Should We Help US Auto Makers To Survive? - Page 2

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Posted: 1/24/2006 11:36:45 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
As a strict, free-market capitalist, I don't like the idea of government bailing-out any industries that can't survive in a competitive environment. But I suspect that the heavy hand of government in general, has a lot to do with the demise of manufacturing in the US.

Yeah, the heavy hand of government that gave American manufacturers NAFTA and CAFTA so that American manufacturers could build their shit in other countries while paying slave wages is what put the American auto makers out of business.

CAFTA and NAFTA did not bring crapp to the showroom floor, and a slave wage to us is good money thier. American quality is certainly not superior or reflected in its higher price (labor costs) which just get passed onto the consumer. They let the unions get out of hand also they are sinking because of Unions and uncompetitive products period.

I beg to differ. I've been to the GM plant in Ramos Arzipe Mexico. The town looks like a set for a "Save the Children" commercial. The people who have it good live in "houses" with three walls and a roof. I saw more than one dwelling that consisted of a couple pieces of corragated aluminum with a tarp draped over the top. I hardly call that a "god living".

Posted: 1/24/2006 11:44:29 AM EDT

[#2]

Tell me again why Unions are so great and that the .gov needs to bail their asses out! Chapter 11 reorganization is the only way to rebalance the skewed wage/benefit extortion of the union workers. They brought it all upon themselves, I feel no sympathy.

Posted: 1/24/2006 11:45:18 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
It's kinda of odd..Ford and GM, Floundering in debt, failing their arms about screaming for help...Yet, when NAFTA was voted in, They both tripped over themselves running to Mexico...At the same time, The Japs, bulit plants here, put Americans to work (with few, if any layoffs) at a wages, benefits comparable to a UAW member, buy parts and sub assemblys from American manfacturers and generally build a better product. I worked at Honda in Marysville for a outside contractor (I'm a pipefitter) and I saw how they treat their people, hell they even invited us in to use their cafeteria, This may not sound like much to many of you, But, it means alot when you work outside all day. but I've also worked in a couple of Ford plants as well,we were told to stay out of their cafeteria...or get fired, this came from the UAW, and plant management...Nice people.. The Honda people were treated well, everyone who worked there really liked it, The shops were clean and it was clear they took pride in what they were building, My observations at Ford were just the opposite, Alot acted like they could give a rats less...I'd would've fired them all. The Honda's I see from Marysville are I think about a 90% made in America car...Go look at A GM, Ford lot, see where the parts come from. The UAW and thier stance on health care is going to do them in, I do believe that Ford and GM will file for bankruptcy protection soon, the UAW will have to make a choice.. start paying a large protion of their own health care like everybody else, or get booted out alltogether,and get nothing. They'll fold... But as far as the orginial question, No..No goverment support. At least Chrysler paid the govt back... I doubt Ford or GM would....The Govt. dosen't need to be the Auto making business.

You have to take into account the reason that the Japanese (and Saturn too) are treating their employees so well. They are doing it to prevent the Unions from getting in. If the Japanese did not have to worry about employees voting to organize and join the UAW, then I'd be willing to bet that they would not be so generous.

I'm not saying that the Unions haven't screwed up the auto industry, becuase I believe that they have. The Unions have gone too far, gotten too greedy and wound up cutting their own throats. But the unions did alot of good too. Before the unions there was rampant abuse of employees in the workplace (especially in the auto industry). The unions put an end to that and negotiated better wages for their members.

Posted: 1/24/2006 11:47:07 AM EDT

[#4]

No. It's a free market - if they can't make cars that sell, then they deserve to die. Do you think we'll get a decent product out of them if they know .gov will prop them up no matter what they do? The only way to make them make a good product is to make sure they know that they will die if they don't.

Posted: 1/24/2006 11:48:21 AM EDT

[#5]

well, if they made cars that people actually wanted to buy, that didn't have a tendency to fall apart, they wouldn't be in this situation, now would they?

