MotoGP is where it's at folks!

326 lbs
250+ hp
2 wheels
200+ miles per hour
14 riders
1 winner

Watch this and see if you think MotoGP kicks NASCAR's butt for racing action.

MotoGP Action

I just wish we had more live MotoGP and WRC coverage on TV here in the US.

Nice older MotoGP compilation. I'd like to find out where to download that.

SpeedTV is all set with full coverage of MotoGP again this year. However, the b*stards have completely dropped WRC and no one else in the US has picked it up. There will be NO WRC coverage in the US this year

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When a dead guy is STILL your favorite driver, as if he's gonna be there next Sunday, it's time to quit watching.

Do people actually enjoy watching people drive around in a circle, or do they just tolerate it because there is nothing else to do?

Frankly, I'm mystified that anyone would be interested in watching any sports.  And I find it absurd that local television stations actually report on sports during their newscasts.  Dumbfounded, actually.

Am I missing a sports gene, or something?  I just don't get it.

OK, I used to love NASCAR. I understand the nuances of the pit stop, the finding of horsepower, the bending of rules, the draft etc... It used to be a cool sport. Nascar's sellout, special favors for big name drivers, constant rule changes, penalties for minor curse words etc... have just pissed me off. I truely believe there are cautions for "debris" just to keep some golden boy from going a lap down. I think there are designated spinners to bring out cautions. I don't like "pit road speed" or restrictor plates. Build better fences and let them go.  I'll probably still watch until I find something better or I find that it will never get better.

Quoted: Four weeks until F1 starts.  Can't wait to hear what a bunch of 2.4L V8s will sound like, spinning 20,000rpm.

4 weeks until Sebring.  Already worked corners at the Rolex24.

Quoted: Quoted: Four weeks until F1 starts.  Can't wait to hear what a bunch of 2.4L V8s will sound like, spinning 20,000rpm. It'l be a BEAUTIFUL sound. And Ferrari will win, of course.

Really.  They didn't win too much last year.

Quoted: Toyota will OWN NASCAR in a couple years. wOot!

Nope.  The France family will not allow that.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Four weeks until F1 starts.  Can't wait to hear what a bunch of 2.4L V8s will sound like, spinning 20,000rpm. It'l be a BEAUTIFUL sound. And Ferrari will win, of course.   Yeah the potential excitement of one or two cars being passed during a race is over fucking whelming

See, that's what I don't get.  There isn't exactly a lot of passing in Nascar, especially at a restrictor plate track, except in the pits.

So, where does this arrogance come from?

Quoted: I just wish we had more live MotoGP and WRC coverage on TV here in the US.

Watch the entire race (pre and post) on your computer, then watch the race on TV.

I wish the AMA did the same thing with AMA Superbike, AMA Supercross and AMA Flat Track races.

Quoted: Little Jr. would be lapping those French/Euro-tards.

People actually believe crap like this.

Quoted: How does one lap another?  You drive real fast.

Shows how much you know.  You can't lap someone in a WRC race, because it is point to point through some pretty exciting terrain.

Quoted: There is way more to it than driving in circles. First thing, the sky is not the limit on the engines. They are basically limited to a production motor within 3 years and basically factory produced parts. It is all test and tune from there. Then to boot, they need to build (from previous) a small block that'll turn nine grand for 500 miles and hold together. Thats is a huge feat considering how simple the engines they run are. You also have a full bodied 3000 plus pound car (most of which are family cars) that you need to take to 200mph. It is really easy to talk when you are not behind the wheel. As for those of you import guys, Nascar did an exhibition run in Japan some years ago and the Japanese could'nt keep up with the good ole boys. Oh, and my favorite part is the sound of those motors. They are by far the crispest sounding motors I have heard. I also love drag racing but you can't beat em for the sound. My only complaint is the BS bump draft and the damn doughnuts. IMO, thats pretty dumb. Sr, Elliot and the like never did that.

What a load.  How many street cars still use pushrods and carbs?

Those are not family cars, they are silohuette cars made from tube frames.

The Japanese guys had never been in those things before.

How about some facts?

There are only two good races to watch in NASCAR, Watkins Glen and Sears Point.





MotoGP is the best racing no holds barred.

