Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Dear Moderators… …please immidiatly lock the account of ANYONE who posts this link again and make the world a better place! ANdy So tell me when they should lock up your account arm chair commando??? Just as soon as this 'Armchair Commando' retires from the Royal Navy…in another 6 years ANdy

What the hell has the royal navy done in this war???? Now if you said Royal Marines or Army them thats somthing but a english squid sorry

my dad made 6 trips to and from the pentagon in a huey carrying wounded. he saw Airplane parts. thats all the testimony i need.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Dear Moderators… What the hell has the royal navy done in this war???? Now if you said Royal Marines or Army them thats somthing but a english squid sorry

The Royal  Marines are PART of the Royal Navy, fully integrated! Thats why I regularly work at RM HQ… The Royal Navy ships gave gunfire and amphibious landing support to both British and US Marines in the landings at the start of the war… and right now are busy patrolling the Northern Gulf and training the Iraqi Coastguard and Navy.

Royal Navy fatalities in Operation Iraqi Freedom…

Lieutenant Philip Green RN
Lieutenant Antony King RN
Lieutenant Marc Lawrence RN
Lieutenant Philip West RN
Lieutenant James Williams RN
Lieutenant Andrew Wilson RN
Operator Mechanic (Comms) 2nd Class Ian Seymour RN

I would not belittle the service and sacrifice of US & other coalition service personnel in Iraq, I would not expect you as a serviceman to do so either.

ANdy

I must have missed the memo...

It's 2:44 am here and right now I have the attention span of a pubescent monkey, so there's no way in hell that I'm going to watch the thing.

Will someone just tell me what the slideshow is about?

Is it some DU propaganda bullshit?

Royal Navy Ships conduct amphibious assault in co-operation with USMC 15MEU on the Al Faw Peninsula and Um Qasr







And fire TLAMs at targets in Baghdad…



And patrol the waters, Oil terminals and clear mines…







And train the Iraqi Coastguard…





Yep… 'What did the Royal Navy do in this war?'… you would never hear a US Navy or USMC servicemen say that.

Andy

ABOVE:

He just posted that to spite you

Quoted: Quoted: Gentlemen, please let it be known that tayous1 is currently fighting in Iraq That does not make make what he posted any less of a steaming pile of bullshit. That said, keep safe tayous1, and thank you for your sacrifice.

I agree but I won't tolerate anyone attacking one of our service members who's putting his life on the line for our safety.

I know we have a very patriotic group here, at arfcom.  By pointing that out, my hopes were to tone down the verbiage and offer a patient and detailed response.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I agree but I won't tolerate anyone attacking one of our service members who's putting his life on the line for our safety.

+1 on that… easy on the language

ANdy

I NEED YOUR HELP!!!! I watch that movie and went through a bunch of webpages till I found a forum. Help me reeducate them.

signs-of-the-times forum

I appreciate a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy and I admit that I wondered why the damage to the Pentagon looked so little like what I would have expected.  I had never heard of the missile theory or the small aircraft theory until this thread.  So I read, studied and absorbed the information presented here and several other places.

Here's the conclusion that I've reached:  There is absolutely nothing that is inconsistent with the facts as they are commonly known.  Clearly a large commercial airliner hit the building.  The F4 test demonstrates that the way the 757 disintegrated is entirely plausible.  The photographic evidence of the aftermath (what little we have) is clear and convincing.  The eyewitness accounts reinforce the facts, even when the witnesses didn't recognize the airliner for what it was.  The damage is completely consistent with the story given the fact that the Pentagon is a multilayer highly reinforced structure.

But here's a bigger question for the naysayers; if American flight 77 didn't crash into the Pentagon, where TF did it go?  And why did it go there?  For what purpose?

As for the Pentagon crash, I'll be sure to discount these conspiracy theorists as the nut jobs they are.  And I have seen some real whackos as a result of studying this.



Andy, I for one sure wouldn't mind if you started an appreciation thread for the sacrifices and struggles our friends in the British forces are enduring on behalf of the world.  There are some great pics there and they deserve their own thread.

