Police-ordered DWI blood tests creating a furor - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Police-ordered DWI blood tests creating a furor (Page 2 of 4)

Posted: 7/27/2009 6:21:25 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
i order blood tests all the time. especially where there is p.c. to believe that there are drugs present besides alcohol. Not a big deal here. If they refuse a blood , or breath test, they lose their license to operate in this state. The type of test administered is Officer discretion.

and this is the point, if I dont blow or refuse the tests, ill loose the licence for a year, with no DUI on the record.

Posted: 7/27/2009 6:23:25 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
i order blood tests all the time. especially where there is p.c. to believe that there are drugs present besides alcohol. Not a big deal here. If they refuse a blood , or breath test, they lose their license to operate in this state. The type of test administered is Officer discretion.

and this is the point, if I dont blow or refuse the tests, ill loose the licence for a year, with no DUI on the record.

It will still go to court. Seen a lot of refusals go to court and get convicted.

Posted: 7/27/2009 6:25:56 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:

How do they get a needle in the vein of someone resisting? And all the people who gave their life for this country and it's come to this.

Strap them down at the hospital. Cops in Texas get a subpoena if there is wreck involved and say your wife was hurt bad in the wreck. Or they get a warrant, i.e. no refusal weekend.

YES, i think thats OK, I also think that were talking about 'giving officers the sole discression'; IE: typical pull over for DUI (.. if im not missing anything. Am I?)

Posted: 7/27/2009 6:27:39 PM EDT

[#4]

trdvet: so simply saying nothing will still get you busted?

Posted: 7/27/2009 6:35:40 PM EDT

[#5]

RustyBob,
My post just flew right over your head didn't it?

I have relatives who are cops so I'm not down on all LEOs. Disclaimer is now out of the way.

My point is that incremental degradation of the constitution has progressed to the point that you, yes, you, don't even think about the violation of the intent of the framers. You just do your job, without nary a thought about trampling on the COTUS. It's taken a long time, but now the excuse is "it's legal'. Reminds me of the emperor in Star Wars: " I will MAKE it legal. Just because the black robes say it is okay doesn't make it ok. it just makes it 'legal'. Your post almost dripped with glee at the ability and power you had to do this (thus reinforcing our stereotypes of cops as fry cooks with guns on a power trip). By the way I work for the largest supplier of police equipment in the world and you probably use the stuff I design every day in your job. I'm the one that enables you to automatically read a license plate and other nice tools on your light bar and in your car's computer.
It's sad. I hate drunk driving but the ability of a cop to drag me out and have a blood test done on me just because he has that discretion is just repulsive. I sure as hell don't want to blow in that damned breathalyzer, but a blood test is invasive by definition. If you looked at the post on the history of the 5th amendment you would see the intent and just how far we have come from this. The idea of an arrogant legislature saying that the mere use of a car is license to suspend part of the BOR is repulsive. I know: It's legal.

Posted: 7/27/2009 6:39:19 PM EDT

[#6]

Gotta protect the drunk driver's rights, even if they run over and kill you. That's how America works. I support those killer's Fifth Amendment Rights after they've had a Fifth

Posted: 7/27/2009 6:40:08 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
RustyBob,
My post just flew right over your head didn't it?

I have relatives who are cops so I'm not down on all LEOs. Disclaimer is now out of the way.

My point is that incremental degradation of the constitution has progressed to the point that you, yes, you, don't even think about the violation of the intent of the framers. You just do your job, without nary a thought about trampling on the COTUS. It's taken a long time, but now the excuse is "it's legal'. Reminds me of the emperor in Star Wars: " I will MAKE it legal. Just because the black robes say it is okay doesn't make it ok. it just makes it 'legal'. Your post almost dripped with glee at the ability and power you had to do this (thus reinforcing our stereotypes of cops as fry cooks with guns on a power trip). By the way I work for the largest supplier of police equipment in the world and you probably use the stuff I design every day in your job. I'm the one that enables you to automatically read a license plate and other nice tools on your light bar and in your car's computer.
It's sad. I hate drunk driving but the ability of a cop to drag me out and have a blood test done on me just because he has that discretion is just repulsive. I sure as hell don't want to blow in that damned breathalyzer, but a blood test is invasive by definition. If you looked at the post on the history of the 5th amendment you would see the intent and just how far we have come from this. The idea of an arrogant legislature saying that the mere use of a car is license to suspend part of the BOR is repulsive. I know: It's legal.

