Goddamn it.  Doesn't look good for us.  Expect media to cry for banning everything.

CNN is saying:

Police: Gunman kills 7 at church meeting
Suspect then shot himself to death, chief says

Of those who were shot, the youngest victim was about 10 years old and the oldest was around 72, Brookfield police Chief Daniel Tushaus said.

Four people remained in hospitals

Tushaus said the gunman's motive was unknown, and he didn't know if the shooter, who used a handgun, targeted certain people.



CNN - more

Put on your tinfoil hats...........

What if those hollywood movies are right. A sinster government with the power to alter human minds and sway the sheeple.

What if these gunman are the subjects of a powerful anti-gun group in a government (US or New World Order) programmed to commit heinous gun related crimes against US citizens. All intended to sway the masses into disarming.

A product of the experation of the AWB??? Hmmmmm...  A product of NWO??? Hmmmmm....  A product of the Dems getting their ass kicked??? Twice!!!  Hmmmmm.... A product of the UN being exposed??? Hmmmm...  

Quoted: Doyle vetoed CCW here just a few months ago, too.  I'm sure he still has no problem with that today...

Didn't you listen to our wise Governor? Wisconsin is too safe for us peasants to need guns.
My prayers for the victims and their families.

IMO this is a perfect defence FOR CCW! Ya hear that, Doyle?!?!?! Open your fricken eyes! If he had his way, all guns would be banned and there would be emergency phones with those little blue lights on them every block so if something like this happened you can just pick up the phone and all will be fine

+1

Goddamn! Thoughts and prayers for the families...

THIS IS BULLSHIT. ANTIS ARE GOING TO TRY TO USE THIS TO SHOW HOW TERRIBLE GUNS ARE. I HATE TO HAVE TO DO IT, BUT WE NEED TO JUMP ON THIS AND SHOW THE STATE THAT WE HAVE A RIGHT TO DEFEND OURSELVES FROM WACKOS.

There could have been a Mark Wilson there in the crowd.

I say its time to organize an open carry march in Madison.

Quoted: Why don't people fucking hang themselves anymore?

+1

Quoted: Hotel guests in lockdown Some guests remained locked in their rooms after police surrounded the building and would not allow anyone to enter or leave..

God I'm getting sick of the term "lockdown"  

Hmm, what's REALLY going on?  I'm really amazed at the string of shootings ocurring lately.  

KILLER PAUSED AT LEAST ONCE TO RELOAD.

God, a CCW holder could have stopped this.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wauk/mar05/309035.asp

'IT'S HUMAN CARNAGE'
8 dead, 4 wounded as New Berlin man
opens fire in church meeting at Brookfield hotel
By CROCKER STEPHENSON
[email protected]
Posted: March 12, 2005

A man neighbors described as quiet and devout opened fire on a group of men, women and children attending a weekly church service Saturday at a Brookfield hotel, killing eight people - including himself - and seriously wounding four others.
51025Hotel Shooting

The Dead
Randy L. Gregory, 50, Gurnee Ill.: Regional pastor of the Living Church of God. He traveled the Midwest serving several congregations.
James Gregory, 17, Gurnee: The pastor's son.
Harold Diekmeier, 74, Delafield: A native of Cudahy, the union carpenter moved to Delafield 11 years ago. His daughter, Sherry Koonce, who was not at the scene but is a member of the church, said her father was shot as her brother, Glen Diekmeier, also of Delafield, was delivering a "sermonette." "Glen was speaking at the time, and he saw Terry (Ratzmann). He just ducked behind the podium. ... He apparently was shooting at the back row, and my father was sitting in the back row. He heard the pop and stood up," she said, citing her brother's account. She said that her brother, 51, and her father worked together doing maintenance work at developments in the southern lakes region.
Richard Reeves, 58, Cudahy: "I think Mr. Reeves probably took my bullet," said survivor Chandra Frazier of Oak Creek, who dove under his chair during the shooting.
Bart Oliver, 15, Waukesha
Gloria Critari, 55, Cudahy
A 44-year-old man from Hartford

"He planned to shoot us all," said Chandra Frazier, a woman attending the Living Church of God gathering.

