It's not illegal to drink and drive.  Well, not here anyway... until you break .079 BAC.

Hell, I drive the paddy wagon up to front door and wait, bag limit of 10 per trip...

bars have parking lots for the guys who dont drink and go to pick up the drunk girls and also for the fat girls who "come along"

Yeah, but ... sitting outside a bar waiting for drunks is like trolling for dates at the family reunion.

It can be done, but it does make you look desperate.

TRG

That's what we did. When I was in the Conditions unit we monitored the clubs and bars because of the shootings we always had outside them. We had this one venue that used to have big club nights. If you just walked up and down the block checking the tops of the tires on the parked cars you'd usually find at least one gun a night.
We'd also get alot of guns sitting inside the parked cars in plain view.

Luckily that place finally got closed by the city.

That's how it should be done. We have an officer in our area who is know for this same practice. A lot better than parking down the street and shooting fish in a barrel IMO.

Yup, goes a long way towards improving relations with the customers and business owners.  And in my experience, you still pick up the really dumb drunks not too far down the road.

+1





 

I thought the conversation was about the public's perception, not the perception of the perp.

I saw a local PD sitting right at the point where the speed goes from 40 to 30 in town.  IMHO, it made his presence appear to be a 'gotcha' location rather than a legit 'stopping speeders' location.

If he had been a couple of hundred yards past the sign, the limit would still be 30, the stop would have been just as legitimate, but it would appear to be about speeding instead of trying to catch someone on a technicality.

Speed goes from 40 to 30 AT the sign.  We all know that the smart/expected thing to do is decelerate before you get to the speed change.

Again, it's about perception, not reality when viewed by the public at large.

TRG

The old gun in the wheel well.
Sometimes I'll sit in an unmarked (usually something super crappy like a cavalier) and watch for the guys who see the bouncers doing pat downs, then go back to their cars, and then get back in line.

Some of the clubs we had in our command had bouncers that would call us and describe the guys they turned away because they were armed.

It's the expectation of the public as well as the force that bars will be monitored, for impaired drivers as well as other criminal offences. Impaireds leaving the bar are convicted at exactly the same rate as any other location.

It's funny, on the nights we are "Too busy" to put cars out in front of the bars or circulating around the area overtly with lots of flashing lights to remind everyone that we are out there, those are the nights we get call after call of fights at the bar bringing us back there after all, but now we wind up even further behind because we were not being proactive enough. Visibility counts, too I notice a difference when we have 2 cars doubled up with 4 officers total, vs. 4 single officer cars.

Bottom line: The public at large does not want to have fights, drunks, public urination, disturbing behaviour, graffiti, broken beer bottles in the roadway, impaired drivers or anything else like that. Thats why we get paid, to control that crap. Public decency is not optional just because it's friday night, or tuesday morning if you're a shift worker, for that matter.

FWIW, most 'decent' folks are in bed at the times when cops would be sitting outside a bar.  

A cop buddy told me once, "Only drunks, fools, and criminals are on the road after 2AM."

TRG

The only members of the public that DONT want us sitting outside the bars, are the ones that plan to drink a few too many and wanna try to fly under the radar and make it home

I'm personally not a big fan of sitting on a bar....not cause I think it is "un-sporting", but because I get bored to quick just sitting in one place.....If u ask me, criminals already have the upper hand....they dont have to follow the rules like we do!  If u can tip the scales by sitting in the shadows and lurking outside a bar, then by all means why not?

drunks or not....gotta go where the people are.  At 3am when the bars let out the rest of the town here has long since rolled up the sidewalks.  If your presence is enough of a reminder to people to behave themselves and avoid fighting, destroying property, pissing in people's doorways and call a cab instead of driving home, you've accomplished something just by being there.  From the patron side of it, if one doesn't have the brain power to decide that shoving his fist or his buddy through a plate glass window half a block from the squad car, one might want to give up drinking.

how's it poaching when they can see you in plain sight and still stumble to the car, get in and drive off?  seems like the driver is sending out a gold engraved invitation to me

Why stand by and allow him to commit the crime, when you could stop him when you see him getting into the car, and say "hey buddy, get a ride, you are too drunk"?





