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Posted: 7/10/2021 2:07:00 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks, I'm quite happy with how it turned out. FYI the new 7.3 is actually port injected not DI. Ford when old school on this one. Pushrod motor! I would pick it on that alone,but they are a beast of a motor. |
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Posted: 7/10/2021 2:39:01 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s every Rotella.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Some will have their oil tested to learn how quick their oil breaks down. You could do this to see what your oil does with all the idling and how often to change. Yes indeed, I have a kit on the way from black stone to test at my next oil change. Most UOA on BITOG has been showing RGT running low on TBN at 5-6k miles, just FYI. It is not an extended interval oil at all. That’s every Rotella.  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/10/2021 2:50:41 PM EDT
[#3]
What is the perspective on long idles on a gas truck and the wear on other components that are changed/performed usually after you reach 50-75k miles? You will need to take all that in consideration like the other components that are based off of miles, because you will hit those numbers way before your odometer gets there.
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Posted: 7/10/2021 3:24:54 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Went I had my airplane the oil was changed every 25 hours. Not sure that's comparable as the 25 hour cycle is based on engine under load at cruise and full power takeoffs. OP's engine operates mostly at idle with no load and minimum revs/hr. |
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Posted: 7/10/2021 4:36:38 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is the perspective on long idles on a gas truck and the wear on other components that are changed/performed usually after you reach 50-75k miles? You will need to take all that in consideration like the other components that are based off of miles, because you will hit those numbers way before your odometer gets there. Like what? I can't think of any that are miles based other than fluids and filters. |
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Posted: 7/10/2021 4:58:10 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like what? I can't think of any that are miles based other than fluids and filters. It’s a good question. First thing that comes to mind is the belts, I’m sure there are other things… |
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Posted: 7/10/2021 10:17:18 PM EDT
[#7]
A I live in Alaska and wouldn't let it idle all day unless it was neg 20 or colder
B I would change the oil about 250 to 300 hrs, get regular lab reports (200 hrs @ 60mph = 12,000 miles) C Use the autostart to warm rig up and cut idling time as much as poss. Fo you have the time and cash to change oil every 10 days or less on your schedule? Try to get your oil changes to once a month and idle time to 3hrs a day or your truck will not last 150k If I did have to run a truck on your current schedule I would buy the cheapest model available with base power. |
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Posted: 7/10/2021 10:34:12 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just from my perspective in the oil industry on how we advise fleets to extend oil drains: Base it off 48 miles per hour. This is very conservative. Extend out from there. We have some fleets going 900 hours under the right conditions. And we have some fleets that don't go 150 hours. Fords info is both diesel and based on their oil. This is where technical aspects of oil and such come into play a bit. Is it true that the oil doesn't break down so much as the additives do? Not talking about dirt or oil that has been cooked or diluted with fuel. |
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Posted: 7/10/2021 10:42:29 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Foxtrot08 Is it true that the oil doesn't break down so much as the additives do? Not talking about dirt or oil that has been cooked or diluted with fuel. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Just from my perspective in the oil industry on how we advise fleets to extend oil drains: Base it off 48 miles per hour. This is very conservative. Extend out from there. We have some fleets going 900 hours under the right conditions. And we have some fleets that don't go 150 hours. Fords info is both diesel and based on their oil. This is where technical aspects of oil and such come into play a bit. Is it true that the oil doesn't break down so much as the additives do? Not talking about dirt or oil that has been cooked or diluted with fuel. It’s a little complicated. But yes. The hydrocarbon chains do oxidize, but the main issue with engine oils is the shearing of the viscosity improvers. Then also dilution / contamination aspect. |
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Posted: 7/10/2021 11:10:05 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a good question. First thing that comes to mind is the belts, I'm sure there are other things Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Like what? I can't think of any that are miles based other than fluids and filters. It's a good question. First thing that comes to mind is the belts, I'm sure there are other things coolant timing chain plugs tranny fluid/filter |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 10:31:30 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: water pumpnope coolant usually based on years not miles timing chainlmao no. Pushrod engine timing chain is essentiallya lifetimecomponent plugs fair enough but that's usually at 100k miles. tranny fluid/filter since it's idling the fluid isn't being worked at shouldn't need changing outside of established miles criteria |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 10:56:33 AM EDT
[#12]
OP,
This is a great source of maintenance info: http://www.agcoauto.com/content/Preventing_Problems About oil change frequency: http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/54 |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 11:28:22 AM EDT
[#13]
@Foxtrot08 I have a 2016 2500 Sprinter. They call for oil change every 20,000 miles. No idling and no off-road. Am I crazy to follow their specs ?
