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Link Posted: 7/12/2008 7:48:53 AM EDT


Here's to the cost of housing going up!!!

Hoo-Hoo!!!



WE NEED A GUEST WORKER PROGRAM ASAP.

This is getting ridiculous...

Link Posted: 7/12/2008 7:52:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Blackwind:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:



In Milford, Tacuri worked seven days a week as a subcontractor for American roofing companies, doing projects others avoided like rotten and snow-covered roofs while paying his employees well, O'Hara said in April.




Since ARFcom has deigned to ignore this little gem, lets make it a bit bigger.

Free market at work providing prosperity - check
Hard-worker - check
self-starter - check
good employer - check
Papers - ...
PAPERS - ...
PAPERS!!!! - ...

Hey, this guy's papers are out of order!


Far easier to paint him as the evil illegal.


Well, he IS an illegal. Now while I would prefer the INS start with the gangbangers and other lowlife, it doesnt change the fact this individual was himself here illegally.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 7:52:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:


Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

What part of "Illegal" alien do you not understand?



Ever jaywalk?


That's it?

That's the best response you have?

He was not arrested for jaywalking. The guy was in this country illegally. He has no right whatsoever to be here.

The penalty for that is deportation.


Well, Jaywalking is a stretch - but nobody exactly asks, "what part of 'illegal' gun don't you understand?" in any ATF seizure threads.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 8:00:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By Blackwind:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:



In Milford, Tacuri worked seven days a week as a subcontractor for American roofing companies, doing projects others avoided like rotten and snow-covered roofs while paying his employees well, O'Hara said in April.




Since ARFcom has deigned to ignore this little gem, lets make it a bit bigger.

Free market at work providing prosperity - check
Hard-worker - check
self-starter - check
good employer - check
Papers - ...
PAPERS - ...
PAPERS!!!! - ...

Hey, this guy's papers are out of order!


Far easier to paint him as the evil illegal.


Well, he IS an illegal. Now while I would prefer the INS start with the gangbangers and other lowlife, it doesnt change the fact this individual was himself here illegally.


Being here without documentation is only a misdemeanor.

If they aren't here commiting violent crimes, then leave them to their bricklaying, lawn mowing and vegetable picking etc...

OUR MIGRANT WORKER POLICIES HAVEN'T BEEN OVERHAULED IN NEARLY 100 YEARS.

Since about 90% of all Americans work in a cubicle or in retail, we need 'worker bees' from South of the border... unless you wanna pick me some fuggin' strawberries, then I suggest you think about that for a moment...
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 8:25:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Jaywalking is illegal.
So is crossing the border without the proper papieren.

Both matter to me about the same.


Would support allowing Government Officials to pick and choose which laws they wish to enforce -based on which ones matter to them personally, or politically?


That practice is fairly common, with or without the voters consent.

Look up how well the steel import-export laws are enforced.


Same Question:

Do YOU support Government Officials picking and choosing which laws they wish to enforce -based on which ones matter to them personally, or politically?


If you're asking if I approve of the common practice, then no.

But your example doesn't really hold up. We aren't talking about 1, 10 or even 100 people deciding what laws they want enforced.

Its plainly obvious that the political will to create comprehensive immigration reform that actually makes sense is entirely absent. The laws aren't enforced because people are ambivalent or stuck maintaining senseless extreme positions.

The brainless lefties would gladly import every third-worlder on the globe and give them free health care, university education and back rubs. The brainless righties, led by chief nut Tom Tancredo, want to "round em up and throw up out."

Any sort of sensible legislation, things like "if someone was smuggled in when at 6 months old and is now 30 they should have a path to citizenship" is immediately ripped to shreds.

So it's not malevolence of one moustache-twirling no-good-nik that keeps the laws from being enforced, it's the apathy of several hundred million.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 9:45:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Originally Posted By Hmanjr:
Fuck him, fuck him hard, fuck him hard enough that people whisper about it in his native land to scare little children, fuck him hard enough that I feel a little better.

Because justice and law is all about feeling better.

I like what you did there. Using a tactic we use against the other side and make me seem to be from that side. After seeing countless Americans getting worked over hard by the system for technicalities while guys like this get away with blatant violations, yeah I get a little bent. So would I feel better if we legally raped this guy knowing that literally millions more are doing the same thing? Hell, yeah! I'd consider it a good start. Does that make me an evil person who only feels not thinks. Not in the least. We need to start making a difference, we need to do something, we need to quit winking and turning a blind eye to the problems our inaction is causing.

Good God Almighty what the hell is it with people who defend ILLEGAL FUCKING ALIENS?

Mother Fucking Christ is it any wonder that we're fucking giving the god damned country away if every god damned one of us shrugs his shoulders and says "Meh" when soneone breaks the fucking law.

Giving the country away to whom? Successful roofers? Savvy businessmen? We should be falling over ourselves to make sure these people STAY.

Lol, once again I like what you did there. You use an exceptionally small subset of a group to represent that group. Good use of that micro set that actually acts like us. But you are wrong. The vast majority of illegal aliens are not intelligent, hard working, men and women like us. They are illiterate, non-integrating, leaches who have values FAR different from our own. Rampant alcoholism, masochistic violent tendencies, casual disregard for our laws and customs, fiscal irresponsibility, disease vectoring, raping, robbing, and a world view that really believes that we owe them are the traits they bring with them.

Comparing what this guy was doing with jaywalking is ignorant. The two are not comparable in any way whatsoever.

You're right. Jaywalking doesn't affect anyone. This guy, however, was supporting the local grocery store, paying sales tax, generating construction business by having a house built, paying money to the hardware store for supplies. He was bettering a community though the free exchange of capital and labor - THE HORROR!

Yes, you are correct in that he was pumping some money into the local economy. But I don't think he was paying taxes, operating with a business license, paying all the required fees, buying the required insurance, getting everything properly registered, paying all the payroll taxes, and jumping through all the red tape and bureaucracy that regular good citizens do. He wasn't playing on a level field and had an unfair competitive edge over regular citizens trying to earn money for their families.

