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Link Posted: 4/27/2011 11:44:55 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
The call to police said there might be a burglar inside 235 Southwest 4th Street. But there is no 235. Only 236 and 230.

Arriving police outside spotted someone inside 230 – Neville Scarlett was in the kitchen cleaning up the Easter dinner plates - and thought he might be the burglar.
He was not.

Moments earlier, the same person who called police also called the Scarlett’s to warn them about a possible burglar outside. Fearful, Carmita lowered the kitchen window shade. That’s when she heard someone hit the window with something metallic. She says she saw a gun pointed directly at her.




Sounds relatively reasonable to me.  I am by no means a cop defender or a holster sniffer, but this one doesn't sound all that bad.


Exactly where in there was there any reason for the officer to draw a gun? Or do anything but knock on the door and politely ask the residents if they've seen anything suspicious?


I addressed this in an earlier post.  Where I said this-

ETA: "So what did you see upon arriving at the residence in question Officer Smith." "Well, as I entered the yard, and approached the window over the kitchen sink, I saw the suspect make a furtive movement with a bottle of dawn, a plate, and a dish scrubber. At that point I determined that the suspect was an immediate threat, so I drew down, and bladed at 45 degrees to deal with the situation sir. Can I has heroic award now please?"
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 11:46:00 AM EDT



Quoted:



Quoted:

How much longer until a SWAT team no knocks a State Senator's house or Federal judge's home, that would be awesome and epic. Probably the beginning of the end for the no knock warrants.




I can only hope


No knock warrants are overused, but there are legitimate cases for them.



 
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 11:48:58 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
What happens when they bust into the wrong home and a law abiding citizen mows them down with an AK because he didn't know if they were thugs or cops?  

They kill the law abiding citizen and then we read news articles about how the family members "never thought he would do something like that" and how he must have went crazy.
 


Not always...


Or in Omaha, they look under your sink and say, "possessed chemicals to manufacture meth".  Then they reach your garage, and say, "possessed materials to make explosive devices.".  It takes over the headlines, cops that shot other cops, and a police dog that attacked cops, and oh the guy with a flashlight that got shot to fuck are at the bottom of the article.  But, what sticks out in most readers minds, and what do they remember?

PROBATION VIOLATION, METH, BOMBS.

Link Posted: 4/27/2011 11:49:24 AM EDT
Quoted:
I am interested in the impact this will have on the Judge's rulings


Liberal = a conservative who has been arrested.
Conservative = a liberal who has been mugged.
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 11:50:02 AM EDT
Officer:  Unit 1 to dispatch.
Dispatch :  Unit 1
Officer: Dispatch, can you verify that address?
Dispatch: Unit 1, the address is 1998 Meadow Terrace
Officer:  Thank you dispatch

Officer "Hey, numbnuts, the address is 1998 Meadow Terrace, NOT 1998 Meadow Lane."


How hard is this, in the modern world of radio and cell phone comms?
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 11:52:28 AM EDT
Hello 911?

There's a maniac loose at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

He destroyed everything.

Lives are in danger.
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 11:53:11 AM EDT
Burglary call, cop sees black man inside a nice house in a good neighborhood, cop kicks the door in then sees a black woman with a pistol.  Yeap, that has be the bad guys.
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 11:54:46 AM EDT
Quoted:
Police Confront Broward Judge

By Jeff Burnside
advertisement



Broward Circuit Court Judge Ilona Holmes, her sister and her sister’s family says they were ordered at gun point by several Broward Sheriffs Deputies on Easter Sunday to come out of her sister’s home with their hands up.

It was no evening of peace for the Deerfield Beach family, who’d just finished dinner with friends and family, and sent extra Easter dinner to a needy family connected with their church. Then, at 8:20 p.m., police got a call about a possible burglary next door. But a bad address caused police to go to the wrong home.

___________________________

How much of a mark will that leave in teh officers evals?


Their concern should be their credibility when they testify before him defending one of their arrests.
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 11:55:03 AM EDT
Quoted:
Officer:  Unit 1 to dispatch.
Dispatch :  Unit 1
Officer: Dispatch, can you verify that address?
Dispatch: Unit 1, the address is 1998 Meadow Terrace
Officer:  Thank you dispatch

Officer "Hey, numbnuts, the address is 1998 Meadow Terrace, NOT 1998 Meadow Lane."