I am voting for YOU!!

Posted: 7/27/2009 6:41:33 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
RustyBob,
My post just flew right over your head didn't it?

I have relatives who are cops so I'm not down on all LEOs. Disclaimer is now out of the way.

My point is that incremental degradation of the constitution has progressed to the point that you, yes, you, don't even think about the violation of the intent of the framers. You just do your job, without nary a thought about trampling on the COTUS. It's taken a long time, but now the excuse is "it's legal'. Reminds me of the emperor in Star Wars: " I will MAKE it legal. Just because the black robes say it is okay doesn't make it ok. it just makes it 'legal'. Your post almost dripped with glee at the ability and power you had to do this (thus reinforcing our stereotypes of cops as fry cooks with guns on a power trip). By the way I work for the largest supplier of police equipment in the world and you probably use the stuff I design every day in your job. I'm the one that enables you to automatically read a license plate and other nice tools on your light bar and in your car's computer.
It's sad. I hate drunk driving but the ability of a cop to drag me out and have a blood test done on me just because he has that discretion is just repulsive. I sure as hell don't want to blow in that damned breathalyzer, but a blood test is invasive by definition. If you looked at the post on the history of the 5th amendment you would see the intent and just how far we have come from this. The idea of an arrogant legislature saying that the mere use of a car is license to suspend part of the BOR is repulsive. I know: It's legal.

Posted: 7/27/2009 6:41:54 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Gotta protect the drunk driver's rights, even if they run over and kill you. That's how America works. I support those killer's Fifth Amendment Rights after they've had a Fifth

we are talking about the typical- non crash- non injury stop.

Posted: 7/27/2009 6:51:02 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

It'll be interesting to see unlicensed phlebotomists in a licensing board's crosshairs.

The article said that they can get the blood drawn, not take it themselves.

“It's a violation of our constitution right to privacy, and right to be free from unreasonable search, and that's what this is, an unreasonable search,” said attorney Tyler Flood.

Sounds like Tyler Flood has never heard of an implied consent offense.
I just want to add that its a hell of a lot easier to convict on a refusal than actually getting the BAC. All you have to do is testify to what they were doing and how they were acting. Then forming your opinion as to their level of impairment.

Posted: 7/27/2009 6:53:21 PM EDT

[#11]

DUI laws are about money...it's a three dimensional money pit.

If keeping drunks off the road really was top priority, we would have interlocks on every vehicle. If a vehicle could not be operated (car, train, bus plane...ect.) the world would really be safer. There would be no drunks on the road, but we wouldn't need all the cops, judges, lawyers, counselors, insurance companies, and rehab centers.

So which freedom are you willing to give up? Freedom to get drunk and drive, or the freedom to refuse blood testing.

I vote prohibition.....

Posted: 7/27/2009 6:57:28 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:

There are too many ways to comprimise the integrity of the specimin,]

This says it all.

Venipuncture isn't exactly difficult, but it sure is easy to screw up if someone doesn't know what they're doing. There is an assumed right to be free of needless harm inflicted by those tasked with serving protecting us. I'd rather not have a massive hematoma because someone on the side of the road decided to just jerk the needle out without popping the vacuum tube first.

I choose to abstain from alcohol, but I also recognize that there are limits bounds that our local and federal authorities need to adhere to.

ETA: I guess it would help if I read the whole article before blabbing, huh?

Not sure how this will work in TX but in SD we do this every night. If charged with DWI in SD you will give blood or we WILL take it per state law. 32-23-10

We also have a RN on staff 24/7 to do this. We also have the man power to TAKE the blood when we have to,

Suspect has HIV and Hep-C, plus sores on their body from God knows what. Are you still going to roll around with him and try to TAKE blood for one more misdemeanor beef or just charge him for non compliance and resisting?

