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Posted: 9/18/2011 4:30:55 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Oxford scholar are you?

Mock me if you wish, but you know it is true. My first pharmacology class was taught by a Pharm PhD who lost his daughter to prescription abuse and he did not recognize what was happening at the time till it was too late.

A little refresher course for you:

Oxycodone metabolites are opioid receptor agonists. Oxymorphone is formed from 3-Odemethylation of oxycodone. Oxymorphone is 2 to 5 times higher in opioid receptor affinity and in analgesic potency than morphine.

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:35:31 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Percocet is a combination of oxycodone hydrochloride and acetaminophen.

Oxycodone is an extremely addictive opioid. It converts in the body to morphone which is chemically similar to morphine.

Most young heroin users in the USA got their start by abusing Oxycodone class drugs.

It is cheaper and easier to get heroin then prescription drugs.

Taking these types of prescription drugs are habit forming and many of today's physicians are nothing more than glorified drug dealers.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ciwPussJ6HA/Tk_iZ0yDluI/AAAAAAAAAcc/H0BLngGx1lE/s1600/poison.jpg

Please enlighten us, newbie.

Shut up you glorified drug dealer!

Notice how no one suggests seeing the surgeon, just throwing more pain meds at the problem. Now that may be the solution but you need to make sure nothing else is going on first.

See the Doctor.

As mentioned above....there could be an infection. There could be a reaction to the hardware. There could be a failure of the fixation. You could be doing too much on it. Better to get it checked out.

AFARR

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:37:49 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:

morphine tabs work ok.

According to the Guinness Book of World Records, the Best Pain reliever was morphine.

I just had a shit load of morphine pumped into me at the ER on friday. I just woke up about noon today.

Btw, what does "he got 20 of morphine" mean (Is that CC's?)? Because that is what the nure told the ER doc.

Milligrams (mg). That's a good dose especially if you're a morphine virgin.

I've had it before, but it has been a while. For this trip I did something to my back. Couldn't rotate my pelvis, or move my legs in the slightest, without a lightning bolt shooting up my spine. Was actually pretty scary. And all that morphine totally blasted me me, but I still felt about 50% of that nerve shooting.

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:41:03 PM EDT

[#4]

I've been using them for years. Not exactly addicted but sometimes Need them for back episodes. You have to watch certain doctors because they'll turn you into a junkie if you let them.

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:41:46 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Oxford scholar are you?

Mock me if you wish, but you know it is true. My first pharmacology class was taught by a Pharm PhD who lost his daughter to prescription abuse and he did not recognize what was happening at the time till it was too late.

A little refresher course for you:

Oxycodone metabolites are opioid receptor agonists. Oxymorphone is formed from 3-Odemethylation of oxycodone. Oxymorphone is 2 to 5 times higher in opioid receptor affinity and in analgesic potency than morphine.

Which is why oxycodone and its metabolites are used to treat pain. In the scientific world we call this the "no shit, sherlock" principle. Fentanyl and its cousins are on an order of 100s to 1000s as powerful as morphine, and guess what? They are great for treating interoperative pain. Would you rather your dad get his CABG without any opiates?

ANd yet, in your brilliance, you have neglected the issues of correlation as it differs with causation. Also, please look up something called "p-value." I shall wait while you google.

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:43:34 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

First of all, us doctors are well aware of the myriad of problems surrounding opiate use. We deal with this stuff every day. And, yes, we laugh at doctors who basically throw away their career because they played stupid games with opiate prescriptions.

Do you have some kind of insight into the problem? How would you both allow the reasonable prescribing of opiates for pain relief while preventing 100% any drug diversion?

Most prescriptions for oxycodone are not legitimate to begin with.

1) Emergency department visits involving misuse or abuse of pharmaceuticals increased 98.4% between 2004 and 2009 in the United States. Yet the number of patient visits did not rise correspondingly reflecting over-prescription.

2) Visits for misused or abused pharmaceuticals now exceed emergency department visits for use of illicit drugs.

