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Posted: 7/12/2008 7:48:53 AM EDT
[#1]
 Here's to the cost of housing going up!!! Hoo-Hoo!!!  WE NEED A GUEST WORKER PROGRAM ASAP. This is getting ridiculous... |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 7:52:31 AM EDT
[#2]
Well, he IS an illegal. Now while I would prefer the INS start with the gangbangers and other lowlife, it doesnt change the fact this individual was himself here illegally. |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 7:52:37 AM EDT
[#3]
Well, Jaywalking is a stretch - but nobody exactly asks, "what part of 'illegal' gun don't you understand?" in any ATF seizure threads. |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 8:00:24 AM EDT
[#4]
Being here without documentation is only a misdemeanor. If they aren't here commiting violent crimes, then leave them to their bricklaying, lawn mowing and vegetable picking etc... OUR MIGRANT WORKER POLICIES HAVEN'T BEEN OVERHAULED IN NEARLY 100 YEARS. Since about 90% of all Americans work in a cubicle or in retail, we need 'worker bees' from South of the border... unless you wanna pick me some fuggin' strawberries, then I suggest you think about that for a moment... |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 8:25:41 AM EDT
[#5]
If you're asking if I approve of the common practice, then no. But your example doesn't really hold up. We aren't talking about 1, 10 or even 100 people deciding what laws they want enforced. Its plainly obvious that the political will to create comprehensive immigration reform that actually makes sense is entirely absent. The laws aren't enforced because people are ambivalent or stuck maintaining senseless extreme positions. The brainless lefties would gladly import every third-worlder on the globe and give them free health care, university education and back rubs. The brainless righties, led by chief nut Tom Tancredo, want to "round em up and throw up out." Any sort of sensible legislation, things like "if someone was smuggled in when at 6 months old and is now 30 they should have a path to citizenship" is immediately ripped to shreds. So it's not malevolence of one moustache-twirling no-good-nik that keeps the laws from being enforced, it's the apathy of several hundred million. |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 9:45:17 AM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 7/12/2008 10:07:23 AM EDT
[#7]
Actually, they have somethig that is basically a "subcontractors loophole" where they are pretty much "covered", I think a few laws have been passed to attempt to address this, mostly being directed towards .gov contractors 
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Posted: 7/12/2008 10:16:11 AM EDT
[#8]
His PAPERS are out of order? WTF? What was his criminal history in his home country? What is his real name? How many identities does he have? What did his physical turn up? Does he have any communicable diseases? What kept this hard-working, self-starter from coming here legally? I wonder..... He "BYPASSED" all the legal requirements for legal entry into this country and then, once here, he proceeded to break laws left and right, fuck him I guess YOU ignored that little part of the "gem"
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Posted: 7/12/2008 10:17:14 AM EDT
[#9]
Apparently, the "il" part
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Posted: 7/12/2008 10:20:03 AM EDT
[#10]
Good fuck him. Piece of fucking garbage making me work harder for less.
Mexican construction is garbage. I hope his ass gets made into a playground. |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 10:23:52 AM EDT
[#11]
I bet not one of his 'employees' had worker's comp insurance. If they get injured, they show up in the ER and you foot the bill. That, and no tax payments. I hate paying taxes, but don't fuck me by not paying yours and live in $455k house.