Quoted: 4 weeks until Sebring.

I'll be there testing on the 23rd.

Have any of you Rally fans seen Travis Pastrana race, and is he really any good?  Seems like he does well in the US series (I don't think he is big-time enough to do the worlds yet) and the only way I know about him is from racing motocross, where it looked like  he was going to rule the roost.

I only watch Daytona, Talladega, and the road course races.  All the others really suck.

Saw a rerun of I think it was an 89 Dover race on TV last year, no speed limit on pit road (holy shit ), smoking tires around the corners, the car makes looked kinda different.  I loved watching that old race, considering I can't stand the racing there nowdays.

F1 is getting to NASA for me.
CanAm, TransAm from 68' to 72' was the real deal.
Donohue, Penske, Revson. Nuff' said! Even the geeky Sam Posey too.

Quoted: Quoted: 4 weeks until Sebring.   I'll be there testing on the 23rd.

23rd of February or 23rd of March?

What are you gonna be testing?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 4 weeks until Sebring.   I'll be there testing on the 23rd. 23rd of February or 23rd of March? What are you gonna be testing?

Yeah, you can't throw that out there and leave us hanging.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Four weeks until F1 starts.  Can't wait to hear what a bunch of 2.4L V8s will sound like, spinning 20,000rpm. It'l be a BEAUTIFUL sound. And Ferrari will win, of course.   Yeah the potential excitement of one or two cars being passed during a race is over fucking whelming See, that's what I don't get.  There isn't exactly a lot of passing in Nascar, especially at a restrictor plate track, except in the pits. So, where does this arrogance come from?

Ok, first of all you win the retarded post of the day comment

Last 2 years plate races

2005 Daytona 500- 22 lead changes among 12 drivers
2005 Pepsi 400 -7 lead changes
Aarons 499('Dega)-33 lead changes among 6 drivers
'04 EA sports 500('dega) -47 lead changes among 20 drivers
04 Daytona 500-28 lead changes among 10 drivers
'04 Aarons 499- 54 lead changes among 23 drivers
'04 Pepsi 400- 21 lead changes among 12 drivers


With F-1, you would be lucky to have that many lead changes in 3 decades

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Four weeks until F1 starts.  Can't wait to hear what a bunch of 2.4L V8s will sound like, spinning 20,000rpm. It'l be a BEAUTIFUL sound. And Ferrari will win, of course.   Yeah the potential excitement of one or two cars being passed during a race is over fucking whelming See, that's what I don't get.  There isn't exactly a lot of passing in Nascar, especially at a restrictor plate track, except in the pits. So, where does this arrogance come from? Ok, first of all you win the retarded post of the day comment Last 2 years plate races 2005 Daytona 500- 22 lead changes among 12 drivers 2005 Pepsi 400 -7 lead changes Aarons 499('Dega)-33 lead changes among 6 drivers '04 EA sports 500('dega) -47 lead changes among 20 drivers 04 Daytona 500-28 lead changes among 10 drivers '04 Aarons 499- 54 lead changes among 23 drivers '04 Pepsi 400- 21 lead changes among 12 drivers With F-1, you would be lucky to have that many lead changes in 3 decades

Most of those "lead changes" were due to pit stops and orchestrated yellow flags.  Yeah, plate racing is real exciting, you pass someone by getting in line.  Lots of passing in those follow-the-leader lines.

I got your "retarded post" dangling.  Besides, this is the retarded post of the day:

Little Jr. would be lapping those French/Euro-tards.

You can't lap someone in a rally.

