Shooting through a closed door? - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Shooting through a closed door? (Page 2 of 5)

Posted: 12/23/2005 4:44:43 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't think he should have waited, what if the perp was armed and as the door came open he fires too?

The defender has the advantage of cover, surprise and the attacker has to come through a known choke point.

Train your weapon on the threashold from behind cover, when the door is breached tale 1/100th of a second to make sure there is not a troop of girl scouts behind the supect, then dump him.

Otherwise you're shooting someone for attempted burglary and doing so in a reckless manner by not knowing whats behind the target.

There is no such thing as cover in most apartment homes! Concealment maybe, cover, more than likely not! Sounds like a weapons free situation to me!

ETA: Already been covered! Carry-on!

Posted: 12/23/2005 4:51:11 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Once he is inside the house, or even steps over the threashold, then Cali law presumes you had a reasonable fear.

However standing outside kicking the door, no presumption is made. You will have to explain your actions to the grand jury including what information you had that would lead a reasonable person to believe they were at risk of death or GBI. "I thought he was going to kills me" or "I thought he was going to rape me" is not enought, there must be specific information that would make a reasonable person have that same fear.

Personally, I dont think simply kicking the door, which has not opened, creates a reasonable fear of anything except burglary or tresspass. It would be a different story if he is hoding a weapon, have greater numbers, disparity of force, masks, threatening statements, ect.

You are absolutely wrong on that point.

Posted: 12/23/2005 4:51:19 PM EDT

[#3]

i was just reading NDs laws about self defense and use of force, i think if somebody were trying to kick down my door i would not have time to tell them to go away, i would take it as a direct threat to my childs life and would send a couple through the door. I think that i would be ok in doing that. I love the part where it says a person does not have to retreat from his dwelling or place of work, none of this running to safty to avoid killing a badguy for me.

Posted: 12/23/2005 5:02:54 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
If you watch the video in the above link the suspected burglar had a lengthy criminal history record including a charge for burglarizing his own mother's house. The Trooper may face some departmental disciplinary action but I doubt he will be indicted by a GJ for the shooting.

- dont see how the department could take any action against him.

Posted: 12/23/2005 5:03:24 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Once he is inside the house, or even steps over the threashold, then Cali law presumes you had a reasonable fear.

However standing outside kicking the door, no presumption is made. You will have to explain your actions to the grand jury including what information you had that would lead a reasonable person to believe they were at risk of death or GBI. "I thought he was going to kills me" or "I thought he was going to rape me" is not enought, there must be specific information that would make a reasonable person have that same fear.

Personally, I dont think simply kicking the door, which has not opened, creates a reasonable fear of anything except burglary or tresspass. It would be a different story if he is hoding a weapon, have greater numbers, disparity of force, masks, threatening statements, ect.

You are absolutely wrong on that point.

you need to read the penal code again. start CPC 198.5 and the associated case law.

Posted: 12/23/2005 5:05:21 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Personally, i think he should have waited until the suspect breached the door. He wasnt taking fire, and with the door closed it was impossible to know what was in the background behind the suspect.

Depends on your state laws.... In WI, for example, the standard is 'a reasonable person must believe that he would be in danger of death or great bodily harm, in the same situation'... There are places in this state where the DA will agree with shooting thru a door, and there are places where you just killed 'mama's good little boy' and so on...

Also depends on the progress the BG is making with the door...

And weather or not the 'BG' might not be a bad guy (right or wrong, if you shoot a cop trying to serve a warrant...)...

Posted: 12/23/2005 5:14:04 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Once he is inside the house, or even steps over the threashold, then Cali law presumes you had a reasonable fear.

However standing outside kicking the door, no presumption is made. You will have to explain your actions to the grand jury including what information you had that would lead a reasonable person to believe they were at risk of death or GBI. "I thought he was going to kills me" or "I thought he was going to rape me" is not enought, there must be specific information that would make a reasonable person have that same fear.

Personally, I dont think simply kicking the door, which has not opened, creates a reasonable fear of anything except burglary or tresspass. It would be a different story if he is hoding a weapon, have greater numbers, disparity of force, masks, threatening statements, ect.

You are absolutely wrong on that point.

you need to read the penal code again. start CPC 198.5 and the associated case law.

