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Posted: 1/8/2005 3:19:12 PM EDT
[#1]
God is good. Heal up quick. This year I'm gonna try my darndest to make either Campys Bulletfest or a Hun Farm shoot (if'fn you'll have me  ) and we can meet finally. Sometime before heaven anyway.  |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 3:23:09 PM EDT
[#2]
I would, but I can't afford the gas. CW |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 3:42:45 PM EDT
[#3]
FedEx, dude. |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 4:34:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Spotting the 'bat light' in the sky, I came immediately !! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To those of you here who kiss the ass of Israel each and every day, I offer a few facts: 1) To the government of Israel, a dead American Sailor or Marine was only worth $100,000. 2) To the government of Israel, a wounded American Sailor or Marine was only worth $20,000. The government of Israel only paid anything after the families retained private attorneys (read it cost the families a portion of the fucking 'generous' Israeli settlement). The government of Israel was so proud of their motor torpedo boats who attacked the USS Liberty that the wheel from one of the MTB's is displayed in the Israeli Naval Museum. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I cannot begin to tell you about the Sailors and Marines who were killed and wounded. But I can say - so far as the enlisted ranks - these WERE the BEST and the BRIGHTEST the Navy (including the Marines) could offer. Probaly something less than 700 with their 'special' qualifications existed in the entire Navy. Nothing will ever be done. No one gives a fuck. So you folks continue to kiss Israeli ass and I'll continue to hate the various governments of Israel until the moment I die. 5sub |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 4:37:42 PM EDT
[#5]
The Israeli posteriors kissers need to read James Emmis book Assualt on the Liberty. They OWE their countrymen that much. |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 4:42:44 PM EDT
[#6]
What utter bullshit. As if an attack ordered by a government that is no longer in power against an administration no longer in power under totally different circumstances than today compares at all to a set of principles set down as a guide for government. Try comparing apples to apples willya? |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 4:47:04 PM EDT
[#7]
ALl teh FF are DEAD. King George is DEAD. Both gov'ts LONG gone. Circumstances are totally different today that in 1778. Dude - yer off your game. Which is illustrated by your IMMEDIATE resorting to profanity. |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 4:50:53 PM EDT
[#8]
At any rate, if we are going to take over the world any time soon, could someone please keep me informed so I can collect proper tribute from my soon to be subjects.
Oh yeah, it was an accident, the captain said so under oath, and I believe him. |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 4:51:19 PM EDT
[#9]
No, it's simply me calling a spade a spade. YOU'RE the one who's off his game: you're the one making lame comparisons that scream "bullshit!' without me having to say a word. The IDEAS and PRINCIPLES set down by the Founding Fathers and by King JOHN (not George) are what live on. No ideas or principles were established by the Liberty incident and your comparison is, as has been said, utter bullshit. |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 4:52:38 PM EDT
[#10]
McGonagle recanted that statement on his deathbed. WHen he figgered out he would soon be dead from cancer, the lies his gov't required him to tell seemed less important than the truth. |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 4:54:22 PM EDT
[#11]
Methinks thou doest protest too loudly. |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 5:07:35 PM EDT
[#12]
This issue will never be settled in the minds of some folks, and I can surely understand that!