Like I said, where does the arrogance come from?  Pushrod engines, carbs, and not a Dodge, Chevy, or Ford out there.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Four weeks until F1 starts.  Can't wait to hear what a bunch of 2.4L V8s will sound like, spinning 20,000rpm. It'l be a BEAUTIFUL sound. And Ferrari will win, of course.   Yeah the potential excitement of one or two cars being passed during a race is over fucking whelming See, that's what I don't get.  There isn't exactly a lot of passing in Nascar, especially at a restrictor plate track, except in the pits. So, where does this arrogance come from? Ok, first of all you win the retarded post of the day comment Last 2 years plate races 2005 Daytona 500- 22 lead changes among 12 drivers 2005 Pepsi 400 -7 lead changes Aarons 499('Dega)-33 lead changes among 6 drivers '04 EA sports 500('dega) -47 lead changes among 20 drivers 04 Daytona 500-28 lead changes among 10 drivers '04 Aarons 499- 54 lead changes among 23 drivers '04 Pepsi 400- 21 lead changes among 12 drivers With F-1, you would be lucky to have that many lead changes in 3 decades Most of those "lead changes" were due to pit stops and orchestrated yellow flags.  Yeah, plate racing is real exciting, you pass someone by getting in line.  Lots of passing in those follow-the-leader lines. I got your "retarded post" dangling.  Besides, this is the retarded post of the day: Little Jr. would be lapping those French/Euro-tards.

You can't lap someone in a rally.

Not gonna argue with that

Quoted: 4 weeks until Sebring.  Already worked corners at the Rolex24.

Hopefully Audi will dominate... they're racing a diesel ya know.

Quoted: 2005 Daytona 500- 22 lead changes among 12 drivers 2005 Pepsi 400 -7 lead changes Aarons 499('Dega)-33 lead changes among 6 drivers '04 EA sports 500('dega) -47 lead changes among 20 drivers 04 Daytona 500-28 lead changes among 10 drivers '04 Aarons 499- 54 lead changes among 23 drivers '04 Pepsi 400- 21 lead changes among 12 drivers

Nascar definitely has more passing, but it doesn't help that F1 only has 60-70 laps while Nascar is easily double that.  And they have more accidents, more cautions, thus more pit stops, etc.  I think most F1 fans will admit there isn't enough passing, but at the same time we don't want lead changes on every lap... it's starts to lose significance when it happens all the time.

I generally think of a 500 miles Nascar race as being 495 miles of qualifying and a 5 mile race.  F1 is closer to the opposite of that.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Four weeks until F1 starts.  Can't wait to hear what a bunch of 2.4L V8s will sound like, spinning 20,000rpm. It'l be a BEAUTIFUL sound. And Ferrari will win, of course.   Yeah the potential excitement of one or two cars being passed during a race is over fucking whelming See, that's what I don't get.  There isn't exactly a lot of passing in Nascar, especially at a restrictor plate track, except in the pits. So, where does this arrogance come from? Ok, first of all you win the retarded post of the day comment Last 2 years plate races 2005 Daytona 500- 22 lead changes among 12 drivers 2005 Pepsi 400 -7 lead changes Aarons 499('Dega)-33 lead changes among 6 drivers '04 EA sports 500('dega) -47 lead changes among 20 drivers 04 Daytona 500-28 lead changes among 10 drivers '04 Aarons 499- 54 lead changes among 23 drivers '04 Pepsi 400- 21 lead changes among 12 drivers With F-1, you would be lucky to have that many lead changes in 3 decades Most of those "lead changes" were due to pit stops and orchestrated yellow flags.  Yeah, plate racing is real exciting, you pass someone by getting in line.  Lots of passing in those follow-the-leader lines.

You got stats to back that up????

I do, and you dont know what you're talking about. '04 Talladega race

LAP LEADERS: 54 lead changes among 23 drivers. Ricky Rudd-pole, Michael Waltrip 1-2, Joe Nemechek 3-4, Mark Martin 5-10, Dale Earnhardt Jr. 11-14, Sterling Marlin 15-16, Earnhardt 17, Kurt Busch 18, Casey Mears 19-23, Ryan Newman 24, Robby Gordon 25-30, Jeff Gordon 31-35, Dale Jarrett 36, J. Gordon 37-39, Earnhardt 40-43, Tony Stewart 44-45, Earnhardt 46, Kevin Harvick 47-49, Earnhardt 50-53, Jimmie Johnson 54-55, Earnhardt 56, Brian Vickers  57-58, Waltrip 59-68, Jarrett 69, R. Gordon 70-77, J. Gordon 78, Harvick 79-81, Earnhardt 82-84, Jarrett 85, Jimmy Spencer 86, Scott Wimmer  87-88, Harvick 89-94, Bobby Labonte 95, Eric McClure 96, Earnhardt 97-113, Jamie McMurray 114-115, Elliott Sadler 116, R. Gordon 117-120, Waltrip 121, Jamie McMurray 122-123, Jimmie Johnson 124-131, Joe Nemechek 132, Johnson 133-135, Earnhardt 136-137, Johnson 138-144, Stewart 145-148, Greg Biffle 149, Terry Labonte 150, Jimmy Spencer 151, R. Gordon 152-155,  J. Johnson 156-160, Earnhardt 161-179, Harvick 180-181, Earnhardt 182, J. Gordon 183-188.

