Quoted: Here's one for you:   Quit doing what I call cheap shots, such as running radar at the bottom of a long hill. Everyone knows cars will pick up speed...  give me a break...

Everyone knows cars have brakes.If yours doesn't, maybe it shouldn't be on the road.

Quoted:

Everyone knows cars have brakes.If yours doesn't, maybe it shouldn't be on the road.


schv had asked for opinions and suggestions. could we keep the sarcasism out of this thread?



Roy

bbbbbrrraaaaiiinnnsss!!!....

...errr I mean...... send mooooooorrreeeee poliiiiiiiicccccceeeee........

Quoted: schv had asked for opinions and suggestions. could we keep the sarcasism out of this thread? Roy

My comment was not sarcastic. The comment was in response to a  complaint that officers not ticket at the bottom of a hill. Thats a pretty foolish comment; anyone who can't brake as they go down a hill should not expect a break just because of the hill. As I said, every car has brakes, or should have.

-Community Policing does not have to take place as such a chore or duty. Community Policing should be a philosphy of the police working with the public, a help us help you. Community Policing can be accomplished in the down time of a shift by visiting with different neighborhoods (i.e. people out in lawns) or for the extra busy departments it can be done during break. Try eating at a different restraunt or in a park if you bring your lunch. The people you can connect with on lunch alone may turn out to defend you when have to forcibly restrain a person and it makes the news. Most of all if you are going to try and incorporate this type of philosphy make sure you involve the actual patrol officers and do not dictate it from above. It will not work. The officer is the one that needs to feel comfortable making the partnerships within the community. Remember that solving the issues the department or chief sees as important may not be as important to the local community. I don't know if your academy uses the teachings/ideas of Herman Goldstein but he practically wrote the book (actually did write some) on community policing. The "book" however, just sets framework for the whole idea. A department/officer must tailor it to the community's needs. Look into it. Another teory that seems to work where I am is the broken windows theory. People will help clean up the little things before they get too big.
-Recognize that a Sgt. serves the administration but stands for their crew. Do not take the Sgt. off the raod by giving them projects requiing desk time. That is what the brass is for. The Sgt. needs to see what is going on first hand in order to accuratly and appropriately report to the brass and defend their officers when SHTF.
-If you can't do your job the best all the time (people have weaknesses and make mistakes) at least look good doing it. Have a uniform policy and try to stick to it. Nothing looks worse than a police officer trying to be serious when their uniform is tattered and faded and their boots look like shit. Remember that you only get one first impression and that officer pressence and appearance is a part of the use of force continum. Good looking cops get taken more seriously. Make sure the brass leads by example! This goes for alot of other things too. A chief that is willing to put on the same uniform may seem like they are trying too hard but it does work.
-Never take away discretion unless absolutley neccessary. No one likes a micromanager. There is a chain of command for a reason-trust those below you and try not to let political BS slow things down within the chain.
-Most of all BE OPEN TO CHANGE!!!! Hard for police officers to do but helps so much in the long run.

End of rant unless you want more then email me! Thanks for the opportunity!

Quoted: No reason they can't be friendly chatty Kathys untill they gotta whoop your ass.

Chatty Kathy? I'm not here to be your buddy on a traffic stop. If there is some other contact we might have with each other, I'll be civil...but I once again,  am not there to be your buddy.

I was riding my bicycle down my town's main street around 1AM and two brave young policemen were riding thier bikes pulling up on each side of cars stopped for lights and issuing no seat belt tickets,


That's pretty chickenshit.


Thats not chickenshit by anymeans.  I look at it like this.  At 3:00 am my pager may go off and I'll have to hop in my unit and drive to some accident scene.  When I get there I'll get to look at a body that has been ejected or mangled because they weren't smart enough or "too cool" to place a seatbelt  on.  That is senseless to me.

In terms of traffic enforcement, that is also our biggest complaint.  Everyone wants a traffic officer in their neighborhood but it is awfully hard to do that.  Anyways, I hope this doesn't sound negative.  

By the way, if a LEO does stop you for a valid traffic offense and they are being, as put earlier, "chatty kathy' don't be all pissed off just because you were stopped and acted pissed off, it may be the diffence in:  

"Sir, this is just a warning ticket, slow down a bit."

or

"Sir, your court date is xxx and I need you to sign on this line here."

