Quoted: Seriously guys, ARDOC especially, I could get  a job as an IB at 125 grand a yr and eventually end up as the screwy douchebag who gets a million dollar bonus. I want to be a doctor for health of patients first. I love to work long hours and I sleep 2 hrs a night as it is. jeff

We can only surmise from what you have posted.  From your posts you are singularily fixated on the financial aspect of medicine.  Thats a consideration but one of the minor ones.  

Ive gotten everything cleared up except that. I understand how you could have mistaken my statements for greedy fiscal gluttony, but yeah definately, I have thought over everything except how to pay for medschool and support a family. Now that I am getting closer and closer to medschool I need to start thinking about these things. I really appreciate your help ARDOC. Thanks

Quoted: Ive gotten everything cleared up except that. I understand how you could have mistaken my statements for greedy fiscal gluttony, but yeah definately, I have thought over everything except how to pay for medschool and support a family. Now that I am getting closer and closer to medschool I need to start thinking about these things. I really appreciate your help ARDOC. Thanks

Not busting your balls. Only hoping you know why and what you are getting into medicine.  DrJarhead, me and others have had eal with a lot of BS.  He has already called it quits.  I would have too but I have too many bills too and I still love the job and seeing patients.  But Kevin has put in a lot more years then me.

Goodluck with your future.

Quoted: Quoted: www.salary.com fantasy land. I know this isnt right out of med school but for CT surgeons this is the mean salary. Adjust that income projection for insurance premiums... I was pre-med for some time in college, and my own physician had a talk with me about the future of the medical profession, especially dealing with insurance companies for payment and for malpractice policies.  He strongly advised me not to enter medicine, at least not as an MD.  After considering that and a couple of other reasons, I decided to change my academic path. Jim

I had an Emergency Medicene Doc talk me out of Med Axhool. I was premed too for my undergrad, for about a week.

He said after the loans, malpractice insurance, hours away from family, years spent in school that defer starting a family, the money wasn't worth it.

He said unless you really want to be a MD don't do it, don't do it for the money.

Quoted: Sounds like you want to be a doctor for the money.  You will make the worst kind of doctor.  I would advise you to do something else.

In case you missed it, jhgray2.

We do need enthusiastic young people interested in medicine, but be very certain of your motives.  

And, as people have posted, medicine today is not what it was 15-20+ years ago.  Medicine is getting Socialized much more rapidly than any other area of society.  Even a 'conservative' gov't managed to shove a Medicare Drug Plan down our throats.  In 15 years it may be financially impossible to practice medicine 'independently' and instead you will be a salaried slave at a gov't-run hospital.  Just to put things into perspective if $$ is anywhere near the top of the list for reasons to go into medicine.    

Another JMS chiming in (Ipsi is too IIRC).

Don't do it for the money.  There's too much bs, and things are changing -- for the worst -- FAST.  There will be a huge meltdown within your practice lifetime.  At least it's always darkest just before the dawn, so who knows.

Anyway, if you're in college now, you'd be surprised what it's really like.  Medical school and then subsequently medical practice is really nothing like the lay public imagines it.

Quoted: Another JMS chiming in (Ipsi is too IIRC). Don't do it for the money.  There's too much bs, and things are changing -- for the worst -- FAST.  There will be a huge meltdown within your practice lifetime.  At least it's always darkest just before the dawn, so who knows. Anyway, if you're in college now, you'd be surprised what it's really like.  Medical school and then subsequently medical practice is really nothing like the lay public imagines it.

Dude dont tell them about the naked womenz and the free booze!  More slip ups like that and we will have to kick your ass out!

The biggest problem with reimbursement is docs keep signing the contracts agreeing to take less pay for the same amount of work

Well, when the 2 or 3 biggest insurers in your area tell you "take it or leave it", you are kind of stuck.   Medicare is as bad or worse--cut reimbursements, can assume fraud without proof, etc. etc.  

I'm just (10 days) finishing a Podiatry Residency....

Same thing as the other guys have said.   Don't go into Medicine for the money.     You will make a living, but it is not the high 6 figures that you refer to.   All the old Podiatrists complain about how there is no money in it anymore.   They are right.   You get paid 25% of what they did for the same surgery 15 years ago.   Office visits are 50% or less.