Posted: 7/27/2009 6:59:44 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Suspect has HIV and Hep-C, plus sores on their body from God knows what. Are you still going to roll around with him and try to TAKE blood for one more misdemeanor beef or just charge him for non compliance and resisting?

If they were smart they would glove up etc and get enough guys there to handle the situation.

Posted: 7/27/2009 7:02:02 PM EDT

[#14]

Laws like this are why cops get shot.

Posted: 7/27/2009 7:02:16 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:

There are too many ways to comprimise the integrity of the specimin,]

This says it all.

Venipuncture isn't exactly difficult, but it sure is easy to screw up if someone doesn't know what they're doing. There is an assumed right to be free of needless harm inflicted by those tasked with serving protecting us. I'd rather not have a massive hematoma because someone on the side of the road decided to just jerk the needle out without popping the vacuum tube first.

I choose to abstain from alcohol, but I also recognize that there are limits bounds that our local and federal authorities need to adhere to.

ETA: I guess it would help if I read the whole article before blabbing, huh?

Not sure how this will work in TX but in SD we do this every night. If charged with DWI in SD you will give blood or we WILL take it per state law. 32-23-10
We also have a RN on staff 24/7 to do this. We also have the man power to TAKE the blood when we have to,

We hardly ever go out any more. If we want to have alcohol we stay at home with friends and cook. They stay over.

Never invite the "Man" into your life.

Posted: 7/27/2009 7:05:28 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:

There are too many ways to comprimise the integrity of the specimin,]

This says it all.

Venipuncture isn't exactly difficult, but it sure is easy to screw up if someone doesn't know what they're doing. There is an assumed right to be free of needless harm inflicted by those tasked with serving protecting us. I'd rather not have a massive hematoma because someone on the side of the road decided to just jerk the needle out without popping the vacuum tube first.

I choose to abstain from alcohol, but I also recognize that there are limits bounds that our local and federal authorities need to adhere to.

ETA: I guess it would help if I read the whole article before blabbing, huh?

Not sure how this will work in TX but in SD we do this every night. If charged with DWI in SD you will give blood or we WILL take it per state law. 32-23-10
We also have a RN on staff 24/7 to do this. We also have the man power to TAKE the blood when we have to,

We hardly ever go out any more. If we want to have alcohol we stay at home with friends and cook. They stay over.

Never invite the "Man" into your life.

Yep.

No way I have a single drink and drive.

Posted: 7/27/2009 7:05:31 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Suspect has HIV and Hep-C, plus sores on their body from God knows what. Are you still going to roll around with him and try to TAKE blood for one more misdemeanor beef or just charge him for non compliance and resisting?

If they were smart they would glove up etc and get enough guys there to handle the situation.

For a murdercase I can see but just for a misdeamor, is the DA in the county that hard up?

Posted: 7/27/2009 7:06:00 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Never invite the "Man" into your life.

Posted: 7/27/2009 7:18:42 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Never invite the "Man" into your life.

this

Posted: 7/27/2009 7:20:46 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
RustyBob,
My post just flew right over your head didn't it?

I have relatives who are cops so I'm not down on all LEOs. Disclaimer is now out of the way.

My point is that incremental degradation of the constitution has progressed to the point that you, yes, you, don't even think about the violation of the intent of the framers. You just do your job, without nary a thought about trampling on the COTUS. It's taken a long time, but now the excuse is "it's legal'. Reminds me of the emperor in Star Wars: " I will MAKE it legal. Just because the black robes say it is okay doesn't make it ok. it just makes it 'legal'. Your post almost dripped with glee at the ability and power you had to do this (thus reinforcing our stereotypes of cops as fry cooks with guns on a power trip). By the way I work for the largest supplier of police equipment in the world and you probably use the stuff I design every day in your job. I'm the one that enables you to automatically read a license plate and other nice tools on your light bar and in your car's computer.
It's sad. I hate drunk driving but the ability of a cop to drag me out and have a blood test done on me just because he has that discretion is just repulsive. I sure as hell don't want to blow in that damned breathalyzer, but a blood test is invasive by definition. If you looked at the post on the history of the 5th amendment you would see the intent and just how far we have come from this. The idea of an arrogant legislature saying that the mere use of a car is license to suspend part of the BOR is repulsive. I know: It's legal.