Ought to be a bounty on illegals, those who protect them, That is the only way to look at the problem if you're serious about addressing it. and those who give them the benefits that they come here for. A bounty on Congress. I'm in, what are you paying?

Merely wishful thinking on my part. A flight of fantasy. Someone who actually did anything (Minute Men) would be trounced by everyone for different reasons.

And a god damned wall.
When you explain to me why this will be more effective than any other wall throughout history. Oh, and how you plan to pay for it.

There have been too many discussions about the cost effectiveness of a wall on the border to repeat it here. Too many plans from the simplest of putting up a barbed wire fence to a heavily fortified one with strong points and electronic and remote surveillance. There are those who believe it to be worthwhile no matter the cost and those who believe it to be worthless no matter the costs. I believe the studies that indicate that even the most rudimentary wall has a huge deterrent impact on illegal immigration.


We spend how much money erecting walls next to highways to protect the surrounding neighborhoods from noise while allowing scum to walk right in because we're afraid to try.

Sarcasm heavy "Little Nancy doesn't hear the sound of the trucks running up the highway since they put in the wall, but then again she doesn't hear much of anything since her throat was sliced open and her vagina and anus were raped repeatedly by the 25 illegal aliens who befriended the little girl as they walked past the family home each day on their way to pick vegetables at the local farm owned by the kindly old couple who were happy to help out the hard working family values little Americans.

And a generous serving of xenophobia for dessert. Let me guess, they speared babies on the way through Belgium, too. Right?

Lol, so as an American who views our nation as something special that we should protect for our children while we have it is a xenophobe? Good one. I look at my children and want to take care of them. I look at all the other children in the world and realize that I can not help all of them. Cold hard fact. I can take care of my own. We need to take care of our own before taking care of others. I know it's not that simple and sometimes taking care of your own means taking care of others also. I'm not heartless and uncaring. We can help others in foreign nations. But that doesn't mean that we ignore all the laws we have in place to ensure that we are not harmed by the flood of people who would be worthwhile additions to 'us'. If those laws need to be changed, fine, then change them. But we cannot consider ourselves a nation if we can not do the simple act of securing our borders and punishing those who flaunt their disobedience of our laws.

Thanks for your replies. :)

Link Posted: 7/12/2008 10:07:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ceetee:
I have to find some fault with this guy's employer, "American Roofing Companies" as well. It's all fine to hire someone as a subcontractor, but that sub is supposed to be licensed. You're supposed to verify that license. How the fuck do you suppose a totally illiterate is gonna get a contractor's license?

Dollars to donuts, they knew he was illegal, they knew his whole crew was illegal, and they only hired him as a sub to give them deniability when they got caught hiring illegal workers. They should get the same shaft the illegals got.


Actually, they have somethig that is basically a "subcontractors loophole"
where they are pretty much "covered", I think a few laws have been passed
to attempt to address this, mostly being directed towards .gov contractors
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 10:16:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JonasWright:



In Milford, Tacuri worked seven days a week as a subcontractor for American roofing companies, doing projects others avoided like rotten and snow-covered roofs while paying his employees well, O'Hara said in April.




Since ARFcom has deigned to ignore this little gem, lets make it a bit bigger.

Free market at work providing prosperity - check
Hard-worker - check
self-starter - check
good employer - check
Papers - ...
PAPERS - ...
PAPERS!!!! - ...

Hey, this guy's papers are out of order!


His PAPERS are out of order?

WTF?

What was his criminal history in his home country?
What is his real name? How many identities does he have?
What did his physical turn up? Does he have any communicable diseases?
What kept this hard-working, self-starter from coming here legally? I wonder.....

He "BYPASSED" all the legal requirements for legal entry into this country
and then, once here, he proceeded to break laws left and right, fuck him

I guess YOU ignored that little part of the "gem"
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 10:17:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:



In Milford, Tacuri worked seven days a week as a subcontractor for American roofing companies, doing projects others avoided like rotten and snow-covered roofs while paying his employees well, O'Hara said in April.




Since ARFcom has deigned to ignore this little gem, lets make it a bit bigger.

Free market at work providing prosperity - check
Hard-worker - check
self-starter - check
good employer - check
Papers - ...
PAPERS - ...
PAPERS!!!! - ...

Hey, this guy's papers are out of order!


What part of "Illegal" alien do you not understand?


Apparently, the "il" part
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 10:20:03 AM EDT
Good fuck him. Piece of fucking garbage making me work harder for less.


Mexican construction is garbage. I hope his ass gets made into a playground.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 10:23:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2008 10:28:14 AM EDT by AZ_newguy]
I bet not one of his 'employees' had worker's comp insurance. If they get injured, they show up in the ER and you foot the bill. That, and no tax payments. I hate paying taxes, but don't fuck me by not paying yours and live in $455k house.

Fuck him and his sympathizers.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 10:31:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2008 10:31:45 AM EDT by GT86]

Originally Posted By PUBBOY:

Being here without documentation is only a misdemeanor.

If they aren't here commiting violent crimes, then leave them to their bricklaying, lawn mowing and vegetable picking etc...

OUR MIGRANT WORKER POLICIES HAVEN'T BEEN OVERHAULED IN NEARLY 100 YEARS.

Since about 90% of all Americans work in a cubicle or in retail, we need 'worker bees' from South of the border... unless you wanna pick me some fuggin' strawberries, then I suggest you think about that for a moment...


Yes, we need to change our migrant worker policies. We need to make it easier for properly vetted people to get a work visa. We need a better system for keeping tabs on these people while they are here. We need to make sure they are complying with labor, tax, immigration, civil and criminal law. We could even make more paths to citizenship available to those who want it and have earned it.

But the solution is not to throw the borders open and allow anyone in for whatever purpose they want, and allow them free reign, all the while demanding the rights of a citizen with none of the responsibilities.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 10:31:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2008 10:33:06 AM EDT by ZW17]
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 10:33:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By patriot73:
Good fuck him. Piece of fucking garbage making me work harder for less.


Mexican construction is garbage. I hope his ass gets made into a playground.


Ecuador.

It's a tad further south. He no doubt crossed many international borders illegally.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 10:36:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2008 10:47:11 AM EDT by 22bad]

Originally Posted By PUBBOY:
Being here without documentation is only a misdemeanor.

