Anybody who thinks that someone driving an SUV is not any safer than someone driving a smaller car has been smoking too much of something. It's simple physics that prove you are safer. Mass and weight, not to mention the beefier frame all figure into the equation.

Pony, not neccesarily true.  Bigger, sure.  Safer?  Marginally.  Like it was brought up, SUVs are a lot more likely to roll over than reglar cars.  Could you imagine flipping a few times on the freeway because you had a blowout?  At most, my car might swerve and spin out, but it's not likely to flip or roll.  Being hit?  I don't feel like I'm lacking either.  The light weight of my car, and the high crash test rating don't leave me wanting at all.

A smaller car hit by a large SUV does not neccessarily result in a car crushed like a tin can.  A smaller car is more likely to be pushed than a larger vehicle.  All of course, depends on the vehicle in question.    

Thinking about the physics, it's pretty much a mostly psychological safety.  

Everyone of you dipshits who thinks "My truck outweighs them, they need to move for me" needs to stop driving and start maturing.  

Certainly, not all SUV/Truck drivers are like that.  Having met quite a few, it seems to be the prevalent attitude among them.  Strangely they don't seem to understand common courtesy and right-of-way laws (yes, they apply to you too).  

Flame on if you want.  It will prove my point even more.  

While we're at it, let's let Boeing off the hook too. If the low bid engine blows up, you f*cking die......deal with it!

They're going to make other cars safer by making the SUV's less safe. Now they are both equally unsafe.

Make the cars safer like the SUV's, not dumb down the SUV's.

Are they nuts?

I don't understand who some of you can tout SUV safety when they tend to roll when they blow a tire. And when they do roll, the roofs are so poorly constructed, with no reinforcement, that they simply flatten and crush everyone's head.

That's safety?

How about panic maneuvers? Not!

If I were worried about safety, I would look at full-size cars like the Crown Vic (not counting exploding fuel tanks he he), BMW, Benz, etc. You can get a used 740i for the price of a new SUV that by all means is a superior vehicle.

But it ain't big and scary.

Well, with all of the "safety" people in here I better not mention that I ride a motorcycle on the street...

And here is why I would rather have a SUV:
[url]http://www.vidbay.com/video/files/vidbay-com_405_Movie.wmv[/url]

You never know....

See, that's why SUV drivers just need to get a freakin' clue.  Just STOP next time instead!  God.  And granny.....what a finger on her!

The gun parallel is here.  

Some of our countrymen are afraid.  Afraid of horrors associated with large vehicles or guns.  

They are afraid for themselves.  They may say they are afraid for others (as summarized on this board with the cliche:  "[i]for the children[/i]").  I assert that they are really empathetic.  They are really afraid how they would feel knowing others were tragically hurt.

They perceive those horrors as avoidable and brought on by unnecessary choices.  

I see some irony here. Is anyone old enough to remember when dad pulled his boat or travel tralier with a car? Now if you want to pull anything of any size, you need a large truck or suv to pull it.

So if we keep going like this we will need a semi to pull our toys. Then when they do thoes in......

Notice how the criticism is leveled at SUV's.  No one mentions mini-vans, many of which are just as large.  Oh, they are the favorite vehicle of the soccer-moms.  Now I see.

Effing crap!  No one sees piles of rolled over SUV's in the ditch.

Sure some people roll their vehicles, but I have seen more riced out Hondas get smashed by their idiot drivers than SUV's roll over because of their's.

Oh, one time I was cruising down Interstate 80 just west of Lincoln, NE.  It was snowing, and we were headed out on a ski vacation.  We were traveling around 75-80 or so, when I heard a muffled bang.  My '98 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 stayed put.  I thought an ice chunk had struck the underbody.  About 5 seconds later, I realized that the FRONT LEFT tire had blown.  I pulled to the side of the road to replace it with a FULL SIZED spare.

Whew!  Good thing I didn't burn in a firey crash along with my wife and son, because apparenty that is what usually happens?  Right?

SUV's are safer, period.  I understand that you are speaking on behalf of all the weenie car owners out there, and you would hate to admit that you are taking a gamble, but there it is...