It's like some of the families of the victims of September 11th! They will forever believe that the CIA 'knew', the FBI 'knew', that President Bush 'knew', or that all of the above 'knew' of the attack and did nothing to prevent it! Otherwise, the deaths of their loved ones will be nothing more than meaningless in the grand scheme of things in their minds! A 'tragic mistake' is something that no parent wants to believe about the death of a child, that no comrade wants to believe about the death of another. But it happens. Such is the 'fog of war.' Had the United States NOT informed Israel that it had no warships 'within 100 miles of the coast', it may have been different. Had the Order for the USS Liberty to withdraw from the area NOT have been misrouted around the globe, it may have been different. Had the Israel fighter-bombers been armed with anti-ship ordnance, it may have been different. Had the Israeli Command Center NOT cleared their action board of the green marker which identified the position of the USS Liberty and showed it as a 'neutral' vessel, it may have been different. Had the Israeli MTB boats NOT stopped dead in the water when they first approached the stricken American ship, it may have been different. Had the crewmembers at the .50 cal machine guns mounts at #51 and #53 not opened up on the dead in the water Israeli MTB boats, it may have been different. Had Israel actually been NOT been totally victorious on every front the very morning of the tragic attack, it may have been different. But you add all these factors together and what do you get? A tragic mistake in the fog of war. Do such things happen? Google 'friendly fire' and 'United States' and see what the results might be! And how many of such 'fog of war' deaths were actively sought by the United States? Under circumstances infinitely better than the means available to Israel in 1967! And, finally, there remains the clear and as yet unanswered question of motivation for such an attack. On June 8, 1967, the Headline of the New York Times was clear and concise: Israel Routs Arabs On All Fronts Why, oh why, dear reader, would the Israelis, on the very cusp of winning an incredible victory against its sworn enemies, dare to attack a US Naval vessel on the high seas? Why risk such an astounding victory to put an end to the USS Liberty's mission, whatever anti-Israeli mission, that Tel Aviv could have mistakenly thought it was engaged upon? Whatever the USS Liberty was doing that afternoon, IT WAS NO THREAT TO ISREAL'S TOTAL VICTORY! And we now know that the USS Liberty was merely gathering evidence that Soviet pilots were actually flying war planes for their Egyptian client! Why? Answer that and amaze us all! Eric The(FundamentalInAllThings)Hun 
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Posted: 1/8/2005 5:09:14 PM EDT
[#13]
is it really possible to mistake a usn spy ship for an egyptian freighter?
what was the weather like that day and the distances between the various watercraft, helos and jets? |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 5:10:39 PM EDT
[#14]
PLEEEEEEEAASEEEE!!! It was a bright and sunny day, calm seas, miles from ANY battles., on a clearly marked and ensigned US intelligence ship. Greater fog of war exists at most Baptist churches budget meetings. |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 5:14:29 PM EDT
[#15]
Post from garandman -
With all due respect, that is absolutely not what has been reported! What this Hero actually stated was that he supported the opening of a Congressional investigation of the entire affair. Read his testimony given but a few days after the attack and see what he said. It was under oath. And given as an Officer in the United States Navy! Please, let us not claim that this Hero was a bold-faced liar who violated his oath as a gentleman and an officer in some fruitless quest to show Israel to be an enemy of mankind!
So, this American Naval Hero was more than willing to cover up the premeditated murder of the brave men serving under him merely to protect his rank and privileges? And I suppose he received the Medal of Honor to keep him shut up until it was too late to threaten his pension? Lord, but I wonder if you would allow any Israeli to say that about this dear man? Then why say it yourself? Eric The(Perplexed)Hun
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Posted: 1/8/2005 5:17:46 PM EDT
[#16]
CUs that's what his officer, James Ennis, said. Ennis was there. You and I weren't my friend. I got a signed copy of Ennis book. A prized possession, along with my signed copy of We Were Soldiers (Hal Moore) and Band of Brothers (DIck Winters). |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 5:28:13 PM EDT
[#17]
I have no idea! And neither do you! And yet, the Israeli MTB commander stopped his squadron dead in the water because the ship that he was told he was after looked nothing like the stricken US ship, burning and smoking from the air attacks, that appeared before him. He signaled the stricken ship numerous times to have it identify itself, strange if the Commander knew precisely what ship he was there to sink! This was confirmed by Commander McGonagel's sworn testimony! Why signal a ship that you were ordered to torpedo and 'machine gun zee lifeboats'???? Why stop the attack? Why stop dead in the water? Tel Aviv could not have been happy with this fellow for failing to immediately follow his supposed orders to sink the Amerikanischer spy ship! The Israeli MTB commander only brought on his torpedo attack AFTER being fired upon ('effectively' according to Commander McGonagle's sworn testimony a mere four days after the event) by two of the USS Liberty's .50 cal gun mounts! Commander McGonagel immediately gave orders for all firing to stop, but the communication systems were out and by the time that other crewmen got to the gun mounts they were unmanned. All of this is ratified by the testimony of the other officers who were present on the bridge.
Read the entirety of the Board of Inquiry's investigation of the event, which is contained in full at the USS Liberty Memorial website! I use it a a very good source for showing that the attack MUST have been accidental! Of course, I am always inclined to believe US Naval officers. YMMV. Eric The(Honest)Hun
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Posted: 1/8/2005 5:35:42 PM EDT
[#18]
That's great. Read James Ennis. Even the History Channel account of the event records MANY who wre there were quite sure it was intentional. Or read here.....www.ussliberty.com/ THe site describes the attack as a war crime. |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 5:45:26 PM EDT
[#19]
It worked.