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Posted: 7/11/2021 11:32:32 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Foxtrot08 I have a 2016 2500 Sprinter. They call for oil change every 20,000 miles. No idling and no off-road. Am I crazy to follow their specs ? Also I bought the van new and the dealer does the service. It has 67000 miles. |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 11:34:55 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Foxtrot08 I have a 2016 2500 Sprinter. They call for oil change every 20,000 miles. No idling and no off-road. Am I crazy to follow their specs ? Which engine is it? |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 11:35:54 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Foxtrot08 I have a 2016 2500 Sprinter. They call for oil change every 20,000 miles. No idling and no off-road. Am I crazy to follow their specs ? Yes. Unless vehicles are disposable and your expectation of vehicle life is ~100,000 miles plus/minus 20k miles. |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 11:51:14 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also I bought the van new and the dealer does the service. It has 67000 miles. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: @Foxtrot08 I have a 2016 2500 Sprinter. They call for oil change every 20,000 miles. No idling and no off-road. Am I crazy to follow their specs ? Also I bought the van new and the dealer does the service. It has 67000 miles. Alright. I looked up all the manuals for the 3.0 and 2.4L. Assuming you’re using an an Mb229.51/228.51 oil such as a Euro 5w40. You should be good for around 18,000-19,000 miles under normal conditions. 20,000 miles would be stretching their 30,000km interval service. Not far, but still a little stretch. Reason why: 3 to 3.3 gallons of oil MB / euro specs have had a better high temp high shear rating for a while. Better formulated oil than traditional US oils (thus more expensive.) |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 11:53:30 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which engine is it? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: @Foxtrot08 I have a 2016 2500 Sprinter. They call for oil change every 20,000 miles. No idling and no off-road. Am I crazy to follow their specs ? Which engine is it? 2.1 L |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 1:20:12 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A I live in Alaska and wouldn't let it idle all day unless it was neg 20 or colder B I would change the oil about 250 to 300 hrs, get regular lab reports (200 hrs @ 60mph = 12,000 miles) C Use the autostart to warm rig up and cut idling time as much as poss. Do you have the time and cash to change oil every 10 days or less on your schedule? Try to get your oil changes to once a month and idle time to 3hrs a day or your truck will not last 150k If I did have to run a truck on your current schedule I would buy the cheapest model available with base power. "A I live in Alaska and wouldn't let it idle all day unless it was neg 20 or colder" I work out of the truck all day, anything colder than 10deg F I won't be sitting in there trying to type freezing my ass off, also I'm powering electronics so I need to have the motor running to power the inverter. Do you have the time and cash to change oil every 10 days or less on your schedule? Using decent full synthetic and a OEM filter it cost me around ~$55 CAD for a oil change, I bill $200-$400 a day for the truck so it's a non issue. I have a oil drain valve which makes a oil change not all that messy and takes little time. I have a warm place to do it in the winter, non issue. "Try to get your oil changes to once a month and idle time to 3hrs a day or your truck will not last 150k" Not sure if your saying this from your experience or have any data to back this up but my experience have not shown this at all. My last 4 trucks were GM 6.0L gas and saw this same high idle times I explained in my OP, all of them went 200k miles and 7000-9000 hours without any engine trouble at all, only did preventative maintenance, a couple got new belts, a couple were still on the factory belts, spark plugs, etc. This truck I plan to keep even longer so I really want to keep up on all aspects. "If I did have to run a truck on your current schedule I would buy the cheapest model available with base power" I kind of have been doing this for the last 12 years with GM 6.0Ls, This time I upgraded to the 7.3L over the base ford 6.2L. It was a low cost up grade and in theory is over built but time will tell. The 6.2 is certainly a proven motor. |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 1:21:54 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP, This is a great source of maintenance info: http://www.agcoauto.com/content/Preventing_Problems About oil change frequency: http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/54 Thanks, I will have a read. |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 2:12:48 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also because I’m feeling spicy. 