Officer Hits Shoplifter in the Head With His Gun - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Officer Hits Shoplifter in the Head With His Gun (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 9/30/2011 8:06:48 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Are some of us actually getting butthurt over a thief taking a beating?

Thieves > cops to some here.

Suppose you're standing there in a store and the nearsighted old shopkeeper decides that you shoplifted a candy bar.

Then the local townie cop shows up and gives you a good old fashioned pistol whipping for bein' such a durned thief and all.

You OK with that senario?

Except that's not what happened.

Did you even consider the possibility that the thief was resisting a lawful arrest and the policeman used the only tool at his current disposal to end the fight?

Posted: 9/30/2011 8:08:42 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't really care. Police used to do this constantly when I was a kid and surprise! Fewer thieves. Now it's so rare it makes the news and we are up to our armpits in jackasses stealing anything that isn't set in concrete.

Spare the me slippery slope bullshit, it didn't happen before, it won't happen now.

There's the whole thing, nicely wrapped and tied with a bow.

theory, reality, meh, what's the difference? it sounds good anyway.

Back when I was in high school, the teachers were allowed to use "corporal punishment". Basically, we got paddled and the occassional hair pulling by these fucking teachers. It was a rural community of well behaved white kids.

The only result it had was that we hated the teachers to the degree that i think you would find surprising. We often used to talk very seriously about how we would beat the teachers bloody once we graduated. I mean there was serious minded, humorless planning that was the result of poisonous hatred.

The reality is that humiliation is the enemy of happiness.

Posted: 9/30/2011 8:10:05 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Are some of us actually getting butthurt over a thief taking a beating?

I have no sympathy for the dirt bag or his mom.

But I have sympathy for our system whenever police, whose job is to apprehend and investigate, decide to veer into the realm of administration of punishment before that whole trial and conviction thing.

Posted: 9/30/2011 8:11:11 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Are some of us actually getting butthurt over a thief taking a beating?

Thieves > cops to some here.

Suppose you're standing there in a store and the nearsighted old shopkeeper decides that you shoplifted a candy bar.

Then the local townie cop shows up and gives you a good old fashioned pistol whipping for bein' such a durned thief and all.

You OK with that senario?

Except that's not what happened.

Did you even consider the possibility that the thief was resisting a lawful arrest and the policeman used the only tool at his current disposal to end the fight?

that's not the idea being presented in this thread.

the topic of this thread is the police handing out beatings as punishment, at their discretion, "just like the good old days".

Posted: 9/30/2011 8:12:07 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Are some of us actually getting butthurt over a thief taking a beating?

I have no sympathy for the dirt bag or his mom.

But I have sympathy for our system whenever police, whose job is to apprehend and investigate, decide to veer into the realm of administration of punishment before that whole trial and conviction thing.

then take your beating like a mutt

Posted: 9/30/2011 8:13:25 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Are some of us actually getting butthurt over a thief taking a beating?

Thieves > cops to some here.

Suppose you're standing there in a store and the nearsighted old shopkeeper decides that you shoplifted a candy bar.

Then the local townie cop shows up and gives you a good old fashioned pistol whipping for bein' such a durned thief and all.

You OK with that senario?

Except that's not what happened.

Did you even consider the possibility that the thief was resisting a lawful arrest and the policeman used the only tool at his current disposal to end the fight?

The report of the incident by a fellow officer suggests strongly that the officer went far beyond the level of force necessary to end the fight. It seems to me that it takes quite a shocking departure from protocol for one of an officer's fellows to overcome the benefit of the doubt they might ordinarily give each other out of professional courtesy and understanding of the rigors of the job.

Posted: 9/30/2011 8:14:26 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Are some of us actually getting butthurt over a thief taking a beating?

Thieves > cops to some here.

Suppose you're standing there in a store and the nearsighted old shopkeeper decides that you shoplifted a candy bar.

Then the local townie cop shows up and gives you a good old fashioned pistol whipping for bein' such a durned thief and all.

You OK with that senario?

Except that's not what happened.