See ARDoc's Link:

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=456006&page=1

For the Tumor he pulled out today.

I would bet (depending on the region) that his Surgeon's fee probably wouldn't get him a nice, brand name AR  for all the work on the surgery.  That includes (probably) a 90 day global period (post-op care--all the subsequent office visits, dressing changes, suture/staple removal, etc. is included in that fee).  

That is assuming the patient has at least moderate insurance (he would likely bill more for the surgery, but the insurance will reimburse according to their contract).  

If the patient has Medicaid, then his fee probably wouldn't get him a decent stamped AK.

AFARR

Not only does she have medicaid, she has a HMO medicaid!

I will be lucky to get a Hesse AK or some sort of Lorcen with what they will pay.

Blue Cross Blue Shield traditional would have allowed me to buy a class III weapon.

Quoted: Not busting your balls. Only hoping you know why and what you are getting into medicine.  DrJarhead, me and others have had eal with a lot of BS.  He has already called it quits.  I would have too but I have too many bills too and I still love the job and seeing patients.  But Kevin has put in a lot more years then me.

Kevin has an interview tomorrow with the VA.
Not at the VA hosp but a CBOC(clinic) 100miles away. I would like taking care of vets, no doubt. That actually has me pretty excited. The VA System....well, we shall see. Not jumping into anything and my days of doing corporate medicine are finished AFAIC.  Sick of Burger King medicine crap.

I would still like to have my own clinc but the headaches and overhead are huge. I have decided attorneys have it made. Virtually no staff, no expensive equipment, little in the way of malpractice and the .gov leaves them the hell alone.

I did meet with a doc who is locally part of a 2 doc clinic looking for a third. That was last week. Very disappointing and it seems that it would be a mistake for me. I won't go into details but I am pretty damn sure I would be unhappy there. To cap it all off, at the end he said he "would ask his wife about it."  WTF???

My short temporary retirement has been very, very nice. Happier than I can ever remember being. Wife and I get along great even with me around all the time. I excercise daily, get out in the forest anytime I want and shoot all the damn time(ammo will be a problem ).I will have no problem with retirement.

Anyhow wish me luck.

One of the best things medically has been making sure my own family has been taken care of.

Another would be if there is ever SHTF you would be indespensable as opposed to say business execs, attorneys, insurance salesmen, you get the drift. Nothing much paper pushers are going to be good for.  Doctors on the other hand...

If you go on the survival forum you will see that for virtually everyone, docs are on the top of the list, as for who people will want around.

Just as the others have said, to go into medicine for the monetary aspect is a huge mistake. There are plenty of other fields to explore where compensation is good without the aggravations seen in medicine. Malpractice and insurance are enormous headaches that are inescapable in medicine. Some specialties pay up to $250k/yr for malpractice insurance  - if they even can find a willing carrier. Insurance reimbursement is a nightmare of complexity and BS. The population in general has only higher expectations each year for miracle cures, and the dems push for the concept of health care as a right.

That being said, there is still very good compensation in medicine if you are willing to work hard and are in certain fields. Tort reform is gathering momentum - Texas has started the ball rolling. The demand for physicians will always be high, and US trained doctors can get a job anywhere in the world. There is also still the gratification of helping people in need.

PA is bad for most physicians (Podiatry is not too bad--generally $15k for a surgical podiatrist malpractice), but OB/Gyns are leaving in droves.  

I'm a firm believer that there will be major changes in the structure of medicine within the next decade.  
Malpractice/Tort reform and in fee schedules.  

Right now, there are many, many people taking a share of the healthcare $$.  Administration (Both on the Insurance & Hosptial/Practice ends), Insurance, Malpractice, etc. all are sucking in the healthcare $.    None of this money goes to the patients direct care.

Malpractice will also change.   I've said it repeatedly--it will take some Senator's or Representative's Daughter dying in childbirth because they cannot get to a Good OB/Gyn in time (because there are fewer and fewer remaining in practice due to the Malpractice).  


For those that don't recognize the terminology--ARDoc did surgery on a 'welfare' (Medicaid) patient.    In an attempt to cut costs in the Medicaid program (because $17 to the Doctor for an office visit was FAR too much money), they started a Medicaid HMO program.   Many areas require you to join the HMO once you get Medicaid.    That added another layer of administration, and reduced the amount they paid to the doctors.  