3) The Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN) monitors drug‐related visits to hospital emergency departments (EDs) and drug‐related deaths investigated by medical examiners and coroners.

According to the 2010 DAWN report, “ED visits involving misuse or abuse of pharmaceuticals increased 98.4 percent between 2004 and 2009, from 627,291 visits in 2004 to 1,244,679 visits in 2009” (SAMHSA, 2010: 4).

Visits for misused pharmaceuticals now exceed emergency department visits for use of illicit drugs” (SAMHSA, 2010). The estimated number of emergency department (ED) visits involving nonmedical use of narcotic pain relievers rose from 144,644 in 2004 to 397,160 in 2009, an increase of 175 percent (SAMHSA 2010).

The estimated number of emergency department visits involving nonmedical use of benzodiazepines, drugs prescribed to treat insomnia and anxiety, increased 160 percent from 2004–2009 (from 143,546 to 373,328 visits) (SAMHSA 2010; SAMHSA 2009).

4) Of the $8.6 billion spent annually on prescription pain reliever abuse, $2.6 billion were healthcare costs, $1.4 billion were criminal justice costs, and $4.6 billion were workplace costs. That is pretty sad.

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:46:21 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:

First of all, us doctors are well aware of the myriad of problems surrounding opiate use. We deal with this stuff every day. And, yes, we laugh at doctors who basically throw away their career because they played stupid games with opiate prescriptions.

Do you have some kind of insight into the problem? How would you both allow the reasonable prescribing of opiates for pain relief while preventing 100% any drug diversion?

Most prescriptions for oxycodone are not legitimate to begin with.
You have no data to back that statement up. 1) Emergency department visits involving misuse or abuse of pharmaceuticals increased 98.4% between 2004 and 2009 in the United States. Yet the number of patient visits did not rise correspondingly reflecting over-prescription.

2) Visits for misused or abused pharmaceuticals now exceed emergency department visits for use of illicit drugs.

3) The Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN) monitors drug‐related visits to hospital emergency departments (EDs) and drug‐related deaths investigated by medical examiners and coroners.

According to the 2010 DAWN report, “ED visits involving misuse or abuse of pharmaceuticals increased 98.4 percent between 2004 and 2009, from 627,291 visits in 2004 to 1,244,679 visits in 2009” (SAMHSA, 2010: 4).

Visits for misused pharmaceuticals now exceed emergency department visits for use of illicit drugs” (SAMHSA, 2010). The estimated number of emergency department (ED) visits involving nonmedical use of narcotic pain relievers rose from 144,644 in 2004 to 397,160 in 2009, an increase of 175 percent (SAMHSA 2010).

The estimated number of emergency department visits involving nonmedical use of benzodiazepines, drugs prescribed to treat insomnia and anxiety, increased 160 percent from 2004–2009 (from 143,546 to 373,328 visits) (SAMHSA 2010; SAMHSA 2009).

4) Of the $8.6 billion spent annually on prescription pain reliever abuse, $2.6 billion were healthcare costs, $1.4 billion were criminal justice costs, and $4.6 billion were workplace costs. That is pretty sad.

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:46:58 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
If you're still in pain, go back and see the surgeon.

A week and a half out of orthopedic surgery you're still going to be in pain, though you should be on the improvement curve.

I wish the doc had given me something more powerful than Vikes for the shoulder surgery I had, at least for the first week or so. To me they're tic-tacs.

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:47:08 PM EDT

[#9]

In before the just tough it out / drugs are bad crowd?
Nope.

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:47:18 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
ANd yet, in your brilliance, you have neglected the issues of correlation as it differs with causation. Also, please look up something called "p-value." I shall wait while you google.

Nope, I am done. You want to ignore my point. I can guarantee you personally know a peer who over-prescribes or has self-diverted opioids.

Narcotic prescription drug abuse now kills more Americans than heroin and cocaine combined. You can't argue that.

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:47:48 PM EDT

[#11]

Morphine, Oxycodone. Add in a muscle relaxer with it, and you won't feel shit, captain.