The service had been going about 15 minutes when the man yelled out something and opened fire. Some people sought cover, others attempted to protect loved ones. One man, Frazier said, yelled "Please stop! Think about it!"

The killer, armed with a handgun, paused at least once to reload. Frazier said she dove beneath the chair of man who was then shot.

"I'm just wondering why I'm still alive," she said.

Besides the gunman, four of the victims - three males, ages 15, 17 and 72, and one 55-year-old woman - died at the scene, the Sheraton hotel, 375 S. Moorland Road, just north of I-94.

Three others - all men, ages 44, 50 and 58 - died at Froedtert Memorial Lutheran Hospital.

Among the dead is the church's leader, Randy Gregory, 50, of Gurnee, Ill.

Three survivors include females, ages 10, 20 and 52. The fourth is a 20-year-old-man.

It is one of the worst mass murders in state history.

"It's heartbreaking, it's overwhelming. It's human carnage," Waukesha County District Attorney Paul Bucher said.

Police said the gunman acted alone.

"There is nobody else being sought at this time as a suspect," said Daniel Tushaus, chief of the Brookfield Police Department.

The shooter is believed to be Terry Ratzmann, 44, who lived with his mother and sister in New Berlin. Neighbors said Ratzmann had been a devoted member of the church.

Ratzmann's silver pickup truck was towed away from the hotel hours after the shooting. New Berlin police closed down Ratzmann's neighborhood while investigators searched his house.

New Berlin mayor Ted Wysocki said officers from his city had been called in to help after the shooting.

"We're doing an investigation at the behest of the Brookfield Police Department," Wysocki said. "They told us that there is potential of a suspect in New Berlin."

Neighbors in the wooded subdivision said they hadn't seen much of Ratzmann.

Joe Blasczyk, 30, grew up in neighborhood.

Blasczyk said Ratzmann "was the loner type. He just kind of gave you a weird gaze."

Neighbor Victor Seidl, who has lived near Ratzmann for almost 30 years, said Ratzmann lived with his mother and sister and "kind of kept to himself."

"They did their thing and we did our thing," Seidl said

Brookfield police received reports of shots fired at the hotel at 12:51 p.m., Tushaus said. A stream of ambulances from several agencies raced to the hotel and removed victims.

Froedtert physician Charles Cady, who treated three of the victims, said that six of them arrived at the hospital within a span of minutes. About 25 physicians, nurses and others were on hand to provide care.

"This did test our system and take us, I think, close to our limits," he said.

Another victim was taken to Children's Hospital of Wisconsin, police said, though a hospital spokeswoman would not confirm that any of the victims were there.
Surreal scene at hotel

The hotel took on a surreal quality in the shooting's aftermath.

Families with young hockey players, in town for a tournament, milled about in the lobby. Many of the kids ran and splashed at the swimming pool. The Catholic Knights held their regional conference, capped with a Mass in one of the conference rooms, and a lunch. Down the hall, cordoned off, were the bodies of the slain.

Shoppers and other curious people filled the parking lot for a view of the crime scene. Some stopped by to drop off flowers. One woman arrived with sandwiches and hot drinks for those keeping watch.

Bridget Healy, 9, of Chicago had just left her hotel room with her brother, Liam, 9, when they heard a woman scream to call 911. The girl said she ran and told her mother.

"She was pretty shaken up," said Bridget's mother, Janet.

Carol Schuster, an employee of Catholic Knights, said the organization was in the middle of its lunch when hotel employees came in to tell them what had happened. After a moment of silence, the meeting continued.

Police originally roped off the hotel, not allowing anyone but police officials to come and go from the building. But, after about an hour, the ropes were removed from all but the back of the hotel, and people began coming and going freely. One man, presumably unaware of the drama inside, approached the desk clerk and asked if they had any weekend specials available.