1. The EP moly additive has no NSN number. 2. It has no MIL spec approval number. 3. Has no General Electric turbine engine specs. 4. Meets 0 FAA or MIL aero specs. And to the actual oil part: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/OilViscosityChart-Valvoline-956828.gif Science says your wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Use Schaeffer's Moly EP molybdenum additive. They invented it to get Blackhawk helicopters to quit crashing in the desert. It will make your engine run 25-50 degrees cooler, because less friction=less heat=less wear on your engine. Also because I’m feeling spicy. 1. The EP moly additive has no NSN number. 2. It has no MIL spec approval number. 3. Has no General Electric turbine engine specs. 4. Meets 0 FAA or MIL aero specs. And to the actual oil part: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/OilViscosityChart-Valvoline-956828.gif Science says your wrong. https://www.parttarget.com/9150-01-436-2829_9150014362829_221MOLYULTRA800EP0-14-5OZTUBE.html/-0AB065E9-9267-4B51-8D68-B30E1B8A9379 >NSN number 9150-01-436-2829 http://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/222-700-td.pdf http://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/244-9000-td.pdf >Supreme 9000 SAE 5W-40 meets and exceeds the following manufacturers’ specifications and requirements: Military Specifications MIL-PRF-2104H and A-A-52306A Please note that Schaeffer's Moly additive is in these products. Science says your wrong. You "trust the science"? I trust my eyes. I saw an engine on flir before and after adding the additive. The additive made the engine run cooler. |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 2:18:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.parttarget.com/9150-01-436-2829_9150014362829_221MOLYULTRA800EP0-14-5OZTUBE.html/-0AB065E9-9267-4B51-8D68-B30E1B8A9379 >NSN number 9150-01-436-2829 http://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/222-700-td.pdf http://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/244-9000-td.pdf >Supreme 9000 SAE 5W-40 meets and exceeds the following manufacturers’ specifications and requirements: Military Specifications MIL-PRF-2104H and A-A-52306A Please note that Schaeffer's Moly additive is in these products. You "trust the science"? I trust my eyes. I saw an engine on flir before and after adding the additive. The additive made the engine run cooler. Smells like popcorn. |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 2:20:40 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.parttarget.com/9150-01-436-2829_9150014362829_221MOLYULTRA800EP0-14-5OZTUBE.html/-0AB065E9-9267-4B51-8D68-B30E1B8A9379 >NSN number 9150-01-436-2829 http://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/222-700-td.pdf http://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/244-9000-td.pdf >Supreme 9000 SAE 5W-40 meets and exceeds the following manufacturers’ specifications and requirements: Military Specifications MIL-PRF-2104H and A-A-52306A Please note that Schaeffer's Moly additive is in these products. You "trust the science"? I trust my eyes. I saw an engine on flir before and after adding the additive. The additive made the engine run cooler. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Use Schaeffer's Moly EP molybdenum additive. They invented it to get Blackhawk helicopters to quit crashing in the desert. It will make your engine run 25-50 degrees cooler, because less friction=less heat=less wear on your engine. Also because I’m feeling spicy. 1. The EP moly additive has no NSN number. 2. It has no MIL spec approval number. 3. Has no General Electric turbine engine specs. 