If they aren't here commiting violent crimes, then leave them to their bricklaying, lawn mowing and vegetable picking etc...

OUR MIGRANT WORKER POLICIES HAVEN'T BEEN OVERHAULED IN NEARLY 100 YEARS.

Since about 90% of all Americans work in a cubicle or in retail, we need 'worker bees' from South of the border... unless you wanna pick me some fuggin' strawberries, then I suggest you think about that for a moment...


Yeah, being here without documentation the first time is a
misdemeanor, returning after being deported is a FELONY

Even the ones that aren't committing violent crimes are committing crimes
like identity theft(that sticks citizens with credit card bills and tax liabilities)

And, check on the "harmless illegals" that killed LEOs in cold blood(and raped children)
turns out that they were working as dishwashers, construction workers and farm workers

If they kill Cops in cold blood and rape ten year old girls they aren't really harmless, are they?
(and, for some reason they've killed many LEOs\Firemen\EMTs that were off duty, while DUI)

And, have you heard about diseases that were
previously eradicated making a comeback here?
That is because "harmless illegals" bypassed their
physicals and infected innocent American Citizens here
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 10:44:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
...................Some shit-kicker came up and busted his ass and made something of himself. Give me 5 minutes and I could find you 20 people "native-born" citizen-leeches that I would gladly send to Mexico in his place.


You can also find one who killed Officer Daniel Golden in Huntsville- googleisyourfriend.

You either secure the borders and screen entrants or you accept whatever comes across.

You either enforce the law or it becomes a joke.

Get back to us when one of your relatives is offed by an illegal "shit kicker".
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 10:58:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2008 11:27:17 AM EDT by Cincinnatus]

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Jaywalking is illegal.
So is crossing the border without the proper papieren.

Both matter to me about the same.


Would support allowing Government Officials to pick and choose which laws they wish to enforce -based on which ones matter to them personally, or politically?


That practice is fairly common, with or without the voters consent.

Look up how well the steel import-export laws are enforced.


Same Question:

Do YOU support Government Officials picking and choosing which laws they wish to enforce -based on which ones matter to them personally, or politically?


If you're asking if I approve of the common practice, then no.

But your example doesn't really hold up. We aren't talking about 1, 10 or even 100 people deciding what laws they want enforced.

............................

So it's not malevolence of one moustache-twirling no-good-nik that keeps the laws from being enforced, it's the apathy of several hundred million.


What could be a better example of apathy than this statement?:

"Jaywalking is illegal.
So is crossing the border without the proper papieren.

Both matter to me about the same. "
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 11:16:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By ceetee:
I have to find some fault with this guy's employer, "American Roofing Companies" as well. It's all fine to hire someone as a subcontractor, but that sub is supposed to be licensed. You're supposed to verify that license. How the fuck do you suppose a totally illiterate is gonna get a contractor's license?

Dollars to donuts, they knew he was illegal, they knew his whole crew was illegal, and they only hired him as a sub to give them deniability when they got caught hiring illegal workers. They should get the same shaft the illegals got.


Actually, they have somethig that is basically a "subcontractors loophole"
where they are pretty much "covered", I think a few laws have been passed
to attempt to address this, mostly being directed towards .gov contractors


I can only say how it is in Florida, being a roofing contractor myself. Anybody we hire has to be a full-time or part-time employee. We have to verify that they're legal to work in the country. We have to pay for Worker's Comp, and all the rest. If I hire somebody on a per-job basis, as a sub-contractor, I have to verify that that sub is able to work under his own license. If any of those conditions aren't met, then I get gigged for hiring unlicensed contractors.

This actually happened to me once, when one of our regular guys decided he was too hungover to work one day, and he paid his cousin to go to the job site for him. It just so happened that was the day that that job site was visited by Florida State Dept of Business and Professional Licensing. They asked the guy's name, and who he worked for, and he gave the name of our company. Then, they called us and asked, "Does Senor "X" work for you? We told them we had no one of that name working for us, and explained what we thought had happened... and they still wrote us up for hiring unlicensed contractors.

Getting back to the thread in question, OSHA says you can't have anyone under the age of 18 doing roofing work. If he did, then there's another violation, not to mention not providing insurance, not submitting payroll taxes...
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 11:26:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ceetee:

Getting back to the thread in question, OSHA says you can't have anyone under the age of 18 doing roofing work. If he did, then there's another violation, not to mention not providing insurance, not submitting payroll taxes...


yeah, pretty fucking easy to be a sucessful businessman when you just get to freely ignore all of the permits, fees, laws, insurance etc.
I'd make a hell of a lot more money if I could
but no, I would be shut down in a day.

Link Posted: 7/12/2008 11:32:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Jaywalking is illegal.
So is crossing the border without the proper papieren.

Both matter to me about the same.


Would support allowing Government Officials to pick and choose which laws they wish to enforce -based on which ones matter to them personally, or politically?


That practice is fairly common, with or without the voters consent.

Look up how well the steel import-export laws are enforced.


Same Question:

Do YOU support Government Officials picking and choosing which laws they wish to enforce -based on which ones matter to them personally, or politically?


If you're asking if I approve of the common practice, then no.

But your example doesn't really hold up. We aren't talking about 1, 10 or even 100 people deciding what laws they want enforced.

............................

So it's not malevolence of one moustache-twirling no-good-nik that keeps the laws from being enforced, it's the apathy of several hundred million.


What could be a better example of apathy than this statement?:

"Jaywalking is illegal.
So is crossing the border without the proper papieren.

Both matter to me about the same. "


Personally, I don't think immigration is an issue. So, yeah, that makes me apathetics. I've dealt with illegals who were turds and ones who were awesome, ditto legals and any shade of white, black or brown you can think of.

Human history is a history of migration. I suggest people learn to deal with that fact.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 11:41:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2008 11:42:28 AM EDT by Cincinnatus]

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Jaywalking is illegal.
So is crossing the border without the proper papieren.

Both matter to me about the same.


Would support allowing Government Officials to pick and choose which laws they wish to enforce -based on which ones matter to them personally, or politically?