Did you even consider the possibility that the thief was resisting a lawful arrest and the policeman used the only tool at his current disposal to end the fight?

that's not the idea being presented in this thread.

Sure it is.

the topic of this thread is the police handing out beatings at their discretion, "just like the good old days".

No it's not. You are the only one talking about "police handing out beatings at their discretion".

The rest of us consider the possibility that the thief was resisting and had to be forced to comply.

Posted: 9/30/2011 8:16:22 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
That's what Kel-Lites and Blackjacks are for.

Kel-lites?

You showed your age with that one.

Those things solved more problems than tasers ever will.

Still have my first one, 5 D cell, I purchased new in 1983. Gave out many a Wood Shampoo and Kel Lite conditioner back in the day.

Posted: 9/30/2011 8:16:45 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Like the hickory shampoo, the Slapper and Sap gloves; the pistol whip is another great American law enforcement tool that is disappearing because pussys have taken over the country.

Yeah I don't think the pussies are the problem. It's hard to give a beat down with a glock. Now a SW or a Colt Trooper turned to use the bottom of the frame is a good choice. I know an old NJSP trooper that loved the lanyard hole on the P7. His eyed glazed with nostalgia as he remembered popping suspects upside the head with the butt.

[hankhill]
Your modern light polymers are the problem.
[/hankhill]

ETA clarity

Posted: 9/30/2011 8:19:20 AM EDT

[#10]

I ain't a cop...hell....I don't even like a lot of cops....but I know it wouldn't take much for me to just open up a can of whoopass on a bunch of these ill-mannered, ignorant, self-centered, victim-mentality. retard motherfuckers that wander amongst us these days masquerading as human beings...let alone one who's a fucking thief.

Posted: 9/30/2011 8:20:18 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Are some of us actually getting butthurt over a thief taking a beating?

Thieves > cops to some here.

Suppose you're standing there in a store and the nearsighted old shopkeeper decides that you shoplifted a candy bar.

Then the local townie cop shows up and gives you a good old fashioned pistol whipping for bein' such a durned thief and all.

You OK with that senario?

Except that's not what happened.

Did you even consider the possibility that the thief was resisting a lawful arrest and the policeman used the only tool at his current disposal to end the fight?

that's not the idea being presented in this thread.

Sure it is.

the topic of this thread is the police handing out beatings at their discretion, "just like the good old days".

No it's not. You are the only one talking about "police handing out beatings at their discretion".

The rest of us consider the possibility that the thief was resisting and had to be forced to comply.

I think it's about 50% "police beatdowns make the world a nice place"

like so:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Are some of us actually getting butthurt over a thief taking a beating?

I have no sympathy for the dirt bag or his mom.

But I have sympathy for our system whenever police, whose job is to apprehend and investigate, decide to veer into the realm of administration of punishment before that whole trial and conviction thing.

right out of the mouth of Joe Stalin

Posted: 9/30/2011 8:23:17 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Are some of us actually getting butthurt over a thief taking a beating?

Thieves > cops to some here.

Suppose you're standing there in a store and the nearsighted old shopkeeper decides that you shoplifted a candy bar.

Then the local townie cop shows up and gives you a good old fashioned pistol whipping for bein' such a durned thief and all.

You OK with that senario?

Except that's not what happened.

Did you even consider the possibility that the thief was resisting a lawful arrest and the policeman used the only tool at his current disposal to end the fight?

that's not the idea being presented in this thread.

Sure it is.

the topic of this thread is the police handing out beatings at their discretion, "just like the good old days".

No it's not. You are the only one talking about "police handing out beatings at their discretion".

The rest of us consider the possibility that the thief was resisting and had to be forced to comply.

I think it's about 50% "police beatdowns make the world a nice place"

like so:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Are some of us actually getting butthurt over a thief taking a beating?

I have no sympathy for the dirt bag or his mom.

But I have sympathy for our system whenever police, whose job is to apprehend and investigate, decide to veer into the realm of administration of punishment before that whole trial and conviction thing.

right out of the mouth of Joe Stalin

Did you just associate my opinion with Joe Stalin? Read what I wrote again. Slowly.