4. Meets 0 FAA or MIL aero specs. And to the actual oil part: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/OilViscosityChart-Valvoline-956828.gif Science says your wrong. https://www.parttarget.com/9150-01-436-2829_9150014362829_221MOLYULTRA800EP0-14-5OZTUBE.html/-0AB065E9-9267-4B51-8D68-B30E1B8A9379 >NSN number 9150-01-436-2829 http://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/222-700-td.pdf http://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/244-9000-td.pdf >Supreme 9000 SAE 5W-40 meets and exceeds the following manufacturers’ specifications and requirements: Military Specifications MIL-PRF-2104H and A-A-52306A Please note that Schaeffer's Moly additive is in these products. Science says your wrong. You "trust the science"? I trust my eyes. I saw an engine on flir before and after adding the additive. The additive made the engine run cooler. 1. The NSN number you posted is for a grease. Not your supposed “Blackhawk Engine oil additive.” Its a 14.5 oz tube of grease. Edit: NSN number was granted to the supply house. Not directly to Schaeffer. 2. The MIL spec the 5w40 meets, also, isn’t a aviation oil. As you claim. The mil spec it meets, is… well, what every Diesel engine oil meets: MIL-PRF-2104H, PERFORMANCE SPECIFICATION: LUBRICATING OIL, INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE, COMBAT/TACTICAL SERVICE (12 JUL 2004) [SUPERSEDING MIL-L-2104F]., This performance specification covers engine oils suitable for lubrication of reciprocating compression-ignition internal combustion engines and for power transmission fluid applications in combat/tactical service equipment (see 6. So congrats… it’s… yep, an engine oil for an ICE engine. Nailed it. Also, not your EP moly additive. And third. I asked a question: Why would you want your engine to run 20 degrees cooler if you were not actively overheating it? |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 2:29:06 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 2.1 L Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: @Foxtrot08 I have a 2016 2500 Sprinter. They call for oil change every 20,000 miles. No idling and no off-road. Am I crazy to follow their specs ? Which engine is it? 2.1 L Still the same advice as above. Just 3 gallons of product instead of 3.3 |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 2:34:36 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You "trust the science"? I trust my eyes. I saw an engine on flir before and after adding the additive. The additive made the engine run cooler. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Use Schaeffer's Moly EP molybdenum additive. They invented it to get Blackhawk helicopters to quit crashing in the desert. It will make your engine run 25-50 degrees cooler, because less friction=less heat=less wear on your engine. Also because I’m feeling spicy. 1. The EP moly additive has no NSN number. 2. It has no MIL spec approval number. 3. Has no General Electric turbine engine specs. 4. Meets 0 FAA or MIL aero specs. And to the actual oil part: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/OilViscosityChart-Valvoline-956828.gif Science says your wrong. You "trust the science"? I trust my eyes. I saw an engine on flir before and after adding the additive. The additive made the engine run cooler. Also, while we’re at it. Explain to me hydrodynamic lubrication and it’s application here. Also, while we’re here. How about the difference between boundary lubrication vs barrier. And while we’re at this, how different base oils affect the various properties of engine oils. Then correspondingly how heat plays an affect on that. While we’re at that, why don’t you tell me the heat transfer properties of those base oils too? Oh, and also update me on how each base oil plays differently with additive packages. |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 2:38:17 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.parttarget.com/9150-01-436-2829_9150014362829_221MOLYULTRA800EP0-14-5OZTUBE.html/-0AB065E9-9267-4B51-8D68-B30E1B8A9379 >NSN number 9150-01-436-2829 http://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/222-700-td.pdf http://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/244-9000-td.pdf >Supreme 9000 SAE 5W-40 meets and exceeds the following manufacturers' specifications and requirements: Military Specifications MIL-PRF-2104H and A-A-52306A Please note that Schaeffer's Moly additive is in these products. You "trust the science"? I trust my eyes. I saw an engine on flir before and after adding the additive. The additive made the engine run cooler. And the dude you are arguing does what exactly for a living?  
