Jesus scorned the religious and had compassion on the sinners. I don't know about any of you or your beliefs but I definitely fit in the sinner catagory.

Gosh, sorry to hear you God is dead.  I'm really sorry for you all.  

Somehow I have a hard time believing you've read several science books when you can't even SPELL "evolution" correctly, much less "explanation."



Nobody cares.  You have a right to be as willfully ignorant as you want.



Because you don't live on an island by yourself. You have to live among other people and be dependant on them to treat you fairly.  Humans are social animals and all social animals have instinctive rules on how to live with each other.  They only break them when they think they can get away with it, just like humans.



Because if you don't follow them, no one will want to do business with you or be your friend and you will have a miserable life.  And if you break some of the more serious rules, you will wind up in prison or dead.
Don't you have any HARD questions?

No. I have met several.

Horsepuckey.  Most nonbelievers are far more skeptical than believers...I find believers to be willing to believe in all sorts of ridiculous nonsense, such as UFO abductions, black helicopters, lost continents, crystal power, etc...

"My God" isn't dead because I don't have a God to be dead or alive.
And you can stick your pity where the sun don't shine.

Wow, you managed to be both religiously AND racially biased in one (run-on, granted) sentence.  That's amazing.
Some people would have to TRY to be that much of a moron, but it seems to come naturally for you. Congratulations.

Or maybe its because, seeing that he is SO superior, Rikwriter is The One True God ?

Naw, I am only superior when compared to a congenital moron such as yourself.  When compared to normal, intelligent folks I am only average.

That's where morality comes in. The difference I see between myself, an atheist, and the average Christian is this morality. The Christian says that if there were no god he would have no problem cheating, murdering, and stealing. I on the other hand believe that those things are wrong whether I get caught or not, and therefore I would not do them. If you only do the right thing when someone is looking then you are not doing it because it is the right thing to do.

Could someone who believes that the universe could not have popped up out of nowhere and an almighty god could have please explain this to me. I tend to believe that the simplest thing is true and it seems it would be simpler to have a bunch of meaningless rock expand into a nothingness than a god pop up out of nothing.

Could the moderators please remove redneck whitesox PBR's racial comment. If we are going to make a transition to a race free discussion area this would be a good place to start.

If you guys can continue to debate this and exchange different viewpoints with out starting the petty name calling, we'll leave it open. Your call.

[url]http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/extra/bible-contradictions.html[/url]

I'll not say I told You so, just to make the check payable to the owner of this fine site.

Tall Shadow

Well, the thought of my possible death/dismemberment in Iraq (we heard the same reports of "tens of thousands of Coalition casualties" as you) didn't make me seek solace in a god whom I don't think exists. Maybe it's just not in my character to run to someone in times of trouble but ignore them when things are going well.

Brought up Roman Catholic but hung with the Devil so I don't take any chances, I wear a "Scapular". For you heathens it's like a holy metal but made out of cloth and states "Whoever dies wearing this scapular shall not suffer eternal fire." Sort of a like a free Get Out Hell Card but I always worry that after wearing it all these years I'am gonna get hit by a truck and some doctor in the emergency room trying to save me will rip it off just before I kick off,just my f####ing luck!

Pure random chance. There are millions upon millions of galaxies, and each of those contains millions or billions of stars. Each one of those stars is/was a possible sun at some time in the past 10 billion years (I'm allowing the first 10 billion years as a "formative stage" for the universe, in which stars hadn't gathered their accretion disks yet, or protoplanets hadn't started to form.) The planets forming at the right distance from their sun is simple physics - a planet of a certain mass and density HAS to form in a certain range of distances from its star, due to gravity.



All higher primates that live in extended family or tribal groups have societal rules that protect the group as a whole. Many of these are the basis for our own laws. A "lesser" male chimp will hide his erection if the Alpha male comes around after the lesser male has mated with the alpha female. Sounds very similar to our anti-adultery laws. Chimps have also been shown to feel guilt, such as after attacking and harming a juvenile. Where do THEY get these taboos from? It's simply a matter of what's best for the group as a whole.



I could ask the same about your belief in god or religion. How do you KNOW you're right?

When this world can learn to live together and respect everyone's personal beliefs then and only then will we be able to live together as a nation of man.
just my 0.02 Ron

You have to live among other people and be dependant on them to treat you fairly.

View Quote

Don't you have any HARD questions?

View Quote

Sure, you pompous ass.  Where did you learn to spell "dependent"?  You owe somebody an apology.