By 6 p.m. many of the church members present at the shooting were being allowed to leave after being interviewed by investigators. One group, who declined to speak to reporters, included a young girl, about 7 years old, wearing white high-heeled shoes, an older woman with a walker and man who looked to be about 70 years old.

Some family members held nervous vigil in their cars in the hours after the shooting. Two sisters, one from Okauchee and the other from Racine, waited patiently for their family members. The Okauchee woman had a 14-year-old daughter inside. The Racine woman was waiting for her husband and father-in-law.

They said they had just dropped off their family members and had gone shopping at nearby Brookfield Square mall when they got a cell phone call from the Racine woman's husband saying that there had been a shooting.
First official information

Tushaus began a 2:30 p.m. news conference saying, "Our thoughts and prayers are with the victims of this crime."

He said, "We are still in the early stages of the investigation," and said that federal law enforcement agencies are also involved.

Tushaus said the Living Church of God has been meeting at the Sheraton for about five years, and the events typically last from 10 a.m. until noon.

Some guests remained locked in their rooms after police surrounded the building and would not allow anyone to enter or leave.

Karen Suick, 48, said she arrived at the hotel Friday night with 15 players and parents for a hockey tournament.

"One of our hockey dad's two daughters are still in there," she said. "They called his cell phone. They were OK, but they were told to go back to their room. So that's what they did."

Journal Sentinel reporters Meg Kissinger, Lisa Sink, Crocker Stephenson, Rick Romell, Graeme Zielinski, Marie Rohde, Dave Umhoefer, David Doege, Reid Epstein, Scott Williams, Jamaal Abdul-Alim, Nahal Toosi, Kelly Wells and Derrick Nunnally contributed to this report.

Quoted: The problem is the media makes such a big deal out of one shooting and it gives all the other idiots the same idea.....BTW The holidays are always the highest rates of suicide.

NOT true... Urban legend.

It is a TV news myth that suicide goes up during the Christmas season

The suicide rate for December goes up a little from November but, the percent of suicides occurring in December is below the monthly average. April is usually the highest month.

I personally feel one is usually responsible for their own actions no matter the month... no excuse for this creep.

Didn't Wisconsin try and fail to get a shall issue CCW law passed last election?

Now is the time to try again.

I wonder how many of the shooters were on SSRI drugs.  A small but predictable minority become highly paranoid and violent when on SSRI drugs.

Ops

Quoted: Didn't Wisconsin try and fail to get a shall issue CCW law passed last election? Now is the time to try again.

yep, we lost by a single vote in the house, and one of the sponsors of the bill changed his vote from yes to no after being pressured by the governor.

CCW would have ended it. Hell, the knowledge that a CCW holder might be in the building could have thwarted it before he even tried it.

Fish in a barrel.

Quoted: Quoted: The problem is the media makes such a big deal out of one shooting and it gives all the other idiots the same idea.....BTW The holidays are always the highest rates of suicide.   NOT true... Urban legend. It is a TV news myth that suicide goes up during the Christmas season The suicide rate for December goes up a little from November but, the percent of suicides occurring in December is below the monthly average. April is usually the highest month. I personally feel one is usually responsible for their own actions no matter the month... no excuse for this creep.

Agreed, however, not KNOWING the rates of suicides by month previously, I'd have guessed April, as that IS the month when I USUALLY have the most problems w/the MS. (Not w/depression or anything -at most irritability....) however the problems THIS year began in mid to late February. :/

So still, not surprised, but certainly sad, for the victims, for the creep for how this MAY impact US.

Wonder if they will check his financial records.

Another story with pic of the shooter.

www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/topstory2/3082581


March 13, 2005, 3:49PM

Wisconsin shooter was upset over sermon, job
'Average Joe' kills 7 people and himself during an evangelical church service
By JULIET WILLIAMS and RYAN NAKASHIMA
Associated Press


Associated Press
Undated photo released by police of Terry W. Ratzmann of New Berlin, Wis.  
BROOKFIELD, Wis. — In a minute, a quiet church service at a suburban Milwaukee hotel turned into bloodbath.