That practice is fairly common, with or without the voters consent.

Look up how well the steel import-export laws are enforced.


Same Question:

Do YOU support Government Officials picking and choosing which laws they wish to enforce -based on which ones matter to them personally, or politically?


If you're asking if I approve of the common practice, then no.

But your example doesn't really hold up. We aren't talking about 1, 10 or even 100 people deciding what laws they want enforced.

............................

So it's not malevolence of one moustache-twirling no-good-nik that keeps the laws from being enforced, it's the apathy of several hundred million.


What could be a better example of apathy than this statement?:

"Jaywalking is illegal.
So is crossing the border without the proper papieren.

Both matter to me about the same. "


Personally, I don't think immigration is an issue.
Actually, it is a HUGE issue. Your personal beliefs have nothing to do it.
It is a political issue, it is a security issue, it is an economic issue, etc.

Saying "it's not an issue" is foolish.


So, yeah, that makes me apathetics. I've dealt with illegals who were turds and ones who were awesome, ditto legals and any shade of white, black or brown you can think of.

Human history is a history of migration. I suggest people learn to deal with that fact.


One way of dealing with that "fact", is to take measures to affect how it happens.

We're aren't talking about Killer Bees or Monarch Butterflies. Controlling how migration occurs is not impossible -far from it.

Letting anyone and everyone who wants to come across the border to do so, is not a smart thing to do.
It may be in keeping with the Libertarian Party's Platform, but since when did that have anything to do with smart?
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 11:47:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
Personally, I don't think immigration is an issue. So, yeah, that makes me apathetics. I've dealt with illegals who were turds and ones who were awesome, ditto legals and any shade of white, black or brown you can think of.

Human history is a history of migration. I suggest people learn to deal with that fact.




Don't take this as a personal attack cause it isn't.

Do you have any female family members or friends? Mind introducing any of them to me?

Cause Rape and prostitution has also been a part of Human History.

Doesn't sound so good to be saying people need to deal with that fact now does it?

Just because that's the way it used to be, doesn't mean we HAVE to accept it. We have a special place and deserve the right to run it as we see fit. If we say only 1 person a year can immigrate, then only 1 person. We can not simply allow anyone who wants to come here to do so.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 11:47:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JonasWright:


Human history is a history of migration. I suggest people learn to deal with that fact.


Human history also shows that uncontrolled migration often leads to war, economic collapse, and famine, among other things.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 11:53:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hmanjr:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
Personally, I don't think immigration is an issue. So, yeah, that makes me apathetics. I've dealt with illegals who were turds and ones who were awesome, ditto legals and any shade of white, black or brown you can think of.

Human history is a history of migration. I suggest people learn to deal with that fact.




Don't take this as a personal attack cause it isn't.

Do you have any female family members or friends? Mind introducing any of them to me?

Cause Rape and prostitution has also been a part of Human History.


I seriously doubt Jonas is opposed to Prostuitution.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 11:57:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Jaywalking is illegal.
So is crossing the border without the proper papieren.

Both matter to me about the same.


Would support allowing Government Officials to pick and choose which laws they wish to enforce -based on which ones matter to them personally, or politically?


That practice is fairly common, with or without the voters consent.

Look up how well the steel import-export laws are enforced.


Same Question:

Do YOU support Government Officials picking and choosing which laws they wish to enforce -based on which ones matter to them personally, or politically?


If you're asking if I approve of the common practice, then no.

But your example doesn't really hold up. We aren't talking about 1, 10 or even 100 people deciding what laws they want enforced.

............................

So it's not malevolence of one moustache-twirling no-good-nik that keeps the laws from being enforced, it's the apathy of several hundred million.


What could be a better example of apathy than this statement?:

"Jaywalking is illegal.
So is crossing the border without the proper papieren.

Both matter to me about the same. "


Personally, I don't think immigration is an issue.
Actually, it is a HUGE issue. Your personal beliefs have nothing to do it.
It is a political issue, it is a security issue, it is an economic issue, etc.

Saying "it's not an issue" is foolish.


On a scale of 1-10 I put it at about a three.
It's a political issue only because both parties have fallen over themselves to pander to second and third generation groups who are natural born citizens.

It's a security issue only because we've made it one with our stupid policies. Billions of dollars are poured into the desert hole every year to stop the eeeeevil drugs. But drop a crack head off in any metro area and I'd put money on the fact that he'd find any drug he wanted inside two hours.

It's an economic issue because people come up here and work their ass off without paying into the dozen ponzi schemes that skim MY paycheck before it ever lands in my hands.
There are RULES! You most follow the RULES! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!




So, yeah, that makes me apathetics. I've dealt with illegals who were turds and ones who were awesome, ditto legals and any shade of white, black or brown you can think of.

Human history is a history of migration. I suggest people learn to deal with that fact.


One way of dealing with that "fact", is to take measures to affect how it happens.

We're aren't talking about Killer Bees or Monarch Butterflies. Controlling how migration occurs is not impossible -far from it.

Letting anyone and everyone who wants to come across the border to do so, is not a smart thing to do.
It may be in keeping with the Libertarian Party's Platform, but since when did that have anything to do with smart?


I would disagree, controlling mass human flight is quite impossible. You can make it miserable, make them third-rate residents, discourage it, shoot them, round them up, imprison them, toss them into the sea but if the benefits of coming outweigh the risk they're still going to come. The fear of torture, imprisonment and death of your loved ones wasn't enough to keep East Berliners from trying the wall.

As far as I'm concerned, and as far as the LP position goes (and I know we've had this argument before) toss out entitlements and tell people, "welcome to the land of the free - free to work or free to go hungry."

Cincinnatus, to grasp the position, consider this example:
Alright, I've drawn a line. This line doesn't mean anything to you. It's my line. If you cross this line your opportunities are going to improve almost immediately. Your pay will be better, quality of living is higher, if you have kids the opportunities for them will be immeasurably higher, medical care is better, pretty much everything is better. If you cross the line - the worst that will happen is that we will put you right back where you are.
BUT DON'T YOU CROSS THAT LINE!