You did.  You said you support more regulations, and if they weren't done voluntarily, it should be forced by the federal government.

You are trying to maintain an untenable position.  You cannot support both freedom and restriction.

Doesn't it get old after a while griping and worrying about what other people drive?  If I were that tight, I buy a bag of charcoal and go into the jewelry business.

Work as a LEO sometimes.

When the weather gets bad, you can count on most single vehicle crashes involving an SUV or a pick up truck.

SUV's roll much more often than other vehicles.

SUV driver's also have a tendency to swerve to avoid deer. That's right, that 150 lb deer causes the 5,000 lb behemoth to go off the road, and roll. Can't say that I have EVER gone to a "I swerved to avoid a deer, and rolled" involving a passenger car.

SUV's are safer, for their occupants, (generally) if they hit another vehicle, especially a smaller vehicle. But if the hit a fixed object, big tree, rock etc. all that mass that they have to protect you equals momentum, so it's kind of a wash.

But SUV's are far more likely to roll than cars, and most serious injuries in SUV's come from roll over crashes.

That's why they have to put stickers, warnings etc in SUV's pointing out the obvious, high center of gravity.

SUVs are a truck, no matter what. The manufactureres can lower the bumpers and used sheet metal to hide the fact that they are high off the ground, but internally, they still have a high center of gravity. It is really  hard to hide the fact that SUVs are basically still trucks, no matter how it looks like a passenger car. Few novice drivers realize the roll-over potential of SUVs when doing sudden menuvers because they think it is a regular passenger car.

Ok, first things first:

I HATE SUVs!

I don't like being that high off the ground when driving, or driving a vehicle that struggles to make a moderate turn at 60mph with out rocking (and basically performs like crap in general), but has worse gas milage than a Corvette. And then there are the SUV drivers (some, not all) who don't see anything riding below 5'6" (and thus cut off 4'XX" low-riding performance cars). Finally, the SUV craze killed my favorite car(Firebird),so as I said, I HATE SUVs...

That aside, I don't want to see more regulation.

First, because regulation in general is to be avoided on principle...

Second, because us 'performance car' drivers are next on the nanny-no-no list (we were first-target before the SUV craze). 'Limit power to weight', 'Ban the V8', 'put a 90mph speed limiter in every car'... Bah, buzz off...

Third, every car has it's 'unsafe' envelope. If I decide to dick around on an icy road, I'll be going nose-tail faster than you can say 'rear wheel drive'... If you try to take a curve too fast in an SUV, you'll be dirty-side-up in no time... And don't expect a 1.1L Camry's accelleration (or lack thereof) to save you from a poor merging decision. Don't call driver error a vehicle design defect. Call it driver error (know your vehicle's limitations)...

[img]http://udcnet.dyn.dhs.org/~dackl/phoenix_ii.jpg[/img]

Come and get it, if you can catch it...

P.S. The worst damage ever inflicted on a car I was in was caused by a TOYOTA AVALON midsized car. Said vehicle rear-ended my 91 Firebird, and BENT THE TRUNK DOWN AGAINST THE REAR WHEELS (also bending the frame, and cracking the front windshield). Mr Avalon's engine bay was crushed like a stomped soda can for his trouble, and the little subcompact that was tailgating him ruptured it's gas tank when it R/Eed him after he hit me...

If we're gonna complain about safety, the Civics, Neons, and other midgetmobiles are far more dangerous (especially to their owners) than SUVs... And although I can't justify regulating these either, it would cut down on the number of little cars with 4" fart-cans (and no mods to justify (technically) such a large exhaust) farting around town...

This is why you NEVER swerve for animals.  Brake, yes.  Swerve, no way.  Screw the damn animal, I would rather hit a deer than a tree, abutment, or another vehicle.  To say nothing about a rollover.  Plus, when you swerve to avoid a deer, they just match your move and you hit them anyway. I thought that was common sense?

In the original article, there are multiple statements made about the "aggresivity" of SUV's. Since when did a vehicle have the ability to be agressive? Fools.