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Posted: 1/8/2005 5:50:03 PM EDT
[#20]
Methinks you say this because you have no rational counterargument. |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 5:52:06 PM EDT
[#21]
What worked? To reopen old wounds between two allied Judeo-Christian nations that are now poised in a life or death struggle against the same common enemy? How sweet! How special! How gauche! This issue will never be closed! No more than the assassination of JFK! <sound of one hand clapping> But never fear, I will never, ever shrink from defending the right side of history. Which is our side! Go, try to gather more wheat from thistles! Eric The(Incredulous)Hun
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Posted: 1/8/2005 5:52:41 PM EDT
[#22]
Its kinda like a class reunion. Where re-living the good old days just ain't as good as the good old days. |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 5:55:15 PM EDT
[#23]
Yeah, these USS Liberty discussions are about as sweet as Baptist vs. Church of Christ vs. Roman Catholic Discussions.
And just as counter-productive! But, hey! I've got plenty of time on my hands! At least 8 to 12 weeks, I am told! Now, where was that Mormon thread?????? Eric The(Argumentative)Hun
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Posted: 1/8/2005 5:57:29 PM EDT
[#24]
No, uncle Hun, I just wanted to see you post again. This was the surest way. Why else put the title in boldface and mention the USS Liberty in it? Hmmmmm? Like Garandman said, what we have here is an ol' fashioned reunion! Who brought the pie?? 
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Posted: 1/8/2005 5:57:47 PM EDT
[#25]
heh heh |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 6:00:05 PM EDT
[#26]
Yup...that'd be it all right. I served with two ex-Liberty sailors during my career. Both echo your post. One now runs their web site and lives in Norfolk. Shame on US for not telling the truth and paying those brave Cold Warriors the respect they all deserve. 
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Posted: 1/8/2005 6:03:55 PM EDT
[#27]
i doubt that either happened to mention why the Liberty was there in the first place. |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 6:03:58 PM EDT
[#28]
Sorry, my friend. It's the pain medicine. And the pain. It's destroying my sense of the absurd. And there's nothing more absurd than an Old Hun, sitting in a dimly lit bedroom, nursing old grudges, and not even thinking about the subject of pie! Pie? <shudder> Eric The(CelebateForASeason...AVeryLongSeason)Hun
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Posted: 1/8/2005 6:08:04 PM EDT
[#29]
Cheer up, old friend. There's nothing like having the Liberty to enjoy some pie.
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Posted: 1/8/2005 6:09:29 PM EDT
[#30]
THAT IS NOT A FUCKING BLACKHAWK!!! That helo is a Kaman SH-2F Seasprite bird, off of either a carrier or one of the frigates or single-ender cruisers in the 6th Fleet. It happens to be this bird:  It is also NOT photoshopped. That is an accurate pic of Liberty. When that photo was taken there were about 33 men entomned in her forward hold where the torpedo hit. Just for the record, I made at least four deployments with these helos and one was on my ship for about a two years in the late '80s before we got the mods to accept the SH-60B Seahawks. |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 6:10:34 PM EDT
[#31]
Some are unconvinced by eye witness accounts. They prefer Israeli politicians accounts. Oh well, takes all kinds for the world to go round. |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 6:11:56 PM EDT
[#32]
Shit happens. Sorry to seem flippant about it, but that is probably as close to the truth as we are gonna get here. Is it really possible to mistake a civilian airliner for a fighter jet? That has happened too. Twice. |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 6:14:40 PM EDT
[#33]
Flippant?? No, more like Assholish. (is that a word?) Wait till its YOUR loved one who gets killed by a deliberate attack by a "freindly" nation. |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 6:15:55 PM EDT
[#34]
+1 We always catch spies from all our true good friends and allies right? |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 6:16:11 PM EDT
[#35]
Post from Wobblin-Goblin -
You really, really do not want to cause me to split a gut, now, do you? I am afraid that only the Bride of Frankenstein would be turned on by the stitchwork on my abdomen. Well, either her or some Juliette Lewis character. Eric The(Dismembered)Hun
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Posted: 1/8/2005 6:17:43 PM EDT
[#36]
Yeah and Bill Clinton who was a President also told the truth..... |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 6:20:33 PM EDT
[#37]
Actually one did. The first Liberty sailor I with whom I served was a second class PO (E-5). IIRC, It was in 1969 and he reported aboard my ship. He refused to disuss any details EXCEPT to state that he absolutely knew for certain that the attack had been deliberate and that the Israelis knew full well who they were attacking. Since he was THERE topside and could see the action first hand, I have little reason to doubt. How many of you can say that? The second man was like me an officer. He too was topside and witnessed the entire attack. He was badly wounded, but remained able to function. IIRC, we last spoke about eight years ago. He told me that Liberty was in fact spying on ALL of the combatants then engaged in the Six Day War: BOTH the Israelis and the Arab members of the United Arab Republic, the political union of Syria & Egypt. Again, there was NO doubt in his mind about what happened and how the Israelis attacked knowing who they were attacking. Now...my brother officer does understand that the attack was an act of Realpolotik. What galls him and many of us old Cold Warriors is the refusal of OUR government to tell the truth. Given the world situation now, that is unlikely to happen in my lifetime. Should the Middle East ever become a peaceful, idyllic playground, where Jew and Arab and Christian live cheek by jowl in peace and harmony...then I believe we might just get those records released. |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 6:22:15 PM EDT
[#38]
<1GR>sigh</1GR>
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Posted: 1/8/2005 6:26:31 PM EDT
[#39]
BTW...Hey HUN!
