They explained that they would be accepting all but a few of my upper-level courses as transfer credits, but that not a single GenEd course would transfer...which meant that I pissed away over a year of my time and money.
 So...for the past nearly three years, I have been taking about 90% GenEd courses, including required classes on Racism in America which consisted of little more than angrily denouncing Caucasians for an entire semester. I have one more semester to go and then I get a piece of paper to make it easier to advance in my career.
College, as an institution, is broken. GenEd requirements are just one way in which the system is deeply flawed. College is a business, backed by the FedGov. The primary goal is not education, and it never will be. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:23:32 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then would he actually been an engineer ? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: College is college, vocational training is vocational training. College is harder and more vast/encompassing for a reason. ETA: this from a vocational school grad who is now in college. Where do y'all come up with this crap? College is absolutely vocational training ever since certain vocations started requiring a college degree. Go try to practice engineering without a degree. My father was an electrical engineer for Illinois Bell, AT&T, and Lucent Technologies for over 34 years and he didn't even graduate High School. Then would he actually been an engineer ? |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:24:44 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
College is hard. People capable of putting up with it signal to employers that they are high productivity people. College is not hard or difficult. If anything, it is a way for an employer to gauge an applicant's ability to adhere to an attendance requirement, and it also allows an employer to gauge if an applicant has time-management skills. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:25:16 AM EDT
[#42]
certain majors should require the student to sign a statement that they understand they will never find a job in a field related to their major. They also forfeit any government assistance upon graduation when they fail to find a job in a field related to their major.
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:26:42 AM EDT
[#43]
Yes, why do I need to take 2 art classed to be an accountant. That's $2000 I don't need to spend.
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:29:43 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, why do I need to take 2 art classed to be an accountant. That's $2000 I don't need to spend. Why did you go to a 4 year college to be an accountant then? Aren't there associate degrees or tech schools that offer accounting? |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:31:08 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why did you go to a 4 year college to be an accountant then? Aren't there associate degrees or tech schools that offer accounting? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yes, why do I need to take 2 art classed to be an accountant. That's $2000 I don't need to spend. Why did you go to a 4 year college to be an accountant then? Aren't there associate degrees or tech schools that offer accounting? If one wants to advance in their field, especially a field like Accounting, a Bachelor's degree is more helpful than an Associate's degree or tech school...at least according to my accountant friends. YMMV. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:31:56 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am finishing up my degree in my 40's. I can tell you that most of my classmates in my gen-ed classes NEED to be there. They are learning skills that were not learned in secondary school. Holy Christ.  
Guys, College is NOT the place to learn these things. It boggles my mind that a lot of you keep saying that. If people do not have the basics down, then by and large, they do not deserve to be there wasting space and driving up class prices. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:32:27 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If one wants to advance in their field, especially a field like Accounting, a Bachelor's degree is more helpful than an Associate's degree or tech school...at least according to my accountant friends. YMMV. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yes, why do I need to take 2 art classed to be an accountant. That's $2000 I don't need to spend. Why did you go to a 4 year college to be an accountant then? Aren't there associate degrees or tech schools that offer accounting? If one wants to advance in their field, especially a field like Accounting, a Bachelor's degree is more helpful than an Associate's degree or tech school...at least according to my accountant friends. YMMV. So the problem is that the market rewards people who learn more than just a few accounting classes? |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:32:54 AM EDT
[#48]
Dropping general education may have saved me a semester as far as engineering was concerned, not really worth dropping IMHO.
Not to mention, taking 3 "hard courses" and art one semester meant my GPA was probably slightly higher in the "hard" courses than it would have been had I taken 4 of them. Plus, how else are you going to ogle the women's LaCross players if you don't take gened? Some were tall and hot! Others, Im pretty sure they could have picked me up and broke me over their knee. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:37:04 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I could have gotten more than I needed to be an accountant in 1 year. Instead, I had to waste 4 years of my life and pay a shit ton of money for bull shit classes. The gen ed requirements only exist for colleges to make more money. I'm calling BS. If you spend three years getting your general requirements fulfilled then you either got shafted hard or dicked around when you should have been in class. There is no way that 75% of a four year degree consists of unrelated general requirements. ETA As to the OP, some classes are stupid, others are beneficial. I see no problem with getting a well-rounded education. If you don't want the extra classes, get your associates degree and move on. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:40:01 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So the problem is that the market rewards people who learn more than just a few accounting classes? Of course the market currently rewards those who "learn more." The question remains, how much are people actually "learning" in these GenEd courses? Should someone be rewarded for taking a load of courses pertaining to Women's Studies, Racism in America (AKA "White People Suck"), Transgender Equality, etc.? Hell, I can go take Aikido right now if I so choose for college credit. I know many people who for the past year have taken courses strictly pertaining to Golfing, Swimming, and Yoga. The GenEd system is largely a joke, and everyone knows that it's a "run out the clock" situation.
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