Posted: 1/24/2006 11:50:25 AM EDT

[#6]

Steve, what's your solution to bringing high-paying manufacturing jobs back to America? You know, the high-paying jobs that can compete favorably with China, India, SE Asia, et al?

Higher corporate taxes? High tariffs? Government control of free markets?
$20/hour minimum wage? More enviromental laws? More socialism?

Let the free markets decide where we buy our cars from.

Posted: 1/24/2006 11:53:20 AM EDT

[#7]

The problem is that the Japanese aren't playing fair. They don't really have a free market, and don't allow the American markets to compete as much.

Posted: 1/24/2006 11:53:53 AM EDT

[#8]

The heavy manufacturing capability of the American auto industry is too important for national defense for us to allow it to be lost.

Posted: 1/24/2006 11:54:16 AM EDT

[#9]

I am in favor of helping them out. I say we send them some designers with fresh ideas. There is not a fresh looking vehicle coming out from those two. If they made something that I or other people liked then they would not be in trouble.

Posted: 1/24/2006 11:54:17 AM EDT

[#10]

Sink.

Make a car people want to buy.

Make the dealership a pleasurebale experience.

Pay your workers what YOU think they are worth. Let their performance dictate the pay/ benefits they earn.

Posted: 1/24/2006 12:01:03 PM EDT

[#11]

Actually the American public has been propping them up by buying what their fathers did despite mediocre products.

Regardless of how we feel, it is the single largest US industry employing directly and indirectly more people than any two other industries combined. Allowing them to fold would be catastropic to our economy, however artificially propping them up without a clear plan to correct their past mistakes is also a collosal mistake.

Fords restructure comes right after the first introduction of a production sell out vehicle platform they've had in my lifetime. Its a day late and dollar short.

There's a fix but we won't see it. They need to fire 80% of their executives especially in purchasing and marketing. They have no supplier loyalty in fact their suppliers hate them. Lopez is a POS. Their marketing people are dominated by manufacturing so every car is just like the last one and forget being innovative we'll do a me too.

I'd give them money with condition the mangement changes. That won't happen though.

Tj

Posted: 1/24/2006 12:16:50 PM EDT

[#12]

I'm all for adding higher tariffs on imported goods, including cars.

Other than that, no help - they'll just end up like the airlines.

They'll keep spending, keep driving prices up, and will eventually claim bankruptcy anyway.

Posted: 1/24/2006 12:20:27 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Steve, what's your solution to bringing high-paying manufacturing jobs back to America? You know, the high-paying jobs that can compete favorably with China, India, SE Asia, et al?

Higher corporate taxes? High tariffs? Government control of free markets?
$20/hour minimum wage? More enviromental laws? More socialism?

Let the free markets decide where we buy our cars from.

Yea the point is...

NAFTA and CAFTA are a smoke screen it is NOT the problem… and has NOTHING to do with the real menace CHINA. Blaming Ford and GMs problems on NAFTA and CAFTA is just wrong.

The Japanese are building US made cars with mostly US parts (more than GM) and succeeding. If Toyota can do it why not GM or Ford?

US auto makers suffer from the double whammy of poor/short sighted management and unions with nether the employees or company best interest at heart.

For a start…

1. You kill the bean counters and lawyers that actually run the companies.
2. Focus on long the long term not next week. This years bottom line is not the only reason a company exist
3. Lean down management so GM can make a decision and get it implemented in less than 5-10 years. So that products can be produce to meet the demand window instead of 3 years to late.
4. Actually build a product that can compete in the small car market don’t focus on cars with high profit margin.
5. The Unions must be forced to realize the company does not exist as their personal piggy bank.
6. Plants must work a full capacity… just like Toyota does not at 75% to 80% like GM and Ford. If they don’t they go. If the Union don't like it they can go as well.
7. Produce a top quality product… not excuses.

