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Posted: 12/25/2004 6:11:57 AM EDT
[#1]
In order from best to worst: 1. Galil - best all around 2. BAR-10 (Bushmaster .308) - reliable, cheap mags, accurate, excellent ergonomics 3. HK-91 - reliable, cheap mags, accurate, heavy, some bad ergonomics, no lock back on empty mag 4. M1A - reliable, not very accurate, not best platform to mount optics and still have a good cheek weld 5. FAL - some reliability issues if using different ammo (without adjusting gas system), shot stringing as barrel heats up, heavy, optics mounting not optimal 6. AR-10 - major reliability issues As always, just my opinion, YMMV, etc. |
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Posted: 12/25/2004 6:12:08 AM EDT
[#2]
They use what they got. They've also got SR25s. I guess since that's an AR10, I'd have to with the AR10. Especially if you throw optics in the mix. Wasn't there a rumor floating around at the beginning of the war in A-stan that there were some FALs floating around one unit, or another? ETA, it looks like QS was faster than me, but I'm not the only one who heard it. |
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Posted: 12/25/2004 6:13:08 AM EDT
[#3]
Yes, and I confirmed it to my satisfaction last week. See my above post. |
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Posted: 12/25/2004 6:15:14 AM EDT
[#4]
Stupid question: When you say FAL, do you say "eff-ay-ell" or "Fowl"... I usually find my self thinking "fowl" (never have a reason to say it in conversiation) but I'm pretty sure thats wrong.
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Posted: 12/25/2004 6:20:43 AM EDT
[#5]
FAL
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Posted: 12/25/2004 6:22:41 AM EDT
[#6]
Where the hell do you get fowl? I either say "eff-ay-ell" or "f-al"(one word) |
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Posted: 12/25/2004 6:26:59 AM EDT
[#7]
M14/M1A.
Period. |
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Posted: 12/25/2004 6:32:33 AM EDT
[#8]
ya'll got one of em thar fowls?? 
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Posted: 12/25/2004 6:35:42 AM EDT
[#9]
Another vote for the M1A. Great balance, great sites, low recoil, and I like the fact that you don't have to tune the gas system for various ammo.
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Posted: 12/25/2004 6:45:39 AM EDT
[#10]
M14/M1a
Simply the best sights I've ever some across. |
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Posted: 12/25/2004 7:55:40 AM EDT
[#11]
Beretta BM-59:
- mild recoil due to tri-compensator - derived from M1 Garand - select-fire - comes standard with tripod/gernade-launcher/winter trigger 
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Posted: 12/25/2004 7:58:45 AM EDT
[#12]
The HK91, the FAL, and the M1A, in that order |
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Posted: 12/25/2004 7:59:20 AM EDT
[#13]
AR-10
Accuracy & advantages of the AR-15 system in .308! More versitile & accurate than the G3 or FAL Better ergonomics than the M1A (just because grandaddy's 30-30 didn't have a pistol grip doesn't make it 'better' to have a gooseneck stock), and no need for stock bedding or similar 'extra' maintanance.... The only 'downside' is that mags are a tad bit more expensive.... And just to think... If only ArmaLite had gotten the AR-10 ready a little faster, there might not have BEEN a M14.... |
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Posted: 12/25/2004 8:00:56 AM EDT
[#14]
SR25 = AR10 |
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Posted: 12/25/2004 8:11:15 AM EDT
[#15]
I agree with everything but the ergonomics: I just can't scrunch down low enough to draw a comfortable bead through the rear peep sight of my DSL STG58! Of course, with the 12 power scope I have mounted to it I don't really have to, but I still don't like the factory rear sight. I understand the Austrian Army stipulated that it rise no higher than 3 mm from the top of the rifle to give the shooter a lower profile, but, damnit... I just can't scrunch down that low! Still like the gun; it's a great shooter! Panzer "Fat Cheeks" Sergeant 