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Posted: 7/11/2021 2:43:41 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Bought a new truck recently(F350 7.3L Master race). Will keep it for 7-9 years / 200-300k miles so I really want to take good care of it. It idles a lot since I use it as a mobile office. Typical work day is a 1-1.5hr drive to site, 13hrs or idling, 1-1.5hr drive home. Sometimes when staying in remote locations it might only be a 10min drive, 13hrs idle. When it’s really cold (-30c or colder) I will just let it run 24/7. My question is, when should I change oil based on hours? I dumped it at 1k miles and 65hrs and just did it again at 327hrs (200 idle hrs) and 5k miles. I’m running Shell Rotella Gas Truck 5w30 and OEM filters, I’m of the mindset oil is cheep, engines aren’t. I know it has a Oil life monitor but I don’t like going by that, for the sake of this thread let’s pretend it doesn’t exist. Can someone please tag our resident oil expert @foxtrot08, I don’t know how. (Maybe I just did? Idk) Not to Hijack this thread, but what are you seeing for MPG? |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 2:47:52 PM EDT
[#28]
I've "heard" every 1 hour of idling is equal to 33 miles. Not sure if true.
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Posted: 7/11/2021 2:51:46 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not to Hijack this thread, but what are you seeing for MPG? Around 14 on flat land with the 37s. Running at 75mph with around 1k lb payload. With the 37s and 3.73 gears the rpms are around 1600 at 70 mph IIRC. |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 2:52:06 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Take an average of 48 miles per hour. So hypothetically. If you wanted a 7500 mile ish oil change, you would go around 150-160 hours. 9000 mile would be 180-190 hours. Etc. I change my engine oil via hours more than miles anyways. I go about 150 hours in my F150. So you went about 10000 miles if you were driving. At a 200hr oil change. This. I would probably figure changing it at 5k or the equal in hours off the 48mph rule, whichever first. It’s a new engine platform, so the verdict is out. Error on the side caution until more is known of the weak points |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 2:55:33 PM EDT
[#31]
He’s talking about a 7.3 Godzilla not powerstroke
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Posted: 7/11/2021 2:56:13 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s every Rotella. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Some will have their oil tested to learn how quick their oil breaks down. You could do this to see what your oil does with all the idling and how often to change. Yes indeed, I have a kit on the way from black stone to test at my next oil change. Most UOA on BITOG has been showing RGT running low on TBN at 5-6k miles, just FYI. It is not an extended interval oil at all. That’s every Rotella. @Foxtrot08 it seems your not fond of Rotella, do you have any recommendations for my application? How about the Kirkland 5w30? I run this in all my other gas motor applications. Is this a step down or up from Rotella gas truck 5w30. |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 2:58:01 PM EDT
[#33]
No recommendation from me other than oil analysis is definitely worth the money. On my wood truck it caught a leaking intake manifold gasket just based on the contaminants in the oil long before it caused me a problem. On our Subaru it confirmed the factory recommended 6k oil change interval with synthetic 0w20 was ideal for how we drove it. I’ll send one in on my 6.4 Hemi when I hit 20k.
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Posted: 7/11/2021 3:03:30 PM EDT
[#34]
If you're idling that much can you find another way to work remotely, say a portable generator and a camper shell or something. That's a lot of money for a vehicle and fuel just to sit in one place all the time.