Never happen.

Posted: 1/24/2006 12:21:18 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Steve, what's your solution to bringing high-paying manufacturing jobs back to America? You know, the high-paying jobs that can compete favorably with China, India, SE Asia, et al?

Higher corporate taxes? High tariffs? Government control of free markets?
$20/hour minimum wage? More enviromental laws? More socialism?

Let the free markets decide where we buy our cars from.

Tarriffs!

If it's crossing a border then tax it. Repeal NAFTA, repeal CAFTA and tax anything that rolls or floats into this country. If corporations want to sell products in the richest country in the world then they will have to build them here. This was how Reagan saved the American auto industry in the 80's and this is what has forced the Japanese to open plants in the US. Americans who want to work will have jobs, workers will be in more demand so salaries will rise, consumers will have more money which will the will spend and invest causing profits and investment capital to increase. Everybody wins by protecting our markets and our economy. What we are doing now is making the environment more favorable for the corporations and less favorable for the employee/consumer and our economy is showing the results.

Posted: 1/24/2006 12:24:01 PM EDT

[#15]

I'll help them when they start making better quality cars.

If I ever got another truck, it would be Toyota before any of the "big 1" truck makers.

Posted: 1/24/2006 12:25:05 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Steve, what's your solution to bringing high-paying manufacturing jobs back to America? You know, the high-paying jobs that can compete favorably with China, India, SE Asia, et al?

Higher corporate taxes? High tariffs? Government control of free markets?
$20/hour minimum wage? More enviromental laws? More socialism?

Let the free markets decide where we buy our cars from.

Tarriffs!

If it's crossing a border then tax it. Repeal NAFTA, repeal CAFTA and tax anything that rolls or floats into this country. If corporations want to sell products in the richest country in the world then they will have to build them here. This was how Reagan saved the American auto industry in the 80's and this is what has forced the Japanese to open plants in the US. Americans who want to work will have jobs, workers will be in more demand so salaries will rise, consumers will have more money which will the will spend and invest causing profits and investment capital to increase. Everybody wins by protecting our markets and our economy. What we are doing now is making the environment more favorable for the corporations and less favorable for the employee/consumer and our economy is showing the results.

NAFTA and CAFTA has nothing to do with US auto makers problems… their problems started LONG before NAFTA and CAFTA and using NAFTA and CAFTA as a fall guy is NOT going to help anything.

NAFTA and CAFTA in this context is the same as the "usual suspects" in Casablanca.

Posted: 1/24/2006 12:25:55 PM EDT

[#17]

I've always been in favor of the US mirroring the very same trade laws other countries apply to us, such as tarriffs. Not that it'd really do a damn thing to help Ford or GM, but it would help in the job markets that are going overseas purely on a cost basis.

Posted: 1/24/2006 12:26:16 PM EDT

[#18]

Tarriffs are not the solution. Other countries would respond by slapping our goods with tarriffs too. Don't forge that even though we run a defecit we still are the worlds largest exporter and you risk hurting our exports with tarriffs.

Posted: 1/24/2006 12:26:57 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Quoted:
It's kinda of odd..Ford and GM, Floundering in debt, failing their arms about screaming for help...Yet, when NAFTA was voted in, They both tripped over themselves running to Mexico...At the same time, The Japs, bulit plants here, put Americans to work (with few, if any layoffs) at a wages, benefits comparable to a UAW member, buy parts and sub assemblys from American manfacturers and generally build a better product. I worked at Honda in Marysville for a outside contractor (I'm a pipefitter) and I saw how they treat their people, hell they even invited us in to use their cafeteria, This may not sound like much to many of you, But, it means alot when you work outside all day. but I've also worked in a couple of Ford plants as well,we were told to stay out of their cafeteria...or get fired, this came from the UAW, and plant management...Nice people.. The Honda people were treated well, everyone who worked there really liked it, The shops were clean and it was clear they took pride in what they were building, My observations at Ford were just the opposite, Alot acted like they could give a rats less...I'd would've fired them all. The Honda's I see from Marysville are I think about a 90% made in America car...Go look at A GM, Ford lot, see where the parts come from. The UAW and thier stance on health care is going to do them in, I do believe that Ford and GM will file for bankruptcy protection soon, the UAW will have to make a choice.. start paying a large protion of their own health care like everybody else, or get booted out alltogether,and get nothing. They'll fold... But as far as the orginial question, No..No goverment support. At least Chrysler paid the govt back... I doubt Ford or GM would....The Govt. dosen't need to be the Auto making business.