MQ: You sir, are a fool. Trying to get people to listen to your side of a debate and using phrases such as "Suck my d**k" is about the perfect example of how to spot a fool.

Also, whining about safety of vehicles, then posting that you are always speeding is another tipoff of your foolishness. Or what was that... talking about we all own the road and that we have to follow the rules...? glad you obviously dont obey them.

Not much you posted that really was intelligable... so I'll not go on and on about it.

Back to the "real" issue here, SUV's.

Vehicles themselves are just like guns or any other tools. It's the person using them that is or is not safe. I personally think it's a bit too easy to get a drivers licence, and that there are way too many irresponsible drivers on the roads, but they're gonna be irrisponsible regardless of what type of vehicle they are driving.

Being on the receiving end of a crash, the SUV will usually be better off. Being on the giving end of a crash, the SUV will usually be better off... I see this as the opposite of what was originally posted. The cars themselves are less safe, and should be the vehicles that are being worked on for safety measures.



Since there are already more "light truck" sales than cars, and obviously the most common type of vehicle on the road according to this article... why not work on fixing the minor portion as opposed to fixing the majority?

It is. But TONS of people swerve to avoid all manner of critters, even with other traffic around.

Put them in an SUV with a high center of gravity, and their propensity to swerve.........

Let's not get into the false sense of security people get in bad weather with 4wd. Hey do those brakes work better on a 4WD than a 2WD passenger car?? NOPE.

I think DaveA's opinion is pretty close to mine. I don't particularly care for SUVs, but I certainly don't mind if you want one. I have a '89 Mustang because I like fast cars (not that I drive all that fast). No matter what you drive, there's always something bigger then you, like the 80,000lb semis that transport everything we use, and I'd rather have a little more speed and maneuverability. The bottom line is that you are responsible for knowing both the capabilities of your vehicle and what is going on around you. And yes, no matter what you drive, you may someday be killed by crashing into a bigger vehicle. Deal with it.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of these people had the goal of eliminating Private Ownership of Vehicles. IMHO, POV is critical to being able to mount an effective resistance to tyranny, almost as important as guns.



Of course, when your dad pulled trailers with his car, cars still had full frames, rear-wheel drive, and big V8s. Now, just try to find a car that isn't a unibody, front-wheel drive, 4-banger. You need to get a truck or SUV to get those features now, which is probably part of the reason for their popularity. The toys aren't getting bigger, the cars are getting smaller. Of course, cars got smaller in response to demands for higher fuel economy and cheaper prices, and emissions regulations.

And MattQ is an annoying hypocrite.

Its ok people SUV drivers are in my opinon people  who cant decide between a P/U and a minivan! hehe j/k
On another note alot of this SUV safty crap is just that crap I dont belive that they are statisicly safer than anything else out there.
And to boot One of the safest rigs on the market right now is the VW New beetle Not exactly a SUV is it.

I really don't see how I'm being hypocritical at all.  Sure, I can tell I'm not leaning as far to the right as most of you do.  I don't think my rights trump everyone else's, and that everyone else who can't afford what I can should just deal with it.  

The lack of compassion is a little astounding.  (see ProfessorEvil's comments: )

Lest ye all forget in our ongoing debates with Anti's who WANT to treat cars like guns, the BASIS of our logical reasoning behind our beliefs:

Owning a gun is a RIGHT enumerated in our Constitution.

I'll grant that owning a vehicle is a right, as it is property, however, operating said vehicle on public roads, is a PRIVELEGE, and IS subject to rules and regulations.  The vehicle does have to conform to standards set at the behest and for the benefit of the driving society.

Some people seem to forget that we DO live in a SOCIETY.  There are, and must be rules and regulations in ANY society.  I know a lot of you don't like that, but tough.  That's the way it is.  Imagine no regulation on anything... want homeowner's insurance?  What would you do, how would you feel, if your agent said "that'll cost you $1000 a month.  Can't afford it?  Tough shit"  Buy some meat from the supermarket that happens to be tainted by E coli, and get deathly ill.  Oh well, you can't to SHIT about it.  