Link Posted: 7/12/2008 12:00:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2008 12:01:58 PM EDT by 22bad]

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By Hmanjr:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
Personally, I don't think immigration is an issue. So, yeah, that makes me apathetics. I've dealt with illegals who were turds and ones who were awesome, ditto legals and any shade of white, black or brown you can think of.

Human history is a history of migration. I suggest people learn to deal with that fact.




Don't take this as a personal attack cause it isn't.

Do you have any female family members or friends? Mind introducing any of them to me?

Cause Rape and prostitution has also been a part of Human History.


I seriously doubt Jonas is opposed to Prostuitution.


He's not
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=724641&page=1

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
Prostitution is about sex and free enterprise - which of those are you against?
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 12:01:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
As far as I'm concerned, and as far as the LP position goes (and I know we've had this argument before) toss out entitlements and tell people, "welcome to the land of the free - free to work or free to go hungry."
That is NOT the position of the LP Party.
The Libertarian Party has made it clear again and again, that their Immigration Policy has nothing to do with Welfare or entitlements.



Cincinnatus, to grasp the position, consider this example:
Alright, I've drawn a line. This line doesn't mean anything to you. It's my line. If you cross this line your opportunities are going to improve almost immediately. Your pay will be better, quality of living is higher, if you have kids the opportunities for them will be immeasurably higher, medical care is better, pretty much everything is better. If you cross the line - the worst that will happen is that we will put you right back where you are.
BUT DON'T YOU CROSS THAT LINE!


You are advocating against National Borders and National Sovereignty.

Your position is of the One World variety.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 12:02:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By Hmanjr:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
Personally, I don't think immigration is an issue. So, yeah, that makes me apathetics. I've dealt with illegals who were turds and ones who were awesome, ditto legals and any shade of white, black or brown you can think of.

Human history is a history of migration. I suggest people learn to deal with that fact.




Don't take this as a personal attack cause it isn't.

Do you have any female family members or friends? Mind introducing any of them to me?

Cause Rape and prostitution has also been a part of Human History.


I seriously doubt Jonas is opposed to Prostuitution.


Prostitution is about sex and making money. Which of those are you opposed to?

To answer your question, Hmanjr: we haven't been able to get rid of prostitution either. The best you can do is push it out of site. I guar-on-tea that smack in the middle of Taliban tyranny that people were still buying and selling pussy.

Rape is something else altogether. Rape is something someone forces on someone else.
Prostitution is not a matter of force, neither, for that matter, is immigration. (Immigration by force is known as conquest.)
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 12:03:48 PM EDT
Send his ass back to South America after he's served the max years for each count. Liquidate his assets to pay for his incarceration.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 12:04:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
As far as I'm concerned, and as far as the LP position goes (and I know we've had this argument before) toss out entitlements and tell people, "welcome to the land of the free - free to work or free to go hungry."
That is NOT the position of the LP Party.
The Libertarian Party has made it clear again and again, that their Immigration Policy has nothing to do with Welfare or entitlements.



Cincinnatus, to grasp the position, consider this example:
Alright, I've drawn a line. This line doesn't mean anything to you. It's my line. If you cross this line your opportunities are going to improve almost immediately. Your pay will be better, quality of living is higher, if you have kids the opportunities for them will be immeasurably higher, medical care is better, pretty much everything is better. If you cross the line - the worst that will happen is that we will put you right back where you are.
BUT DON'T YOU CROSS THAT LINE!


You are advocating against National Borders and National Sovereignty.

Your position is of the One World variety.


(Let's toss rehashing the LP for this one)

I'm doing no such thing. I'm merely pointing out what the argument looks like.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 12:06:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
On a scale of 1-10 I put it at about a three.
It's a political issue only because both parties have fallen over themselves to pander to second and third generation groups who are natural born citizens.
No, it is an issue, because how we deal with it or whether we deal with it will have deep and long-term consequences for our economy and our security.

You advocate putting your head in the sand -or more accurately, opening the flood gates, and wave as the rush on in.



It's a security issue only because we've made it one with our stupid policies. Billions of dollars are poured into the desert hole every year to stop the eeeeevil drugs. But drop a crack head off in any metro area and I'd put money on the fact that he'd find any drug he wanted inside two hours.
You are only choosing to see it through the lens of your pet issue.
In reality, it is a legitimate security issue that has nothing to do with drugs..



It's an economic issue because people come up here and work their ass off without paying into the dozen ponzi schemes that skim MY paycheck before it ever lands in my hands.
There are RULES! You most follow the RULES! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!


You can't have it both ways.
You can't suggest they are coming here for the entitlements, and then say they are coming here to work their asses off.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 12:09:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
As far as I'm concerned, and as far as the LP position goes (and I know we've had this argument before) toss out entitlements and tell people, "welcome to the land of the free - free to work or free to go hungry."
That is NOT the position of the LP Party.
The Libertarian Party has made it clear again and again, that their Immigration Policy has nothing to do with Welfare or entitlements.



Cincinnatus, to grasp the position, consider this example:
Alright, I've drawn a line. This line doesn't mean anything to you. It's my line. If you cross this line your opportunities are going to improve almost immediately. Your pay will be better, quality of living is higher, if you have kids the opportunities for them will be immeasurably higher, medical care is better, pretty much everything is better. If you cross the line - the worst that will happen is that we will put you right back where you are.
BUT DON'T YOU CROSS THAT LINE!


You are advocating against National Borders and National Sovereignty.

Your position is of the One World variety.


(Let's toss rehashing the LP for this one)

I'm doing no such thing. I'm merely pointing out what the argument looks like.


No. You believe people have the "right" to cross any "imaginary", government imposed line, and go where they please (other than onto private property, I assume).

That essentially eliminates the concept of National Sovereignty.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 12:12:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Alright, I've drawn a line. This line doesn't mean anything to you. It's my line. If you cross this line your opportunities are going to improve almost immediately. Your pay will be better, quality of living is higher, if you have kids the opportunities for them will be immeasurably higher, medical care is better, pretty much everything is better. If you cross the line - the worst that will happen is that we will put you right back where you are.
BUT DON'T YOU CROSS THAT LINE!