So, if I send ARDoc $0.59, and he puts that with what he got for the surgery and post-op visits, he can buy a cup of coffee at 7-11.     As he said, you don't do it for the money--he's happy that the patient will be pain free and healthy, regardless of what he received for the surgery.


Looks like a fun case.


AFARR

DrJarhead,

Good luck with the VA interview.   Aside from the Admininstration BS (that happens anywhere), my youngest attending has said he would take the VA in a heartbeat.   He has a buddy--works 4 10 hr days, has healthcare and retirement, and can moonlight if he wants to make a bit of extra money.  The Podiatrist at the VA make fairly low $$ on the salary scale for podiatry, but the time off and other benefits more than make up for it.

AFARR

Quoted: DrJarhead, Good luck with the VA interview.   Aside from the Admininstration BS (that happens anywhere), my youngest attending has said he would take the VA in a heartbeat.   He has a buddy--works 4 10 hr days, has healthcare and retirement, and can moonlight if he wants to make a bit of extra money.  The Podiatrist at the VA make fairly low $$ on the salary scale for podiatry, but the time off and other benefits more than make up for it. AFARR

Went well today. It was cool to see all the Vets.
Where I went to interview though is about 120mi from the CBOC I'd be working in. Currently under construction so I can't see the facility.

The package they are talking about ain't bad and it will be more time off than I am used to.

They have it down to me and one other person so we'll see. I am going to have to think about it and so are they.

The other place I looked into called me today and want to talk to me again. That one is a private clinic and I did talk with them last week but I have serious reservations. Not sure if I am going to meet with them again or not. I am leaning strongly against but it doesn't hurt to talk with them I guess.  
I am not to interested in corporate medicine anymore. Pure bullshit. If overhead wasn't so huge I would open my own clinic tomorrow.

Quoted: Quoted: DrJarhead, Good luck with the VA interview.   Aside from the Admininstration BS (that happens anywhere), my youngest attending has said he would take the VA in a heartbeat.   He has a buddy--works 4 10 hr days, has healthcare and retirement, and can moonlight if he wants to make a bit of extra money.  The Podiatrist at the VA make fairly low $$ on the salary scale for podiatry, but the time off and other benefits more than make up for it. AFARR Went well today. It was cool to see all the Vets. Where I went to interview though is about 120mi from the CBOC I'd be working in. Currently under construction so I can't see the facility. The package they are talking about ain't bad and it will be more time off than I am used to. They have it down to me and one other person so we'll see. I am going to have to think about it and so are they. The other place I looked into called me today and want to talk to me again. That one is a private clinic and I did talk with them last week but I have serious reservations. Not sure if I am going to meet with them again or not. I am leaning strongly against but it doesn't hurt to talk with them I guess.   I am not to interested in corporate medicine anymore. Pure bullshit. If overhead wasn't so huge I would open my own clinic tomorrow.

Kevin I am sure you going to do fine.  Just dont tell them about your guns and tinfoil hat.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: DrJarhead, Good luck with the VA interview.   Aside from the Admininstration BS (that happens anywhere), my youngest attending has said he would take the VA in a heartbeat.   He has a buddy--works 4 10 hr days, has healthcare and retirement, and can moonlight if he wants to make a bit of extra money.  The Podiatrist at the VA make fairly low $$ on the salary scale for podiatry, but the time off and other benefits more than make up for it. AFARR Went well today. It was cool to see all the Vets. Where I went to interview though is about 120mi from the CBOC I'd be working in. Currently under construction so I can't see the facility. The package they are talking about ain't bad and it will be more time off than I am used to. They have it down to me and one other person so we'll see. I am going to have to think about it and so are they. The other place I looked into called me today and want to talk to me again. That one is a private clinic and I did talk with them last week but I have serious reservations. Not sure if I am going to meet with them again or not. I am leaning strongly against but it doesn't hurt to talk with them I guess.   I am not to interested in corporate medicine anymore. Pure bullshit. If overhead wasn't so huge I would open my own clinic tomorrow. Kevin I am sure you going to do fine.  Just dont tell them about your guns and tinfoil hat.

I wore the tinfoil.
Do you think that was a bad move?