smoke and mirrors---mike how many people do you know that have been lost to drunk driving...I know eight....why does it matter? because drugs ain't the problem...people are...drugs don't rob,steal, drive, or shoot anybody..people do.
Punish the offenses and quit the ridiculous war on drugs...and as far as taking away assets..
blatently unconstitutional and very profitible to your department...I see why you brag about it. I heard a gangster trying to establish his creds, he sounded just like you.

Hit and killed by a stoned motorists...how about shot in the face by a police bullet? You don't want to use that argument...

Oh please, you know 8 people who were killed by drunk drivers? How many innocents do you know who were shot in the face by police? Which is the greater threat here?

It's never a waste if both sides bother to listen.Which puts you very close to the problem, and pardon me if I point it out - too close to be able to think dispassionately about it.That's always an option.

boomer..the people that ran over people while drunk all did time..not enough but they did time....I think we both know the other side of this equation....

Well I would be devastated if my child got killed period, hardly matters if it was because of drunk driver, stoned driver, cell phone using driver, tired driver, stupid driver, pursuit cop chasing a speeder, etc... Besides, anyone that has experienced both alcohol and marijuana can tell you, you drive much slower and safer when on marijuana, and regardless I don't advocate stoned people driving anymore than drunk people, that's why we have DUI laws for both alcohol and drugs.

[b]Originally posted by Philedelphia Gunman

Heavy herion users must keep some amount of herion in their bodies at all times or they will die. Their bodies get so used to the heroin that without it they go into shock and die. This is what most likely happened to this man. Your senario of the man overdosing in prison is highly unlikely.[/b]

as a pharmacist with rehab experience(worked there not been through it)  I can tell you that this is wrong neither heroin or methadone withdrawals will kill you.  The boy must have overdosed.  quitting heroin cold turkey is  very unpleasant but not fatal.  Alchohol withdrawal can be fatal as well as some other abused substances, but not narcotics like heroin.

Hey mike, don't sweat it, we probably agree on more on things than not. I don't agree with our War on Drugs - you are a soldier of the war on drugs, I was once as well. The more I learned, the more I knew it was political bullshit and had nothing to do about what is good for the people. We busted the little guys while the big guys had fancy lunches with our ambassadors and political dignitaries. We burned one coca field while the next one over the hill was left alone. We bust the small time smuggler at the mexico border while the corrupt DEA agents bring in the big stuff. But let me make this clear - I do not want people to do drugs, but the war on drugs is not the answer, it has failed for decades and who knows how many billions of dollars, we need to try something else. I don't want my kids to do drugs anymore than you do, but the war on drugs is not going to stop them if they want to, hopefully raising them right will, I know I'm trying with my 3 kids.

Mike - I appreciate the men and woman of this country that are brave enough to put on a badge and try to make a difference, however misguided they may be at times. Keep your powder dry watch your six.

You know those discussions we have on occaision about what LE/military would do if ever given the order to confiscate weapons?  Pay attention, folks, here's one that will, just because there's a law against it.

That's not an answer to my question.

Guys, I'd like to point out something here that seems to me the most encouraging thing I've seen in a long, long time.  Out of three pages of posts so far, the opinion is OVERWHELMINGLY in favor of ending the war on drugs.

Sure the Scots have lots of other problems, but now they have at least two topics on which they do have their heads out where the Sun shines.  Single-malts being the other :).

You guys have made me think there might be hope for the human race after all.  

Thank you,

Pat

Pat-Yates - yes there may be hope for us yet, as public opinion changes, the politicians' stands will have to change. I felt some hope when my dad also said he thought the war on drugs was a waste of money and is not accomplishing anything good. Let me tell ya, he is hardcore anti-drug, retired lifer NCO from the army, Vietnam vet, drill sergeant ass-kicker and hell-raiser, if he can change his mind, anyone can.

I think the tide has shifted and more people are realizing that the war on drugs has failed.  Fixing it is another matter entirely, as it requires a total change in mindset.  

One of the problems I see is that the politicians will try to to piece meal it, which will not work.  You cannot reduce the harm until you completely put the dealers out of business.  Prohibition ended, and nobody makes bootleg booze anymore because there is no profit in it.  Unfortunately, they invested their profits in other rackets.

Just offering people treatment instead of jail, does not cut sharply into a dealers business.  He will just start marketing to younger kids, and move into different markets.

Plus, as somebody mentioned previously, there are vested government interests that have $$$ on the line.  There is a huge drug enforcement infrastructure that would not be needed if drugs were legalized.  These people want to keep their jobs and will fight any efforts to end the war.  We would need to give them a new roll as part of the solution.

Actually, they have only half a clue. And the half they're missing is going to hurt them.

Socialist states, such as Scotland, advocating drug decriminalization will screw themselves once their state-mandated support systems (welfare, treatment, etc.) are stretched beyond their means. Ironically, this idea will not "teach responsibility" for onesself as was said - just the opposite, since the support systems will not be ended. Such support and welfare systems reduce the cost of using drugs to the user, and sheild them from the feedback of their choices. That is always a recipe for [i]bad[/i] public policy.