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:47:55 PM EDT

[#12]

Coming from someone who has sold end of the road devices to treat chronic pain for the last 13 years, I see all kinds of red flags in this post. OP, see your doctor again. If there is nothing that needs to be addressed surgically, I would be very careful about taking pain meds so freely. If it's that bad, you might want to go to a legitimate pain clinic that can get you through this acute phase. Then again, what do I know? I've only been involved in almost 6,000 implants for patients like yourself. Be careful. Be very careful.

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:48:48 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Percocet is a combination of oxycodone hydrochloride and acetaminophen.

Oxycodone is an extremely addictive opioid. It converts in the body to morphone which is chemically similar to morphine.

Most young heroin users in the USA got their start by abusing Oxycodone class drugs.

It is cheaper and easier to get heroin then prescription drugs.

Taking these types of prescription drugs are habit forming and many of today's physicians are nothing more than glorified drug dealers.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ciwPussJ6HA/Tk_iZ0yDluI/AAAAAAAAAcc/H0BLngGx1lE/s1600/poison.jpg

Narc.

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:49:01 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

You need to go back to the doc and get more meds.

Oxycontin 20 mg BID is a great one. Or there is a newer drug on the market, Nucynta, equally effective against pain without being stoned out of your gourd.

And as for all the aleve and motrin suggestions, ignore them. You are a week and a half out of an ORIF, the risk of bleeding is still too great to take anything than can thin your blood.

I, personally, would recommend the Nucynta, better pain management and no GI issues or liver shredding.

I am going to call tomorrow. They do have me on a blood clot pill but that's it. The Percocet is 325mg which they gave me 60 pills to last 3.5 weeks until my next visit. When I take three they last about 3 hours and then I am back to 7or8 pain levels.

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:49:33 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:

First of all, us doctors are well aware of the myriad of problems surrounding opiate use. We deal with this stuff every day. And, yes, we laugh at doctors who basically throw away their career because they played stupid games with opiate prescriptions.

Do you have some kind of insight into the problem? How would you both allow the reasonable prescribing of opiates for pain relief while preventing 100% any drug diversion?

Most prescriptions for oxycodone are not legitimate to begin with.
You have no data to back that statement up. 1) Emergency department visits involving misuse or abuse of pharmaceuticals increased 98.4% between 2004 and 2009 in the United States. Yet the number of patient visits did not rise correspondingly reflecting over-prescription.

2) Visits for misused or abused pharmaceuticals now exceed emergency department visits for use of illicit drugs.

3) The Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN) monitors drug‐related visits to hospital emergency departments (EDs) and drug‐related deaths investigated by medical examiners and coroners.

According to the 2010 DAWN report, “ED visits involving misuse or abuse of pharmaceuticals increased 98.4 percent between 2004 and 2009, from 627,291 visits in 2004 to 1,244,679 visits in 2009” (SAMHSA, 2010: 4).

Visits for misused pharmaceuticals now exceed emergency department visits for use of illicit drugs” (SAMHSA, 2010). The estimated number of emergency department (ED) visits involving nonmedical use of narcotic pain relievers rose from 144,644 in 2004 to 397,160 in 2009, an increase of 175 percent (SAMHSA 2010).

The estimated number of emergency department visits involving nonmedical use of benzodiazepines, drugs prescribed to treat insomnia and anxiety, increased 160 percent from 2004–2009 (from 143,546 to 373,328 visits) (SAMHSA 2010; SAMHSA 2009).

4) Of the $8.6 billion spent annually on prescription pain reliever abuse, $2.6 billion were healthcare costs, $1.4 billion were criminal justice costs, and $4.6 billion were workplace costs. That is pretty sad.

Zing!

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:49:52 PM EDT

[#16]

While the rest debate, it's time you talk to the Dr. tomorrow and let them know it's not working.

When I had my leg surgeries back in 2008, they sent me home with a scrip for Vicodin that was the same strength I got 6 months before for a pulled tooth. When the Morphine they hospital gave me wore off at 12:30 in the morning the Dr. got rewarded with a call from my wife telling him the pain meds weren't working.