1 Implied consent offense. Dont consent dont drive and you will never have to give blood.

2 Discretion has nothing to do with it. If the officer has PC for DWI, implied consent says you have consented to the withdralw of your blood.

Posted: 7/27/2009 7:21:49 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Never invite the "Man" into your life.

this

Agreed, but sometimes The Man doesn't knock and he lets himself in.

Posted: 7/27/2009 7:22:15 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Suspect has HIV and Hep-C, plus sores on their body from God knows what. Are you still going to roll around with him and try to TAKE blood for one more misdemeanor beef or just charge him for non compliance and resisting?

If they were smart they would glove up etc and get enough guys there to handle the situation.

That is just what we do.

Posted: 7/27/2009 7:23:55 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
RustyBob,
My post just flew right over your head didn't it?

I have relatives who are cops so I'm not down on all LEOs. Disclaimer is now out of the way.

My point is that incremental degradation of the constitution has progressed to the point that you, yes, you, don't even think about the violation of the intent of the framers. You just do your job, without nary a thought about trampling on the COTUS. It's taken a long time, but now the excuse is "it's legal'. Reminds me of the emperor in Star Wars: " I will MAKE it legal. Just because the black robes say it is okay doesn't make it ok. it just makes it 'legal'. Your post almost dripped with glee at the ability and power you had to do this (thus reinforcing our stereotypes of cops as fry cooks with guns on a power trip). By the way I work for the largest supplier of police equipment in the world and you probably use the stuff I design every day in your job. I'm the one that enables you to automatically read a license plate and other nice tools on your light bar and in your car's computer.
It's sad. I hate drunk driving but the ability of a cop to drag me out and have a blood test done on me just because he has that discretion is just repulsive. I sure as hell don't want to blow in that damned breathalyzer, but a blood test is invasive by definition. If you looked at the post on the history of the 5th amendment you would see the intent and just how far we have come from this. The idea of an arrogant legislature saying that the mere use of a car is license to suspend part of the BOR is repulsive. I know: It's legal.

My only problem with this post is that it's too long to fit on a bumper sticker. Thumbs-up, sir.

Posted: 7/27/2009 7:25:56 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
RustyBob,
My post just flew right over your head didn't it?

I have relatives who are cops so I'm not down on all LEOs. Disclaimer is now out of the way.

My point is that incremental degradation of the constitution has progressed to the point that you, yes, you, don't even think about the violation of the intent of the framers. You just do your job, without nary a thought about trampling on the COTUS. It's taken a long time, but now the excuse is "it's legal'. Reminds me of the emperor in Star Wars: " I will MAKE it legal. Just because the black robes say it is okay doesn't make it ok. it just makes it 'legal'. Your post almost dripped with glee at the ability and power you had to do this (thus reinforcing our stereotypes of cops as fry cooks with guns on a power trip). By the way I work for the largest supplier of police equipment in the world and you probably use the stuff I design every day in your job. I'm the one that enables you to automatically read a license plate and other nice tools on your light bar and in your car's computer.
It's sad. I hate drunk driving but the ability of a cop to drag me out and have a blood test done on me just because he has that discretion is just repulsive. I sure as hell don't want to blow in that damned breathalyzer, but a blood test is invasive by definition. If you looked at the post on the history of the 5th amendment you would see the intent and just how far we have come from this. The idea of an arrogant legislature saying that the mere use of a car is license to suspend part of the BOR is repulsive. I know: It's legal.