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Posted: 12/25/2004 8:13:17 AM EDT
[#16]
Yes, we have heard all your bullshit based upon pure conjecture and bullshit on other boards about the BAR-10 A2 ( a name they can't use anymore), it's unlined barrel, it's magical FAL mags that no one else has been able to get work in an AR design, it's price tag equal to a 10T model, a price tag that is $400 more than an A2 ArmaLite with chrome lined barrel and lifetime warranty and is about $600 more than an Eagle Arms A2 with the unlined barrel and 1 year warranty (which is exactly the same as the Bushmaster .308. I am not saying the Bushy is a bad rifle, just pointing out the obvious, especially on price, warranty, and barrel. As for your "major reliability issues", that seems to be you and a very few others. I have gotten to the point that I believe that your "experience" with an AR10 were all fabricated in your mind (if you ever even had one) after reading your endless bullshit and your enthusiasm for another brand even before you got it. I, and many others who have responded to your bullshit in the past, don't seem to have had the same experience with our AR10s. I have 4 (2 A2s, 1 AR with SS barrel, and a 10T carbine) and have had ZERO problems with them. As for ergonomics, you are the only one who favors the ergonomics of the Bushy, which is quite different from an AR15, over the ergonomics of the AR10, which is exactly the same as an AR15 with the exception of no FA. |
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Posted: 12/25/2004 8:23:46 AM EDT
[#17]
FAL
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Posted: 12/25/2004 9:33:52 AM EDT
[#18]
FAL
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Posted: 12/25/2004 9:56:35 AM EDT
[#19]
hk91
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Posted: 12/25/2004 9:56:56 AM EDT
[#20]
M1A ( M14 )
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Posted: 12/25/2004 10:00:05 AM EDT
[#21]
Can't vote, because i've never shot all of the choices. or owned all of them.
In fact, the only ones i have are the ar10s and one just bought (but unshot by me) M1A |
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Posted: 12/25/2004 10:05:29 AM EDT
[#22]
FAL
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Posted: 12/25/2004 10:10:55 AM EDT
[#23]
... I have, or recently have had, all flavors, but I'm growing increasingly fond of my AR10 as time goes by.
... Funny thing, I liked my Galil ARM too, and I see where it ties for last place with the AR10 as of this post |
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Posted: 12/25/2004 10:16:51 AM EDT
[#24]
SEALs and izzys are going with the SR-25. If I was going to go out into a firefight and had to grab one, it would be an AR-10 variant.
I own a STG-58C. Nice gun. I don't own an AR-10 but have obviously spent years with its little brother. The ergonomics, accuracy, weight and reliability of the AR system sell me. I go AR-10. |
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Posted: 12/25/2004 10:18:24 AM EDT
[#25]
All I've had in a semi .308 is my Saiga .308. It's a beast! Fun to shoot, accurate enough for plinking. Proven quick detach scope mount (ala AK).
However, I guess my pick would be split 50/50 this way... Battle Rifle would be a FAL. Simple more of them produced and fielded that all of the others! (Maybe more that all the others total? Hell if I know!) Precision rifle? I'd go with a NM M1A with all the bells and whistles. Adam_White brought his sniper M1A to the Hun Farm last time, IIRC it was a SA Israeli sniper package. Very, very nice! |
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Posted: 12/25/2004 10:30:16 AM EDT
[#26]
OEM stock, what he said. However, it is not hard to tweak the FAL into first place as a battle rifle. |
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Posted: 12/25/2004 11:03:48 AM EDT
[#27]
CETME is a HK, L1A1 is a FAL. |
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Posted: 12/25/2004 11:14:44 AM EDT
[#28]
FAL
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Posted: 12/25/2004 11:32:30 AM EDT
[#29]
My vote is for the FAL.