The solution to this is to take away the opportunities for those willing to cross the line without permission.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 12:14:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
On a scale of 1-10 I put it at about a three.
It's a political issue only because both parties have fallen over themselves to pander to second and third generation groups who are natural born citizens.
No, it is an issue, because how we deal with it or whether we deal with it will have deep and long-term consequences for our economy and our security.

You advocate putting your head in the sand -or more accurately, opening the flood gates, and wave as the rush on in.


Well, fine. But neither of the two political parties ARE dealing with it. It's the hot potato issue and everyone passes it off to the next guy.

If we HAVE to deal with it, but neither party of Congress is, does it amount to treason or sheer, overwhelming incompetence? Regardless of which one it is, shouldn't we be in D.C. stretching necks if that is the case?





It's a security issue only because we've made it one with our stupid policies. Billions of dollars are poured into the desert hole every year to stop the eeeeevil drugs. But drop a crack head off in any metro area and I'd put money on the fact that he'd find any drug he wanted inside two hours.
You are only choosing to see it through the lens of your pet issue.
In reality, it is a legitimate security issue that has nothing to do with drugs..


I'm using my "pet issue" to illustrate my point, that shutting down a border that size is a stupid, stupid activity that serves only to waste dollars and manpower. Do you think that our failure to put a dent in the drug flow will translate into a resounding success in stopping the people flow at the same farging border?





It's an economic issue because people come up here and work their ass off without paying into the dozen ponzi schemes that skim MY paycheck before it ever lands in my hands.
There are RULES! You most follow the RULES! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!


You can't have it both ways.
You can't suggest they are coming here for the entitlements, and then say they are coming here to work their asses off.


I don't imply that ALL people ever follow a single motive. But the subject of the story was reported to work seven days a week on jobs no one else would touch. Do others come to get on the dole, I can't imagine why not.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 12:16:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
As far as I'm concerned, and as far as the LP position goes (and I know we've had this argument before) toss out entitlements and tell people, "welcome to the land of the free - free to work or free to go hungry."
That is NOT the position of the LP Party.
The Libertarian Party has made it clear again and again, that their Immigration Policy has nothing to do with Welfare or entitlements.



Cincinnatus, to grasp the position, consider this example:
Alright, I've drawn a line. This line doesn't mean anything to you. It's my line. If you cross this line your opportunities are going to improve almost immediately. Your pay will be better, quality of living is higher, if you have kids the opportunities for them will be immeasurably higher, medical care is better, pretty much everything is better. If you cross the line - the worst that will happen is that we will put you right back where you are.
BUT DON'T YOU CROSS THAT LINE!


You are advocating against National Borders and National Sovereignty.

Your position is of the One World variety.


(Let's toss rehashing the LP for this one)

I'm doing no such thing. I'm merely pointing out what the argument looks like.


No. You believe people have the "right" to cross any "imaginary", government imposed line, and go where they please (other than onto private property, I assume).

That essentially eliminates the concept of National Sovereignty.


I never implied they had the right. Re-read the example. This is what I imagine the argument looks like to those entering the country illegally, NOT what I think is the right answer.

Link Posted: 7/12/2008 12:22:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
On a scale of 1-10 I put it at about a three.
It's a political issue only because both parties have fallen over themselves to pander to second and third generation groups who are natural born citizens.
No, it is an issue, because how we deal with it or whether we deal with it will have deep and long-term consequences for our economy and our security.

You advocate putting your head in the sand -or more accurately, opening the flood gates, and wave as the rush on in.


Well, fine. But neither of the two political parties ARE dealing with it. It's the hot potato issue and everyone passes it off to the next guy.
First it's a non-issue, now it's a "Hot Potato" issue?

It's an issue.

It's so much of an issue, that the Libertarian Party eliminated their detailed explanation of how they intend to eliminate the BP, INS and Customs, as a first step towards Open Borders. Even THEY realized it was a big issue -heck, they compromised their principles for the sake of that "hot potato".



If we HAVE to deal with it, but neither party of Congress is, does it amount to treason or sheer, overwhelming incompetence? Regardless of which one it is, shouldn't we be in D.C. stretching necks if that is the case?
Such actions occur at the polls.
Obviously it IS an issue, huh?







It's a security issue only because we've made it one with our stupid policies. Billions of dollars are poured into the desert hole every year to stop the eeeeevil drugs. But drop a crack head off in any metro area and I'd put money on the fact that he'd find any drug he wanted inside two hours.
You are only choosing to see it through the lens of your pet issue.
In reality, it is a legitimate security issue that has nothing to do with drugs..


I'm using my "pet issue" to illustrate my point, that shutting down a border that size is a stupid, stupid activity that serves only to waste dollars and manpower. Do you think that our failure to put a dent in the drug flow will translate into a resounding success in stopping the people flow at the same farging border?
There is a world of difference between controlling immigration and physically shutting down the entire border.
The alternative is not to just completely open the border and hope for the best.

That's just silly.







It's an economic issue because people come up here and work their ass off without paying into the dozen ponzi schemes that skim MY paycheck before it ever lands in my hands.
There are RULES! You most follow the RULES! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!


You can't have it both ways.
You can't suggest they are coming here for the entitlements, and then say they are coming here to work their asses off.


I don't imply that ALL people ever follow a single motive. But the subject of the story was reported to work seven days a week on jobs no one else would touch. Do others come to get on the dole, I can't imagine why not.


You can't have it both ways.
One or the other.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 12:23:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
As far as I'm concerned, and as far as the LP position goes (and I know we've had this argument before) toss out entitlements and tell people, "welcome to the land of the free - free to work or free to go hungry."
That is NOT the position of the LP Party.
The Libertarian Party has made it clear again and again, that their Immigration Policy has nothing to do with Welfare or entitlements.



Cincinnatus, to grasp the position, consider this example:
Alright, I've drawn a line. This line doesn't mean anything to you. It's my line. If you cross this line your opportunities are going to improve almost immediately. Your pay will be better, quality of living is higher, if you have kids the opportunities for them will be immeasurably higher, medical care is better, pretty much everything is better. If you cross the line - the worst that will happen is that we will put you right back where you are.
BUT DON'T YOU CROSS THAT LINE!