How hard is this, in the modern world of radio and cell phone comms?


LOL. Not hard at all. But apparently the SOP there is as follows:

Officer 1: Dispatch said the address was 205, but there isn't a 205. Should we ask them to verify?
Officer 2: Hell no. Let's just go around the neighborhood peaking in windows and pointing guns at people instead. When we find someone that runs, that'll be the BG.
Officer 1: That sounds swell.


Link Posted: 4/27/2011 12:03:08 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
I am interested in the impact this will have on the Judge's rulings


Liberal = a conservative who has been arrested.
Conservative = a liberal who has been mugged.


I'm a conservative that has been arrested twice.  Once justifiably, 11 years ago.

Then once 4 years ago which was some major bullshit I got out of but cost me a fuck ton of money.

Still a conservative.
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 12:09:26 PM EDT
Quoted:
Isolated incident.    





I'm glad to hear about incidents like these where overly aggressive LE step on their own dicks in a major way and make another enemy among the ranks of judges and politicians.

Link Posted: 4/27/2011 12:14:13 PM EDT
I sure wonder what the consequences will be for this screw up

good thing nobody good killed and the dog was sleeping

Link Posted: 4/27/2011 12:19:06 PM EDT
I guess some lazy judge didn't have a claymore on her kitchen window sill
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 12:21:05 PM EDT
Quoted:
This seems to be one of the growing problems with LE today, looks like too much fucking guessing and very little verifying on the part of the LE followed by a lot of fucking attitude from them when they fuck up.  


Everyone makes mistakes, the way they handle can be the issue.
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 12:24:14 PM EDT
And of course, the usual from the cops:

She said other officers explained to her that they have families, too, and they want to make it home alive each night. But she says they did so in a condescending way, lecturing her as if she’d done something wrong.

“I know no one apologized, OK? And, to me, if you want to make amends for something, you want to make peace, you apologize, you shake, you leave, you say ‘I'm sorry,’" she said. "And, you know, the cop that had his gun on me, he said ‘well, I was fearing for my life.’ I said ‘really! You were fearing for your life? Really?’ He said ‘forget it - I'm out of here.'"

Carmita says she just wanted someone that night to apologize.


I've said this in other threads, and nobody behind the blue wall ever listens. There are all sorts of studies, both mathematical and subjective ones, all of which say that doctors and lawyers who immediately acknowledge, explain, and try to fix a mistake they've made get sued and disciplined by licensing authorities FAR less often than the ones who shut up, walk away, and pretend like they did nothing wrong.

These cops are now FUCKED for life any time they are before that judge, and all they had to do was apologize, explain the situation, and let the people there know what happened.
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 12:27:35 PM EDT



Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:



What happens when they bust into the wrong home and a law abiding citizen mows them down with an AK because he didn't know if they were thugs or cops?  


They kill the law abiding citizen and then we read news articles about how the family members "never thought he would do something like that" and how he must have went crazy.

 


Not always...


The cops got medals for that one.



 
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 12:29:20 PM EDT
Where's Obama? Why isn't he on the news talking about "police acting stupidly"?
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 12:29:24 PM EDT


Those LEO's will definately need their Union on this one...





Link Posted: 4/27/2011 12:32:48 PM EDT
Quoted:
This seems to be one of the growing problems with LE today, looks like too much fucking guessing and very little verifying on the part of the LE followed by a lot of fucking attitude from them when they fuck up.  


yeah it has nothing to do with joe citizen calling the cops on his cell phone and giving bad info.
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 12:35:34 PM EDT
Quoted:
Did I get this right???

The cop said he felt threatened by a woman washing dishes in her pajamas!

Time for that cop to find a new job that involves a mop and bucket of soapy water.


wtf over?
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 12:36:33 PM EDT
Yeah... Someone/some people are getting some red "x's" in their file
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 12:37:18 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
This seems to be one of the growing problems with LE today, looks like too much fucking guessing and very little verifying on the part of the LE followed by a lot of fucking attitude from them when they fuck up.  


yeah it has nothing to do with joe citizen calling the cops on his cell phone and giving bad info.


OK...