Quoted: ......or for the extra busy departments it can be done during break. Try eating at a different restaurant or in a park if you bring your lunch. The people you can connect with on lunch alone may turn out to defend you when have to forcibly restrain a person and it makes the news.

Uh, nice in theory..except that when I am on break, I just want to be left alone. I get out of my car because I am in the thing for 8 hours at a time. I go in to sit down to eat because I hate eatting in the car, although I have had to do that numerous times, because usually eatting in the car equates to getting stuff all over the uniform. I sit down, scan the paper while I eat  and shove a burger in my mouth with one ear to the radio, because we don't get a "dinner break"...we grab a bite when there is a lull in the calls.Eat in a restaurant? What the heck is that? We eat in convenience stores  and drive thru's because a regular restaurant takes too long to get your food to you; by the time it gets to you, you're probably already on your way to the next call.

You wanting to stop and talk my ear off most likely means I wont be able to get a meal.Yeah, I'll probably listen to you, but my limited  meal time is NOT the time to build community relations.

Quoted: Ok, I'm tired of reading posts on this board who slam Police for doing there job. We all know there are bad Police Officers out there, just as there are bad doctors, teachers, ministers/clergy etc. Lets go beyond quoting  U.S. Supreme Court rulings, and even the Constitution(Eric the Hun, I'm looking in your direction) and have some constructive ideas about how todays Law Enforcement can deal with todays society. Here is your chance to speak directly with a Police Officer who is asking for your opinions and suggestions. Please try and keep your emotions and past dealings with Law Enforcement from influencing your suggestions.  I fully intend to bring any valid suggestions to the rest of the Law Enforcement Community, via my position as an  instructor at the local Police Academy. As you will see, it is not as easy to be constructive as it is to be destructive. Thanks to those who respond!!!!!

Good luck with this thread. ...

Policing is a difficult job, and if some of the loudest complainers had to do it for a year, they would be quiet.

But my suggestion is something that 90+ % of all police officers know already: The average law abiding citizen is on the same side.

Also, don't participate in silliness like CAGE.

Quoted: Quoted: ......or for the extra busy departments it can be done during break. Try eating at a different restaurant or in a park if you bring your lunch. The people you can connect with on lunch alone may turn out to defend you when have to forcibly restrain a person and it makes the news. Uh, nice in theory..except that when I am on break, I just want to be left alone. I get out of my car because I am in the thing for 8 hours at a time. I go in to sit down to eat because I hate eatting in the car, although I have had to do that numerous times, because usually eatting in the car equates to getting stuff all over the uniform. I sit down, scan the paper while I eat  and shove a burger in my mouth with one ear to the radio, because we don't get a "dinner break"...we grab a bite when there is a lull in the calls.Eat in a restaurant? What the heck is that? We eat in convenience stores  and drive thru's because a regular restaurant takes too long to get your food to you; by the time it gets to you, you're probably already on your way to the next call. You wanting to stop and talk my ear off most likely means I wont be able to get a meal.Yeah, I'll probably listen to you, but my limited  meal time is NOT the time to build community relations.

I completely understand what you are saying and I never intended my comments to apply to everyone. It was but only one suggestion. As far as eating restraunts. The local PD here has lunches as a priority 3 call on a 1-6 scale. Anything below 3 or sometimes at 3 will have to wait until lunch is over. I am not a fan of this because I think it is counterproductive to community policing but they think it is just fine...

Quoted: Quoted: Here's a suggestion: When they tell you to confiscate the guns, DON'T. For your piece of mind, ALL OFFICERS in my deparment, and all that I have spoke with EVER, have ALL said they would NEVER confiscate firarms from law abiding citizens. By law abiding citizen they mean non-felon/drug dealer etc., not someone who has violated an ill passed law banning private ownership of firearms. Rest assured 99% of all street-level police think like you and the rest of the folks on this board!!!

 Doing something about the 1% would go along way.

Quoted: Quoted: No reason they can't be friendly chatty Kathys untill they gotta whoop your ass. Chatty Kathy? I'm not here to be your buddy on a traffic stop. If there is some other contact we might have with each other, I'll be civil...but I once again,  am not there to be your buddy.

  Thats the attitude to have!!  Keep up with the us against them.

There was a study,  years ago now,  about just what sort of personality officers that get attacked the most on duty have.  In quite a few case histories they interviewed the officer's murderer.