1 Implied consent offense. Dont consent dont drive and you will never have to give blood.

2 Discretion has nothing to do with it. If the officer has PC for DWI, implied consent says you have consented to the withdralw of your blood.

the point <––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––> you

Posted: 7/27/2009 7:28:50 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
RustyBob,
My post just flew right over your head didn't it?

I have relatives who are cops so I'm not down on all LEOs. Disclaimer is now out of the way.

My point is that incremental degradation of the constitution has progressed to the point that you, yes, you, don't even think about the violation of the intent of the framers. You just do your job, without nary a thought about trampling on the COTUS. It's taken a long time, but now the excuse is "it's legal'. Reminds me of the emperor in Star Wars: " I will MAKE it legal. Just because the black robes say it is okay doesn't make it ok. it just makes it 'legal'. Your post almost dripped with glee at the ability and power you had to do this (thus reinforcing our stereotypes of cops as fry cooks with guns on a power trip). By the way I work for the largest supplier of police equipment in the world and you probably use the stuff I design every day in your job. I'm the one that enables you to automatically read a license plate and other nice tools on your light bar and in your car's computer.
It's sad. I hate drunk driving but the ability of a cop to drag me out and have a blood test done on me just because he has that discretion is just repulsive. I sure as hell don't want to blow in that damned breathalyzer, but a blood test is invasive by definition. If you looked at the post on the history of the 5th amendment you would see the intent and just how far we have come from this. The idea of an arrogant legislature saying that the mere use of a car is license to suspend part of the BOR is repulsive. I know: It's legal.

1 Implied consent offense. Dont consent dont drive and you will never have to give blood.

2 Discretion has nothing to do with it. If the officer has PC for DWI, implied consent says you have consented to the withdralw of your blood.

the point <––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––> you

Posted: 7/27/2009 7:29:59 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
RustyBob,
My post just flew right over your head didn't it?

I have relatives who are cops so I'm not down on all LEOs. Disclaimer is now out of the way.

My point is that incremental degradation of the constitution has progressed to the point that you, yes, you, don't even think about the violation of the intent of the framers. You just do your job, without nary a thought about trampling on the COTUS. It's taken a long time, but now the excuse is "it's legal'. Reminds me of the emperor in Star Wars: " I will MAKE it legal. Just because the black robes say it is okay doesn't make it ok. it just makes it 'legal'. Your post almost dripped with glee at the ability and power you had to do this (thus reinforcing our stereotypes of cops as fry cooks with guns on a power trip). By the way I work for the largest supplier of police equipment in the world and you probably use the stuff I design every day in your job. I'm the one that enables you to automatically read a license plate and other nice tools on your light bar and in your car's computer.
It's sad. I hate drunk driving but the ability of a cop to drag me out and have a blood test done on me just because he has that discretion is just repulsive. I sure as hell don't want to blow in that damned breathalyzer, but a blood test is invasive by definition. If you looked at the post on the history of the 5th amendment you would see the intent and just how far we have come from this. The idea of an arrogant legislature saying that the mere use of a car is license to suspend part of the BOR is repulsive. I know: It's legal.

1 Implied consent offense. Dont consent dont drive and you will never have to give blood.

2 Discretion has nothing to do with it. If the officer has PC for DWI, implied consent says you have consented to the withdralw of your blood.

Yep. I was going to post something praising the cops, they've got a tough job, and I can understand some of this stuff, blah, blah, blah..

But no. RB still doesn't get it. Look at response #1. "Don't drive and you will never have to give blood" WTF? Man, you really are a robot. And to think people actually died to protect our country and our rights.
You are BATFE material for sure.
I'm going to bed.

Posted: 7/27/2009 7:32:15 PM EDT

[#27]

(1) This should be done with a warrant. Please, like a warrant is too much of a burden for this.
(2) This should be done by medical personnel. I know cops are super humans who combine all the best traits of military special forces, attorneys, moral philosophers, and doctors, but let's be on the safe side on this one.