12 of the lead changes above were for only 1 lap. That would indicate that they were most likely caution led laps or pit stop lead changes. That still leaves 39 leaders for multiple laps led which indicates a high probability of green flag conditions.

I will agree that Nascar does have problems and the racing is sometimes less then stellar.(especially on the 1.5 mile ovals). But  Formula One is about as exciting as watching paint dry. Whats the draw?. Over engineered cars with mega computers and traction control. Look at what Jeff Gordon did a few years ago in JPM's F-1 car. He was .25 secs off on  actually being able to qualify time wise for an F-1 race. That was his first attempt in an F-1 car. Put an F-1 guy in a stock car and see what would happen.  Oh wait, they did. His name was Christian Fittipaldi. Wow, he tore it up

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Four weeks until F1 starts.  Can't wait to hear what a bunch of 2.4L V8s will sound like, spinning 20,000rpm. It'l be a BEAUTIFUL sound. And Ferrari will win, of course.   Yeah the potential excitement of one or two cars being passed during a race is over fucking whelming See, that's what I don't get.  There isn't exactly a lot of passing in Nascar, especially at a restrictor plate track, except in the pits. So, where does this arrogance come from? Ok, first of all you win the retarded post of the day comment Last 2 years plate races 2005 Daytona 500- 22 lead changes among 12 drivers 2005 Pepsi 400 -7 lead changes Aarons 499('Dega)-33 lead changes among 6 drivers '04 EA sports 500('dega) -47 lead changes among 20 drivers 04 Daytona 500-28 lead changes among 10 drivers '04 Aarons 499- 54 lead changes among 23 drivers '04 Pepsi 400- 21 lead changes among 12 drivers With F-1, you would be lucky to have that many lead changes in 3 decades Most of those "lead changes" were due to pit stops and orchestrated yellow flags.  Yeah, plate racing is real exciting, you pass someone by getting in line.  Lots of passing in those follow-the-leader lines. You got stats to back that up???? I do, and you dont know what you're talking about. '04 Talladega race LAP LEADERS: 54 lead changes among 23 drivers. Ricky Rudd-pole, Michael Waltrip 1-2, Joe Nemechek 3-4, Mark Martin 5-10, Dale Earnhardt Jr. 11-14, Sterling Marlin 15-16, Earnhardt 17, Kurt Busch 18, Casey Mears 19-23, Ryan Newman 24, Robby Gordon 25-30, Jeff Gordon 31-35, Dale Jarrett 36, J. Gordon 37-39, Earnhardt 40-43, Tony Stewart 44-45, Earnhardt 46, Kevin Harvick 47-49, Earnhardt 50-53, Jimmie Johnson 54-55, Earnhardt 56, Brian Vickers  57-58, Waltrip 59-68, Jarrett 69, R. Gordon 70-77, J. Gordon 78, Harvick 79-81, Earnhardt 82-84, Jarrett 85, Jimmy Spencer 86, Scott Wimmer  87-88, Harvick 89-94, Bobby Labonte 95, Eric McClure 96, Earnhardt 97-113, Jamie McMurray 114-115, Elliott Sadler 116, R. Gordon 117-120, Waltrip 121, Jamie McMurray 122-123, Jimmie Johnson 124-131, Joe Nemechek 132, Johnson 133-135, Earnhardt 136-137, Johnson 138-144, Stewart 145-148, Greg Biffle 149, Terry Labonte 150, Jimmy Spencer 151, R. Gordon 152-155,  J. Johnson 156-160, Earnhardt 161-179, Harvick 180-181, Earnhardt 182, J. Gordon 183-188. 12 of the lead changes above were for only 1 lap. That would indicate that they were most likely caution led laps or pit stop lead changes. That still leaves 39 leaders for multiple laps led which indicates a high probability of green flag conditions. I will agree that Nascar does have problems and the racing is sometimes less then stellar.(especially on the 1.5 mile ovals). But  Formula One is about as exciting as watching paint dry. Whats the draw?. Over engineered cars with mega computers and traction control. Look at what Jeff Gordon did a few years ago in JPM's F-1 car. He was .25 secs off on  actually being able to qualify time wise for an F-1 race. That was his first attempt in an F-1 car. Put an F-1 guy in a stock car and see what would happen.  Oh wait, they did. His name was Christian Fittipaldi. Wow, he tore it up