It's the "Chatty Kathy" types.  If I remember correctly,  almost three times as likely to get hurt or killed.   I've also seen that borne out over the years.  

No thanks.  I'm not your buddy.

BTW:  I'm waiting to see the " Arfcom Anti-authority cop basher" suggestion thread.

tcsd1236 - It should be expected that the "public" will vent their frustrations, voice their opinions and offer suggestions to someone willing to listen. You on the other hand do nothing but lash out in defense of your SOP. You are obviously a newbie or wrapped too tight for the job you have, for you have missed the entire reason for this thread. A cop was asking for opinions and suggestions with the obvious intent on making a difference, and I respect this. You on the other hand have failed to grasp it.

Quoted: tcsd1236 - It should be expected that the "public" will vent their frustrations, voice their opinions and offer suggestions to someone willing to listen. You on the other hand do nothing but lash out in defense of your SOP.   You are obviously a newbie or wrapped too tight for the job you have, for you have missed the entire reason for this thread. A cop was asking for opinions and suggestions with the obvious intent on making a difference, and I respect this. You on the other hand have failed to grasp it.

Thank you, Well said.


Roy

Quoted: My idea is nothing new.  It's called "Get the cops out the cruiser and make them walk a beat".  Especially in large cities, the cops seem to only be around when bad things happen, and get associated with such.  They are seen as an invading force. In the days of the walking beat cop, they got to know the people, the people got to know them, and they were better able to keep an eye on the neighborhood.  The drug dealers certainly won't be hanging out on the corner if they knew Officer John Doe was going to be around every 20 minutes.

My nephew is a Sheriff in LA County (as is his wife).  They practice community policing and sometimes solve problems as simple as getting a vacant lot cleaned up.  It all helps and lets the community see them as a partner.  In reality this is the old MBWA (management by walking around) that any good business uses.

Here's my last encounter with an officer.  Two of them are writing a ticket across the street.  Right next to them is a truck that's been parked in the same place for a month or so.  I go over and mention it and they say they'll call traffic and get it ticketed and eventually removed.  They don't, so a week later I call and get things in motion.  Question, ...why let me think they will handle it when their real attitude would seem to be "it's not my job", "call traffic".  I could have handled that but the idea that they have such separate responsibilities does not make a lot of sense.

Quoted: Quoted: schv had asked for opinions and suggestions. could we keep the sarcasism out of this thread? Roy My comment was not sarcastic. The comment was in response to a  complaint that officers not ticket at the bottom of a hill. Thats a pretty foolish comment; anyone who can't brake as they go down a hill should not expect a break just because of the hill. As I said, every car has brakes, or should have.

Oh come on... it's a matter of wear and tear.  I frequent some hills where you would have to apply the brakes 100% of the time for almost a mile to stay at the speed limit.  Or, you could drop the duty cycle down to say 25% or less and hover about 5-10mph over.

Thats the attitude to have!! Keep up with the us against them

- Funny how the "Us vs Them" line is always thrown around by the non-LEO side.

Quoted: I go over and mention it and they say they'll call traffic and get it ticketed and eventually removed.  They don't, so a week later I call and get things in motion.  Question, ...why let me think they will handle it when their real attitude would seem to be "it's not my job", "call traffic".  I could have handled that but the idea that they have such separate responsibilities does not make a lot of sense.

- Do you know if they called?  Perhaps they did call and the other unit didn't pick up the ball like they were supposed to. There have been countless times when I've passed info on to community coordinators about an issue a resident brought up and they failed to act on it.  I can only do so much....after all; very few agencies are open at 3AM.

Quoted: Oh come on... it's a matter of wear and tear.  I frequent some hills where you would have to apply the brakes 100% of the time for almost a mile to stay at the speed limit.  Or, you could drop the duty cycle down to say 25% or less and hover about 5-10mph over.

Cars have gears as well as brakes.

Quoted:   Thats the attitude to have!!  Keep up with the us against them.

And exactly HOW is that us against them, except in YOUR mind?

Whoah - looks like I hit a nerve....

Quoted: Quoted: If cops would spend less time going after traffic violations, spent more time cruising neighborhoods and stopping to chat with folks.... just to build rapport... And PDs spent more time indoctrinating a spirit of "most citizens are decent, and can help you".... It might just shine a spotlight on the "John Wayne's" to change their attitude or find another career... I'll answer this one. Traffic enforcement is our number one citizen complaint; people WANT us out there enforcing the traffic laws in their areas. We do not have enough officers to sit in all of the areas that want an officer to sit there.