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Posted: 7/11/2021 3:04:43 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Foxtrot08 it seems your not fond of Rotella, do you have any recommendations for my application? How about the Kirkland 5w30? I run this in all my other gas motor applications. Is this a step down or up from Rotella gas truck 5w30. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Some will have their oil tested to learn how quick their oil breaks down. You could do this to see what your oil does with all the idling and how often to change. Yes indeed, I have a kit on the way from black stone to test at my next oil change. Most UOA on BITOG has been showing RGT running low on TBN at 5-6k miles, just FYI. It is not an extended interval oil at all. That’s every Rotella. @Foxtrot08 it seems your not fond of Rotella, do you have any recommendations for my application? How about the Kirkland 5w30? I run this in all my other gas motor applications. Is this a step down or up from Rotella gas truck 5w30. Rotella T4 (their “base” retail Diesel engine oil) is the biggest marketing scam in the oil industry. You pay $10-15 a gallon, for oil that has a cost of $5. It literally uses the cheapest polymer package around. Has known shearing issues. Has known TBN issues. Has known issues passing the DD13 wear scar test. But fuck, people buy the shit out of it. T5 ain’t all that great. The gas engine oil, is essentially rebranded pennzoil. Gasoline engine oil specs are significantly tighter than Diesel engine oils because of specs like Dexos. The box of specifications is much smaller, so to speak. I don’t play brand specifics really with gasoline engine oils because, if they’re within spec - there really isn’t a whole lot one oil can be better than another, besides the splitting of hairs between mostly, group 3 base oil types. Or how much PAO they have blended into it. So my opinion on the Rotella gas truck oil is neutral. It will be similar to the Kirkland brand (Warren / high point capital now?) The Rotella will probably use SOPUS group 3 GTL base oil. Which has some pros and cons. Kirkland will be similar to my brand. Etc. gas engine oils while are not the same.. are pretty similar. |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 3:06:14 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. I would probably figure changing it at 5k or the equal in hours off the 48mph rule, whichever first. It’s a new engine platform, so the verdict is out. Error on the side caution until more is known of the weak points Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Take an average of 48 miles per hour. So hypothetically. If you wanted a 7500 mile ish oil change, you would go around 150-160 hours. 9000 mile would be 180-190 hours. Etc. I change my engine oil via hours more than miles anyways. I go about 150 hours in my F150. So you went about 10000 miles if you were driving. At a 200hr oil change. This. I would probably figure changing it at 5k or the equal in hours off the 48mph rule, whichever first. It’s a new engine platform, so the verdict is out. Error on the side caution until more is known of the weak points Normally I’d agree. But the engine was developed for high idle applications (thus the optional pto), Op is using a full synthetic vs Syn blend. And the 48mph is pretty conservative for a pick up truck. Thus my recommendation. However, you’re absolutely not wrong. You could start off at ~110 hours. And go from there. |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 3:09:52 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: water pumpnope coolant usually based on years not miles timing chainlmao no. Pushrod engine timing chain is essentiallya lifetimecomponent plugs fair enough but that's usually at 100k miles. tranny fluid/filter since it's idling the fluid isn't being worked at shouldn't need changing outside of established miles criteria Push rod timing chains stretch just like any other timing chains. Go grab a 150k mile push rod engine and degree the cam and you’ll be shocked at how far out it is. Transmission fluid is still being pressurized and worked through pumps and restrictions. If they are idling I gear it’s not much different then doing 60 mph down the highway. Spark plugs on my 3.5 ecoboost (2016) were called for at 60k. At 70k I started having misfire issues under laps. |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 3:13:54 PM EDT
[#38]
@Foxtrot08
Out of curiosity, how does Castrol gtx diesel ck4 15w40 compare to Rotella T4 15w40? |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 3:16:47 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Foxtrot08 Out of curiosity, how does Castrol gtx diesel ck4 15w40 compare to Rotella T4 15w40? I’d have to look at some samples. I know the Castrol Vectron oil is.. a stanch competitor. 900 hour oil drains in trash trucks. We’ve had to pull a lot of stops out to get any other brand to put that in writing. |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 3:20:18 PM EDT
[#40]
Doesn't the integrated oil life monitor take in to account hours? Probably just go by that...