 

I guess I expect people to use a little better judgement (even if I know better).  I've been on both sides.  I've done foot or vehicle patrol in the bar district trying to show a presence and remind people to behave, and I've been out with friends at closing time after poor planning and none of us needed to be driving.....we either hoofed it to somebody's house to sleep it off or got a ride and didn't have to have a squad car sitting outside to make the choice.  If you stumble past a police car on the way to your truck it just seems like a no-brainer to me....anybody too stupid to rethink things after that deserves a night in the drunk tank and should probably be prohibited from contaminating the gene pool by breeding.

It's pretty obvious most of you don't work in a state controlled by drunks.

I'm not a fan of sitting in front of the bars myself, unless there is an ongoing problem with one of them.  

I actually have more fun parking behind the bar and waiting for people to walk around to the back are.  Most of the time, they see me and 180 back.  Stop them and usually find some dope.

So do I like sitting around bars, yes.  But not solely for DUI enforcement.  There is more than DUIs at bars.

Far, far more.

_





 

I'm not an OWI guy and I don't sit on bars (I get off at 11pm) but I don't understand those that see it as "weak sauce" or "have no respect" for guys that do.  I've seen enough death, destruction, and mutilation caused by OWI to have no pity on those that choose to do so.  The worst call I've ever been on was one where a 9 year old boy was killed by a driver under the influence.  I was first on scene and he was alive and trapped under the car.  He had been riding his bike and the car left the roadway, the kid went under it as the car drug him over an embankment and went airborne.  It landed on him, crushing him.  He didn't live long enough to get to the hospital.  The other really bad OWI I had was where a drunk driver hit two motorcyclists, putting one in a waking coma and causing the other to lose both an arm and a leg.  The one in the waking coma (for the rest of his life) was 19 and on leave from the military.

As for stopping them before they get into their car, that's fine if you can.  But if I'm fairly certain they were going to drive they still get a ride to jail, just for public intox.  And they will be told repeatedly that their intent to drive is why they got pinched for PI.

I don't consider it weak to do it for DWIs, just a waste of time where I work because the DA won't charge the guy.

I'd love to see that law. Please post a link to it!



 

This is a great idea in theory....but problem is, statistics show the average DUII driver will have commited the crime 80+ times before getting caught.  Me giving a guy a warning only solves the problem for the moment.....the type of person that chooses to drive drunk once, will most deffinetely choose to drive drunk multiple times, or as long as they think they can get away with it.....call my rationale jaded or pessimistic....but sadly it is true.  Me catching them driving drunk is the true eye opener.....first time offenders get diversion.  Pay some fines go to some classes, learn yer lesson and DUII gets dropped off yer record.  This I would say changes the majority of peoples perception of drinking then driving....some re-offend, but I would wager that number is far less then those that learn the costly leason.  Unfortunantly since almost everybody drinks alcohol, they can somehow relate themselves with the average drunk driver, and therefor, like you, have a soft spot in their heart for them, as they often see themselves in that unfortunate predicament at some point in their lives.  Bottom line is, people make the decision to drive drunk.....if I see someone stumble to their vehicle, start it up and back outta their parking spot....I'm gonna light them up as soon as possible to minimize the risk to the public before they hit the road.....I wish I could stop them b4 they drive and hook em on intent to commit DUII, since that would be safer for the public, but since they have so many rights, our D.A. will drop it, since they didn't actually commit the crime yet.....the ole double edged sword.  