Well, I can buy that... I've complained several times about people in my 'hood who seem incapable of turning into the nearest lane, or other dumbshit "I'm too lazy to drive properly" moves.  But those cases could be addressed with more visibility in residential areas.  What I was talking about is spending less time watching the radar display on the interstate.

and PDs let go those who abuse their authority rather than constantly "closing ranks".... the overall integrity of cops as percieved by the citizenry would improve. And you don't think that in most cases the officers aren't being thrown to the wolves? There are reasons why we close ranks; the majority of officers are good officers, even in cases where its politically correct and politically expedient to throw an officer to the wolves to placate an ignorant public on the warpath after a politicallys ensitive incident.

Dude... cops are OFTEN thrown to the wolves as you say... but to carry your analogy further, and to better illustrate my original point:  If you would build a rapport with the wolves instead of having most of your contact with them consist of confrontation, those wolves might just turn into fine hunting partners!  As I said originally, you as cops, are in the high-ground and command authority.  If you use it benevolently, you alone can change the citizen/LE relationship.  Sadly, citizens alone are unable to improved that relationship... all they can do is "act like wolves" in response to negative things.

Quoted: I was riding my bicycle down my town's main street around 1AM and two brave young policemen were riding thier bikes pulling up on each side of cars stopped for lights and issuing no seat belt tickets,

Mmmhmmm.... and now each person who got a ticket has another reason to dislike cops....  Perhaps if the officers had chatted them up for a minute or two and respectfully suggested they follow the seatbelt laws (and not by acting like their dad or <gasp> big brother) they would have gotten equal compliance and not created an enemy... in fact may have created a friend or partner.

Quoted: Quoted: No reason they can't be friendly chatty Kathys untill they gotta whoop your ass. Chatty Kathy? I'm not here to be your buddy on a traffic stop. If there is some other contact we might have with each other, I'll be civil...but I once again,  am not there to be your buddy.

Well tcsd1236, I guess you wont be able to count on David (or me since you posted this in a public forum and I'm a part of your audience) to help you out if you ever need it.  I really do not mean to speak for David, but you understand my point.

Quoted: Quoted: I was riding my bicycle down my town's main street around 1AM and two brave young policemen were riding thier bikes pulling up on each side of cars stopped for lights and issuing no seat belt tickets, Mmmhmmm.... and now each person who got a ticket has another reason to dislike cops....  Perhaps if the officers had chatted them up for a minute or two and respectfully suggested they follow the seatbelt laws (and not by acting like their dad or <gasp> big brother) they would have gotten equal compliance and not created an enemy... in fact may have created a friend or partner.

But they're doing it for the children.  Not to generate revenue.  Remember that.  This is why their will always be the us vs. them mentality, because police departments generate money for the state and themselves in the false name of safety.

Thanks very much to all who have responded!!! I was very impressed that we were able to keep this civil with as many people who have posted.

I agree with those who have complained about officers who "brow beat" or lecture them on traffic stops. As a matter of fact, my partner is bad about doing just that. He is 5'4" and has "little man syndrome". He wants to "teach 'em a lesson", the problem is, he is not the teacher!!

The problem with our job is, it is very hard to be on good terms with someone who you just issued an exspensive citation to. People don't understand that if we don't issue citations, then eventually peoples driving would get so out of hand, that it would be completely unsafe to even leave your driveway. Citations were not intended to be a money making affair, however, it has become just that for some agencies. Citations are meant to "correct" a persons actions, they are a "reminder" that we all must play by the rules. How else can we enforce traffic laws? Loss of money, loss of freedom, or physical pain, are the most effective ways to deal with disobediance, and we can't hardly "spank" a 40 year old man for driving drunk!!!

I think that the news media has contributed a lot to the publics perception of Law Enforcement. Constantly running stories of suspected police wrongdoing, police chases that end in a innocent person getting hurt, etc. Not to say that  those things should not be covered, but balance it out with a little positive portrayal of Law Enforcement. But positive Law Enforcement doesn't sell, can you imagine the look on a studio executive's face if he was pitched a modern "Andy Griffith Show" sitcom?!!! Would never happen in this day and age, but shows like "The Shield" thrive.