I am very familiar with the California Penal Code thank you very much. I say it would be legal and the right thing to do in California to shoot someone who was trying to break down your door with you and or your family inside. If the guy is dead who is telling the story? The person who lived!
If you are in fear, then you are in fear. I find it reasonable to be in fear for your life if someone is trying to break into your house with you inside. I will say it would be smart to yell through the door something like, "I have a gun and will shoot you, go away" If after that he still continues that is all the better and I believe your fear would be based on reason.

But what if they did not understand you because they only speak Punjabi?
What if he is deaf?

If you did not know he was deaf or spoke Punjabi your fear is still reasonable and the shoot is good!
There is nothing in California law that says they have to gain entry before you can defend yourself.
You also do not have to retreat.

Posted: 12/23/2005 5:14:11 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Let a civilian shoot someone dead through a door and see what happens to them. I think it would be almost impossible to make a jury believe that any reasonable person would consider their life in immiment danger when the door hasn't even been breached.

Agreed, if a citizen executed this form of self defense, they probably would get manslaughter at the least. But of course, citizens don't get to hide behind a shield or a door as an excuse.

And for every LEO that says it was ok, I bet you would be taking a citizen to jail for the exact situation.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. He'll get off because he's a cop. If I'd done the same thing, in the same state, I'd be getting porked in the lockup right now, and looking at serious charges.

Posted: 12/23/2005 5:15:05 PM EDT

[#9]

Being as I live in Florida, I say good shoot. I do not have to run and hide to defend myself, try to kick in my door, and they WILL be carting you off in a bag.

Posted: 12/23/2005 5:21:36 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Once he is inside the house, or even steps over the threashold, then Cali law presumes you had a reasonable fear.

However standing outside kicking the door, no presumption is made. You will have to explain your actions to the grand jury including what information you had that would lead a reasonable person to believe they were at risk of death or GBI. "I thought he was going to kills me" or "I thought he was going to rape me" is not enought, there must be specific information that would make a reasonable person have that same fear.

Personally, I dont think simply kicking the door, which has not opened, creates a reasonable fear of anything except burglary or tresspass. It would be a different story if he is hoding a weapon, have greater numbers, disparity of force, masks, threatening statements, ect.

You are absolutely wrong on that point.

you need to read the penal code again. start CPC 198.5 and the associated case law.

I am very familiar with the California Penal Code thank you very much. I say it would be legal and the right thing to do in California to shoot someone who was trying to break down your door with you and or your family inside. If the guy is dead who is telling the story? The person who lived!
If you are in fear, then you are in fear. I find it reasonable to be in fear for your life if someone is trying to break into your house with you inside. I will say it would be smart to yell through the door something like, "I have a gun and will shoot you, go away" If after that he still continues that is all the better and I believe your fear would be based on reason.

But what if they did not understand you because they only speak Punjabi?
What if he is deaf?

If you did not know he was deaf or spoke Punjabi your fear is still reasonable and the shoot is good!
There is nothing in California law that says they have to gain entry before you can defend yourself.
You also do not have to retreat.

True. but per 198.5 if you wait until he actually breaches the threashold you have a presumption of innocense that you will not enjoy if you shoot him through the door.

Posted: 12/23/2005 5:22:36 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Quoted:
If you watch the video in the above link the suspected burglar had a lengthy criminal history record including a charge for burglarizing his own mother's house. The Trooper may face some departmental disciplinary action but I doubt he will be indicted by a GJ for the shooting.
- dont see how the department could take any action against him.

It's hard to say without having a copy of the ISP procedure manual. As you know departmental procedures are frequently more restrictive then state law as it pertains to the use of deadly physical force. An example would be firing at/into a MV which many departments prohibit even though it might be permitted under the state laws that govern the use of DPF.

Posted: 12/23/2005 5:25:32 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you watch the video in the above link the suspected burglar had a lengthy criminal history record including a charge for burglarizing his own mother's house. The Trooper may face some departmental disciplinary action but I doubt he will be indicted by a GJ for the shooting.
- dont see how the department could take any action against him.

It's hard to say without having a copy of the ISP procedure manual. As you know departmental procedures are frequently more restrictive then state law as it pertains to the use of deadly physical force. An example would be firing at/into a MV which many departments prohibit even though it might be permitted under the state laws that govern the use of DPF.