Dr: "On a scale from 1 to 10, what's his pain level"

Wife: "He's never been in this much pain before, so let's go with 12 or 13 on that scale..."

Dr: "Is that him screaming in the background?"

Wife: "Umm, Yeah..."

Dr: "Oh my!"

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:50:42 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Hell, just tell me what state your ER is in an I will give you stats on physicians even diverting drugs to themselves.

Between 1991–2001, 80% of U.S. anesthesiology residency programs reported experience with impaired residents, and 19% reported at least one pretreatment fatality. 2

As recently as 2005, the drug of choice for anesthesiologists entering treatment was an opioid, with fentanyl and sufentanil toping the list. 3

‘Pill Mill’ Doctor Expected To Surrender Soon

Pill mill' doctor convicted of causing 4 deaths

'Pill mill' probe snares Clear Lake Shores doctor

West Hollywood doctor accused of running 'pill mill'

Prescription Drug Deaths Increase Dramatically

A growing number of overdoses of legal opioids, sedatives and tranquilizers led to a 65 percent increase in hospitalizations over seven years

In fact, by 2006, overdoses of opioid analgesics alone (a class of pain relievers that includes morphine and methadone) were already causing more deaths than overdoses of cocaine and heroin combined.

The answer, clearly, is to arrest and jail the doctors. All of them.

Part of my daily job as a dentist is pain relief. Narcotics are an appropriate prescription for moderate to severe pain. But YOU get only ibuprofen.

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:52:01 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Zing!

Controlled Prescription Drugs

Approximately 7 million individuals aged 12 or older (2.8% of the age group) were current nonmedical users of CPDsz in 2009, according to NSDUH data.135

This represents a 12 percent increase from 2008 (6.2 million, or 2.5% of individuals aged 12 or older) and a resumption of the rate of abuse recorded in 2007 (6.9 million, or 2.8% of individuals aged 12 or older).

The 2008 to 2009 increase was attributable to small, but statistically significant, increases in stimulantaa (0.4% to
0.5%) and sedative (0.09% to 0.15%) abuse as well as a larger, but statistically insignificant, increase in pain reliever abuse (1.9% to
2.1%).

http://www.justice.gov/ndic/pubs44/44849/44849p.pdf

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:53:19 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
ANd yet, in your brilliance, you have neglected the issues of correlation as it differs with causation. Also, please look up something called "p-value." I shall wait while you google.

Nope, I am done. You want to ignore my point. I can guarantee you personally know a peer who over-prescribes or has self-diverted opioids.

Narcotic prescription drug abuse now kills more Americans than heroin and cocaine combined. You can't argue that.

You have not made a point. Abuse of perscribed narcotics has gone up, however, you have not proven that most narcotic prescriptions are unjustified. That was a blanket statement and without proof. ALL narcotics have addictive potential son, and we professionals know that and try to work around that. If that person with end stage cancer needs (shudder) evil oxycodone to make her last few weeks bearable, then dammit, I'll give them to her. YOu sound like those idiots that think all AR-15 rifles be banned because they are misused by some assholes and have "more thrust per squeeze" than a fudd rifle.

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:53:24 PM EDT

[#20]

Demerol works pretty good. Especialy if you wash it down with big glass of white wine!

Vicodin, on the other hand, makes my wife VERY sleepy and VERY horny. She basically says "OK, I'm taking Vicodin, have your way with me but I'll probably pass out halfway thru...and won't care."

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:54:23 PM EDT

[#21]

I'm in for the noob smackdown!

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:54:35 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
ANd yet, in your brilliance, you have neglected the issues of correlation as it differs with causation. Also, please look up something called "p-value." I shall wait while you google.

Nope, I am done. You want to ignore my point. I can guarantee you personally know a peer who over-prescribes or has self-diverted opioids.

Narcotic prescription drug abuse now kills more Americans than heroin and cocaine combined. You can't argue that.

So?