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Posted: 12/25/2004 11:55:33 AM EDT
[#30]
Do you actually have extensive knowledge of all these rifles? I am always a doubter when it comes to people who profess extensive knowledge of various rifles. Shooting a rented rifle, or borrowing a buddies firearm won't give you the needed expertise to provide an informed opinion. Rating a rifle on reliability (and other factors) can take thousands of rounds and many years of ownership. I have never owned a Galil, an AR10, or an HK91--so I can't comment on these weapons. I do OWN the M1A, and the FAL. The M1A is very accurate, although I have to agree with you about the cheek weld (when using a scope--when using irons the cheek weld is better). I have had reliability probems related to the gas piston/plug but those were remedied. I have read (here on ARFCOM) that M14 users in Iraq had serious reliability problems. The FAL I have has great optics mounting, is comfortable, is not heavy (in fact it is light, kind of like a heavier AR) and I haven't owned it long enough to comment on reliability. |
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Posted: 12/25/2004 12:19:49 PM EDT
[#31]
I have not shot the AR-10, so no comment on it. The Galil SAR is a better choice in this comparison than the ARM, so it’s what I’ll discuss. The Galil SAR is the best out of the box for CQB by a huge margin. It is light, balances great, has an easy to use thumb safety (it's quiet too), and a full size pistol grip. The ergonomics are unsurpassed (except perhaps by the AR-10). Optics go on and off with ease. I'd take this one first for all action from in-my-face to 300 yards. The HK has a too short stock, a too short pistol grip, and an awkward safety. It is too slippery to hold on too if you are sweating. The FAL is way too heavy, the pistol grip is at a weird angle, and the safety is a little harder to manipulate. The trigger is worse for me than the HK. The balance is not good and it feels heavy and slow on target. The M1A has the safety in the most dumb ass place ever thought of in the history of rifles. It’s slower to get into action and takes two hands to operate. It has great sights and a great trigger and is the best at the target range. This is probably the best choice for targets over 300 yards. Without Mods: 1 – Galil 2 – FAL 3 – M1A 4 – HK With Mods: 1 – Galil 2 – HK (longer stock, Navy pistol grip) 3 – FAL 4 – M1A |
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Posted: 12/25/2004 12:36:26 PM EDT
[#32]
FAL FAL FAL
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Posted: 12/25/2004 12:38:28 PM EDT
[#33]
1999 GUN TEST PICKED M1A over FAl - HK 91 Distant Third-
link: http://www.entreprise.com/News/Articles/guntestapril_99.htm |
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Posted: 12/25/2004 12:55:47 PM EDT
[#34]
I like my M1A best, but my cheap FAL is a good shooter.
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Posted: 12/25/2004 1:05:56 PM EDT
[#35]
FAL for me, for parts availability, price of magazines, ease of cleaning/repair, and configurations.
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Posted: 12/25/2004 1:19:13 PM EDT
[#36]
Huh...  ?I have always used my trigger finger to hit the safety forward and then went back to the trigger in order to fire. When I was ready to put the safety back on then I just used my trigger finger to put the saftey back on. I did this with out moving the rifle in an akward position and I sure did not use two hands.I will admit that I have large hands and maybe there are some who can't put the safety back on the way that I do but I would think that most people would be able to hit the safety forward with thier trigger finger. |
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Posted: 12/25/2004 1:20:22 PM EDT
[#37]
HK91, hands down. Shame on all of you that voted for something else...shame!
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Posted: 12/25/2004 1:24:40 PM EDT
[#38]
That convinces me that the correct order must be HK91, followed by the FAL, then the M1A. Gun Test.  Their complaintes were as follows: However, the collapsible stock that we found so useful and also very light was quite short. The gun hit us in the face at every shot. The back of the HK-91 receiver is a bluff-shaped thing that would clunk us just below the eye unless we were very careful. We tried an aftermarket long-pull stock (which might have been Australian, it resembled a FAL stock) on the HK-91 and it made shooting this rifle very comfortable. Unfortunately, with the comfortable stock installed, the weight went up to around 13 pounds fully loaded, without scope, and that's ridiculous. A bipod made it still heavier. The only way we could tolerate the weight of the well-made HK91 was with the light, but short, collapsible stock and that setup hit us in the face. Exit the HK-91 and all its variants. What a bunch of retards.  And looking at how they are shooting them I can't imagine why they are getting smacked...  