Fuck him and his sympathizers. |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 10:31:08 AM EDT
[#12]
Yes, we need to change our migrant worker policies. We need to make it easier for properly vetted people to get a work visa. We need a better system for keeping tabs on these people while they are here. We need to make sure they are complying with labor, tax, immigration, civil and criminal law. We could even make more paths to citizenship available to those who want it and have earned it. But the solution is not to throw the borders open and allow anyone in for whatever purpose they want, and allow them free reign, all the while demanding the rights of a citizen with none of the responsibilities. |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 10:31:53 AM EDT
[#13]
Try 12-18 months. Not 10 years. It's not as hard as you make it out to be and it's the law so get with the program. Your avatar must represent you, always pushing the rock up the hill and letting it fall just to do it all over again. You sure must like pushing that heavy rock uphill, life must be hard for you. |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 10:33:54 AM EDT
[#14]
Ecuador. It's a tad further south. He no doubt crossed many international borders illegally. |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 10:36:11 AM EDT
[#15]
Yeah, being here without documentation the first time is a misdemeanor, returning after being deported is a FELONY Even the ones that aren't committing violent crimes are committing crimes like identity theft(that sticks citizens with credit card bills and tax liabilities) And, check on the "harmless illegals" that killed LEOs in cold blood(and raped children) turns out that they were working as dishwashers, construction workers and farm workers If they kill Cops in cold blood and rape ten year old girls they aren't really harmless, are they? (and, for some reason they've killed many LEOs\Firemen\EMTs that were off duty, while DUI) And, have you heard about diseases that were previously eradicated making a comeback here? That is because "harmless illegals" bypassed their physicals and infected innocent American Citizens here |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 10:44:19 AM EDT
[#16]
You can also find one who killed Officer Daniel Golden in Huntsville- googleisyourfriend. You either secure the borders and screen entrants or you accept whatever comes across. You either enforce the law or it becomes a joke. Get back to us when one of your relatives is offed by an illegal "shit kicker". |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 10:58:29 AM EDT
[#17]
What could be a better example of apathy than this statement?: "Jaywalking is illegal. So is crossing the border without the proper papieren. Both matter to me about the same. " |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 11:16:20 AM EDT
[#18]
I can only say how it is in Florida, being a roofing contractor myself. Anybody we hire has to be a full-time or part-time employee. We have to verify that they're legal to work in the country. We have to pay for Worker's Comp, and all the rest. If I hire somebody on a per-job basis, as a sub-contractor, I have to verify that that sub is able to work under his own license. If any of those conditions aren't met, then I get gigged for hiring unlicensed contractors. This actually happened to me once, when one of our regular guys decided he was too hungover to work one day, and he paid his cousin to go to the job site for him. It just so happened that was the day that that job site was visited by Florida State Dept of Business and Professional Licensing. They asked the guy's name, and who he worked for, and he gave the name of our company. Then, they called us and asked, "Does Senor "X" work for you? We told them we had no one of that name working for us, and explained what we thought had happened... and they still wrote us up for hiring unlicensed contractors. Getting back to the thread in question, OSHA says you can't have anyone under the age of 18 doing roofing work. If he did, then there's another violation, not to mention not providing insurance, not submitting payroll taxes... |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 11:26:52 AM EDT
[#19]
yeah, pretty fucking easy to be a sucessful businessman when you just get to freely ignore all of the permits, fees, laws, insurance etc. I'd make a hell of a lot more money if I could but no, I would be shut down in a day. |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 11:32:09 AM EDT
[#20]
Personally, I don't think immigration is an issue. So, yeah, that makes me apathetics. I've dealt with illegals who were turds and ones who were awesome, ditto legals and any shade of white, black or brown you can think of. Human history is a history of migration. I suggest people learn to deal with that fact. |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 11:41:34 AM EDT
[#21]
It is a political issue, it is a security issue, it is an economic issue, etc. Saying "it's not an issue" is foolish.
One way of dealing with that "fact", is to take measures to affect how it happens. We're aren't talking about Killer Bees or Monarch Butterflies. Controlling how migration occurs is not impossible -far from it. Letting anyone and everyone who wants to come across the border to do so, is not a smart thing to do. It may be in keeping with the Libertarian Party's Platform, but since when did that have anything to do with smart? |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 11:47:50 AM EDT
[#22]
Don't take this as a personal attack cause it isn't. Do you have any female family members or friends? Mind introducing any of them to me? Cause Rape and prostitution has also been a part of Human History. Doesn't sound so good to be saying people need to deal with that fact now does it? Just because that's the way it used to be, doesn't mean we HAVE to accept it. We have a special place and deserve the right to run it as we see fit. If we say only 1 person a year can immigrate, then only 1 person. We can not simply allow anyone who wants to come here to do so. |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 11:47:55 AM EDT
[#23]
Human history also shows that uncontrolled migration often leads to war, economic collapse, and famine, among other things. |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 11:53:42 AM EDT
[#24]
I seriously doubt Jonas is opposed to Prostuitution. |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 11:57:26 AM EDT
[#25]
On a scale of 1-10 I put it at about a three. It's a political issue only because both parties have fallen over themselves to pander to second and third generation groups who are natural born citizens. It's a security issue only because we've made it one with our stupid policies. Billions of dollars are poured into the desert hole every year to stop the eeeeevil drugs. But drop a crack head off in any metro area and I'd put money on the fact that he'd find any drug he wanted inside two hours. It's an economic issue because people come up here and work their ass off without paying into the dozen ponzi schemes that skim MY paycheck before it ever lands in my hands. There are RULES! You most follow the RULES! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!