Posted: 9/30/2011 8:25:08 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

My issue isn't that he smacked the guy around a bit, it doesn't sound like he beat the guy senseless or did any serious harm. My problem is WHY THE HELL DID HE DRAW HIS FIREARM in the first place? Cops seem WAY too gun happy these days. What immediate lethal threat was involved that he needed to have a firearm in his hand? The minute you draw a gun the whole situation becomes a much more dangerous situation even if all you factor in is accidents. There are many other options he could have used if he felt a need to physically subdue the guy, starting with the fact that he's probably decently trained in H2H and moving on to a baton or taser if he really felt like the guy was a problem.

Hell, just for giggles I'd like to see a major department setup something where the minute the officer puts his hand on his pistol his microphone starts recording and a minicam on the pistol starts recording as well (even if still in the holster, it will just verify that it's still there if he's one of those guys that rests his hand there). I think it would be enlightening to see just how casual things have gotten when it comes to drawing a firearm and how often it is done correctly and how often it is done in situations where it is not appropriate according to department policy.

Some company could set this up, offer it for one week rotations through each precinct... then move on to another city. That way it's not a huge investment for a department, just a training/audit tool. They key would be to establish how much that system influences an officer so you know how to adjust the data for the fact that he or she knows they're being monitored after the fact. I think, even with that influencing their use, it would be very valuable, if nothing else it would show them how often they THOUGHT about doing something they didn't really need to do.

Sounds a lot like the traffic camera thing.

Posted: 9/30/2011 8:27:42 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I don't really care. Police used to do this constantly when I was a kid and surprise! Fewer thieves. Now it's so rare it makes the news and we are up to our armpits in jackasses stealing anything that isn't set in concrete.

Spare the me slippery slope bullshit, it didn't happen before, it won't happen now.

There's the whole thing, nicely wrapped and tied with a bow.

theory, reality, meh, what's the difference? it sounds good anyway.
Back when I was in high school, the teachers were allowed to use "corporal punishment". Basically, we got paddled and the occassional hair pulling by these fucking teachers. It was a rural community of well behaved white kids.

The only result it had was that we hated the teachers to the degree that i think you would find surprising. We often used to talk very seriously about how we would beat the teachers bloody once we graduated. I mean there was serious minded, humorless planning that was the result of poisonous hatred.

The reality is that humiliation is the enemy of happiness.

Yeah, I remember a lot of vengeful talk, too, but all we ever actually DID was to TP their yards. Sometimes, it might go as far as egging their house/car.

Posted: 9/30/2011 8:29:18 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Did you even consider the possibility that the thief was resisting a lawful arrest and the policeman used the only tool at his current disposal to end the fight?

that's what I got out of it

and I am not a TBL by any stretch of the imagination

so no fucks were given today

Posted: 9/30/2011 8:34:17 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
I don't really care. Police used to do this constantly when I was a kid and surprise! Fewer thieves. Now it's so rare it makes the news and we are up to our armpits in jackasses stealing anything that isn't set in concrete.

Spare the me slippery slope bullshit, it didn't happen before, it won't happen now.

My dad used to tell a story of a man who stole chickens in town. One day the man got caught steeling a chicken and they put him in the city jail. At supper the jailer would go across the street to the diner to get food for the prisoner and it happened that the special was fried chicken. The prisoner made a comment about how jail was pretty good cause the chicken came plucked, gutted and cooked. The officer told him when he got out not to come back to his jail.

Later the man was caught steeling chickens again, seems he slipped and fell in the jail on that second trip and hit his head on the bars, got messed up bad in that fall, he never stole any more chickens after that.

Posted: 9/30/2011 8:41:25 AM EDT

[#17]

dupereeno

Posted: 9/30/2011 8:42:12 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't really care. Police used to do this constantly when I was a kid and surprise! Fewer thieves. Now it's so rare it makes the news and we are up to our armpits in jackasses stealing anything that isn't set in concrete.

Spare the me slippery slope bullshit, it didn't happen before, it won't happen now.