- However you are mixing on-duty regulations with what happens off-duty. I dont know of any departments that have regulations in place regarding when lethal force can be used by a LEO when he is off-duty

Posted: 12/23/2005 5:41:51 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
However you are mixing on-duty regulations with what happens off-duty. I dont know of any departments that have regulations in place regarding when lethal force can be used by a LEO when he is off-duty

In some departments you are never really considered "off-duty" and are still subject to departmental regulations (especially in the use of DFP) as well as possible disciplinary action. I know of at least two departments that require compliance with some departmental regulations and even go so far as to prohibit officers from participating in certain activities. In addition the ISP Trooper used his service weapon to shoot the dirtbag.

Posted: 12/23/2005 5:46:00 PM EDT

[#14]

mmmmmmmmmm, don't know. Guess we'll see how it all works out.

Anyways, where was it said that the agency was talking about action against him?

Posted: 12/23/2005 5:54:16 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Being as I live in Florida, I say good shoot. I do not have to run and hide to defend myself, try to kick in my door, and they WILL be carting you off in a bag.

Just one more menace to society in a body bag.

Mission accomplished I say.

It ain't like in the movies, if you are forced to fight a criminal in the commission of a felony, never fight fair because he damn sure won't !

And you can take that to the bank my friend.

Posted: 12/23/2005 5:57:06 PM EDT

[#16]

Sometimes, when the chips go down, the "rules" go out.

Posted: 12/23/2005 6:04:43 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Sometimes, when the chips go down, the "rules" go out.

Later, after the trial, the dick goes in.

Remind me not to pound on any of your doors if I smell smoke or hear screams or cries for help.
He's a cop, I assume with some training, and he shot through a door. He should at least be fired.
I'm sure the civil nightmare has yet to begin.

Authorities said Wilson, whose home had been burglarized last month, picked up his duty pistol and approached the door. Hixenbaugh began to kick the door in an apparent attempt to break in, and Wilson fired two shots through the door, hitting Hixenbaugh at least once, police said.

Where did the other bullet go? 911, retreat from the door, or at least that's what they tell all us scumbag civies to do. Guy comes in, boom. What if the assclown at the door was waiting with a shotgun for him to answer? Fucktard cop, IMHO.

Posted: 12/23/2005 6:08:23 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
He should at least be fired.

- WTF is up with people and this attitude? The guy is right as rain and tards like you are calling for his job.

Where did the other bullet go? 911, retreat from the door, or at least that's what they tell all us scumbag civies to do. Guy comes in, boom. What if the assclown at the door was waiting with a shotgun for him to answer? Fucktard cop, IMHO.

- Once again, my above comments fits you to a freaking tee

Posted: 12/23/2005 6:41:41 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Let a civilian shoot someone dead through a door and see what happens to them. I think it would be almost impossible to make a jury believe that any reasonable person would consider their life in immiment danger when the door hasn't even been breached.

The asshat was wrong to shoot someone that he couldn't even see, through a door. Take up a position with good cover and the moment the door fails and pops open and you have the chance to positively identify the target (what if it had been a cop executing a no-knock warrant on the wrong house, for example?) then let 'em have it....

A civilian would be arrested, charged and tried. If he was found not guilty, he would still be out 25K for his lawyer and a lot of heartache. Civil suit by the victim's famliy to follow!

Posted: 12/23/2005 6:46:17 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
A civilian would be arrested, charged and tried.

- not always true. As has already been mentioned on this thread and in several other recent threads, a non-LEO shooting doesnt equal an automatic arrest.

Posted: 12/23/2005 6:52:49 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Quoted:
A civilian would be arrested, charged and tried.

- not always true. As has already been mentioned on this thread and in several other recent threads, a non-LEO shooting doesnt equal an automatic arrest.

Ever heard of a grand jury no bill???

Posted: 12/23/2005 6:56:44 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A civilian would be arrested, charged and tried.

- not always true. As has already been mentioned on this thread and in several other recent threads, a non-LEO shooting doesnt equal an automatic arrest.

Ever heard of a grand jury no bill???

thats what you get when signing up with a new cell phone company right?

Posted: 12/23/2005 7:11:07 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Let a civilian shoot someone dead through a door and see what happens to them. I think it would be almost impossible to make a jury believe that any reasonable person would consider their life in immiment danger when the door hasn't even been breached.
- Has happened here in NC with no arrest nor criminal charges.