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Posted: 7/11/2021 3:34:29 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’d have to look at some samples. I know the Castrol Vectron oil is.. a stanch competitor. 900 hour oil drains in trash trucks. We’ve had to pull a lot of stops out to get any other brand to put that in writing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: @Foxtrot08 Out of curiosity, how does Castrol gtx diesel ck4 15w40 compare to Rotella T4 15w40? I’d have to look at some samples. I know the Castrol Vectron oil is.. a stanch competitor. 900 hour oil drains in trash trucks. We’ve had to pull a lot of stops out to get any other brand to put that in writing.  Based on your comments about rotella I'm looking to ditch it in favor of something else but, I'm hesitant to move to synthetic because of the mileage. |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 3:37:05 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Rotella T4 (their “base” retail Diesel engine oil) is the biggest marketing scam in the oil industry. You pay $10-15 a gallon, for oil that has a cost of $5. It literally uses the cheapest polymer package around. Has known shearing issues. Has known TBN issues. Has known issues passing the DD13 wear scar test. But fuck, people buy the shit out of it. T5 ain’t all that great. The gas engine oil, is essentially rebranded pennzoil. Gasoline engine oil specs are significantly tighter than Diesel engine oils because of specs like Dexos. The box of specifications is much smaller, so to speak. I don’t play brand specifics really with gasoline engine oils because, if they’re within spec - there really isn’t a whole lot one oil can be better than another, besides the splitting of hairs between mostly, group 3 base oil types. Or how much PAO they have blended into it. So my opinion on the Rotella gas truck oil is neutral. It will be similar to the Kirkland brand (Warren / high point capital now?) The Rotella will probably use SOPUS group 3 GTL base oil. Which has some pros and cons. Kirkland will be similar to my brand. Etc. gas engine oils while are not the same.. are pretty similar. So at half the cost I should just run the kirkland then is what I'm hearing? I will have to read up on SOPUS group 3 GTL base oil. Thanks for all the info you have provided in this(and other oil) thread. |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 3:44:02 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also because I'm feeling spicy. 1. The EP moly additive has no NSN number. 2. It has no MIL spec approval number. 3. Has no General Electric turbine engine specs. 4. Meets 0 FAA or MIL aero specs. And to the actual oil part: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/OilViscosityChart-Valvoline-956828.gif Science says your wrong. |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 3:49:52 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1. The NSN number you posted is for a grease. Not your supposed “Blackhawk Engine oil additive.” Its a 14.5 oz tube of grease. Edit: NSN number was granted to the supply house. Not directly to Schaeffer. 2. The MIL spec the 5w40 meets, also, isn’t a aviation oil. As you claim. The mil spec it meets, is… well, what every Diesel engine oil meets: So congrats… it’s… yep, an engine oil for an ICE engine. Nailed it. Also, not your EP moly additive. And third. I asked a question: Why would you want your engine to run 20 degrees cooler if you were not actively overheating it? Because heat is wasted energy. Note: the emulsified molybdenum additive was not used in the Blackhawk engine, it was used in the grease. |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 3:50:25 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So at half the cost I should just run the kirkland then is what I'm hearing? I will have to read up on SOPUS group 3 GTL base oil. Thanks for all the info you have provided in this(and other oil) thread. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Rotella T4 (their “base” retail Diesel engine oil) is the biggest marketing scam in the oil industry. You pay $10-15 a gallon, for oil that has a cost of $5. It literally uses the cheapest polymer package around. Has known shearing issues. Has known TBN issues. Has known issues passing the DD13 wear scar test. But fuck, people buy the shit out of it. T5 ain’t all that great. The gas engine oil, is essentially rebranded pennzoil. Gasoline engine oil specs are significantly tighter than Diesel engine oils because of specs like Dexos. The box of specifications is much smaller, so to speak. I don’t play brand specifics really with gasoline engine oils because, if they’re within spec - there really isn’t a whole lot one oil can be better than another, besides the splitting of hairs between mostly, group 3 base oil types. Or how much PAO they have blended into it. So my opinion on the Rotella gas truck oil is neutral. It will be similar to the Kirkland brand (Warren / high point capital now?) The Rotella will probably use SOPUS group 3 GTL base oil. Which has some pros and cons. Kirkland will be similar to my brand. Etc. gas engine oils while are not the same.. are pretty similar. So at half the cost I should just run the kirkland then is what I'm hearing? I will have to read up on SOPUS group 3 GTL base oil. Thanks for all the info you have provided in this(and other oil) thread. Its really hard for me to defend expensive branded oil. Sure there are “differences” but if you’re changing your oil regularly and using an API / ILSAC approved oil, that is licensed/fully formulated, especially a Dexos spec one. Ehh… once you slap the Dexos approval on, it’s… close enough to the same. |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 3:52:10 PM EDT