You are advocating against National Borders and National Sovereignty.

Your position is of the One World variety.


(Let's toss rehashing the LP for this one)

I'm doing no such thing. I'm merely pointing out what the argument looks like.


So if your neighbor decides to cross an imaginary line (your property boundary) to wire into your power meter to make his life better (hey! no power bill!). After all, he's not really taking anything tangible from you. Of course, your cost increases, but your neighbor only did it to make his life better.

Link Posted: 7/12/2008 12:37:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2008 12:38:40 PM EDT by JonasWright]

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
On a scale of 1-10 I put it at about a three.
It's a political issue only because both parties have fallen over themselves to pander to second and third generation groups who are natural born citizens.
No, it is an issue, because how we deal with it or whether we deal with it will have deep and long-term consequences for our economy and our security.

You advocate putting your head in the sand -or more accurately, opening the flood gates, and wave as the rush on in.


Well, fine. But neither of the two political parties ARE dealing with it. It's the hot potato issue and everyone passes it off to the next guy.
First it's a non-issue, now it's a "Hot Potato" issue?

It's an issue.

It's so much of an issue, that the Libertarian Party eliminated their detailed explanation of how they intend to eliminate the BP, INS and Customs, as a first step towards Open Borders. Even THEY realized it was a big issue -heck, they compromised their principles for the sake of that "hot potato".


All I've said is that it's not an issue to ME. Nationally, its a huge issue for piss-poor reasons.

And I hate to disappoint you, but I can't answer to why the LP does anything. Like any other party they shuck gull to the rubes to try and get votes. Why did the Republican Party change its stance on the Dept. of Education? For the very same reason.





If we HAVE to deal with it, but neither party of Congress is, does it amount to treason or sheer, overwhelming incompetence? Regardless of which one it is, shouldn't we be in D.C. stretching necks if that is the case?
Such actions occur at the polls.
Obviously it IS an issue, huh?


Lots of big issues are "decided on" at the polls. It ultimately means voting in a different moron or reaffirming the same moron who isn't going to do anything.

Remember the Republican Revolution? How long did that last after the election?









It's a security issue only because we've made it one with our stupid policies. Billions of dollars are poured into the desert hole every year to stop the eeeeevil drugs. But drop a crack head off in any metro area and I'd put money on the fact that he'd find any drug he wanted inside two hours.
You are only choosing to see it through the lens of your pet issue.
In reality, it is a legitimate security issue that has nothing to do with drugs..


I'm using my "pet issue" to illustrate my point, that shutting down a border that size is a stupid, stupid activity that serves only to waste dollars and manpower. Do you think that our failure to put a dent in the drug flow will translate into a resounding success in stopping the people flow at the same farging border?
There is a world of difference between controlling immigration and physically shutting down the entire border.
The alternative is not to just completely open the border and hope for the best.

That's just silly.


So the alternate is to have a little bit of control? Maybe a smidge of it? A peck?
The solution is creating a guest worker program for anyone who wants to work. Allow people who want to come an avenue. Then if you find someone sneaking through the desert you can safely assume they're up to no good.








It's an economic issue because people come up here and work their ass off without paying into the dozen ponzi schemes that skim MY paycheck before it ever lands in my hands.
There are RULES! You most follow the RULES! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!


You can't have it both ways.
You can't suggest they are coming here for the entitlements, and then say they are coming here to work their asses off.


I don't imply that ALL people ever follow a single motive. But the subject of the story was reported to work seven days a week on jobs no one else would touch. Do others come to get on the dole, I can't imagine why not.

You can't have it both ways.
One or the other.


This is really just being stubborn. Do you TRULY want me to say ALL Mexicans are hard workers or ALL Mexicans are lazy, and that ALL Mexicans come here to do one specific thing?
There isn't one motive for any action. Some people move to Florida for the fishing, some for the swimming, some for the warm weather, some to be near family, some to work.
I don't imagine I can second guess everyone in the world's motives.

Link Posted: 7/12/2008 12:41:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
As far as I'm concerned, and as far as the LP position goes (and I know we've had this argument before) toss out entitlements and tell people, "welcome to the land of the free - free to work or free to go hungry."
That is NOT the position of the LP Party.
The Libertarian Party has made it clear again and again, that their Immigration Policy has nothing to do with Welfare or entitlements.



Cincinnatus, to grasp the position, consider this example:
Alright, I've drawn a line. This line doesn't mean anything to you. It's my line. If you cross this line your opportunities are going to improve almost immediately. Your pay will be better, quality of living is higher, if you have kids the opportunities for them will be immeasurably higher, medical care is better, pretty much everything is better. If you cross the line - the worst that will happen is that we will put you right back where you are.
BUT DON'T YOU CROSS THAT LINE!


You are advocating against National Borders and National Sovereignty.

Your position is of the One World variety.


(Let's toss rehashing the LP for this one)

I'm doing no such thing. I'm merely pointing out what the argument looks like.


So if your neighbor decides to cross an imaginary line (your property boundary) to wire into your power meter to make his life better (hey! no power bill!). After all, he's not really taking anything tangible from you. Of course, your cost increases, but your neighbor only did it to make his life better.



This isn't even remotely the same thing.

If Juan hops the border and paints a fence what does it cost you? Nickels? Pennies? A bit of pride?

If someone is stealing electricity then they're stealing!
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 1:01:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JonasWright:


This isn't even remotely the same thing.

If Juan hops the border and paints a fence what does it cost you? Nickels? Pennies? A bit of pride?

If someone is stealing electricity then they're stealing!


What does Juan on his own cost us? Not much, if anything. Juan en masse? A breakdown of the border, increased demands placed on welfare, social services, health care, and police. Increased violence--Juan may be here to paint the fence, but others come for criminal activity. Depressed wages, lower property values, higher taxes.



Link Posted: 7/12/2008 1:07:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
As far as I'm concerned, and as far as the LP position goes (and I know we've had this argument before) toss out entitlements and tell people, "welcome to the land of the free - free to work or free to go hungry."
That is NOT the position of the LP Party.
The Libertarian Party has made it clear again and again, that their Immigration Policy has nothing to do with Welfare or entitlements.