So YOU go out on this call.
YOU are told the address is 205 fuckme street.
YOU see that there's no such thing as 205 fuckme street. Only 201 fuckme or 210 fuckme.

Do YOU:

A) Ask dispatch for confirmation, and/or to follow up w/ the complaintant.
B) Just start peaking in windows.

Link Posted: 4/27/2011 12:38:12 PM EDT



Quoted:


And of course, the usual from the cops:




She said other officers explained to her that they have families, too, and they want to make it home alive each night. But she says they did so in a condescending way, lecturing her as if she’d done something wrong.



"I know no one apologized, OK? And, to me, if you want to make amends for something, you want to make peace, you apologize, you shake, you leave, you say ‘I'm sorry,’" she said. "And, you know, the cop that had his gun on me, he said ‘well, I was fearing for my life.’ I said ‘really! You were fearing for your life? Really?’ He said ‘forget it - I'm out of here.'"



Carmita says she just wanted someone that night to apologize.




I've said this in other threads, and nobody behind the blue wall ever listens. There are all sorts of studies, both mathematical and subjective ones, all of which say that doctors and lawyers who immediately acknowledge, explain, and try to fix a mistake they've made get sued and disciplined by licensing authorities FAR less often than the ones who shut up, walk away, and pretend like they did nothing wrong.



These cops are now FUCKED for life any time they are before that judge, and all they had to do was apologize, explain the situation, and let the people there know what happened.




you're forgetting police are forced into their jobs, where they work and what they do. they have no say in this and shouldn't be held accountable.



 
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 12:39:51 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
This seems to be one of the growing problems with LE today, looks like too much fucking guessing and very little verifying on the part of the LE followed by a lot of fucking attitude from them when they fuck up.  


yeah it has nothing to do with joe citizen calling the cops on his cell phone and giving bad info.


It has more to do with the PD's lack of professional responsibility. If you believe everything that the person on the phone tells you, you need to hang up the guns.
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 12:43:33 PM EDT
How is his dog?

Link Posted: 4/27/2011 12:52:44 PM EDT
Quoted:
This seems to be one of the growing problems with LE today, looks like too much fucking guessing and very little verifying on the part of the LE followed by a lot of fucking attitude
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 3:18:49 AM EDT
Just saw this, this morning.



Wow.




Link Posted: 4/28/2011 3:55:31 AM EDT




Quoted:



Quoted:

This seems to be one of the growing problems with LE today, looks like too much fucking guessing and very little verifying on the part of the LE followed by a lot of fucking attitude


Caused by little to no personal accountability from initial caller through the entire chain to the unapologetic pricks who threw attitude at the folks they terrorized after the "Little oops" was confirmed. Just taxpayer paid awards on the very odd occasion that it is not swept under the rug. The fact this was a judge makes it newsworthy and gives it some legs, hopefully long ones..  Otherwise, move along citizen. No big awards for this one, at least, since nobody was plugged by the heros.  

Link Posted: 4/28/2011 4:01:11 AM EDT
Quoted:
The dispatcher could have made the error on the address.


More likely the original caller. Happens all the time. People don't give you an exact or a correct address, usually because they just don't know, and then you have to sort it out when you get on scene.

A dispatcher level mistake is when they don't ask questions about the correct address and just take the info off their screen, and then you get on scene to find that the number called from  is now tied to an address across the county and the phone company hasn't updated their records.

Quoted:
Perhaps I am ignorant and naive, but I don't see why every single no knock raid isn't staked out by officers on the scene to make damn sure they've got the right address.

Don't trust what your dispatcher tells you or what you see on some piece of paper.  Don't make a move until you've confirmed with your own eyes that what you're doing is right.

If this means staking out a location for hours to see if Johnny Crackhead goes into or out of the house then so be it.


Did you even read the thread? This isn't about a no knock warrant

Quoted:
It has more to do with the PD's lack of professional responsibility. If you believe everything that the person on the phone tells you, you need to hang up the guns.


You can't ignore what info was relayed over the phone either.

If the LEOs had casually walked up to the door the way some here are saying it should have been done and the judge was inside bound and gagged and someone got hurt because the LEOs didn't go in guns drawn, folks here would be second guessing THAT response.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 4:19:54 AM EDT
I wonder if that judge will ever rule in the favor of law enforcement or the government again.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 4:22:48 AM EDT



Quoted:


The call to police said there might be a burglar inside 235 Southwest 4th Street. But there is no 235. Only 236 and 230.