I would disagree, controlling mass human flight is quite impossible. You can make it miserable, make them third-rate residents, discourage it, shoot them, round them up, imprison them, toss them into the sea but if the benefits of coming outweigh the risk they're still going to come. The fear of torture, imprisonment and death of your loved ones wasn't enough to keep East Berliners from trying the wall. As far as I'm concerned, and as far as the LP position goes (and I know we've had this argument before) toss out entitlements and tell people, "welcome to the land of the free - free to work or free to go hungry." Cincinnatus, to grasp the position, consider this example: Alright, I've drawn a line. This line doesn't mean anything to you. It's my line. If you cross this line your opportunities are going to improve almost immediately. Your pay will be better, quality of living is higher, if you have kids the opportunities for them will be immeasurably higher, medical care is better, pretty much everything is better. If you cross the line - the worst that will happen is that we will put you right back where you are. BUT DON'T YOU CROSS THAT LINE! |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 12:00:19 PM EDT
[#26]
He's not www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=724641&page=1
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Posted: 7/12/2008 12:01:53 PM EDT
[#27]
The Libertarian Party has made it clear again and again, that their Immigration Policy has nothing to do with Welfare or entitlements.
You are advocating against National Borders and National Sovereignty. Your position is of the One World variety. |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 12:02:20 PM EDT
[#28]
Prostitution is about sex and making money. Which of those are you opposed to?  To answer your question, Hmanjr: we haven't been able to get rid of prostitution either. The best you can do is push it out of site. I guar-on-tea that smack in the middle of Taliban tyranny that people were still buying and selling pussy. Rape is something else altogether. Rape is something someone forces on someone else. Prostitution is not a matter of force, neither, for that matter, is immigration. (Immigration by force is known as conquest.) |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 12:03:48 PM EDT
[#29]
Send his ass back to South America after he's served the max years for each count. Liquidate his assets to pay for his incarceration.
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Posted: 7/12/2008 12:04:23 PM EDT
[#30]
(Let's toss rehashing the LP for this one) I'm doing no such thing. I'm merely pointing out what the argument looks like. |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 12:06:59 PM EDT
[#31]
You advocate putting your head in the sand -or more accurately, opening the flood gates, and wave as the rush on in.
In reality, it is a legitimate security issue that has nothing to do with drugs..
You can't have it both ways. You can't suggest they are coming here for the entitlements, and then say they are coming here to work their asses off. |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 12:09:48 PM EDT
[#32]
No. You believe people have the "right" to cross any "imaginary", government imposed line, and go where they please (other than onto private property, I assume). That essentially eliminates the concept of National Sovereignty. |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 12:12:03 PM EDT
[#33]
The solution to this is to take away the opportunities for those willing to cross the line without permission. |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 12:14:01 PM EDT
[#34]
Well, fine. But neither of the two political parties ARE dealing with it. It's the hot potato issue and everyone passes it off to the next guy. If we HAVE to deal with it, but neither party of Congress is, does it amount to treason or sheer, overwhelming incompetence? Regardless of which one it is, shouldn't we be in D.C. stretching necks if that is the case?
I'm using my "pet issue" to illustrate my point, that shutting down a border that size is a stupid, stupid activity that serves only to waste dollars and manpower. Do you think that our failure to put a dent in the drug flow will translate into a resounding success in stopping the people flow at the same farging border?
I don't imply that ALL people ever follow a single motive. But the subject of the story was reported to work seven days a week on jobs no one else would touch. Do others come to get on the dole, I can't imagine why not. |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 12:16:06 PM EDT
[#35]
I never implied they had the right. Re-read the example. This is what I imagine the argument looks like to those entering the country illegally, NOT what I think is the right answer. |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 12:22:19 PM EDT
[#36]
It's an issue. It's so much of an issue, that the Libertarian Party eliminated their detailed explanation of how they intend to eliminate the BP, INS and Customs, as a first step towards Open Borders. Even THEY realized it was a big issue -heck, they compromised their principles for the sake of that "hot potato".
Obviously it IS an issue, huh?
The alternative is not to just completely open the border and hope for the best. That's just silly.
You can't have it both ways. One or the other. |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 12:23:32 PM EDT
[#37]
So if your neighbor decides to cross an imaginary line (your property boundary) to wire into your power meter to make his life better (hey! no power bill!). After all, he's not really taking anything tangible from you. Of course, your cost increases, but your neighbor only did it to make his life better. 