My dad used to tell a story of a man who stole chickens in town. One day the man got caught steeling a chicken and they put him in the city jail. At supper the jailer would go across the street to the diner to get food for the prisoner and it happened that the special was fried chicken. The prisoner made a comment about how jail was pretty good cause the chicken came plucked, gutted and cooked. The officer told him when he got out not to come back to his jail.

Later the man was caught steeling chickens again, seems he slipped and fell in the jail on that second trip and hit his head on the bars, got messed up bad in that fall, he never stole any more chickens after that.

Ever see the movie "The French Connection"?

In real life, every single gram of the heroin was stolen from the police lockup and sold on the street. Millions of $$ of herion being sold on the street and the theft was never solved.... surprise!

These same NYPD police were allowed until 1963 to beat confessions out of suspects.

Those cops sure know how to solve those tricky problems with involving all that messy due process stuff.

wink wink

Posted: 9/30/2011 8:50:25 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Are some of us actually getting butthurt over a thief taking a beating?

Thieves > cops to some here.

Suppose you're standing there in a store and the nearsighted old shopkeeper decides that you shoplifted a candy bar.

Then the local townie cop shows up and gives you a good old fashioned pistol whipping for bein' such a durned thief and all.

You OK with that senario?

You guys have this romantic notion of some peaceful, beautiful past where everybody in Mayberry saluted the flag and ate Mom's apple pie.

It's not really all that different from the liberals on democraticunderground with their romantic notion of the government controlling everything for the common good.

Apparently, in the good old days, Barney Fife used to pistol whip the citizenry at his discretion and it all worked out swell.

Basically, the idea that arfcom and democraticunderground don't get is the fact that it's a zero-sum game. The government gains power, you lose power. End of story.

Not at all. I have a clear-eyed, well-informed notion of a past in which people went out of their way to avoid the appearance of impropriety.

Posted: 9/30/2011 8:50:45 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Are some of us actually getting butthurt over a thief taking a beating?

Thieves > cops to some here.

Suppose you're standing there in a store and the nearsighted old shopkeeper decides that you shoplifted a candy bar.

Then the local townie cop shows up and gives you a good old fashioned pistol whipping for bein' such a durned thief and all.

You OK with that senario?

Except that's not what happened.

Did you even consider the possibility that the thief was resisting a lawful arrest and the policeman used the only tool at his current disposal to end the fight?

that's not the idea being presented in this thread.

Sure it is.

the topic of this thread is the police handing out beatings at their discretion, "just like the good old days".

No it's not. You are the only one talking about "police handing out beatings at their discretion".

The rest of us consider the possibility that the thief was resisting and had to be forced to comply.

I think it's about 50% "police beatdowns make the world a nice place"

like so:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Are some of us actually getting butthurt over a thief taking a beating?

I have no sympathy for the dirt bag or his mom.

But I have sympathy for our system whenever police, whose job is to apprehend and investigate, decide to veer into the realm of administration of punishment before that whole trial and conviction thing.

right out of the mouth of Joe Stalin

Did you just associate my opinion with Joe Stalin? Read what I wrote again. Slowly.

apparently, you are sympathetic when cops decide to veer into the realm of administration of punishment before that whole trial and conviction thing

seems like plain english to me

Joe Stalin had the exact same game plan.

my plan would be to have the citizen properly punished after a trial by his peers, not leave it up to the momentary discretion of some random policeman

I'm nutty I tells ya. Nutty.

Posted: 9/30/2011 8:54:55 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Are some of us actually getting butthurt over a thief taking a beating?

I have no sympathy for the dirt bag or his mom.

But I have sympathy for our system whenever police, whose job is to apprehend and investigate, decide to veer into the realm of administration of punishment before that whole trial and conviction thing.

You are overlooking the fact that there are benefits as well as costs to all concerned in "street justice." Being arrested and prosecuted for an offense involves more time and expense for all concerned, and for the accused creates a permanent and vexatious record (even in the case of an acquittal, dismissal or nol pros) that would not exist if he received only a percussive admonition.