If you are really interested in the answers to your questions/comments go here

http://members.aol.com/ckbloomfld/index.html

Well Tall Shadow,I read the link to the page you sent and none of the arguements hold much water. They all can be reckoned in their context. But even were I to explain all these so called "contradictions" adequetly enough to your satisfaction, the bible would still not make sense to you because,it written for those who believe. It's like reading someone else's mail, it isn't for you. If you have ANY interest in understanding it, just believe on Jesus Christ for your salvation and then begin to read the "Love Letter" He wrote to His people. It will make surprising sense to you after that.

Obviously, it must be your choice to do that, and I pray that all of you gentlemen who don't believe will one day come to know Jesus like I do. You see, "The man with an opinion is at the mercy of the Man with an experience."

I could write pages of Apologetics to defend Christianity, but unless you experience the truth of "Life in Christ" it won't mean any thing to you. So here's what I'll do....

I won't try to convert anyone. That is God's job anyway. But I will pray that He makes Himself "real" to anyone who might be open to that. We Christians believe that all are called, but many will not accept. And that is fine. God gave us the free will to choose or not choose Him.
I won't say what I believe is better than what any of you believe. But there will come a time when the truth will be known. And everyone who reads this thread will at that time, argee that what is revealed as the truth, is the truth.

I believe that God will use this thread in someones life. May be only 1 person. But it will be worth it.

As always, it's great hearing from you guys. You are always stimulating and interesting to talk to. You always challenge my thinking.


P.S. If anyone would like to bounce anything off me about what I believe, I would be willing to coorespond with you via email. If I can't answer your question, I'm sure I can point you to someone that can.

I'm not interested in argueing, but in a dialogue with anyone with questions.

[email protected]

Funny thing though, those that had true faith...lets say the disciples for instance were all marytred for their faith. So one must ask if those that did the killing for their so-called faith had THE FAITH spoken of in the N.T.
Jesus, being innocent of ALL was murdered for ALL He would elect to salvation.

[url]http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=dependant[/url]

A hundred dollars if I can show you a contradiction in the bible. Let's start with one of the ten commandments, Thou shalt not kill. how does that jive the quote about if a man hath no sword let him sell his clothes and get one. What do you think you'd need a sword for, slicing salami? Or is it ok to kill in some circumstances such as in self defense? Well it doesn't say Thou shalt not kill except sometimes when you need to. Maybe there's gray areas with some of the other commandments like Thou shalt not commit adultery.
And let's not forget that line about turning the other cheek. But on the other hand there's also somethig in there about eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth. Am I just not interpreting the bible correctly? It seems that anytime I see one of those preachers on tv reading from the bible they have to stop and explain what the paticlular passage means exactly. For a documnt as important as the bible is, it can pretty vague at times.

2cents-
I was in a religous paraphenalia store the other day and saw an interesting painting with a short story "footprints in the sand". Any way, this man dies and is talking with Jesus about his life(reflected in the footprints on the beach) and the man says, 'Jesus, I see your footprints with mine all thru my life - except during my toughest times, where were you?'  Jesus replies, 'My son, those times you found so hard, did you ever think that maybe I was helping one of the other 6 billion people on the planet you selfish P.O.S.'

Think for yourself - because Jesus, Allah, Buddha,and all the others are no more real than the Easter bunny.      

If I am interpreting you correctly you have judged that Lawyers cannot be Christians. This poses an interesting dilemma. If I read the Scripture correctly Jesus Christ is the Advocate (in the Greek, One who stands between, an attorney) to all He has chosen to salvation. In addition God is seen as The Judge in Scripture and since He is equal to His Son He too must be the Attorney of Attorneys. Thus with your theology you state that God and Christ, alike, are not Christians and thus that God denys Himself. This is pure contridiction  for then God could not be God.......but that aside.....

I would rather believe that Christ is my Advocate between God and the Judgment I rightfully deserve. Satan the Accuser will one day stand before God, before he is judged himself, and give a well documented summary of your sin, (as if God did not already know it) but it will happen. God will ask you how you plead.

You can answer for yourself and say I did this and that, I was good, I owned an AR (it will not even protect you there)...... and God will judge accordingly, a sentence of Hell.

Or you may have an attorney. See there will only be qualified one in Heaven and His name is Christ (sorry O.J.'s attorneys will not be there in thier present capacity). Now in my case He will answer for me and say that my sentence of eternal death and punishemnt has already been paid, (see sin has a price that must be paid),and God will judge and say, enter into the joy of my Kingdom. He will say this NOT because I deserve it but because Christ gave me a free gift of waiver and reprive.

I think the later is a better interpretation of Scripture.

AR Spelling Police please excuse my errors.

That refers to the noun.  Rik was using it as an adjective.

Thanks anyways.

Oops. I snipped out the irrelevant BS and there seems to be nothing left of your post. Imagine that...