When I took my CCW class we were told that doing that was legal in NC. The Deputy said, "If someone is trying to kick your door in, He ain't there to borrow a cup of suger."

Vulcan94

Posted: 12/23/2005 7:30:50 PM EDT

[#24]

It is a good shoot until some person in a car crash is banging on your door to get someone to help him and you shoot them. There is also a big difference between banging and kicking on a door and trying to kick a door in. Constant knocking and banging would be different from one big bang every few seconds.

Having said that. If I was awakened late at night by someone banging on my door seeming to try to break in, I warn them away and they keep trying.

Bang.

Posted: 12/23/2005 7:35:09 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Quoted:
- WTF is up with people and this attitude? The guy is right as rain and tards like you are calling for his job.

Nah. I just expect more from people who have the power of life and death over us peons.
ETA: Trained to use judgement.

- Once again, my above comments fits you to a freaking tee

Hixenbaugh began to kick the door in an apparent attempt to break in, and Wilson fired two shots through the door, hitting Hixenbaugh at least once, police said.

Cool. If I could go by the standard of "apparent", I could reduce the number a crackheads, polsters, Jehovah's Witnesses and other scum around here. I guess my threshold of being in fear for my life is a little higher than others.

ETA: So, dude knocks on the door. Cop has time to grab his gun and scope out said dude. Dude starts to kick the door, gets a bullet. Fucktard cop. Kicking a door (regardless of the legal issues) is a WEAK excuse to kill someone. Call me a 'tard if you need to, it's OK.

ETA again: Dude coming through my door has a standard doorway and limited options. Unless it's Superman at the door and and Spiderman at the windows, I have a large number of options. You that afraid or limited that your first option is to shoot?

ETA powered by beer: Assuming that I grab a gun to answer the door where I live:
Knock Knock
Have time to draw/grab weapon, observe doorknocker from secret location
Have time to approach door to visit with unknown doorknocker
Doorknocker becomes doorkicker
Door withstands initial effort to kick open.
Bang, bang!

I don't know about you, but that's weak.

Posted: 12/23/2005 7:43:22 PM EDT

[#26]

Shooting through a door is irresponsible. It may be legal but it is still irresponsible.

This officer needs lots of additional training before he is allowed to handle firearms again.

Posted: 12/23/2005 7:49:38 PM EDT

[#27]

I think there going to tear this officer apart for this.
He remained quiet before shooting ,if I understand the article correctly.
He remained silent and let the guy keep trying to kick the door in and then shot through the door.
He could have yelled stop, I am a police officer.
I think he's going down

Posted: 12/23/2005 7:50:26 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Call me a 'tard if you need to, it's OK.

You are a Tard!

Posted: 12/23/2005 7:56:36 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Call me a 'tard if you need to, it's OK.

You are a Tard!

Thanks! As long as you dont

on my door, it's all good.

Posted: 12/23/2005 7:58:34 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you watch the video in the above link the suspected burglar had a lengthy criminal history record including a charge for burglarizing his own mother's house. The Trooper may face some departmental disciplinary action but I doubt he will be indicted by a GJ for the shooting.
- dont see how the department could take any action against him.

It's hard to say without having a copy of the ISP procedure manual. As you know departmental procedures are frequently more restrictive then state law as it pertains to the use of deadly physical force. An example would be firing at/into a MV which many departments prohibit even though it might be permitted under the state laws that govern the use of DPF.

Yep.

See Long Beach Vs. Long Beach POA and Long Beach Vs. Peterson. Cases in which officer was held liable for lawfull force which although lawful, was in vioation of policy.

Posted: 12/23/2005 8:00:45 PM EDT

[#31]

I like the message is sends....try to kick in a door, you may get dead.

Posted: 12/23/2005 8:01:31 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Shooting through a door is irresponsible. It may be legal but it is still irresponsible.

Pretty much sums it up.

Posted: 12/23/2005 8:20:39 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Indiana Trooper Fatally Shot Intruder
Story by theindychannel.com

An off-duty Indiana State Police trooper fatally shot a man who was trying to break into the trooper's east-side Indianapolis home Monday morning, police said.