That still doesn't address the questions in my previous post. Here it is again:

How would you both allow the reasonable prescribing of opiates for pain relief while preventing 100% any drug diversion?

It can't be done. You have to accept that a certain percentage of prescriptions will be overused/abused by the patient or diverted to someone else, either being sold/traded or given away, or someone (usually a friend or family member) will steal it.

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:55:32 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Zing!

NSDUH data for 2002––the latest year for which such data are available––indicate that of the estimated 1,924,000 individuals who have used OxyContin nonmedically at least once in their lifetime, approximately 1,700,000 were aged 18 or older compared with 224,000 who were aged 12 to 17.

And just how in blue blazes does that state, in any way, shape or form, that "most prescriptions are unjustified?"

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:56:09 PM EDT

[#24]

I used Talwin NX for a few months when I tore up my leg. it has a narcotice equivlant to 60mg of codein and a barbituate like valume in it. it worked well

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:56:50 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

While the rest debate, it's time you talk to the Dr. tomorrow and let them know it's not working.

I am. I also plan on contacting a pain doctor as this is not the first time I have had this problem. When I had hip surgery then a THR I have chronic pain. I think they went light on this script since I told them that I do not do well on morphine.

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:56:52 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If you're still in pain, go back and see the surgeon.

A week and a half out of orthopedic surgery you're still going to be in pain, though you should be on the improvement curve.

I wish the doc had given me something more powerful than Vikes for the shoulder surgery I had, at least for the first week or so. To me they're tic-tacs.

Absolutely. And since the OP doesn't mention other symptoms it's unlikely to be infection, etc. but it still needs to be checked out. There is nothing better than a doc putting his two hands on the patient and, depending on the situation, getting an X-ray to figure out what to do next.

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:57:10 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Demerol works pretty good. Especialy if you wash it down with big glass of white wine!

Vicodin, on the other hand, makes my wife VERY sleepy and VERY horny. She basically says "OK, I'm taking Vicodin, have your way with me but I'll probably pass out halfway thru...and won't care."

I don't like demerol, its major metabolite, normerperidine, really reduces the seizure threshold. I will never use it, except 12.5 mg for post op shivering.

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:59:09 PM EDT

[#28]

Yeah,

Percocet works very well for me when it comes to pain.

Vicodin, it works ok, but makes me feel really edgy. Percocet makes me feel like god (which is why i like it for pain).

Posted: 9/18/2011 4:59:23 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
ANd yet, in your brilliance, you have neglected the issues of correlation as it differs with causation. Also, please look up something called "p-value." I shall wait while you google.

Nope, I am done. You want to ignore my point. I can guarantee you personally know a peer who over-prescribes or has self-diverted opioids.

Narcotic prescription drug abuse now kills more Americans than heroin and cocaine combined. You can't argue that.

So?

That still doesn't address the questions in my previous post. Here it is again:

How would you both allow the reasonable prescribing of opiates for pain relief while preventing 100% any drug diversion?

It can't be done. You have to accept that a certain percentage of prescriptions will be overused/abused by the patient or diverted to someone else, either being sold/traded or given away, or someone (usually a friend or family member) will steal it.

In addition. If he has a "peer" who is a diverter, then he must report him. Has he reported him yet, or is he part of the problem? A peer, eh? Are you a physician then?

Posted: 9/18/2011 5:03:14 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Percocet and Vicodin (hydrocodone) do almost nothing for me - different people vary a lot in terms of what painkillers work for them.

Sometimes it's not necessarily higher doses of a drug that will help, but a different drug.

Have you tried higher doses of "regular" painkillers. Large doses of Aleve (Naproxen), combined with alcohol, actually give me better pain relief than narcotics like Percocet and Vicodin.

So if I were you, I'd ask my doc for some different ones to try - he can write you a small prescription for several different drugs (like 12 pills), and you can try to find the one that works best for you.

Flexerol and wild turkey helped my back out more than anything!

The only muscle Flexeril relaxes on my is my staying awake muscle. I sleep like the dead on those.