Cincinnatus, to grasp the position, consider this example:
Alright, I've drawn a line. This line doesn't mean anything to you. It's my line. If you cross this line your opportunities are going to improve almost immediately. Your pay will be better, quality of living is higher, if you have kids the opportunities for them will be immeasurably higher, medical care is better, pretty much everything is better. If you cross the line - the worst that will happen is that we will put you right back where you are.
BUT DON'T YOU CROSS THAT LINE!


You are advocating against National Borders and National Sovereignty.

Your position is of the One World variety.


(Let's toss rehashing the LP for this one)

I'm doing no such thing. I'm merely pointing out what the argument looks like.


So if your neighbor decides to cross an imaginary line (your property boundary) to wire into your power meter to make his life better (hey! no power bill!). After all, he's not really taking anything tangible from you. Of course, your cost increases, but your neighbor only did it to make his life better.



This isn't even remotely the same thing.

If Juan hops the border and paints a fence what does it cost you? Nickels? Pennies? A bit of pride?

If someone is stealing electricity then they're stealing!


They're not depriving you of anything-they've only increased your cost. Why would you deny them a better life? What kind of sadistic heartless bastard are you that you'd deny them low cost air conditioning?

Same thing when hordes of illegals ignore a border and tap into services intended for and paid for by you. Not even a tiny bit of difference except in my scenario, it's a direct effect on you rather than a shared burden.

Would you feel better about your neighbor tapping into your power if they also tapped into the rest of the neighborhood? Then the cost is spread out-it's only increasing individual costs by a few bucks a month. That's not so bad, is it?
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 1:09:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PUBBOY:
Being here without documentation is only a misdemeanor.

If they aren't here commiting violent crimes, then leave them to their bricklaying, lawn mowing and vegetable picking etc...

OUR MIGRANT WORKER POLICIES HAVEN'T BEEN OVERHAULED IN NEARLY 100 YEARS.

Since about 90% of all Americans work in a cubicle or in retail, we need 'worker bees' from South of the border... unless you wanna pick me some fuggin' strawberries, then I suggest you think about that for a moment...


I'd be quite happy to pick your strawberries.
But I dont think you'd want to pay me what it takes to do so.
Think about THAT for a moment.....

We're selling out our very own country for cheap prices.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 1:10:35 PM EDT
he did hurt people. what a douchecanoe!!!
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 1:14:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GT86:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:


This isn't even remotely the same thing.

If Juan hops the border and paints a fence what does it cost you? Nickels? Pennies? A bit of pride?

If someone is stealing electricity then they're stealing!


What does Juan on his own cost us? Not much, if anything. Juan en masse? A breakdown of the border, increased demands placed on welfare, social services, health care, and police. Increased violence--Juan may be here to paint the fence, but others come for criminal activity. Depressed wages, lower property values, higher taxes.


When it was just Juan(one million or less illegals)it wasn't a big problem
However, since Juan did so well, now Jose, Hector, Pablo,
Maria and Juanita(both pregnant) have all crossed over
(now twenty million or more illegals)and now they are
sucking our social services, filling our jails\prisons,
making our horrible schools do even worse and
bringing their higher crime rate and diseases
from their countries to the United States

Juan wound up costing us quite a bit, and he and his
buddied raped and killed a bunch of innocent people
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 1:17:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By GT86:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:


This isn't even remotely the same thing.

If Juan hops the border and paints a fence what does it cost you? Nickels? Pennies? A bit of pride?

If someone is stealing electricity then they're stealing!


What does Juan on his own cost us? Not much, if anything. Juan en masse? A breakdown of the border, increased demands placed on welfare, social services, health care, and police. Increased violence--Juan may be here to paint the fence, but others come for criminal activity. Depressed wages, lower property values, higher taxes.


When it was just Juan(one million or less illegals)it wasn't a big problem
However, since Juan did so well, now Jose, Hector, Pablo,
Maria and Juanita(both pregnant) have all crossed over
(now twenty million or more illegals)and now they are
sucking our social services, filling our jails\prisons,
making our horrible schools do even worse and
bringing their higher crime rate and diseases
from their countries to the United States

Juan wound up costing us quite a bit, and he and his
buddied raped and killed a bunch of innocent people



"But but but! They only want a better life! It only increases individual net cost a little bit!"

Fuck that. First time, you get deported to your country of origin. Second time, you get airdropped in Shitsandwichistan. Go mooch off someone else-and good luck getting the fine folks in one of the "'Stan" countries to print shit in spanish for you.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 1:42:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1IV:
... And WTF is a 13 year old doing on a roofing crew?

He is being prosecuted for doing 1/2 assed jobs for a 1/2 assed company.


He probably does better work than many of the citizens do..... 13 year old getting off of his little ass from in front of the TV and helping out... I see no issue here... This is not the same as an Asian sweat shop......
You obviously must live in an urban area... You would not be so offended if you had lived around farms....
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 1:44:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
Go mooch off someone else-and good luck getting the fine folks in one of the "'Stan" countries to print shit in spanish for you.


Did you miss the part about him working? It isn't like he was sitting on his fat ass drinking beer and collecting welfare.....
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 1:49:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:
And, have you heard about diseases that were
previously eradicated making a comeback here?
That is because "harmless illegals" bypassed their
physicals and infected innocent American Citizens here


Self important white US citizen parents are exercising their "right" to opt out of immunizations.... putting others at risk....
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 1:51:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Interceptor_Knight:

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
Go mooch off someone else-and good luck getting the fine folks in one of the "'Stan" countries to print shit in spanish for you.


Did you miss the part about him working? It isn't like he was sitting on his fat ass drinking beer and collecting welfare.....


Actually, by not paying his taxes(payroll and income, as well as mandatory insurance)
he was still mooching off of the rest of the taxpaying neighbors and fucking his competitors
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 1:52:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Interceptor_Knight:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
And, have you heard about diseases that were
previously eradicated making a comeback here?
That is because "harmless illegals" bypassed their
physicals and infected innocent American Citizens here


Self important white US citizen parents are exercising their "right" to opt out of immunizations.... putting others at risk....


Are they breaking the law, or not?
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