Wow, I hope your Bible interpretation skills are better than that. What I was stating was that there is no reason for me to take what Josh McDowell has to say on the subjects of theology, physics, biology, anthropology or history any more seriously than what *I* believe on the subject, given that he is an expert in NONE of those fields. He isn't just a Christian, he is someone who claims to have written the book that states the overwhelming "evidence" proving the Bible is true.  Now, I hope you understand my position better.

And how was the other gentleman using the term "evelution?"  Is that an alternate spelling of "evolution?"  Or how about "expantion?"  I know this may be beyond your limited capacity for rational thought, but there is a difference between slipping up and using an alternate spelling of a word with two spellings and making up an entirely wrong spelling for a word.
It's telling that this is the only point on which you feel qualified to argue, however.

A spelling error is a spelling error.  If you intend to disingenuously qualify between errors, criticizing his but justifying your own, then that says more about you than anything else you or anyone else has said so far.  You are splitting hairs and trying to rationalize away a mistake on your part.

If you don't have the dignity to admit when you are wrong after criticizing somebody else for committing that same error, then what has your system of beliefs done for you?

To put it simply, for your benefit: People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.  It takes a man to apologize.

I here all you guys talk that you dont want god. He wants you. He loves you but the choice has to be from you to surrender to him. He does not want a robot. Why do you think the world is so messed up. Because people have turned their back on God.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU ARE ALL MISSING IS THAT PARADISE IS AWAITING THE TRUE BELIEVER IN CHRIST. I DONT KNOW ABOUT YOU BUT THE THOUGHT OF HAVING A PERFECT BODY, NO MORE HARD WORK,COMING HOME SO TIRED THAT I COLAPSE, AND NOT TO WORRY THAT MY KIDS MIGHT GET KILLED IN SCHOOL OR I MIGHT GET CANCER OR ANY OTHER HORROR THIS WORLD HAS TO OFFER REALLY FLOATS MY BOAT. PARADISE FOREVER I LIKE THAT. AND ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT TAKE THE CHANCE OF BEING WRONG IN THIS AREA ARE NUTS. IF I AM WRONG THIS BELIEF GOT ME THROUGH A TERRIBLE WORLD I LIVE IN. BUT IF I AM RIGHT, I HAVE BETTER THEN WON THE LARGEST LOTTERY. IF YOU GUYS ARE WRONG YOU WILL BURN IN HELL FOREVER AND THE WORST THING IS YOU ARE GOING TO KICK YOURSELF CAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. NO SKIN OFF MY BACK IF YOU DONT BELIEVE. I WOULD LIKE YOU TO. BUT I AM NOT GOING TO FORCE YOU. YOU HAVE YOUR FREE CHOICE. MY TICKET IS PUNCHED. WHEN I DIE I GO HOME TO MY LORD.PRAISE BE TO JESUS. THANK YOU LORD GOD!!!!!!

Is it your assertion that you consciously chose between the two variations, "dependant" and "dependent," while cognizant of them both?  Or are you lamely trying to slither out of it because you, completely seredipitously, happened to misspell the word in an arcane form?

Oops, even if you did, you still screwed up the whole adjective/noun thing.

You misspelled something after insulting the intelligence of somebody else for misspelling something.

You owe him an apology.

And you still haven't answered my HARD QUESTION: Where did you learn to spell "dependant"?

"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled off was convincing the world that he did not exist"
- dont know who originally said that but it holds water for me

Kevin Spacey's character Verbal said it at the end of The Usual Suspects.

I agggrees wit yu cible, wyo's ee tu sya thet one spleening mitsake is wyrsere dan anoder? Ferget ihm Rikwriter hihms semms tu bee an iraitablee mahn.

I'm surprised that although Deer Slayer only wanted to find out how many non believers are on this board many believers have stepped in to save us from ourselves. What unusual behavior for a believer, usually they support my decision just like I support theirs.

Now Cible I sure as hell ain't no english teacher but could you tell me what seredipitously means?

Sure.  It means characterized by the faculty or phenomenon of finding valuable or agreeable things not sought for.  It comes from an old, old Persian story called the Three Princes of Serendip, or something like that.  They had this journey where lucky stuff kept happening to them.

Ignoring the conflict between the validity of the Judeo-Christian-Muslim belief system and all other religions in the world, I have a little story to tell.

I was "witnessed to" by a "born-again" minister one evening as I was doing my laundry at a laundromat.  This gentleman was out recruiting for Christ as his religion requires, and was earnest in his intent to convince me of the validity of his views, so we had the following conversation (edited, of course).

Me:  "I understand that the Christian belief is that God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent, and that He knows all that has happened, is happening and will happen.  Is this essentially correct?"

He:  "Yes"

Me:  "OK, then according to the Bible, the world is destined to end some time in the future because man is inherently flawed, right?"