Posted: 7/27/2009 7:36:07 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Suspect has HIV and Hep-C, plus sores on their body from God knows what. Are you still going to roll around with him and try to TAKE blood for one more misdemeanor beef or just charge him for non compliance and resisting?

If they were smart they would glove up etc and get enough guys there to handle the situation.

That is just what we do.

The reason I ask is LEO friend was in a situation similar to this and they already had a number of misdeamonr charges on the perp. Apparantly perp was not going to be compliant with a blood draw. LEO friend made the call not to forcefully take blood as he put it to me "Why am I going to risk my or the officers working with me health for a additional misdemeanor charge since we already have stuff on the books to charge him with for not being compliant on top of the other charges."

Posted: 7/27/2009 7:37:35 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Laws like this are why cops get shot.

Statements like this is why people get banned.

Posted: 7/27/2009 7:38:12 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

How do they get a needle in the vein of someone resisting? And all the people who gave their life for this country and it's come to this.

Really isn't that hard. Couple of cops, couple of nurses. Handcuff their wrists to the bed, lock their elbow and everyone else lays on them.

Someone sticks them and ta da, blood draw.

Posted: 7/27/2009 7:38:33 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
RustyBob,
My post just flew right over your head didn't it?

I have relatives who are cops so I'm not down on all LEOs. Disclaimer is now out of the way.

My point is that incremental degradation of the constitution has progressed to the point that you, yes, you, don't even think about the violation of the intent of the framers. You just do your job, without nary a thought about trampling on the COTUS. It's taken a long time, but now the excuse is "it's legal'. Reminds me of the emperor in Star Wars: " I will MAKE it legal. Just because the black robes say it is okay doesn't make it ok. it just makes it 'legal'. Your post almost dripped with glee at the ability and power you had to do this (thus reinforcing our stereotypes of cops as fry cooks with guns on a power trip). By the way I work for the largest supplier of police equipment in the world and you probably use the stuff I design every day in your job. I'm the one that enables you to automatically read a license plate and other nice tools on your light bar and in your car's computer.
It's sad. I hate drunk driving but the ability of a cop to drag me out and have a blood test done on me just because he has that discretion is just repulsive. I sure as hell don't want to blow in that damned breathalyzer, but a blood test is invasive by definition. If you looked at the post on the history of the 5th amendment you would see the intent and just how far we have come from this. The idea of an arrogant legislature saying that the mere use of a car is license to suspend part of the BOR is repulsive. I know: It's legal.

1 Implied consent offense. Dont consent dont drive and you will never have to give blood.

2 Discretion has nothing to do with it. If the officer has PC for DWI, implied consent says you have consented to the withdralw of your blood.

I get it. You are sworn to uphold the law. EDIT:note- i dont drink and drive, so this is acedemic. I just cant stand the 'bastardization' of the USCON and BOR. So many cops that i know have a difficult job and I dont want it. It simply amazes mt that we have the '5th' and SD (and others) took it away. whats next?

Posted: 7/27/2009 7:39:58 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

1 Implied consent offense. Dont consent dont drive and you will never have to give blood.

2 Discretion has nothing to do with it. If the officer has PC for DWI, implied consent says you have consented to the withdralw of your blood.

Implied consent has its limits. Can you toss my car just because it is on a public road? Can you toss my garage since it holds a car that drives on the road? Can you toss my house because it is connected to that garage?

This is the very definition of invasive and should only be done on order of a judge.

Posted: 7/27/2009 7:40:04 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

man, what's up with texas.

first they want to pass a law to arrest people who don't leave during a hurricane and now forced blood tests.

Posted: 7/27/2009 7:40:30 PM EDT

[#34]

Someone who comes at me with a syringe or needle is in direct breech of my right to defend with deadly force..

Just sayin.

Posted: 7/27/2009 7:44:15 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:

How do they get a needle in the vein of someone resisting? And all the people who gave their life for this country and it's come to this.

Really isn't that hard. Couple of cops, couple of nurses. Handcuff their wrists to the bed, lock their elbow and everyone else lays on them.

Someone sticks them and ta da, blood draw.