You have to take into account the reason that the Japanese (and Saturn too) are treating their employees so well. They are doing it to prevent the Unions from getting in. If the Japanese did not have to worry about employees voting to organize and join the UAW, then I'd be willing to bet that they would not be so generous.

I'm not saying that the Unions haven't screwed up the auto industry, becuase I believe that they have. The Unions have gone too far, gotten too greedy and wound up cutting their own throats. But the unions did alot of good too. Before the unions there was rampant abuse of employees in the workplace (especially in the auto industry). The unions put an end to that and negotiated better wages for their members.

I know everything you're saying...I'm a UNION pipefitter....Building trades unions and compamy oriented unions are compleatly diffrent... If for example I decide to do a poor job, call in sick all the time, leave early, fuck off at every chance I got...I'd get fired before lunch... The UAW DID have a place in the Auto indusrty at one time....since WWII, they've gotten fat, lazy stupid, and somehow managed to put in place work rules to protect those who either won't work or who can't perform the task at hand. This is part of the problem. Upper managment deserves it's fair share of the blame as well, many of them are fat, lazy stupid and way,way,way, overpaid. Vehicle designs have been for the most part, boring, and sales reflect that, not to mention quality...People don't like cars that have to go to the dealer to be fixed, under warranty or not. The idea of making a shitty car and getting rich selling parts is a stupid one at best. And that's the line of thinking that the big three need to shake. Honda has quality standards for their subcontractors..they check every batch of parts that come in, if they don't meet honda's quality standards they are warned.. 2 more warnings and that sub is dropped.People will remember a car that had few,if any problems much longer, than they will one that is a piece of shit, and cost them alot of money. GM and Ford, and the UAW had better wake up.

Posted: 1/24/2006 12:26:59 PM EDT

[#20]

wee socialism!!!

Posted: 1/24/2006 12:27:37 PM EDT

[#21]

Yes, buy as many Toyota Tacomas as possible, they're made in California.

<-------------------- I'm doing my share

Posted: 1/24/2006 12:30:23 PM EDT

[#22]

I think until they can produce a quality, attractive, affordable car, they deserve to go belly up.

I'm so sick of the cookie-cutter soccermom econobox crap it makes me puke.

What ever happenned to Americas passion for cool automobiles ???

Not to mention, most all new cars and trucks require a small mortgage to purchase.
Six year, seven year loans, high interest rates, inflated sticker prices, upside-down financing, horrible depreciation, etc...

I will NEVER buy another new vehicle as long as I live.

As unfortunate as it may be for the workers, they too, along with the unions share the responsibility for the downfall of the automakers...

Personally, I hope they all go belly-up.

Posted: 1/24/2006 12:30:24 PM EDT

[#23]

Another thing with tarriffs is how can you slap a tarriff on a toyota car made in the U.S.?

Posted: 1/24/2006 12:30:44 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Steve, what's your solution to bringing high-paying manufacturing jobs back to America? You know, the high-paying jobs that can compete favorably with China, India, SE Asia, et al?

Higher corporate taxes? High tariffs? Government control of free markets?
$20/hour minimum wage? More enviromental laws? More socialism?

Let the free markets decide where we buy our cars from.

Yea the point is...