Get my point?  Regulation isn't neccessarily a bad thing.  Too much regulation, and regulation that infringes real, tangible rights, is wrong.  

As for further regulation of SUVs, to make them safer for everyone, make them more fuel efficient, make their emissions lower-  I'm not going to call my congresscritter and ask him to pursue it, but if legislation passes, I won't shed a tear.  Heck, even if something like that happened, how on earth would it affect you guys?  You could still drive your SUVs.  You could still buy SUVs.  They'd just be safer and more efficient.  But you wouldn't want that, now would you?  

You're beginning to sound like a congresscritter.

I still think you should stay off the road since you're so afraid of the big bad meanie SUV's.  Take the bus and you'll have the weight advantage over the puny SUV's.

seadweller,

Another offshoot of the attitude ProfessorEvil highlighted.  The "stay off the road if you don't like my big ass vehicle" attitude is part of it.  I think you should grow up.

I will NOT stay off the road.  It's MY road, too.  You don't like it? tough crap.  You don't like the rules?  Tough crap.  You don't think our driving PRIVELEGE is subject to rules and regulation that make it safe for all of us?  Tough crap.  You don't like it?  YOU stay off the road.  

And remember, name calling is a weak man's imitation of strength.

I kinda agree with the doctor in the article. Too many of those Smaller vehicles are just negligent when it comes to consideration to other vehicles on the road. They try and make 3rd lanes when there are only 2.

SUVs are no worse than pickups, or anyother car on the road.  Sorry but anybody who targets SUVs for unfair competition on the roads needs to grow up and get a fricking life.  LIFE AINT FAIR SO GET OVER IT D.S.

Like many beer cans on the road now, you can thank your federal government and the fucking green watermelon types for their shortcomings.

Place the blame where it is due, not on an inaminate pobject.

First off, you're the one that needs to grow up.  You're rant makes you sound like a babbling baby.  How old are you anyway?  I thought you were leaving this thread????

I like the road and have no problem with SUV's even though I drive a rice cooker.  WTF is your problem?

For reals, are you some safety advocate freak or something?  Did some big mean SUV run you off the road before or something?
[b]
Another thing Mr Regulator, if the law says 65mph why the hell are you going 75mph????  The gov sets and regulates the speed limit for our safety and it sound like you ignore it on a regular basis.  How many other traffic/safety laws are you violating?[/b]

Did you have too much spiked egg nog?  Your  rant's are the funniest I've seen in awhile.
 

Don't like big evil "assault weapons?"
Ban 'em!

Don't like big evil "urban assault vehicles?"
Ban 'em!

Can't you see its for the children?

[size=5]CRAP[/size=5]
When is this shit gonna stop........[frag]

Rancid Lance

Edited because I forgot about cigs and fast food, BAN 'EM

See, the problem is, you guys treat anyone who doesn't like {insert non-gun item here} the same as we treat anti-gunners.  

FWIW, I do drive a small car.  It rated #2 in crash test ratings in it's size class, behind a model of Saturn, so no, I do not drive a tin can.  My car can hold it's own.  

My views about vehicles were the same when I drove a pickup truck.  They will remain the same with whatever vehicle I choose to own next.  I do NOT blame the vehicle for the dumbass that drives it, regardless of the type of vehicle.  [read this next part carefully:] It is also my [i]OPINION[/i], and only my [i]OPINION[/i], that people who get SUVs just to drive themselves around, are WASTEFUL.  You do have the freedom to be that wasteful, if you so choose, but I have the freedom to NOT LIKE IT.  Heck, I can even voice my opinion about it.    

You guys just can't deal with someone's opinion when it differs from yours.  Face it.  That's what it is.  

And Rancid, noone's calling for a ban on anything.  Certainly not me.  That's another problem.  Someone doesn't like something that you do, and you automatically assume they want to ban it.  I don't want to ban SUVs.  Get over it.  Get off of it.  