Police said Trooper Joel D. Wilson, 39, was alone inside the home in the 2100 block of Autumn Creek Drive when Theodore E. Hixenbaugh knocked on the front door at about 11:40 a.m. Wilson saw Hixenbaugh from a place Hixenbaugh couldn't see, and Wilson didn't know who Hixenbaugh was, police said.

Authorities said Wilson, whose home had been burglarized last month, picked up his duty pistol and approached the door. Hixenbaugh began to kick the door in an apparent attempt to break in, and Wilson fired two shots through the door, hitting Hixenbaugh at least once, police said.

Hixenbaugh, 22, was taken to Wishard Memorial Hospital, where he was pronounced dead at 12:11 p.m.

Wilson has been with the state police for more than six years.

State police are investigating the incident.

Authorities said Hixenbaugh had been living in the Noblesville area with his girlfriend. Police said Hixenbaugh's family didn't know the girlfriend's name or how to contact her.

State police said they were interested in speaking with the girlfriend. They said she could call state police at (800) 582-8440 and ask to speak with Detective Dan Hearon.

Personally, i think he should have waited until the suspect breached the door. He wasnt taking fire, and with the door closed it was impossible to know what was in the background behind the suspect.

Now now , Monday morning quarterbacking is always easier right?
The attempted home invasion might have been so violent in nature that he used the right force at the right time.
I don't think he should have waited, what if the perp was armed and as the door came open he fires too?
Fuck that, the last man standing is the winner!

+1, I have to agree with jrzy here (that's a first, I know), I can see the other points, but there's no way to know the exact situation that this person was facing without having actually been there.

Posted: 12/23/2005 8:32:55 PM EDT

[#34]

Good thing it wasn't the fire department.

+1 on waiting for the door to come down to make sure of the target. I want the BG to not know that I'm inside along with my buddies Smith and Wesson waiting to kick his ass. If the shots had missed the BG might have done counter battery fire back and the cop's original position.

Does Indiana have a home is your castle law?

Posted: 12/23/2005 8:33:04 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
be sure of your target and beyond

If someone's kicking your door in... they are your target. And you know where they are.

Good shoot.

Posted: 12/23/2005 8:34:08 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
+1, I have to agree with jrzy here (that's a first, I know), I can see the other points, but there's no way to know the exact situation that this person was facing without having actually been there.

I'd guess it will be even more difficult, since they were both facing a door.

Posted: 12/23/2005 8:42:15 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Quoted:
be sure of your target and beyond

If someone's kicking your door in... they are your target. And you know where they are.

Good shoot.

Sometimes the simplest answer is the best answer.
Bad guy tried to break in - bad guy now dead.
Case closed thank you all for playing kill the felon.

Posted: 12/23/2005 8:42:33 PM EDT

[#38]

Middle of the night,

No flashing red or blue lights,

I didn't invite whoever is trying to come in,

I Don't have any younguns,

Door is about to come off the hinges because someone is banging on it,

Guess I'm an irresponsible ass, cause I'd not hesitate to put rounds between the door frames. The law may eat me alive, but that's the way I'd do it, and who knows - maybe mine will be the case that changes North Carolina law.

Good thing is that I live close enough to the mountains to have a jury that would probably agree with me.

Posted: 12/23/2005 8:44:36 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Quoted:
be sure of your target and beyond

If someone's kicking your door in... they are your target. And you know where they are.

Good shoot.

Jeebus, yeah. Those window washers will know better next time. I heard something bang my window, I grabbed a gun and looked out from another window. Two fucking dudes were hanging there! Before taking any sort of time to evaluate what was happening, I blasted those fuckers right off the platform. Goddamn scum, turns out they were prior window washers! Had I backed up, called 91wash and awaited developments, turned out I would not be on the hook for a new window and two window-washers.

Posted: 12/23/2005 8:49:18 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
Middle of the night,

No flashing red or blue lights,

I didn't invite whoever is trying to come in,

I Don't have any younguns,

Door is about to come off the hinges because someone is banging on it,

Guess I'm an irresponsible ass, cause I'd not hesitate to put rounds between the door frames. The law may eat me alive, but that's the way I'd do it, and who knows - maybe mine will be the case that changes North Carolina law.

Good thing is that I live close enough to the mountains to have a jury that would probably agree with me.

Spend a bit more on the door?

Poor uncle dad was in the shine again, and I blasted him off the porch. Damn. The money I've wasted. Knockbang. Kickbang. Ringbang. Bangbang. Who needs lights, sights, and any sort of brain behind the gun.