NAFTA and CAFTA are a smoke screen it is NOT the problem… and has NOTHING to do with the real menace CHINA. Blaming Ford and GMs problems on NAFTA and CAFTA is just wrong.

The Japanese are building US made cars with mostly US parts (more than GM) and succeeding. If Toyota can do it why not GM or Ford?

US auto makers suffer from the double whammy of poor/short sighted management and unions with nether the employees or company best interest at heart.

For a start…

1. You kill the bean counters and lawyers that actually run the companies.
2. Focus on long the long term not next week. This years bottom line is not the only reason a company exist
3. Lean down management so GM can make a decision and get it implemented in less than 5-10 years. So that products can be produce to meet the demand window instead of 3 years to late.
4. Actually build a product that can compete in the small car market don’t focus on cars with high profit margin.
5. The Unions must be forced to realize the company does not exist as their personal piggy bank.
6. Plants must work a full capacity… just like Toyota does not at 75% to 80% like GM and Ford. If they don’t they go. If the Union don't like it they can go as well.
7. Produce a top quality product… not excuses.

Never happen.

No, it won't ever happen.

The government is going to bail out the Ford and GM and they'll continue to operate business as usual.

The only break that the automakers may get is if we ever wind up with socialized medicine then the automakers (and corporations as a whole) will get to stop paying for medical insurance, and the load will be shifted to the worker/consumer.

Posted: 1/24/2006 12:34:42 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

No, it won't ever happen.

The government is going to bail out the Ford and GM and they'll continue to operate business as usual.

The only break that the automakers may get is if we ever wind up with socialized medicine then the automakers (and corporations as a whole) will get to stop paying for medical insurance, and the load will be shifted to the worker/consumer.

Socialized medicine is inevitable at this point, not a matter of if but when. The left wants it, corporate America wants it, those that don’t know better want it. It is coming.

Posted: 1/24/2006 12:37:11 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Another thing with tarriffs is how can you slap a tarriff on a toyota car made in the U.S.?

Why would you want to slap a tarriff on a Toyota made in the US? You're removing the incentive for Toyota to compete in the market by opening plants in the US. If the build them here, then they don't need to be paying tarriffs. If Ford and GM can't compete with an American made Toyota then to hell with them.

Posted: 1/24/2006 12:38:37 PM EDT

[#27]

Someone mentioned tarriff as the answer to the problem. That is where that came from.

Posted: 1/24/2006 12:39:36 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Yes, buy as many Toyota Tacomas as possible, they're made in California.

<-------------------- I'm doing my share

2005 Xterra. Built in Tennessee by AMERICANS. Flawless fit and finish, solid as a tank, runs like a Swiss watch. Those AMERICANS that built it did a DAMN FINE JOB.

I think 65% of the parts were from the US/Canada.

Let Ford and GM collapse, get rid of the unions and starting building good shit. People will buy quality at a fair price.

(edit to change state from CA to TN).

Posted: 1/24/2006 12:41:38 PM EDT

[#29]

Hey, I did not know Nissan had a plant in GA. I'm from here. Where is it at?

Posted: 1/24/2006 12:44:29 PM EDT

[#30]

Should We Help US Auto Makers To Survive?

Nope, all automobile and other manufacturing should be moved to China. We should purchase Chinese goods and not make anything here. We should have a service economy instead of a balanced economy.

I can't wait for the cheap Chinese car to decimate the japanese automakers.

Posted: 1/24/2006 12:45:35 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Quoted:

No, it won't ever happen.

The government is going to bail out the Ford and GM and they'll continue to operate business as usual.

The only break that the automakers may get is if we ever wind up with socialized medicine then the automakers (and corporations as a whole) will get to stop paying for medical insurance, and the load will be shifted to the worker/consumer.

Socialized medicine is inevitable at this point, not a matter of if but when. The left wants it, corporate America wants it, those that don’t know better want it. It is coming.