So you go at or below the speed limit when in the left lane of a freeway?  Right.  Sure.  The point of my comments before was that I'm not one of those slow asses who blocks everyone on the freeways or anywhere else for that matter.  I know where I'm going, and I drive like I want to get there.  

Listen, my driving habits speak for themselves.  I have not had ANY tickets for ANYTHING in more than 8 years.  I have NEVER caused a collision or wreck IN MY ENTIRE LIFE.  The only wreck I've ever been involved in was when I was rear ended while at a complete stop.  Not much I could do about that, was there?  

Let he who is without sin throw the first stone.  

Hey hypocrite I ain't the wannabe aspiring safety advocate clamoring for .gov regulation to save us from the big mean SUV's.

You want safety?...practice what you preach!  Do 65 and don't forget to treat red lights at the intersection as a stop sign when you make that right turn.

so you're admitting that you're perfect, right?  I so wish I could be you!

BTW, I'm not an 'advocate'.  I simply wouldn't care, and wouldn't cry, if the gov't imposed higher safety standards on, well, on ANY vehicle.  I'm a conservative, both politically and environmentally, but you won't see me in any rallies with the rabid stump-humping bunny-lover hippie environmentalist.  I like driving an environmentally friendly car with a big phat NRA sticker on the back.  Maybe THAT is a little hypocritical in some eyes, but I can love my freedom, and respect the environment, too, can't I?

Try thinking of a new angle Mr. Hypocrite!

So I don't get a say anymore because I drive like you do?  

Nice try trying to turn this around to me when it's YOU that has the SUV problem.  Please get over with it and "Be Well".  

It must be terrifying for you out there  everyday fighting for a lane with all those meanie gas guZZling SUV's.  You know, since everything is all unregulated and such.

How ever do you do it?

Do you have nightmares?

Well, I don't have some childish little coniption fits like you'd like to believe I have.  I simply do not like SUVs, think they are needlessly, and uselessly (to most of their owners) large.  I think they're wasteful.  I think they give people the false sense of security.

My best buddy drives an SUV.  I'm not afraid of it, and I'm not afraid to ride in it.  I just laugh at the shitty gas mileage he gets, and it's all in good humor.

And, I guess this lights the fire under your ass, I wouldn't care if the gov't changed safety standards for ANY vehicle.  YOU don't seem to like that.  I accept that that part of our lives, our interaction on public roads, is subject to  rules and regulations.  I accept them, because they have a tangible affect, unlike banning 30 round mags, which we know is placebo for whiney emotional liberals.  My feelings about cars and guns are very different.   I'm sorry that you can't handle that.  I'm sorry that it bothers you, but that's tough.    

Believe me, your rants are more amusing than bothersome.  The first one was classic.

But if people waste their $$$$ on grocery getting SUV's why does that bother you so much?      

Glad I could give you a laugh.  I am kinda playing devil's advocate in this one, even though I'm not pushing it further than I really feel (i.e. not saying SUVs should be banned and their drivers thrown in jail, a la Rosie with guns).

People can waste their $$ on SUVs, and I can dislike it.  Sure, it's their problem, wasting their own hard earned money.  It's just voicing that opinion that seems to bother people here.  My first post on this thread was in knowing people would ostricize me for my views.  And I was right.  They did.  Most gun owners I know and have interacted with are the nicest, most polite and considerate people in the world, but a few are so radical, you can't disagree with them about anything!  You can't dislike something they do like.  That has reared it's ugly head here.  

Here's some interesting stuff I found:



Just some interesting things I dug up.  Something to ponder.  

When I saw your first post in this thread I knew you were gonna be in for it.

Big deal, I'll still get that Navigator one day.  Hopefully they'll juice up that puny 4.6L 300hp engine to something comparable the Escalade which is rated around 350hp.

POS Sidekick an SUV?

MQ: I certainly hope you're driving a moped or bycicle around when it's not raining/snowing... otherwise you're being WASTEFUL.

I certainly hope you're barely squeaking by just getting the internet open on your computer, using every clock cycle to do it, otherwise you're being WASTEFUL.

I certainly hope you're not eating more calories than you burn each day complaining about biggers vehicles, otherwise you're being WASTEFUL.