Posted: 9/18/2011 5:03:14 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Zing!

NSDUH data for 2002––the latest year for which such data are available––indicate that of the estimated 1,924,000 individuals who have used OxyContin nonmedically at least once in their lifetime, approximately 1,700,000 were aged 18 or older compared with 224,000 who were aged 12 to 17.

And just how in blue blazes does that state, in any way, shape or form, that "most prescriptions are unjustified?"

Look up the term 'not medically necessary'. It means that millions of patients are using prescription narcotics for a condition that does not require it.

Posted: 9/18/2011 5:05:00 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Zing!

NSDUH data for 2002––the latest year for which such data are available––indicate that of the estimated 1,924,000 individuals who have used OxyContin nonmedically at least once in their lifetime, approximately 1,700,000 were aged 18 or older compared with 224,000 who were aged 12 to 17.

And just how in blue blazes does that state, in any way, shape or form, that "most prescriptions are unjustified?"

Waiting...

If it is taking this long to google something to justify the statement, you really should not have said it in the first place, else be placed into the realm of "guys who make shit up."

Posted: 9/18/2011 5:05:52 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Demerol works pretty good. Especialy if you wash it down with big glass of white wine!

Vicodin, on the other hand, makes my wife VERY sleepy and VERY horny. She basically says "OK, I'm taking Vicodin, have your way with me but I'll probably pass out halfway thru...and won't care."

I don't like demerol, its major metabolite, normerperidine, really reduces the seizure threshold. I will never use it, except 12.5 mg for post op shivering.

I had that BAD for an hour and a half after this surgery. They had some young woman pumping me with something (I never got the name of the drug used) that made her very worried. She called over another guy that looked at what she was doing and said keep going. I have had many surgeries in my life but this was the worst I have ever experienced.

Posted: 9/18/2011 5:06:26 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Percocet and Vicodin (hydrocodone) do almost nothing for me - different people vary a lot in terms of what painkillers work for them.

Sometimes it's not necessarily higher doses of a drug that will help, but a different drug.

Have you tried higher doses of "regular" painkillers. Large doses of Aleve (Naproxen), combined with alcohol, actually give me better pain relief than narcotics like Percocet and Vicodin.

So if I were you, I'd ask my doc for some different ones to try - he can write you a small prescription for several different drugs (like 12 pills), and you can try to find the one that works best for you.

Flexerol and wild turkey helped my back out more than anything!

The only muscle Flexeril relaxes on my is my staying awake muscle. I sleep like the dead on those.

I take 10mg in the evening, it does turn me into a zombie. I fill better the next day and it is helpful especially when taken with a pain killer

Posted: 9/18/2011 5:06:52 PM EDT

[#35]

add a 40 year old scotch chaser?

Posted: 9/18/2011 5:09:14 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Zing!

NSDUH data for 2002––the latest year for which such data are available––indicate that of the estimated 1,924,000 individuals who have used OxyContin nonmedically at least once in their lifetime, approximately 1,700,000 were aged 18 or older compared with 224,000 who were aged 12 to 17.

And just how in blue blazes does that state, in any way, shape or form, that "most prescriptions are unjustified?"

Look up the term 'not medically necessary'. It means that millions of patients are using prescription narcotics for a condition that does not require it.

The have used the medicine "nonmedically" , IE, abused it. IT still does not prove or even imply that "most prescriptions are not medically necessary." All it states is that a certain number of people have abused the medication. It could mean that they kept a pill left over from a surgery last year and used it for a euphoric effect this year, or stole it from grandmother, or bought it on a black market. You ever think that mose abusers gain their meds on the black market? Steal them perhaps? That statement does not support your claim that "most prescriptions are medically unjustified."

Posted: 9/18/2011 5:11:23 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Dilaudid, fentanyl etc...

I got Dilaudid for a kidney stone. I've never had a more effective pain killer!

I did feel sleepy, out of it and slightly eupohoric though.

Posted: 9/18/2011 5:11:37 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Zing!