+1
I've gotten a couple dozen search warrants to forcibly take blood. I never had a nurse or doctor in an ER refuse to help out during a forcible removal. I'll let you in on a little trade secret. ER people have seen the carnage of drunk driving up close and will do what needs to be done. The nurses I met hated drunk drivers more than any cop I knew.

Posted: 7/27/2009 7:48:33 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:

How do they get a needle in the vein of someone resisting? And all the people who gave their life for this country and it's come to this.

Really isn't that hard. Couple of cops, couple of nurses. Handcuff their wrists to the bed, lock their elbow and everyone else lays on them.

Someone sticks them and ta da, blood draw.

+1
I've gotten a couple dozen search warrants to forcibly take blood. I never had a nurse or doctor in an ER refuse to help out during a forcible removal. I'll let you in on a little trade secret. ER people have seen the carnage of drunk driving up close and will do what needs to be done. The nurses I met hated drunk drivers more than any cop I knew.

its a conspiracy

Posted: 7/27/2009 7:50:07 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:

There are too many ways to comprimise the integrity of the specimin,]

This says it all.

Venipuncture isn't exactly difficult, but it sure is easy to screw up if someone doesn't know what they're doing. There is an assumed right to be free of needless harm inflicted by those tasked with serving protecting us. I'd rather not have a massive hematoma because someone on the side of the road decided to just jerk the needle out without popping the vacuum tube first.

I choose to abstain from alcohol, but I also recognize that there are limits bounds that our local and federal authorities need to adhere to.

ETA: I guess it would help if I read the whole article before blabbing, huh?

Not sure how this will work in TX but in SD we do this every night. If charged with DWI in SD you will give blood or we WILL take it per state law. 32-23-10
We also have a RN on staff 24/7 to do this. We also have the man power to TAKE the blood when we have to,

I'm sure you're proud of harming people to take their blood.

asshat

Posted: 7/27/2009 7:51:58 PM EDT

[#38]

Don't know how this affects people on this board, but I don't plan on driving under any influence, this is why I have a cell phone, call someone to come get me.

Posted: 7/27/2009 8:00:41 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Don't know how this affects people on this board, but I don't plan on driving under any influence, this is why I have a cell phone, call someone to come get me.

You dont get it.

Posted: 7/27/2009 8:05:52 PM EDT

[#40]

Well the 5th clearly has no teeth anymore in these cases. Thank God that drinking is not one of my vices. I think that the 2nd has some teeth and I think I'll clean one of the ARs. Thank God for the NRA and its neverending battle to save the 2nd, so that Americans can have a fighting chance against terrorism (forign or domestic)

I'm going to bed, JBT can KMA.
Good evening

Posted: 7/27/2009 8:08:48 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Laws like this are why cops get shot.

Statements like this is why people get banned.

I disagree. No one is advocating cops should get shot. And it's true: Misuse of a law such as this one would irreparably damage a community's relationship with its police force. I'm pro-law enforcement but I think this law's for the birds.

I would consent to a medical professional drawing blood, but never a cop. They don't get nearly the training they need for police matters. I mean, really. Firearms qualification ONCE a year? How proficient does that make anyone? And they think cops are going to be good at blood draws because they had two days of training? Screw that noise!

Posted: 7/27/2009 8:11:58 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
I know cops are super humans who combine all the best traits of military special forces, attorneys, moral philosophers, and doctors, but let's be on the safe side on this one.

Sigline material.

Boys, it's not that hard to get a warrant. Yes, it's a bit of a PITA, but it's supposed to be to protect the rights of the public.

Before I forget, "implied consent" laws are just stupid. If I, an out of state driver, can transit your boarders without being expressly informed that I have magically waived my rights to be secure in my person and property simply by existing in the space you govern, then I haven't consented to anything.

Posted: 7/27/2009 8:16:35 PM EDT

[#43]

Just wait until a few politicians get caught up in this new process...

Posted: 7/27/2009 8:48:24 PM EDT

[#44]

I absolutely agree that blood draws should only be done by medical personnel (LVN, RN, EMT) and not by cops.