I certainly hope you're bringing these steamping piles of... to be burned for fuel, otherwise you're being WASTEFUL.

I certainly hope you don't ever watch TV, use a computer when not working, leave a light on, let water run to warm up, listen to music, drive anywhere that you could walk to, ever use air conditioning, ever use heating unless it's below 50F outside, or flush the toilet more than once every other day... otherwise (you guessed it) you're being WASTEFUL.

I certainly hope... you're not wasteful.

But with your other hypocritical statements, we can safely assume you, too, are a waste.



I think it's also our opinion that your posts are wasteful, and wast both our and your time. And we have the freedom to NOT LIKE IT. Heck, we can even voice our opinion about it and flame you.

I guess if size is the a major factor/concern, than according to NTSHA we should all be driving semi-trucks. Or we should make all vehicles the same size, that is banning all semi-truck or motorcyles etc. What they are really asking for is that we all give up our individualilty(shows up more than in just firearms) and all ride public transportation(of course under govt control), that way there would not be any problems of excessive size one(too small) or the other(too big). This is typical socialist/communist bullshit - i.e. everyone is the same.

car trucks.

that's what i call 'em

Why are you so keen on Government regulation of SUVs anyways? It isn't necessary. Automakers already have the incentive to make cars as fuel-efficient as is practical, since people want more efficient cars. The same with safety: independent labs already investigate crashworthiness and issue ratings, which consumers read. Consumers then tend to purchase safer SUVs and avoid less safe SUVs. Where do government regulations come in? The free market works, and trying to legislate efficiency just screws things up.

And with that, I think you are just about out of ideas.

Us gun owners generally respect diverse opinions, but expect a violent reaction when  you support government regulations and restrictions on inatimate objects.

Hmm what is that saying that comes to mind?

[img]http://www.drunkbastard.net/photos/arguing.jpg[/img]

I would like not to die when some re-re driving anything decides he/she has to occupy the space that I am in.

Seems pretty simple to me...

1)  There are ALWAYS going to be dumbasses on the road (doing makeup, talking on cell, jacking off,... whatever) WATCH FOR THEM AND STAY OUT OF THEIR WAY!!!

2)  Know your vehicles performance characteristics and limitations.  You DON'T take 35 mph offramps at 70 in a Suburban (esp. in bad weather, and I've seen it done), and you DON'T try to climb a hill in 18" of snow with a Corvette.  Soccer moms seldom know even a fraction of what their 'burban or Yukon or LandCruiser can do.  They also don't know what it can't do.  They don't know shit typically.  Avoid them at all cost.

3)  Drive Smart - Don't be the jackass in the 4wd that has to go 60/70/80 in Downpours/Snowstorms/Hurricanes.  There is always some f*cknut on the highway (usually in a 4wd) that passes everyone doing 20 mph faster than any windshield wiper on earth can keep up with.  I can only assume they are using the force.

4)  If you have a small car you are going to end up dodging bigger cars.  If you drive a big truck/SUV you are going to have to watch for the little cars dodging you.  FACTS OF LIFE!!!  DEAL WITH IT!!!

BAAHAHAHAHAHA!

You are a liberal TROLL.
Go away!

You have just quoted the WORST information source for automobile information that you can possibly quote from!

The IIHS is nothing more than a mouthpiece for the insurance industry!
These are the same morons that helped to get three wheel ATV's banned (when most accidents were the cause of the shit-for-brains operating them), they want to ban Quads (for the same reasons why they helped to get three wheel ATV's banned).
They are also the same morons who want to ban high powered motorcycles since they are too dangerous, yet CURRENT Federal safety studies on motorcycle accidents PROVE that hig powered motoecycles are SAFER than underpowered ones.

The IIHS is also in bed with Ralph Nader and Joan Claybrook.

That CRAP you posed as "information" means as much to me as the "information" that is provided by HCI and the rest of your liberal friends to your liberal gun banning pals.

Dude, shut the fuck up and go away.

You have already said what you wanted to say. Now go away. Go. Go.

You still here? GO!