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Posted: 12/25/2004 1:28:54 PM EDT
[#39]
That's a sweeping comment, Dave. I've got an AR-10 and I've handled an SR-25. Different beasts. I'm not fond of the Armalite magazine system at all. |
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Posted: 12/25/2004 1:29:44 PM EDT
[#40]
I prefer the M14.
Does that make it the best? No. But it works for me. |
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Posted: 12/25/2004 1:36:45 PM EDT
[#41]
Huh? |
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Posted: 12/25/2004 1:52:35 PM EDT
[#42]
For easy of cleaning, simplicity, ergomomics, Reliability and low recoil, I chose the FN-FAL/ L1A1.
:D Aif |
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Posted: 12/25/2004 2:14:48 PM EDT
[#43]
Pick up any of those rifles, pick out a spot on the wall, close your eyes, shoulder it to sight picture (keeping eyes closed), open your eyes, and see where you're aiming in relation to the spot on the wall. NAtural feel is best, and natural feel is different for each person. Eg, with a natural hold on a FAL, my tendency puts the front sight 1.5 inched lower than the rear sight plane., With an M1A, I'm on target. For you, or anyone else that is not me, results may be reversed, or you may find that all or none of these rifles fits you.
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Posted: 12/25/2004 2:19:08 PM EDT
[#44]
M1A & FAL.
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Posted: 12/25/2004 2:36:45 PM EDT
[#45]
#1) FAL: in-expensive to buy/build/maintain, magazines are cheap!, very "grind friendly" (builders know what I'm talking about)m and 90 countries have adopted the FAL and its variants, they can't all be wrong. The gas system isn't troublesome or complicated or requiring adjustment/tuning everytime one changes ammo, hell the best part is when more power is needed because of dirt/fouling, just close off the regulator knob a click or two and keep rocking.
#2) M1A: Very accurate or at least has the potential for accuracy, its also an expensive rifle to purchase/maintain/repair, not to mention that replacemnet parts are at a premium. As for the HK91, well the closest I've come to owning one was a CETME, and while it worked it just wasn't my kind of rifle. (pretty funny with the quip on Century's "one-shot, semi-auto"). AR-10, never owned one, but find them to be everything the AR-15 is, but in a much better caliber As for the AK variants...well what can you say about rifles pounded out on rocks in third world countries. |
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Posted: 12/25/2004 3:22:11 PM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 12/25/2004 5:11:26 PM EDT
[#47]
My hand hangs off the bottom of the short HK pistol grip and it is slippery when wet, even worse when my hands and face are covered with sweat. The Galil pistol grip is perfection. The stock HK trigger has a heavy pull, but when it releases, it is with precision like it just stopped on a microbe. The FAL is like pulling on a rusty spring that keeps changing its tension throughout its travel. I'm sure there are better ones, but the same goes for HK. The M1A rifle takes two hands to shoot, not operate the safety. Just imagine having to shoot it with one arm out of commission while on the move. It's not as easy as any of the others. Add winter gloves to the mix and the so called safety is just better off ignored until Spring. |
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Posted: 12/25/2004 5:46:51 PM EDT
[#48]
I went through basic training with an M-14. Accurate, never failed, and it was accurate. I own an M1A and an FAL. I voted FAL due to the decrease in quality from Springfield. When I got my M1a several years ago, it was all GI expept for the receiver, barrel (NM) and stock. Now I hear nasty things about the new M1A's. Too bad.
The FAL is less expensive if you kit the thing together, it's MBR accurate, and it's flat out reliable. Trust me, reliable comes first unless you just shoot off a bench. My .02 and that's all it's worth. Groucho |
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Posted: 12/25/2004 6:48:17 PM EDT
[#49]
Just got the JLD PTR 91. I only have 40 rounds through it, but it seems superb. I have had the M1A, and it was perfectly reliable, although since it was the base model, it didn't seem as accurate.
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Posted: 12/25/2004 6:49:09 PM EDT
[#50]
FAL!
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