Having said that...the article in the OP was a bunch of "oh da noes!!!" from the defense bar designed to elicit the exact reaction shown in this thread. I cannot think of a time in 25 years of being a LEO when an arrestee was injured in a forced blood draw and the courts in my state have made it very clear how they feel on the issue of limiting the amount of force used to obtain the sample. It has not led to the downfall of our crime lab and we have routinely done splits for defense attorneys when they wanted independent testing.

Posted: 7/27/2009 8:58:41 PM EDT

[#45]

Whole lots of STUPID in this thread............

............. it's GD ...........

carry on.

Posted: 7/27/2009 9:29:10 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Laws like this are why cops get shot.

Statements like this is why people get banned.

I disagree. No one is advocating cops should get shot. And it's true: Misuse of a law such as this one would irreparably damage a community's relationship with its police force. I'm pro-law enforcement but I think this law's for the birds.

I would consent to a medical professional drawing blood, but never a cop. They don't get nearly the training they need for police matters. I mean, really. Firearms qualification ONCE a year? How proficient does that make anyone? And they think cops are going to be good at blood draws because they had two days of training? Screw that noise!

I disagree. Spouting blanket statements about violence towards cops just might get you banned. This is a PRO LE site.

Posted: 7/28/2009 12:09:10 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Police are not drawing blood. They are ordering it to be drawn.

Quoted:

Quoted:
It'll be interesting to see unlicensed phlebotomists in a licensing board's crosshairs.

Indeed. If cops are going to take the blood, I hope they have good malpractiice insurance.

It will be interesting to see how this new SCOTUS ruling that says a defendant has the right to have evidence techs who handled such samples called to testify affects this. If they were already expecting to be swaped, wait until they start spending 5 days in court for every one in the lab.

Who are they "ordering"- the malpractice implications of a health care provider doing a procedure against someones will are also interesting.

A few LEO's on here have stated their departments were training officers to do the draws.

As long as the person doing the blood draw is trained to the standards what does it matter if the person is a cop, a fireman or a contract phlebotomist? I earned my EMT-1A way back in '92 and would have no problem drawing blood samples, my neighbor who is a cop for a different dept - and a former SEAL - would be a poor choice to train for DUI blood draws, he passes out at the sight of needles. The medicial training was the worst part of SEAL training according to him........

Brian

Posted: 7/28/2009 12:23:44 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
i order blood tests all the time. especially where there is p.c. to believe that there are drugs present besides alcohol. Not a big deal here. If they refuse a blood , or breath test, they lose their license to operate in this state. The type of test administered is Officer discretion.

and this is the point, if I dont blow or refuse the tests, ill loose the licence for a year, with no DUI on the record.

Refusal to blow/give blood does not automatically protect you from criminal DUI charges - plenty of folks that refused to provide a BAC sample have been convicted of DUI based on the officers observations of driving, objective symptoms and FST performance.

Brian

Posted: 7/28/2009 12:26:32 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:

How do they get a needle in the vein of someone resisting? And all the people who gave their life for this country and it's come to this.

Strap them down at the hospital. Cops in Texas get a subpoena if there is wreck involved and say your wife was hurt bad in the wreck. Or they get a warrant, i.e. no refusal weekend.

YES, i think thats OK, I also think that were talking about 'giving officers the sole discression'; IE: typical pull over for DUI (.. if im not missing anything. Am I?)

I think you're missing the fact that the suspect has been arrested for suspicion of DUI and the blood draw will be taken in a "medically sound environment" - not the side of the road by Jim Bob the Rookie officer who has been shown how to draw blood 1 time.

We draw blood at the station, at the jail or at the hospital - we have contract phlebotomists on-call 24/7 for all county agencies.

Brian

Posted: 7/28/2009 12:29:50 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
Laws like this are why cops get shot.

Posts like this are why GD has a reputation for being full of ignorant people.

Brian

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Police-ordered DWI blood tests creating a furor (Page 2 of 4)

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