NSDUH data for 2002––the latest year for which such data are available––indicate that of the estimated 1,924,000 individuals who have used OxyContin nonmedically at least once in their lifetime, approximately 1,700,000 were aged 18 or older compared with 224,000 who were aged 12 to 17.

And just how in blue blazes does that state, in any way, shape or form, that "most prescriptions are unjustified?"

Waiting...

If it is taking this long to google something to justify the statement, you really should not have said it in the first place, else be placed into the realm of "guys who make shit up."

Right... Note, I have used statistics and science in my posts which I can source. You have provided only your opinion.

Look Army Col. Chester Buckenmaier III, director of the Acute Pain Management Initiative and Army Surgeon General, Col. Paul Cordts had to say about the issue of over-prescribing narcotics.

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20110127/1adruggeneral27_cv.art.htm

Posted: 9/18/2011 5:15:14 PM EDT

[#39]

A friend just said what I have is weak.

This is what it says on the bottle: OXYCOD/APAP 5-325MG 1 or two tabs every 4 to 6 hours.

Posted: 9/18/2011 5:15:53 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
ANd yet, in your brilliance, you have neglected the issues of correlation as it differs with causation. Also, please look up something called "p-value." I shall wait while you google.

Nope, I am done. You want to ignore my point. I can guarantee you personally know a peer who over-prescribes or has self-diverted opioids.

Narcotic prescription drug abuse now kills more Americans than heroin and cocaine combined. You can't argue that.

So?

That still doesn't address the questions in my previous post. Here it is again:

How would you both allow the reasonable prescribing of opiates for pain relief while preventing 100% any drug diversion?

It can't be done. You have to accept that a certain percentage of prescriptions will be overused/abused by the patient or diverted to someone else, either being sold/traded or given away, or someone (usually a friend or family member) will steal it.

I was playing with my kids, but am gratified to see that the rhetorical beatdown commenced in my absence.

Posted: 9/18/2011 5:17:36 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
morphine tabs work ok.

Forgot to mention I can't take morphine as I have violent hallucinations with it.

Tell your doc this when you go back in. They have a big bag of chemistry tricks.

Posted: 9/18/2011 5:21:13 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:
ANd yet, in your brilliance, you have neglected the issues of correlation as it differs with causation. Also, please look up something called "p-value." I shall wait while you google.

Nope, I am done. You want to ignore my point. I can guarantee you personally know a peer who over-prescribes or has self-diverted opioids.

Narcotic prescription drug abuse now kills more Americans than heroin and cocaine combined. You can't argue that.

And I still don't give a damn what people do to themselves.

By any chance can you did up any stats of the OD deaths differentiating between the opioid OD and the liver failure death from the OD of acetaminophen that the drug companies stuff in it to keep folks from abusing them.

I'm just curious how many deaths you'll blame on doctors yet not worry about the drug company choice to put acetaminophen in large enough quantity that you'll smoke your liver long before you'll stop breathing from the dope.

Posted: 9/18/2011 5:21:42 PM EDT

[#43]

As seen on this website...

Posted: 9/18/2011 5:22:33 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Zing!

NSDUH data for 2002––the latest year for which such data are available––indicate that of the estimated 1,924,000 individuals who have used OxyContin nonmedically at least once in their lifetime, approximately 1,700,000 were aged 18 or older compared with 224,000 who were aged 12 to 17.

And just how in blue blazes does that state, in any way, shape or form, that "most prescriptions are unjustified?"

Waiting...

If it is taking this long to google something to justify the statement, you really should not have said it in the first place, else be placed into the realm of "guys who make shit up."

Right... Note, I have used statistics and science in my posts which I can source. You have provided only your opinion.

Look Army Col. Chester Buckenmaier III, director of the Acute Pain Management Initiative and Army Surgeon General, Col. Paul Cordts had to say about the issue of over-prescribing narcotics.