Get well soon and don't get your skivvies in a bunch over any of this!
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Posted: 1/8/2005 6:32:24 PM EDT
[#40]
Yes, my dear friend?
My skivvies, I will have you know, are thoroughly and carefully ironed and laid out on the dresser for such time as I feel like putting them on! Which, judging by the tenderness of my amidships, might be many fortnights hence! Yes. And I am a shaved man, I tell you! A shaved man! And not a damn Penthouse Forum story to share with y'all about how it got done! I haven't a clue! Eric The(GutlessWonder)Hun
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Posted: 1/8/2005 6:38:58 PM EDT
[#41]
Did they give you good drugs man? After my last operation, my sawbones gave me some Oxycontin...and THAT stuff, at 40mg, REALLY knocked me OUT! Hope you're not in pain. |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 6:45:27 PM EDT
[#42]
I had some really good sh*t after my reconstructive knee surgery. Wow. Felt like I was starring in "The Outer Limits" while on that stuff.
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Posted: 1/8/2005 6:52:59 PM EDT
[#43]
No pain here, my friend. The doctor says it will take some time for 'Miss Emma' to completely pack her bags and leave the Hun household. I've got some prescription for Lortabs(?), Lortrim(?), or something, when the pain returns! In the meanwhile....they say she is buying the stairway to Heaven. Eric The(NextFloor)Hun
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Posted: 1/8/2005 7:02:38 PM EDT
[#44]
The most plausible story I heard was that the USS Liberty was intercepting Israeli SIGINT and providing it to the Egyptians. The Israelies knew, and so attacked the ship. |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 7:06:46 PM EDT
[#45]
well if thats the case then the Isrealis would have been our enemy then wouldn't they? So what side are you going to choose? Our ally in Isreal or the United States? |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 7:27:50 PM EDT
[#46]
Post from Drakich -
Nope. The Israelis were certainly aware that the USS Liberty had been plying the waters off its coast for at least 48 hours before the attack, and they likely knew that the ship was there solely to spy on the Soviet 'advisors' who were present in Egypt aiding their client-state. Which, they were, in fact, doing. Before anything else, remember when this occurred....during the Cold War! The Israel-Arab conflict was but a small matter when compared with the ongoing struggle between the world's two Superpowers! The United States supported Israel to the same degree and extent that the Soviet Union supported their Arab clients! As a matter of fact, the US Ambassador to the United Nations, kept the UN Security Council from meeting to discuss calling a ceasefire for the on-going Six Day War, UNTIL the US was informed by its Israeli ally that it had occupied as much of the Golan Heights as it needed for its security purposes! Only then did the United States support a ceasefire and permit the Security Council to meet to discuss it! And this was four days AFTER the attack on the USS Liberty! Yet, Israel didn't somehow fear that its unprovoked attack on a US Naval vessel on the high seas might NOT upset this finely tuned diplomatic ballet for its benefit? That requires a level of credulity that is astronomical! Eric The(Think,Man,Think!)Hun
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Posted: 1/8/2005 7:33:10 PM EDT
[#47]
Thinly veiled personal attack. BTW: I have lost friends in stupid accidents but I don't get overly emotional about it. |
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