Posted: 12/23/2005 8:50:36 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
be sure of your target and beyond

If someone's kicking your door in... they are your target. And you know where they are.

Good shoot.

Jeebus, yeah. Those windows washers will know better next time. I heard something bang my window, I grabbed a gun and looked out from another window. Two fucking dudes were hanging there! Before taking any sort of time to evaluate what was happening, I blasted those fuckers right off the platform. Goddamn scum, turns out they were prior window washers! Had I backed up, called 91wash and awaited developments, turned out I would not be on the hook for a new window and two window-washers.

You know you are deliberately down playing the extent of the home invasion to suit your post.
You and I weren't there and do not know what exactly went down.
No one was there except a guy who knew someone was breaking in.
Did you ever think he might have thought it was some scum bag he busted looking for revenge/
Who gives a fuck, he saw the guy and the guy was KICKING IN HIS FRONT DOOR, fuck the scum bag , he's dead , next time he won't try and break into someones house and maybe rape or kill them if discovered.
No wait he can't do any more crimes , he's fucking DEAD!

Posted: 12/23/2005 8:51:06 PM EDT

[#42]

No one knows how fast eveything happened except the officer involved. If the door showed after the shooting that the lock and hinges were still intact. He will have a hard time with this. Has any mentioned if he yelled anything before shooting threw the door.?

Posted: 12/23/2005 8:58:06 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

You now you are deliberately down playing the extent of the home invasion to suit your post.
You and I weren't there and do not know what exactly went down.
No one was there except a guy who knew someone was breaking in.
Did you ever think he might have thought it was some scum bag he busted looking for revenge/
Who gives a fuck, he saw the guy and the guy was KICKING IN HIS FRONT DOOR, fuck the scum bag , he's dead , next time he won't try and break into someones house and maybe rape or kill them if discovered.
No wait he can't do any more crimes , he's fucking DEAD!

Yeah, all for kicking a door. If YOU would shoot someone for doing the same, you need to re-eval.
He had time to ID the guy at the door. He had TIME. TIME vs a life, even if it's a scumbag. Good thing it was not some girlscout looking to collect cookie money. I will be happy to eat shit if it turns out that the published story is BS. This is a lawyers wet dream.

Posted: 12/23/2005 9:04:15 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
Quoted:

You now you are deliberately down playing the extent of the home invasion to suit your post.
You and I weren't there and do not know what exactly went down.
No one was there except a guy who knew someone was breaking in.
Did you ever think he might have thought it was some scum bag he busted looking for revenge/
Who gives a fuck, he saw the guy and the guy was KICKING IN HIS FRONT DOOR, fuck the scum bag , he's dead , next time he won't try and break into someones house and maybe rape or kill them if discovered.
No wait he can't do any more crimes , he's fucking DEAD!

Yeah, all for kicking a door. If YOU would shoot someone for doing the same, you need to re-eval.
He had time to ID the guy at the door. He had TIME. TIME vs a life, even if it's a scumbag. Good thing it was not some girlscout looking to collect cookie money. I will be happy to eat shit if it turns out that the published story is BS. This is a lawyers wet dream.

A reasonable, rational human being with no intent to do harm to another, should not attempt to kick a door to a residence down without the chance of getting him or herslef shot dead. Period.

Posted: 12/23/2005 9:21:11 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Personally, i think he should have waited until the suspect breached the door. He wasnt taking fire, and with the door closed it was impossible to know what was in the background behind the suspect.

He was in his own house, wtf do you think someone would try to break down the door for?

By then it might be too late to shooot.

Tell you what, when I lived in Dallas, a crazed guy tried to kick in the door of my apartment at 3am. My first reaction was to grab a bat and go out and beat him. Luckily my uncle stopped me before i got to the door. Turns out it was some guy that was drunk and he thought my apt was his girlfriend's opposite mine (confirmed the next day). You never know man, I would have at least given a verbal warning first.

The sound of racking a shotgun should have scared him away

Posted: 12/23/2005 9:23:49 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Middle of the night,

No flashing red or blue lights,

I didn't invite whoever is trying to come in,

I Don't have any younguns,

Door is about to come off the hinges because someone is banging on it,

Guess I'm an irresponsible ass, cause I'd not hesitate to put rounds between the door frames. The law may eat me alive, but that's the way I'd do it, and who knows - maybe mine will be the case that changes North Carolina law.