And we deserve our fair share of the blame, we do have a lot of officers who have become policemen because they were picked on in school, and they have a score to settle. We have officers that are badge heavy, on a power trip, or are eliteist who propagate the us vs. them mentality.

We need very seriously more qualified applicants, we can only pick from those who are willing to join!!! And if those willing, are only willing because of their own personal agenda, then we have little hope. I encourage those of you who may not be happy with your current career, to seriously look into law enforcement. We can only change the publics perception of law enforcemet from the inside. Sure the pay is low, risks are high, but you would be a true patriot, someone who fights for this countries way of life at the most important level.........the street!!

And for those who may be to old, or physically unable to participate in law enforcement........look into your local goverment. Become a coucilmember, run for mayor, do something to get involved and make your voice heard, you are preaching to the choir here............spread the word, make a difference. If our founding fathers would have done what you are doing, (the 1770's equivalent of sitting at the local pub bitching,) then we would still be flying the "Union Jack", and kneeling to the King/Queen!!!!!!

Buying an AR and hiding in the woods, is not being a true patriot!!

Quoted: I agree with those who have complained about officers who "brow beat" or lecture them on traffic stops. As a matter of fact, my partner is bad about doing just that. He is 5'4" and has "little man syndrome". He wants to "teach 'em a lesson", the problem is, he is not the teacher!!

I hope that you are not talking about verbal warnings. We have two options: a written ticket or a warning. Some places have written warnings, but we don't. If someone is going to get a warning, they are going to hear WHY we are in that area. I do almost no moving RADAR; we get so many VTL complaints that we spend a lot of time in specific areas trying to resolve the issues that residents are complaining about. If someone is going to get a warning from me, they are going to drive away knowing EXACTLY why I was in that area and what behavior they did that caused them to get stopped and why thats not an isolated issue but a larger one that their behavior is contributing to.

, and we can't hardly "spank" a 40 year old man for driving drunk!!!

There are those here who want officers to just ignore DWIs. They would probably disagree with ya.

And we deserve our fair share of the blame, we do have a lot of officers who have become policemen because they were picked on in school, and they have a score to settle. We have officers that are badge heavy, on a power trip, or are eliteist who propagate the us vs. them mentality.

You know, unless your agency make-up is radically different than any of the ones in my area, I cannot believe you say that. I hear it enough from the whackjobs on this board. I don't know ANY officers who suffer from that sort of insecurity; the officers I know were military vets, jocks, normal people. In their off time they play ball,hunt, run around on their ATVs, boats, golf...they have families, they have lives. As kids, the ones I knew from back then were your normal average kids growing up.They are exceedingly Middle America as anyone here might envision is. They are not the Walter Mitty type you want to cast them as.

We need very seriously more qualified applicants, we can only pick from those who are willing to join!!! And if those willing, are only willing because of their own personal agenda, then we have little hope. I encourage those of you who may not be happy with your current career, to seriously look into law enforcement. We can only change the publics perception of law enforcemet from the inside. Sure the pay is low, risks are high, but you would be a true patriot, someone who fights for this countries way of life at the most important level.........the street!!

Willing to join? I don't see a draft forcing any officer to join. Every officer out there wanted to be one, went through an academy, survived their FTO phase and has gone on to a career.

Buying an AR and hiding in the woods, is not being a true patriot!!

I can agree with you there.

Quoted: Well tcsd1236, I guess you wont be able to count on David (or me since you posted this in a public forum and I'm a part of your audience) to help you out if you ever need it.  I really do not mean to speak for David, but you understand my point.

I don't expect to be doing many traffic stops in TX, either.

Police suggestion box

For the new guys --
Your not military -- commando's -- seals , SF of any kind. Your a Law Enforcement Officer.


Your not snipers -- your police marksman.

Combat boots, white wall hair cuts, sure some prefer them -- others wear them to look GI.
You want to be a GI grow some balls and enlist

You deal with  the public-- people -- sometimes at their worse, give them some  understanding, lose that arrogant I am here, large and in charge attitude.


Sure cops are killed -- but in truth not that many and not that often -- if your so scared that everything you do is handled "FELONY STYLE" get a different job


Laws are to be enforced -- with common sense, use some, if you have none -- do everyone a favor and get a different job


I could go on for quite awhile ................. but won't.