Arriving police outside spotted someone inside 230 – Neville Scarlett was in the kitchen cleaning up the Easter dinner plates - and thought he might be the burglar.

He was not.



Moments earlier, the same person who called police also called the Scarlett’s to warn them about a possible burglar outside. Fearful, Carmita lowered the kitchen window shade. That’s when she heard someone hit the window with something metallic. She says she saw a gun pointed directly at her.
Sounds relatively reasonable to me.  I am by no means a cop defender or a holster sniffer, but this one doesn't sound all that bad.


I know when I B&E I always do the dishes!



 
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 4:25:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 4:32:36 AM EDT
Maybe a few questions could have been asked? Sounds like a drug dealer figured out how to keep police chasing their tails while they do business.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 4:45:57 AM EDT
Quoted:
That is not going to buff out.


Nope HA HA
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 2:03:03 PM EDT
Quoted:

Quoted:
It has more to do with the PD's lack of professional responsibility. If you believe everything that the person on the phone tells you, you need to hang up the guns.


You can't ignore what info was relayed over the phone either.

If the LEOs had casually walked up to the door the way some here are saying it should have been done and the judge was inside bound and gagged and someone got hurt because the LEOs didn't go in guns drawn, folks here would be second guessing THAT response.

I agree. Since we have two extreme options (break and rake v. officer friendly) what about something more in the middle?
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 2:04:33 PM EDT



Quoted:


Seems like these events are posted on a weekly basis. How much more frequently must they actually occur?


Hush!



If you have nothing to hide you shouldn't be worrying about it!



 
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 2:05:04 PM EDT





Quoted:



Seems like these events are posted on a weekly basis. How much more frequently must they actually occur?



Team One, go to wrong house, execute raid!





Team Two, find a dog on a chain you could easily walk around, kill it!





Team Three, harass open-carrying citizen!





Team Four, log on to ARFcom, make excuses!









 
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 2:06:33 PM EDT
Quoted:

Quoted:
Seems like these events are posted on a weekly basis. How much more frequently must they actually occur?

Team One, go to wrong house, execute raid!

Team Two, find a dog on a chain you could easily walk around, kill it!

Team Three, harass open-carrying citizen!

Team Four, log on to ARFcom, make excuses!
 


Link Posted: 4/28/2011 2:10:55 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
It has more to do with the PD's lack of professional responsibility. If you believe everything that the person on the phone tells you, you need to hang up the guns.


You can't ignore what info was relayed over the phone either.

If the LEOs had casually walked up to the door the way some here are saying it should have been done and the judge was inside bound and gagged and someone got hurt because the LEOs didn't go in guns drawn, folks here would be second guessing THAT response.

I agree. Since we have two extreme options (break and rake v. officer friendly) what about something more in the middle?


Whats your definition of more in the middle?
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 2:44:27 PM EDT
Quoted:
This seems to be one of the growing problems with LE today, looks like too much fucking guessing and very little verifying on the part of the LE followed by a lot of fucking attitude from them when they fuck up.  


Bingo!

If police were humble and genuinely apologetic when they F up, I think the public would be more forgiving. Doctors are learning this lesson the hard way.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 2:48:25 PM EDT
Quoted:
That is not going to buff out.



That's a given.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 2:53:57 PM EDT
Quoted:
This seems to be one of the growing problems with LE today, looks like too much fucking guessing and very little verifying on the part of the LE followed by a lot of fucking attitude from them when they fuck up.  


Right there you have it folks. More truth in that one statement than has ever been posted in any "wrong home raided" thread on Arfcom.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 2:56:43 PM EDT




Quoted:

Officer: Unit 1 to dispatch.

Dispatch : Unit 1

Officer: Dispatch, can you verify that address?

Dispatch: Unit 1, the address is 1998 Meadow Terrace

Officer: Thank you dispatch



Officer "Hey, numbnuts, the address is 1998 Meadow Terrace, NOT 1998 Meadow Lane."





How hard is this, in the modern world of radio and cell phone comms?