I think that you are right, and I think it is going to be a disaster. I don't know about the efficency of other nation's socialized medicine programs, but I'm sure that ours will lose money at an incredible rate. I'm also sure that it'll cause health care costs to skyrocket, taxes to sky rocket and the middle class to go broke.

Posted: 1/24/2006 12:47:30 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Hey, I did not know Nissan had a plant in GA. I'm from here. Where is it at?

You know, I would have *sworn* the sticker on it when purchased said GA but Google says it's made in TN (Smyrna).

I'll have to go dig the sticker out and see.

Posted: 1/24/2006 12:49:56 PM EDT

[#33]

I also think the US automakers waste INCREDIBLE amounts of money on silly nonsense, and "concept" cars... These amount to nothing more than an engineers' wet dream, and wasted spending.

When they design, manufacure and market CRAP like this, I totally understand why they are going broke...

Posted: 1/24/2006 12:52:48 PM EDT

[#34]

DO any of you UNDERSTAND that almost 1/3 of the cost of a car is because of the LAWYERS and the LAW SUITS that are won against the auto companies? Want to lower the price of a car by 1/3? Get rid of the lawyers!

Posted: 1/24/2006 12:54:55 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Yes, buy as many Toyota Tacomas as possible, they're made in California.

<-------------------- I'm doing my share

img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/airwolf144/DSC00796a.jpg

2005 Xterra. Built in Tennessee by AMERICANS. Flawless fit and finish, solid as a tank, runs like a Swiss watch. Those AMERICANS that built it did a DAMN FINE JOB.

I think 65% of the parts were from the US/Canada.

Let Ford and GM collapse, get rid of the unions and starting building good shit. People will buy quality at a fair price.

(edit to change state from CA to TN).

We have a neighbor of ours that has sent back TWO Xterra's with the lemon law on his side.

For me, if the profits stay in America, it is an American car. If the profits go overseas, then it is not a American made car.

ETA: I really don't care about that when it comes to cars. It is too large of a debt to buy a peice of poo-poo.

Posted: 1/24/2006 1:02:37 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

DO any of you UNDERSTAND that almost 1/3 of the cost of a car is because of the LAWYERS and the LAW SUITS that are won against the auto companies? Want to lower the price of a car by 1/3? Get rid of the lawyers!

Normally, I support tort reform and limiting lawsuits. However, in the case of Ford I think that alot of the people who sued over the tread separation issue on Exploders had a right to go after them. Especially given the fact that Ford stood by Firestone even when it was obvious that their tires had flaws.

Posted: 1/24/2006 2:30:23 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

DO any of you UNDERSTAND that almost 1/3 of the cost of a car is because of the LAWYERS and the LAW SUITS that are won against the auto companies? Want to lower the price of a car by 1/3? Get rid of the lawyers!

Wow, I never seen or heard of these figures before.
Where did you get these figures?

Posted: 1/24/2006 2:35:18 PM EDT

[#38]

Why not?

Reagan already established a trend by bailing out Iacocca and Chrysler back in 1981 and 1982. How can you now say no to GM and Ford?

Same deal. Loan them the money but make sure it gets paid back.

Posted: 1/24/2006 2:36:55 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Loan them the money but make sure it gets paid back.

And if they don't?

Posted: 1/24/2006 2:42:24 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Loan them the money but make sure it gets paid back.

And if they don't?

Government------>

<--------Automakers

"You'd better not do that again, I'm serious this time...damnit"

Posted: 1/25/2006 2:25:35 AM EDT

[#41]

As usual Boortz chimes in and nails it, see http://boortz.com/nuze/200601/01242006.html#ford

Many years ago the UAW developed a game plan for bleeding the automakers dry. They would pick one of the big-three, either Ford, Chrysler or General Motors. They would then hit the target automaker with a demand for huge pay and benefit increases. That automaker would balk, and the UAW would go out on strike. Finally, after huge loses, the automaker would cave. A new contract would be signed, and the unions would then force that contract on the other automakers. Over the years these contracts created a burden on the automakers that could not be sustained. In some cases these automakers can't even lay off employees without having to continue their paychecks years into the future.