He:  "Yes"

Me:  "OK, then why did He bother creating the world at all, when He knew what the outcome was?  What was the point of performing an experiment when you know the outcome?"

He:  (and I'm NOT making this up) "Well, there was a conflict among the Heavely Host and Satan was thrown out of Heaven.  Some of the Angels followed Satan, rather than God into Hell.  God created the Earth and man to show the Angels why they should follow God rather than Satan."

Me:  "Oh?  Then we're just an exhibition match for the Angels?  Whoopee.  I think I'll pass."

Belief in any diety requires faith.  Belief in a scientific explanation does too.  "First principles" are inherently not proveable, you just have to accept that the world really works that way without asking "why".  "Because God made it that way" isn't any better answer than "just because".  Anyway, since you have to have faith in SOMETHING, I choose to have faith in the one that makes more sense to me.  Adding a diety just adds a level of complexity (as in "oh yeah?  Where did HE come from?")

To me, what it comes down to is IF there's a God, and He/she/it wants me to be "saved" they'll see to it that I am.  Preaching to me isn't going to do it, so DON'T.  I'm a good guy, and I live by the motto that the only sin is in hurting another unnecessarily. (Hurting yourself isn't a sin, it's just STUPID.)  As others said above: don't hurt other people, take no crap, be responsible for your actions.  Good philosophy.

Oh sorry, thats what I thought sereNdipitously meant. Now I'm going to have to go look up serendipitously to find out what it means. [:)]

D'oh!

I must have spelled it the way the ancient Persians spelled it.  "It's just an alternate spelling."

Yeah, that's it.

And how would you know?

Then you aren't really "here"ing us. No one here has said they don't want god, they said they don't believe in any god.

The funniest thing about all this is that Cible probably had to look up dependent to know I chose the wrong version of the word.
The second funniest thing is that he still hasn't argued ANYTHING of substance.  
Come on Cible, if you have an argument, make it.
After all, the original poster in this thread DID state right up front that he didn't want Christians posting on this thread trying to convert him.  He posted it to find out how many other nonbelievers there were here, not as bait for the Bible-thumpers.  So since you and the other God-pushers here have seen fit to ignore that request and shove your noses in where you weren't invited, go ahead and make the compelling argument you seem to think is welled up inside your brain, ready to burst out.

Really? I've found it to be quite the opposite, myself being a non-believer and my friends who are like me, have nothing against any believers of any religion, we don't feel threatened by them, a little annoyed at times when they try and hassle you walking down the street or into a "satanic" concert with their pamphlets, but they (believers) at least the most visual ones will always jump on an exposed non-believer like a fly on sh!t. Why? I don't know the only thing I can think of is they do feel threatened, not by us really but because their faith is weak we make them question themselves and their beliefs, or they might have a lot of secret bad sh!t in their past that they are trying to make atonement TO THEMSELVES for by scoring as many conversion points as possible. Didn't Jesus himself say something like take your prayer and praises off the street corners and keep it in your homes?

My point is, a TRUE Christian who is strong in his faith is not one that will bother you or even let know about his beliefs unless you ask. I have a verse number somewhere that talks all about this, I'll see if I can find it, I wager none of the more vocal/crude "believers" here know this one or if they do they're choosing to ignore it, deleting it from their mental abridged copy of the bible, you know the one that lets them avoid hell but allows them to do anything they want AND be judgmental of others who are possibly doing the exact same thing.

EXACTAMUNDO, Faith was being threatened to those weak in it, and attack is the only option to prevent something happening like "tearing down the wall, and being exposed before their peers or themselves" -Roger Waters with my little twist on it to help apply.

Not ment to upset anybody, but yes I am a Christon. Personly I don't care who does and who does not believe. I do not attend a "Church" and I believe God helps those who help themselves. All I wanted to say.

Rew

I was trying to be sarcastic. I didn't think anyone would take it seriously because its kind of like saying "I can fly" or "I'm bulletproof". Truthfully I have never met any believer that respected my beliefs.

The word kill in Hebrew means MURDER. The is a difference in HAVING to take somebodies life and MURDER.

As far as having to take someone's lofe even LEOs have that authority biblically, Romans 13:1-8

Thanks for clarifying it. By the way he now has 2 other degrees, one in Theology and I think the other in Biblical studies.

Is this subject STILL going?

Man, nothin' like a little god talk to get the panties all bunched up.

I am White and Rikwriter is White so where is the "racism" ?
Does the mere mention of color make me a racist ? How many of Rikwriters posts have you read ? They guy just seems to lie in wait for somebody to mention color or ethnicity and he pounces like a rabid dog. Now I grant you that in this post it was I who first mentioned color
but it was relevent if you have read any of his posts either here or any of the other boards he
proselytizes on.