Terry Ratzmann, a buttoned-down churchgoer known for sharing his homegrown vegetables with his neighbors, walked into the room and fired 22 rounds from a 9mm handgun.

One of Ratzmann's friends begged him to stop, calling him by name and saying "Stop, stop, why?", Police Capt. Phil Horter said. Chandra Frazier dove under a chair. The man sitting in it died.

"I just remember crawling on the carpet and just praying, screaming out and praying," Frazier told "Good Morning America" today.

Before it was over, seven people, including the church's minister and his teenage son, were killed and four others wounded. Ratzmann then took his own life, police said.

Although he left no suicide note and gave no explanation for the killings, investigators said Ratzmann was on the verge of losing his job and was upset over a sermon he heard two weeks ago.

It was unclear what specifically upset him, but Ratzmann was a member of the Living Church of God, a denomination whose leader recently prophesied that end times are near.

Fifty to 60 people were at Saturday's weekly meeting, and anyone in Ratzmann's path appeared to be a target. He even dropped a magazine and reloaded another.

The church's minister, Randy L. Gregory, 50, and his son, James Gregory, 17, of Gurnee, Ill., died, along with Harold Diekmeier, 74, of Delafield; Richard Reeves, 58, of Cudahy; Bart Oliver, 15, of Waukesha; Gloria Critari, 55, of Cudahy; and a 44-year-old man from Hartford, according to published reports.

Marjean Gregory, 52, was hospitalized in critical condition, a family friend said, and a 20-year-old woman, a 20-year-old man and the 10-year-old girl also were hospitalized.

The church group was 20 or 30 minutes into Saturday's service when the shots rang out.

Ratzmann regularly attended the gatherings at the Sheraton each Saturday — the church group did not have a building of its own. But Frazier said Ratzmann walked out of a recent sermon "sort of in a huff."

"Something that the minister said he was upset about. I'm not quite sure what exactly," she said.

During the shooting rampage, Ratzmann told the friend who approached him that he was upset, said Waukesha County District Attorney Paul Bucher, although he was unsure over what.

He was not known to have threatened anyone and had no criminal record, police said. They seized three computers, a .22-caliber rifle and a box of bullets from the modest two-story home Ratzmann shared with his mother and adult sister.

Neighbors said Ratzmann built his own greenhouse, kept a well-tended garden and even used humane traps to free squirrels that got in the yard.

"He wasn't a dark guy. He was average Joe," said Shane Colwell, a neighbor who knew Ratzmann for about a decade. "It's not like he ever pushed his beliefs on anyone else."

But another neighbor called Ratzmann a drinker, and church members said he struggled with depression for years.

"Terry suffered from depression, on and off. When he was really depressed he didn't talk to people. Sometimes it was worse than others," said Kathleen Wollin, 66, who was sitting at the front of the room during Saturday's service.

The district attorney said Ratzmann was on the verge of losing his job with a Waukesha County firm, but he would not name it or say what it did. Colwell said Ratzmann told him he was a computer technician.

The neighbor said Ratzmann was so devout about attending church that he skipped Colwell's wedding because it was on a Saturday.

The Living Church of God, based in Charlotte, N.C., places a strong emphasis on using world events to prove the end of the world is near.

Earlier this year, the group's leader, Dr. Roderick C. Meredith, wrote that events prophesied in the Bible are "beginning to occur with increasing frequency."

"We are not talking about decades in the future. We are talking about Bible prophesies that will intensify within the next five to 15 years of your life," he wrote in the church's magazine, Tomorrow's World.

The church branch that met in Brookfield was started by Randy Gregory, who moved his family from Texas to Gurnee, Ill., five years ago, said next-door neighbor Toni D'Amore, 47. Gregory and his 17-year-old son, James, were among the victims.

"Their children were probably, I'd have to say, were probably some of the nicest and most respectable young men I've ever met," she said.

She said James excelled in school. "He just had potential coming out of every pore of his body. You know, the world's lost something there."