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20110127/1adruggeneral27_cv.art.htm

This is rich. I KNOW "TRIP" Buckenmaier, I trained with him, and worked with him for about 4 years. NOWHERE, I repeat, NOWHERE in that article does it say "MOST prescriptions for the medication are unjustfied." In fact, the general had several injuries and was using narcotics to treat his pain ( AND STILL IS USING THEM TO TREAT HIS PAIN ...did you read the whole article?) , so in the very example you gave was that the prescription for pain WAS medically justified, it just needed to be managed better and now it is being managed better..

Posted: 9/18/2011 5:25:15 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Zing!

NSDUH data for 2002––the latest year for which such data are available––indicate that of the estimated 1,924,000 individuals who have used OxyContin nonmedically at least once in their lifetime, approximately 1,700,000 were aged 18 or older compared with 224,000 who were aged 12 to 17.

And just how in blue blazes does that state, in any way, shape or form, that "most prescriptions are unjustified?"

Waiting...

If it is taking this long to google something to justify the statement, you really should not have said it in the first place, else be placed into the realm of "guys who make shit up."

Right... Note, I have used statistics and science in my posts which I can source. You have provided only your opinion.

Look Army Col. Chester Buckenmaier III, director of the Acute Pain Management Initiative and Army Surgeon General, Col. Paul Cordts had to say about the issue of over-prescribing narcotics.

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20110127/1adruggeneral27_cv.art.htm

And, in addition, you have not used any science in your posts or statistics to support your position because NONE of what you posted supports your statement that most (meaning the majority) of prescriptions were not medically justified. NOT A SINGLE ONE HAS EVEN IMPLIED THAT must less said that outright. You are making an inferrence that is not backed up by anything you have put forth.

Posted: 9/18/2011 5:26:39 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

I was playing with my kids, but am gratified to see that the rhetorical beatdown commenced in my absence.

Apparently, doing more of the same, with more deaths is the answer. The mere consideration that over-prescription is contributory is a non-starter.

Posted: 9/18/2011 5:28:04 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You need to go back to the doc and get more meds.

Oxycontin 20 mg BID is a great one. Or there is a newer drug on the market, Nucynta, equally effective against pain without being stoned out of your gourd.

And as for all the aleve and motrin suggestions, ignore them. You are a week and a half out of an ORIF, the risk of bleeding is still too great to take anything than can thin your blood.

I, personally, would recommend the Nucynta, better pain management and no GI issues or liver shredding.

I am going to call tomorrow. They do have me on a blood clot pill but that's it. The Percocet is 325mg which they gave me 60 pills to last 3.5 weeks until my next visit. When I take three they last about 3 hours and then I am back to 7or8 pain levels.

The warfarin is standard, just don't add anything on top of it that can further thin your blood. Not to mention Ibuprofen can affect union within the first few weeks.

When you go to the doc, tell him that the medication is not adequately controlling your pain, even in doses above those prescribed. Be honest about your pain levels, that's vitally important. And inquire about Nucynta, it really will make a world of difference.

And the 325 is the amount of tylenol in the percs. The first number 5, 7.5 or 10 is the amount of oxycodone.

Posted: 9/18/2011 5:29:31 PM EDT

[#48]

pain pills are the devil

Posted: 9/18/2011 5:30:35 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Dilaudid, fentanyl etc...

Truth. Fucking. A.

I recently had an experience that icluded a fentanyl epidural/pain pump and IV dilaudid every 3 hours. You don't feel much, but you can't really do much either. All I could do was sit my ass down in the Captains chair of the Velvet Enterprise and set course to Deep Space Fine.

I prefer pooping. At least once a week anyway.

Posted: 9/18/2011 5:30:37 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I was playing with my kids, but am gratified to see that the rhetorical beatdown commenced in my absence.

Apparently, doing more of the same, with more deaths is the answer. The mere consideration that over-prescription is contributory is a non-starter.

You said that "most were not medically justified." That is a far cry from "over-prescription is contributory." Please prove to me that most prescriptions given for narcotics in, say the last year, were not given for justifiable medical reasons (IE fraudulent.)

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Percocet - Is there a better pain killer? (Page 2 of 5)

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