BlammO - What many people fail to account for in their theories are the structural retrofits to mitigate vehicle borne improvised explosive devices that the affected wedge received prior to the attack.  The building was basically gutted, and a process applied to strengthen the load capacity of the structural members (which I won't detail here) as well as blast resistent windows added.  The window system had their own structural requirements that were integral to the building retrofit.  When the aircraft struck, the largest amount of damage, I've been told, was by the engines due to their weight (mass) and density as they traveled through the ground floor.  The engines took out the structural columns as they went which weakened the building.  The aviation fuel exploded and began fires that burned at temps well above that of a "normal" fire.  The insulation capability of the concrete that encased the structural steel columns eventually was lost and the steel lost its rigidity.  The blast window systems actually held the facade/building up for about 35-40 minutes before the steel failed and that resulted in the collapse.  I walked the ground and was surprised at the relatively small size of the impact hole and channel it made through the building - which is indicated by the last picture I posted showing the hole through the Naval Ops Ctr.    I'm certainly not an engineer or a fire specialist, so if I got it wrong let me know.  I'll also try and post a pic of the window system so you can see what I'm speaking to.

OK  -let's see how these pics work.

This first picture was taken probably about 20 minutes after the attack as the National Airport crash trucks have arrived.  You can see the intensity of the fire and that the building has shifted, but it is still upright.  You can see the impact hole to the left of center of the picture as well as the blast resistant window systems .



Here is a picture of the same area after the collapse.  You can see the window systems are still structurally sound.



Here's a shot of a troop who worked inside the building recovering remains and who took a moment to reflect.  You can again see the windows.



Here's one for our Marine buds.  The building collapsed along an expansion joint in the building creating a sheer that went directly up the building and leaving some office spaces open.  On the 4th deck (that's some Marine lingo) there was a set of colors that survived the attack and were not secured.  This Major got into a crane bucket and was hoisted to the area where he exited the bucket and retrieved the standard.  This is a pic of him being congratulated as he walked the colors from the scene to the Commandant's Office in Henderson Hall.



P.S.  Image quality is much better on the full sized shots I have.

On 9/11 I was evacuated from the building I worked, in the shadow of the WTC. I looked up at the buildings and saw the perfect formation of a plane in the North tower. There was also lots of airplane on the other side of the building as at least one engine blew completely through the building and across to another. The planes didn't disintergrate as a point of interest to anyone who wants to know. That is according to people in EMS in NYC. I saw the damage to the other buildings and got the reason for what I saw.
I certainly would like to see some pictures of the Pentagon. Lord, knows I saw plenty on 9/11 but I never really saw anything on the Pentagon other than a few photo's and what was posted here.
So if you can get them posted I think all of us would probably be interested.
There is a saying that goes, "Believe only half of what you see and none of what  you hear."

I find it funny that most people are still living under the misconception that the Pentagon is a normal building. Keep in mind people, this building was built with the intention of it being a military bunker. Furthermore the structure has been hardened several times over the years, particularly during the Cold War era.

The section that the plane hit had recently been renovated yet again and had the new measures in place. One which included windows specifically built to resist shatter during a blast. That's why most of the windows in the impact area are either all black or slightly melted.

Some of the buildings in the inner areas were cracked because people were trying to beat them out from the inside. Sometimes I would look at those windows from the breezeway and wonder if those people got out. When we cleared the upper floors, I unfortunately got my answer.

That was particularly sad finding people who were so close to escape but who did not make it.  I've retired from active duty now and our campany (SAIC) and my division is actually teaching Pentagon Evacuation procedures so people can learn what to do in emergencies.  As we all know, in crisis, you revert to your training.

Thanks, Defender3.  The building did exactly what it was designed (and improved) to do.  The plane disintegrated exactly as demonstrated with the F4 video.  All the evidence supports the facts as they are generally known.  The conspiracy theorists are failing miserably on this one.

But my main question to anyone who doubts the facts is this:  If American Airlines flight 77 didn't hit the Pentagon, then where the hell is it???

I find it interesting that the people who have time to dream up the conspiracies don't even address that li'l bit of glaring proof.

You're right on the money Stillie.  If I remember correctly, during our discussions concerning damage areas we noted that to the right of the impact there was considerably more destruction evident.  It was discovered that the new blast-resistant windows in the renovated area prevented the blast compression wave from venting itself to the outside.  As a result, the blast wave traveled further to the right of the impact and caused more damage.

Here's a shot of one of the columns Defender3 was talking about.  This was originally a square concrete column with a coiled and linear rebar core.  You can see the rebar coil at the top of the column.  The concrete had been reduced to its composite elements.  You could touch it and it would disintegrate like a sand castle.


These are a couple of shots of the landing gear strut I mentioned earlier.  This was just inside the alley exit hole Defender3 showed.



Finally, here's a shot of some aircraft part found inside the building and removed to the alley prior to collection by ATF.


E-95