I'm sypmathetic to, if not wholly supportive of libertarian arguments against drug wars. I doubt our founders envisioned their government regulating what people chose to put into their bodies. The very idea is offensive in itself. However, such drug wars cannot be ended [i]before[/i] the support systems that lower the cost of drug use are dismantled. [i]Forcing[/i] people to pay taxes to repair addictions others brought upon themselves is simply tyrannical. And it is difficult to sustain.

If drugs are decriminalized in Scotland, they'll likely see a drop in violence related to the black market. That's good. But don't expect to see fewer addicts.

GREAT POINTS.

For more rational argument with FACTS:

[url]http://www.cato.org/current/drug-war/index.html[/url]

Bulldog OUT

The Drug War, The Gun War and The Terror War are All One in the Same War.

Divide And Conquer.

With the War on Terror Killing Two Birds with one Stone.
The Patriot Act, The One that blew a hole in the Constitution.

Liberation Day, Saturday May 04, 2002
[url]www.cures-not-wars.org/[/url]

Truth Will Liberate Earth.

The government wouldn’t legalize it because it's an illegal/hidden source of Money (i.e.)
for covert operation’s, Iran / Contra’s.

Drug’s and it's problems should be treated the same as Alcohol and Tobacco.

The War has Always been about Racism and Control of People.

^
[url]www.cures-not-wars.org/[/url][size=1] Truth Will Liberate Earth.[/size=1]
[url]www.RKBA.org/antis/hci-master[/url][size=1]Allege [b]feinstein/hci[/b] master plan
for TOTAL Gun Confiscation Dis-Armament.[/size=1]
[url]http://www.DigitalAngel.net/[/url]  [size=1]Revelation 13:18  ID-GPS-MONEY
Implant Micro-chip[/size=1]

[size=1]Never Again, Never Forget
Seek the Truth , Liberate Your Mind
We Are At WAR[/size=1]


FIXED BAYONETS

VX

A twist on a saying I should think we all know here:

Drugs don't kill people, people kill people.

Seriously. Having the right to do drugs does not mean that someone will, unless that is already their inclination, just as the right to own a gun does not mean that everyone will, only those with the inclination to do so.

Just because someone chooses to take drugs once or twice a month at a party, hell every weekend for that matter, does not make them a junkie. Just the same as choosing to own a, or several for that matter, firearm does not make me a murderer.

To take the average drug user, whom you probably couldn't pick out of a line up, and label them a junkie, whom you most likely could pick out, is a ludicrous jump to make. Just as to assume that the average gun owner, again probably not gonna pick him/her out of a line up, and label them murderers, is ludicrous. Admitedly the murderer could be very difficult to pick.

So while I do not agree personally with drug use, and do not participate in it as such, I think we should at least get some kind of positives from the drugs that will be on our streets regardless. Legalize them, tax them, and do not make the tax payers live with the decisions of those who do go to far, (no Govt. funded programs).

Education is the best weapon in our arsenal. If we teach our children about firearm safety, and hammer it in as the gospel that it is, teach them about the VERY real dangers, they are far less likely to choose to play the stupid games that lead to "accidental" shootings. Sadly this is not a garantee, but is is the BEST option. Teach them to respect guns for the enjoyment that can be derrived from them, and for their power. So too should we educate them on the very real dangers of drug use, tell them what they can do to your body, mind, finances. Them if they choose to try drugs maybe they will talk to you about it. Or think about the things you told them, rather than some moronic "Just say no!" that no one else in the room is saying.

I could keep going, but I think this is quite enough for this post.

Legalize them, tax them, and make the users accountable.

I am not advocating LETTING your children use drugs, that is a family matter, and as long as they choose to live under my roof, they will do it without drugs. If they are grown up enough to fully take on their own lives, they are grown up enough to take that life into their own hands, not before, and not with my blessing.

I have to disagree, there are a lot of them who are gun possesors, but not necissarily owners. A stolen gun used in a crime and disgarded, is hardly owned by the actor, merely possesed.

Pardon my argumentativeness, it is the end of a long shift and I am tired. A good day to all.

Cops and the government have a vested interest in the "drug war".  Money and power for the cops, money power and a vehicle toward enslavement for the government.  I am not a user nor a dealer nor do I advocate use of this crap.  I do, however believe if you remove the insane profits from the drug trade many good things happen.  Less incentive to lazy types to deal, less crime to support a much cheaper habit, far less police corruption, less violence.  Those inclined to use dope will still do so although the "forbidden" aspect will be reduced.  It is a clear fact the "war on drugs" is a total failure.  Remains to be seen if a change will occur.

My concern is this:  After prohibition, ATF had little to do and should have been disbanded.  Instead, the NFA was passed to "make work".  What will they come up with for the drug cops?

Great.  Make 'em all Air Marshalls and stop the random groping of airline passengers.