[#46]
Ford "spec" for 7.3 oil is "WSS-M2C913-A"
It's very hard to find any info about this that actually is useful to see if a certain oil meets this "spec". Also have read that the oil isn't required to meet that spec, it's just fords recommendation. Fords requirement is just "SN Plus" which almost every full synthetic has. Having a really hard time finding anything official from ford on the subject. I would rather switch to the Kirkland(warren) but my only concern would be a warrenty fight if it should arise. Not so much worried that the oil itself would be the problem, just that ford might want to make it one. |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 4:02:51 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because heat is wasted energy. Note: the emulsified molybdenum additive was not used in the Blackhawk engine, it was used in the grease. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 1. The NSN number you posted is for a grease. Not your supposed “Blackhawk Engine oil additive.” Its a 14.5 oz tube of grease. Edit: NSN number was granted to the supply house. Not directly to Schaeffer. 2. The MIL spec the 5w40 meets, also, isn’t a aviation oil. As you claim. The mil spec it meets, is… well, what every Diesel engine oil meets: So congrats… it’s… yep, an engine oil for an ICE engine. Nailed it. Also, not your EP moly additive. And third. I asked a question: Why would you want your engine to run 20 degrees cooler if you were not actively overheating it? Because heat is wasted energy. Note: the emulsified molybdenum additive was not used in the Blackhawk engine, it was used in the grease. What if… I told you… thicker oil generated more friction? Actually. I didn’t tell you the graph I posted before told you that. Engines are meant to run at a certain temperature range for idea combustion process. Thus, engine oils are designed to run at a certain operating temperature range. Typically around 100c. Which is why they’re measured at 100c. Now, you also have the HTHS test. That is done at a much higher temp range. So by thickening the oil, which is what you’re doing, it’s going to be moving slower. By moving slower it’s going to be more prone to getting scalded. By getting scalded it’s going to thin out at that spot.  Which, in this case say a bearing. The hot spot of the oil will get thin. Then you’ll have a wear spot in that area. You will also prematurely shear the oil, also prematurely oxidize the oil. So you want it to run at OEM spec pressures and temperatures unless you really know what the fuck your doing. Simply saying “oh I put an iR gun on an engine after I poured bullshit in it” tells me nothing. Literally, absolutely, nothing. Not what oil you were using before or after. Not what the external temps was. What testing procedure you used. Not how much the engine cooled down while it was off. Absolutely nothing. Your fingers typed and shit came out, bluntly. The other thing by using a Viscosity thickener like that is it affects the most crucial time in your engine: cold start. By thickening your oil, you’re slowing the rate it gets into the engine. Thus causing premature wear. If you looked at my earlier graph and understood it at all, you’d be like holy fuck, I posted dumb. If you knew what you were using. Yet so far you said some additive was developed for black hawks. False. That it’s done xyz. Without posting any specifics of your testing. And you’ve made up a false counter argument to my points. By saying an engine oil meets a mil spec… for ICE engines. Not turbines. And then a grease - not your additive - has an NSN. Which by a quick google search you can see it was the parts warehouse that sold it, has the NSN number. |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 4:04:51 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ford "spec" for 7.3 oil is "WSS-M2C913-A" It's very hard to find any info about this that actually is useful to see if a certain oil meets this "spec". Also have read that the oil isn't required to meet that spec, it's just fords recommendation. Fords requirement is just "SN Plus" which almost every full synthetic has. Having a really hard time finding anything official from ford on the subject. I would rather switch to the Kirkland(warren) but my only concern would be a warrenty fight if it should arise. Not so much worried that the oil itself would be the problem, just that ford might want to make it one. Ford follows API. So any GF6 / SP oil will meet Ford specs. |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 4:25:53 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What if… I ... meets a mil spec… for ICE engines. Not turbines. And then a grease - not your additive - has an NSN. Which by a quick google search you can see it was the parts warehouse that sold it, has the NSN number. You don't know anything about emulsified molybdenum additives, but you think you do because you know about other things. This is irrational. Why don't you do some research into Schaeffer and their molybdenum additive before you pretend you are informed on the topic? |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 4:32:49 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You don't know anything about emulsified molybdenum additives, but you think you do because you know about other things. This is irrational. Why don't you do some research into Schaeffer and their molybdenum additive before you pretend you are informed on the topic? Good point!  What is it that you do for a living? What is your background (education)? |
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