Good thing is that I live close enough to the mountains to have a jury that would probably agree with me.

Spend a bit more on the door?

Poor uncle dad was in the shine again, and I blasted him off the porch. Damn. The money I've wasted. Knockbang. Kickbang. Ringbang. Bangbang. Who needs lights, sights, and any sort of brain behind the gun.

GO BACK TO DU

Posted: 12/23/2005 9:24:19 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

You now you are deliberately down playing the extent of the home invasion to suit your post.
You and I weren't there and do not know what exactly went down.
No one was there except a guy who knew someone was breaking in.
Did you ever think he might have thought it was some scum bag he busted looking for revenge/
Who gives a fuck, he saw the guy and the guy was KICKING IN HIS FRONT DOOR, fuck the scum bag , he's dead , next time he won't try and break into someones house and maybe rape or kill them if discovered.
No wait he can't do any more crimes , he's fucking DEAD!

Yeah, all for kicking a door. If YOU would shoot someone for doing the same, you need to re-eval.
He had time to ID the guy at the door. He had TIME. TIME vs a life, even if it's a scumbag. Good thing it was not some girlscout looking to collect cookie money. I will be happy to eat shit if it turns out that the published story is BS. This is a lawyers wet dream.

A reasonable, rational human being with no intent to do harm to another, should not attempt to kick a door to a residence down without the chance of getting him or herslef shot dead. Period.

+1

Posted: 12/23/2005 9:27:24 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
Quoted:

You now you are deliberately down playing the extent of the home invasion to suit your post.
You and I weren't there and do not know what exactly went down.
No one was there except a guy who knew someone was breaking in.
Did you ever think he might have thought it was some scum bag he busted looking for revenge/
Who gives a fuck, he saw the guy and the guy was KICKING IN HIS FRONT DOOR, fuck the scum bag , he's dead , next time he won't try and break into someones house and maybe rape or kill them if discovered.
No wait he can't do any more crimes , he's fucking DEAD!

Yeah, all for kicking a door. If YOU would shoot someone for doing the same, you need to re-eval.
He had time to ID the guy at the door. He had TIME. TIME vs a life, even if it's a scumbag. Good thing it was not some girlscout looking to collect cookie money. I will be happy to eat shit if it turns out that the published story is BS. This is a lawyers wet dream.

Have you ever read the details of how many feet an intruder can cover with a knife and stab the target before the other person gun in hand can aim & fire?
It's something like 23 feet.
Do you understand what can happen if you allow the threat into your home?

Contain/kill the threat where it stands.
Your problem here isn't logic, it's emotion, you feel sorry for the dead HOMEINVADER.

Posted: 12/23/2005 9:41:26 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

You now you are deliberately down playing the extent of the home invasion to suit your post.
You and I weren't there and do not know what exactly went down.
No one was there except a guy who knew someone was breaking in.
Did you ever think he might have thought it was some scum bag he busted looking for revenge/
Who gives a fuck, he saw the guy and the guy was KICKING IN HIS FRONT DOOR, fuck the scum bag , he's dead , next time he won't try and break into someones house and maybe rape or kill them if discovered.
No wait he can't do any more crimes , he's fucking DEAD!

Yeah, all for kicking a door. If YOU would shoot someone for doing the same, you need to re-eval.
He had time to ID the guy at the door. He had TIME. TIME vs a life, even if it's a scumbag. Good thing it was not some girlscout looking to collect cookie money. I will be happy to eat shit if it turns out that the published story is BS. This is a lawyers wet dream.

Have you ever read the details of how many feet an intruder can cover with a knife and stab the target before the other person gun in hand can aim & fire?
It's something like 2321 feet.
Do you understand what can happen if you allow the threat into your home?

Contain/kill the threat where it stands.
Your problem here isn't logic, it's emotion, you feel sorry for the dead HOMEINVADER.

Fixed it for you

I dunno about the rest of you, but every time a criminal gets shot dead, I always hear the song Another One Bites The Dust in my head.

Posted: 12/23/2005 10:12:15 PM EDT

[#50]

+1 on be sure of your target and beyound, good advice

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Shooting through a closed door? (Page 2 of 5)

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