What happens when distpatch confirms the address is 1998 Meadow Lane, and its still wrong?
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 3:03:01 PM EDT
He's a judge and will likely get some justice. The rest of us poor peons, well...
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 3:04:55 PM EDT
Quoted:

Quoted:
Officer: Unit 1 to dispatch.
Dispatch : Unit 1
Officer: Dispatch, can you verify that address?
Dispatch: Unit 1, the address is 1998 Meadow Terrace
Officer: Thank you dispatch

Officer "Hey, numbnuts, the address is 1998 Meadow Terrace, NOT 1998 Meadow Lane."


How hard is this, in the modern world of radio and cell phone comms?


What happens when distpatch confirms the address is 1998 Meadow Lane, and its still wrong?


If they confirm an address different than what the reporting party advised you nail the dispatcher (or call taker whoever sent the troops after the wrong address) to a cross.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 3:11:48 PM EDT
Speaking of no-knock raids gone majorly wrong:

Police raid Md. mayor's home, kill his dogs


Mayor Cheye Calvo and wife, Trinity Tomsic, at their house in Berwyn Heights on Thursday. Calvo is asking for the U.S. Justice Department to investigate a county police raid on his home during which his dogs were killed.

I think the po-po got medals for that one, too....

Link Posted: 4/28/2011 3:14:08 PM EDT



Quoted:


He's a judge and will likely get some justice. The rest of us poor peons, well...


SHE's not what you might be expecting...







 
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 3:17:00 PM EDT
Quoted:
If they confirm an address different than what the reporting party advised you nail the dispatcher (or call taker whoever sent the troops after the wrong address) to a cross.


The dispatcher can only go off the info on their screens and what a caller has told them. The dispatcher doesn't have ESP to know what the true address is.
I've already talked about being sent on 911 calls where the phone was switched to a house across the county from the address listed and the phone records weren't updated.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 3:29:31 PM EDT



Quoted:



Quoted:

The dispatcher could have made the error on the address.




More likely the original caller. Happens all the time. People don't give you an exact or a correct address, usually because they just don't know, and then you have to sort it out when you get on scene.



A dispatcher level mistake is when they don't ask questions about the correct address and just take the info off their screen, and then you get on scene to find that the number called from  is now tied to an address across the county and the phone company hasn't updated their records.




Quoted:

Perhaps I am ignorant and naive, but I don't see why every single no knock raid isn't staked out by officers on the scene to make damn sure they've got the right address.



Don't trust what your dispatcher tells you or what you see on some piece of paper.  Don't make a move until you've confirmed with your own eyes that what you're doing is right.



If this means staking out a location for hours to see if Johnny Crackhead goes into or out of the house then so be it.




Did you even read the thread? This isn't about a no knock warrant




Quoted:

It has more to do with the PD's lack of professional responsibility. If you believe everything that the person on the phone tells you, you need to hang up the guns.




You can't ignore what info was relayed over the phone either.



If the LEOs had casually walked up to the door the way some here are saying it should have been done and the judge was inside bound and gagged and someone got hurt because the LEOs didn't go in guns drawn, folks here would be second guessing THAT response.

Police have no duty to protect you, they do have a duty to not run into your house and shoot you in a seemingly random manner.





 
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 3:42:58 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
It has more to do with the PD's lack of professional responsibility. If you believe everything that the person on the phone tells you, you need to hang up the guns.


You can't ignore what info was relayed over the phone either.

If the LEOs had casually walked up to the door the way some here are saying it should have been done and the judge was inside bound and gagged and someone got hurt because the LEOs didn't go in guns drawn, folks here would be second guessing THAT response.

I agree. Since we have two extreme options (break and rake v. officer friendly) what about something more in the middle?


Whats your definition of more in the middle?


Realizing that you don't have a proper address, you don't draw down on the first occupied home you come across. That doesn't mean that you have to be careless, but you don't get to act like DEVGRU.


They didn't know where they had to be, so they guessed. (Nothing is wrong with guessing/assuming. Otherwise, they might as well just sit at the station)

It's Easter so: lots of people are at home, and with families. This is not a situation where a person is wandering around a store or factory at 3am. The homeowners were where they had a legal right to be doing what they had a legal right to do.

They thought she was a burglar because why? Is it typical to dress in pajamas and lounge around the home prior to burgaling?

Saying "sorry" goes a long way as well.

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