Bottom line, I don't cut breaks to drunk drivers.....u make the choice to drive, that is on u.  I will do my job and arrest u.....every time I catch u!  Sure alcohol effects yer perception and ability to make rationale thoughts, to some extent....but when I go out to drink, I plan ahead!  I have a DD, get a cab, or drink at home/friend's house and spend the night.  Hell as I post this, I just got home from my agencies annual Union party....Plenty of booze running free, I drank my fair share, but I had a DD (My wife) other guys had DD's also, or arranged to spend the night at the hotel where it was hosted. I expect others to do the same.  Pay the 30-50 bucks for a taxi ride, arrange for the designated driver to take u home, walk yer happy ass to a bar if u live close.  To me, drunk driving is a person being sellfish!  They didn't wanna pay the taxi, they didnt want the inconvenience of leaving their car at the bar and having to figure out how to get it back...they didn't wanna ask a buddy to help them out.....But they had no problem gambling with everyone elses lives while their 4 tires were on a public roadway!!!  Remember it is my family/friends and your family/friends out on the road while the drunks are driving around.....are u ok with that??

Fair enough to me.



I don't feel bad for them, nor to I cry when I'm putting the bracelets on.
 

Exactly what is the reason for this? My DA loves these cases, as its even more evidence of the crime.

It's because you work in OK and I work in NYC. Funny things is, they won't pursue that kind of case but they'll straight up ask me to lie in other cases.

Absolutely unacceptable.

You can stay away. Which where i work just means you will either get dispatched there for the brawl at 0201. Or worse dispatched to several different hospitals at 0300.

Or you can hang out there for 15 minutes until everyone leaves with no more broken bones, missing teeth or stab wounds than they arrived with.

I was going to make that point myself but you said it better.  

I've given breaks to drunk drivers only to have them do it again shortly after the break I gave them.  I don't give them breaks any more.

I supposed, looking back on it, often we just did things in a tactical thought. We went, we were there, when we thought our efforts would be efficient. effective, and visible. We did a seat belt check on Thursday afternoon, we did gate searches in the dead of the night or one day right after another even though we only had to do one a week, and we had patrols going through the enlisted club at closing or had them out on radar on the exit road.

One of "the messages" we were trying to get across to any watchers was we were not a lazy unit. Don't think you can predict when to do your crimes by watching us. Ie, we did an entrance gate search and then right after that, we did an exit gate search. That day. Don't think because you got through the entrance one with no contraband you could then drive off the base with something stolen because we already did the search.

A big part of that philosophy back then involved the anti-terrorism lessons of the late 80's. Be visible, show the enemy that you are not an easy target, that an attack on us will cost them.

As far as bars go now, would I still lean to doing it that way? Yes provided it is not the only place one patrols. Now I understand in a small community, the "mayor" may yell if the patrols pass there more than once a night because that's the tax base, that's what makes money in the town. I suppose there has to be compromises here and there but if one wants to stop crime.............................they shouldn't fight fair.

Fight legal, yes..................but don't fight fair and in this case, not fighting fair means being in locations where one is most likely to catch an offender and the police have more of the advantage.
________________________________________________________________________
(John tells the Terminator that they have to go to his place to pick up some things. "Negative. The T-1000 will definitely try to reacquire you there."
"You sure?"
"I would.", (w,stte), "Terminator 2")

on a friday or saturday everyone is drunk, your job is to keep them from driving, fighting and beating their loved ones.

If parking a patrol car infront of the bar makes everyone want to take a cab home then your taking care of business in your city.  Nothing lazy about that.

And the ones that are too drunk to even see the marked unit out front and still decide to pour themselves into their 5000lb road missile....are like shooting fish in a barrel

I will check the lots of the bars on my beat from time to time throughout the shift.  Its let the patrons know the police are out and may call for a cab when its time to go home.  It also gives me a chance to find people in the lot sitting in cars who are "up to no good."  I dont think there is anything wrong with watching people as they drive away from the lot.  Ultimately they have the choice of driving or not driving.

ETA- I love arresting drunk drivers!

Where I work we have to.... Not for drunk drivers though.... for fights.

We have a pretty active bar district, with probably 15 bars in a half mile (some biker bars, some clubs, some local folks, some detroit thug bars) so we get a fair share of group fights when they all let out.  (and every month or so a shooting.

Great zoning on my city's part there.