Posted: 1/25/2006 2:33:05 AM EDT

[#42]

Hell no, the job of the government isn't to make sure companies survive through subsidies. If we really cared about the auto worker, we would demand that the government remove the barriers that strangle the manufacturing base.

Posted: 1/25/2006 2:42:24 AM EDT

[#43]

Hasn't that question already been answered? They are going under because 'we' don't buy their cars. America has spoken.

<------Not me btw.

Posted: 1/25/2006 2:55:18 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
Hasn't that question already been answered? They are going under because 'we' don't buy their cars. America has spoken.

<------Not me btw.

I see plenty of big american made vehicles on the road, economy cars too.

Posted: 1/25/2006 3:05:53 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Hell no, the job of the government isn't to make sure companies survive through subsidies. If we really cared about the auto worker, we would demand that the government remove the barriers that strangle the manufacturing base.

Just like how they said NO to the airlines!!

Posted: 1/25/2006 3:08:13 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Hell no, the job of the government isn't to make sure companies survive through subsidies. If we really cared about the auto worker, we would demand that the government remove the barriers that strangle the manufacturing base.

Just like how they said NO to the airlines!!

They shouldn't have done that either, and lets through in Am-track

Posted: 1/25/2006 3:18:22 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
Hasn't that question already been answered? They are going under because 'we' don't buy their cars. America has spoken.

EXACTLY what I've been saying...

People are sick and tired of $40-50,000 SUV's, $40,000 Pickup trucks, and $30,000 passenger cars.

Posted: 1/25/2006 3:27:14 AM EDT

[#48]

NO!

How about american consumers help american automakers survive by buying american made vehicles. In the past there was a serious difference in quality, after being in the auto industry for a few years I seriously do not see it now.

I cannot see why people pay more for a car made by a foreign company when the difference in quality does not justify the cost difference.

BUY AMERICAN!

Posted: 1/25/2006 3:32:01 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
before we go on a "fucking japs, nuke 'em til they glow" binge,

That wasn't my intent.

they tax the hell out of everything. but yeah, they are very protectionist. so are the white countries in europe.

Indeed.

My point was that the "free" market isn't free. America doesn't tax imports like other nations do to protect their own industries. In the global marketplace American industry operates at a disadvantage from the word go because we are probably the only nation on earth that believes in truly free trade.

Other nations don't give a damn and take measures to protect their industries from competition.

i'd gladly buy an american car (a car designed by an american-based company) if it was as reliable as a japanese car.

Japanese cars as a whole are no more reliable than American cars as a whole. Specific models in each category can be found to be wonderfully reliable, and can also be found to be junk. Take the Accord. Lots of people like the Accord, and it has a good reputation in the market for quality.

But just a couple of years ago the state of New Jersey sued Honda on behalf of its citizens who had purchased Accords with bad transmissions that died after only 20,000 miles. Worse, Honda was refusing to honor their warranty and was forcing people to pay tons of money for new transmissions that were often as bad or worse than the originals.

Of course, nobody heard about this because the national media doesn't report the foibles of Honda like it does with GM or Ford.

Much of the "feeling" out there about "American" cars and "Japanese" cars is just that: Feeling based on information that is no longer accurate about the market.

Posted: 1/25/2006 3:33:12 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
No. But every asshole piece of government interference in the market should go the fuck away. Screw Ralph Nader.

No corporate welfare for any industry, but government should get the hell out of the way and let them do business instead of hammer fucking them.

"Seperation of Church and State"? Hell, we need a "Seperation of State and Markets".

Good luck with that.

Government regulation of markets is as old as the industrial age itself. It isn't going away.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Should We Help US Auto Makers To Survive? (Page 2 of 3)

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