Don Free said his niece, Angel Varichak, was one of the wounded, but she was expected to survive.

"I wanted to know where God was when this happened," Free told the Chicago Sun-Times. "He was supposed to be everywhere. He could have at least been there."

Quoted: Quoted: The problem is the media makes such a big deal out of one shooting and it gives all the other idiots the same idea.....BTW The holidays are always the highest rates of suicide.   NOT true... Urban legend. It is a TV news myth that suicide goes up during the Christmas season The suicide rate for December goes up a little from November but, the percent of suicides occurring in December is below the monthly average. April is usually the highest month. I personally feel one is usually responsible for their own actions no matter the month... no excuse for this creep.

Do yourself a favor and read page two completely.

Why can't the loonies just start the whole thing off by shooting themselves iinstead of finishing it that way?

Quoted: Ok, what foods have this Omega 3 acid? Are they gonna start putting it in our water like flouride?

No, but food companies ARE adding it to foods, kinda like "enriched flour" ...

The BEST source of omega 3's are flaxseeds. Omega 3 fatty acid Alpha Linolenic Acid (ALA) is found in flaxseed oil, perilla oil, avocados, walnuts (English has MORE than black, but black still fairly decent supply - and I ADORE black walnuts) and hemp. To a far lesser extent, cantaloupe, kidney beans, spinach, grape leaves, Chinese cabbage, and cauliflower have low levels of omega 3's. The Omega 3 fatty acid fish oils eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docasahexanoic acid (DHA) can be obtained from WILD cold water fish (salmon, trout, mackerel, anchovies and sardines). Farm raised fish tend to NOT have much if any omega 3's because they are fed GRAINS instead of their usual diets of algae/seaweed.

Our meat is from cattle grown on corn instead of grazing. Grazed animals have 5 times more omega 3 fatty acids in their meat than corn fed cattle. A second problem is that catfish, salmon, trout, and shrimp are being farmed. These fish eat omega 6 grains instead of minnows, drill, algae, and insects, which are rich in omega 3 fatty acids. This results in seafood that has much less omega 3 than native seafood. Also these farmed fish are less hardy than native fish which means they require antibiotics for infections that are common in their tight quarters. Salmon must be colored to mask an unappealing grey color of the meat.

I know that "Trader Joe's" has grazing cattle fed meat... though I'm unimpressed with what I've tried so far. :/

Also: canola (rapeseed), soybeans, green leafy vegetables, purslane,

Also there are eggs rich in omega 3's where the chickens who produce the eggs are fed a feed that is partly composed of ground flax seeds. Romaine lettuce is a decent source of long chain Omega-3s...you have to eat a lot of it, though.

Keep in mind that heat light and oxygen all destroy omega 3's so canned kindey beans likely offer little to no benefit on the omega 3 front. (though still decent w/the fiber. ;) And even wil;d canned tuna - not as beneficial as "fresh" tuna. Just as COOKED tuna isn't as beneficial as raw tuna (sushi anyone? ;)

Quoted: The BEST source of omega 3's are flaxseeds.

I've read that fish is the best source.