Posted: 9/30/2011 9:09:32 AM EDT

[#22]

Nothing like a little "knock to the noggen" to get their attention. He should have done it twice to the thief.

Posted: 9/30/2011 9:11:17 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Are some of us actually getting butthurt over a thief taking a beating?

I have no sympathy for the dirt bag or his mom.

But I have sympathy for our system whenever police, whose job is to apprehend and investigate, decide to veer into the realm of administration of punishment before that whole trial and conviction thing.

You are overlooking the fact that there are benefits as well as costs to all concerned in "street justice." Being arrested and prosecuted for an offense involves more time and expense for all concerned, and for the accused creates a permanent and vexatious record (even in the case of an acquittal, dismissal or nol pros) that would not exist if he received only a percussive admonition.

You guys would make the worst chess players on earth.

You really cannot percieve the moral and practical problem with "street justice"?

Just like on democraticunderground where the nice people want to give the government a chance to "help everyone".

This is just dumb beer talk, vexatious records and all.

Posted: 9/30/2011 9:13:16 AM EDT

[#24]

It seems you are confused.

Not being able to recognize your point and seeing that your point is worthless whining are two completely different things.

Posted: 9/30/2011 9:44:58 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Fox59 learned that a fellow officer reported Gilreath after the alleged incident.

But Arfcom has assured me that the Thin Blue Line never lets this happen.

You think people here hate dirty cops? As you probably know, you haven't seen hate till you've talked to ordinary cops about dirty cops.

Posted: 9/30/2011 10:27:09 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Hurrrrrrrrr hurrrrrrrrrr derp derp hurrrrrrrrrrrrr hurrrrrr

Posted: 9/30/2011 10:42:13 AM EDT

[#27]

From the mother aka "get-away driver"

"He just seemed to have the attitude that no matter what, we were pieces of dirt and you know, we were at his mercy."

What should have happened:
Officer: "Actually I was just getting your dirt bag son's attention, we call it a "distraction strike". "Here, place these handcuffs on your wrists too or I will demonstrate another one."

Posted: 9/30/2011 10:45:09 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
From the mother aka "get-away driver"

"He just seemed to have the attitude that no matter what, we were pieces of dirt and you know, we were at his mercy."

What should have happened:
Officer: "Actually I was just getting your dirt bag son's attention, we call it a "distraction strike". "Here, place these handcuffs on your wrists too or I will demonstrate another one."

The first part of the attitude attributed to the officer seems to have been correct.

Posted: 9/30/2011 11:30:27 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Are some of us actually getting butthurt over a thief taking a beating?

Thieves > cops to some here.

Suppose you're standing there in a store and the nearsighted old shopkeeper decides that you shoplifted a candy bar.

Then the local townie cop shows up and gives you a good old fashioned pistol whipping for bein' such a durned thief and all.

You OK with that senario?

Except that's not what happened.

Did you even consider the possibility that the thief was resisting a lawful arrest and the policeman used the only tool at his current disposal to end the fight?

Sure I considerd it right up until I read one of his fellow cops reported it,
Which is the bad cop the one pistol shipping or the one who reported a fellow LEO?

Which does the arfcops support, the pistol whipper or the rat?

Posted: 9/30/2011 6:41:09 PM EDT

[#30]

The fact that a fellow officer reported the arresting officer, claiming excessive force, does not make a case to find that the arresting officer did in fact use excessive force. It's more or less one man's opinion. Appropriate level of force is mostly a subjective thing. It's in the eye of the beholder. Most departments prohibit "pistol whipping" in their firearms/use of deadly force policies. However, they will permit the use of alternate weapons, while leaving "alternate weapons" undefined.
If an officer is fighting with a suspect, he is permitted to use whatever weapons are at his disposal to apply an approrpiate level of force to overcome resistance. Be it a flashlight, portable radio, club, rock, etc. In such a circumstance, it is not unreasonable to consider a firearm as an alternative to a baton. Whether it is a pistol whip with a handgun or a butt stroke with a shotgun, it can easily be a justified use of force.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Officer Hits Shoplifter in the Head With His Gun (Page 2 of 2)

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