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Posted: 7/12/2008 12:37:02 PM EDT
[#38]
All I've said is that it's not an issue to ME. Nationally, its a huge issue for piss-poor reasons. And I hate to disappoint you, but I can't answer to why the LP does anything. Like any other party they shuck gull to the rubes to try and get votes. Why did the Republican Party change its stance on the Dept. of Education? For the very same reason.
Lots of big issues are "decided on" at the polls. It ultimately means voting in a different moron or reaffirming the same moron who isn't going to do anything. Remember the Republican Revolution? How long did that last after the election?
So the alternate is to have a little bit of control? Maybe a smidge of it? A peck? The solution is creating a guest worker program for anyone who wants to work. Allow people who want to come an avenue. Then if you find someone sneaking through the desert you can safely assume they're up to no good.
I don't imply that ALL people ever follow a single motive. But the subject of the story was reported to work seven days a week on jobs no one else would touch. Do others come to get on the dole, I can't imagine why not. You can't have it both ways. One or the other. This is really just being stubborn. Do you TRULY want me to say ALL Mexicans are hard workers or ALL Mexicans are lazy, and that ALL Mexicans come here to do one specific thing? There isn't one motive for any action. Some people move to Florida for the fishing, some for the swimming, some for the warm weather, some to be near family, some to work. I don't imagine I can second guess everyone in the world's motives. |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 12:41:17 PM EDT
[#39]
This isn't even remotely the same thing. If Juan hops the border and paints a fence what does it cost you? Nickels? Pennies? A bit of pride? If someone is stealing electricity then they're stealing! |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 1:01:39 PM EDT
[#40]
What does Juan on his own cost us? Not much, if anything. Juan en masse? A breakdown of the border, increased demands placed on welfare, social services, health care, and police. Increased violence--Juan may be here to paint the fence, but others come for criminal activity. Depressed wages, lower property values, higher taxes. |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 1:07:20 PM EDT
[#41]
They're not depriving you of anything-they've only increased your cost. Why would you deny them a better life? What kind of sadistic heartless bastard are you that you'd deny them low cost air conditioning? Same thing when hordes of illegals ignore a border and tap into services intended for and paid for by you. Not even a tiny bit of difference except in my scenario, it's a direct effect on you rather than a shared burden. Would you feel better about your neighbor tapping into your power if they also tapped into the rest of the neighborhood? Then the cost is spread out-it's only increasing individual costs by a few bucks a month. That's not so bad, is it? |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 1:09:24 PM EDT
[#42]
I'd be quite happy to pick your strawberries. But I dont think you'd want to pay me what it takes to do so. Think about THAT for a moment..... We're selling out our very own country for cheap prices. |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 1:10:35 PM EDT
[#43]
he did hurt people. what a douchecanoe!!!
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Posted: 7/12/2008 1:14:56 PM EDT
[#44]
When it was just Juan(one million or less illegals)it wasn't a big problem However, since Juan did so well, now Jose, Hector, Pablo, Maria and Juanita(both pregnant) have all crossed over (now twenty million or more illegals)and now they are sucking our social services, filling our jails\prisons, making our horrible schools do even worse and bringing their higher crime rate and diseases from their countries to the United States Juan wound up costing us quite a bit, and he and his buddied raped and killed a bunch of innocent people |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 1:17:46 PM EDT
[#45]
"But but but! They only want a better life! It only increases individual net cost a little bit!" Fuck that. First time, you get deported to your country of origin. Second time, you get airdropped in Shitsandwichistan. Go mooch off someone else-and good luck getting the fine folks in one of the "'Stan" countries to print shit in spanish for you. |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 1:42:53 PM EDT
[#46]
He probably does better work than many of the citizens do..... 13 year old getting off of his little ass from in front of the TV and helping out... I see no issue here... This is not the same as an Asian sweat shop...... You obviously must live in an urban area... You would not be so offended if you had lived around farms.... |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 1:44:26 PM EDT
[#47]
Did you miss the part about him working? It isn't like he was sitting on his fat ass drinking beer and collecting welfare..... |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 1:49:02 PM EDT
[#48]
Self important white US citizen parents are exercising their "right" to opt out of immunizations.... putting others at risk.... |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 1:51:14 PM EDT
[#49]
Actually, by not paying his taxes(payroll and income, as well as mandatory insurance) he was still mooching off of the rest of the taxpaying neighbors and fucking his competitors |
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Posted: 7/12/2008 1:52:41 PM EDT
[#50]
Are they breaking the law, or not?
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