I hate fish, so I take this stuff www.coromega.com, made from fish, but tastes like orange pushups, no fish taste at all. You can get a free sample from their website.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Actually, it makes sense... that people go "nuts" more THIS time of year than others. Sad, not surprised though Why this time of year? Tax time? End of winter and cabin fever? That might account for a BIT ;) Well, most, if not ALL "mental disorders" or diseases, are pretty much UNIVERSALLY improved with an addition of relatively "high" levels of omega 3 fatty acids, schizophrenia, bi-polar, clinical depression, ADD, ADHD, (poor impulse control etc). My theory is that they are all CAUSED by a critical DEFICIENCY of omega 3's. Hence replacing them corrects the symptoms. I KNOW that all of the Autoimmune disorders ARE caused by a critical deficiency, or since they are largely CORRECTED by the addition... QED. Almost all people w/an auto-immune disease TEND to (at least at first) have a problem during the spring (most often) and occasionally the fall. The docs attribute this to "climate change" which is partly accurate. Mostly, I've found it to be allergies, allergies activate the immune system, activation of the immune system uses up larger quantities of omega 3's... or a rapid depletion... One of the FIRST "signs" of an omega 3 deficiency is the development OF allergies. Then it gets worse from there. So spring = mold = activation of allergies = rapid depletion of omega 3's, too rapid for the body to adjust so people who TEND toward one of the mental disorders/diseases instead of say MS (like me) are more "on edge" and essentially more volatile right now until around the 1st of May. Allergy season got a WAY early start this year - by like nearly 2 months. Last year by about 1 month. :/  So far I've managed to avoid attacks this year, but not flare-ups by increasing my omega 3's (3X as much as "normal") Stress also causes a rapid depletion which is why it is often implicated in many AI and mental problems. It's all organic chemistry, really. Obviously some situation or situation can CAUSE "rage" but the "uncontrolled" part is VERY likely due to the omega 3 deficiency. Want "proof"? Google: Disease (schizophrenia, bi-polar - whatever) "omega 3" abstract then read and put on you "detective" hat.

I'm woefully unknowing here...  Is this a new agey thing, or accepted science?

If legit, if I have no allergies, and no mental problems, does this mean that I :
- Don't need omega 3s period
- Have them, but daily activities consume less than average
- Use them as anyone else would, but my body is able to extract them from my current diet

Quoted: This is starting to look bad for us in a knee jerk reaction kind of way. Pray for the innocent.

Ammunition for the 'Gun Grabbers'…

It was psychos going nuts and massacring people as they went out in a blaze of glory that lost us our semi-auto rifles and handguns here in Britain.  The sheeple got scared and demanded a ban… the Government gave them what they wanted…

ANdy

Quoted: CNN is saying: Police: Gunman kills 7 at church meeting Suspect then shot himself to death, chief says Of those who were shot, the youngest victim was about 10 years old and the oldest was around 72, Brookfield police Chief Daniel Tushaus said. Four people remained in hospitals Tushaus said the gunman's motive was unknown, and he didn't know if the shooter, who used a handgun, targeted certain people. CNN - more

There aren't words for how angry this makes me.

Having been in my fair number of churches, I can assure you that some of the most wicked people I have ever met sit on church pews every Sunday morning.

I watched the media briefing yesterday morning ,live, where reporters asked the police questions.

One of the FIRST questions was: "Was the gun registered?"

Next,

"Does Wisconsin require residents to register?"

There were a couple more anti questions, and all were right in the beginning.  I was sick

Quoted: Quoted: No judges or police officers involved.  Nichols has been caught.  Cable News now returns to it's regularly scheduled programming - The Michael Jackson case...... Yeah, I guess Michael is more "frightening" or at least "sensational" than a church shooting.

Sure enough, nothing but Michael Jackson all over Drudge and tv nuze today.  Some more shit but not as much about the Robert Blake trial.  God Bless the Military Channel!

ETA: if you all haven't figured out the news cycle by now, everytime there's a BREAKING STORY or some crap, project yourself 1 week in the future and ask yourself, will I give a shit a week from now?  If so, pay attention, if not, focus on something else.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: No judges or police officers involved.  Nichols has been caught.  Cable News now returns to it's regularly scheduled programming - The Michael Jackson case...... Yeah, I guess Michael is more "frightening" or at least "sensational" than a church shooting. Sure enough, nothing but Michael Jackson all over Drudge and tv nuze today.  Some more shit but not as much about the Robert Blake trial.  God Bless the Military Channel! ETA: if you all haven't figured out the news cycle by now, everytime there's a BREAKING STORY or some crap, project yourself 1 week in the future and ask yourself, will I give a shit a week from now?  If so, pay attention, if not, focus on something else.

Eh, unless it's about gays or guns, I don't sweat any of it TOO much, and when the BS comes on... well, that's why God had us invent remotes