Sorry too much to snip.

The other thing is those lead changes are only recorded at the start finish line. There are lots of laps with multiple lead changes that NEVER get scored.

Yeah......I'm a NASCAR jackass.

Quoted: You got stats to back that up???? I do, and you dont know what you're talking about. '04 Talladega race LAP LEADERS: 54 lead changes among 23 drivers. Ricky Rudd-pole, Michael Waltrip 1-2, Joe Nemechek 3-4, Mark Martin 5-10, Dale Earnhardt Jr. 11-14, Sterling Marlin 15-16, Earnhardt 17, Kurt Busch 18, Casey Mears 19-23, Ryan Newman 24, Robby Gordon 25-30, Jeff Gordon 31-35, Dale Jarrett 36, J. Gordon 37-39, Earnhardt 40-43, Tony Stewart 44-45, Earnhardt 46, Kevin Harvick 47-49, Earnhardt 50-53, Jimmie Johnson 54-55, Earnhardt 56, Brian Vickers  57-58, Waltrip 59-68, Jarrett 69, R. Gordon 70-77, J. Gordon 78, Harvick 79-81, Earnhardt 82-84, Jarrett 85, Jimmy Spencer 86, Scott Wimmer  87-88, Harvick 89-94, Bobby Labonte 95, Eric McClure 96, Earnhardt 97-113, Jamie McMurray 114-115, Elliott Sadler 116, R. Gordon 117-120, Waltrip 121, Jamie McMurray 122-123, Jimmie Johnson 124-131, Joe Nemechek 132, Johnson 133-135, Earnhardt 136-137, Johnson 138-144, Stewart 145-148, Greg Biffle 149, Terry Labonte 150, Jimmy Spencer 151, R. Gordon 152-155,  J. Johnson 156-160, Earnhardt 161-179, Harvick 180-181, Earnhardt 182, J. Gordon 183-188. 12 of the lead changes above were for only 1 lap. That would indicate that they were most likely caution led laps or pit stop lead changes. That still leaves 39 leaders for multiple laps led which indicates a high probability of green flag conditions. I will agree that Nascar does have problems and the racing is sometimes less then stellar.(especially on the 1.5 mile ovals). But  Formula One is about as exciting as watching paint dry. Whats the draw?. Over engineered cars with mega computers and traction control. Look at what Jeff Gordon did a few years ago in JPM's F-1 car. He was .25 secs off on  actually being able to qualify time wise for an F-1 race. That was his first attempt in an F-1 car. Put an F-1 guy in a stock car and see what would happen.  Oh wait, they did. His name was Christian Fittipaldi. Wow, he tore it up

Don't need stats to back it up, it is readily apparent.  If they were to not throw a yellow for every little thing, there would be nowhere near as many lead changes.  A lot of the lead changes come after going back green, that's part of the deal.  If they didn't go yellow, you would have 1 or 2 cars (except perhaps the restrictor tracks) lapping the field.  They throw the yellows for the mysterious "debris" in order to keep that from happening and to keep the field bunched up.

The few races where they haven't done that have wound up with the winner on a lap by himself.  I can't recall which show it was, but I have seen it.

Jeff Gordon, Stewart, Robby Gordon, and a few others can drive other style of race cars.  That is not what anyone is saying.  Most of the "drivers" in that series can't drive anything else, they admit it.  They also admit that road courses are harder.

There is always the comparison to F1.  I an neutral on F1, though 2005 was a better year than most of the 5 or so previous years for actual competition.

But, there is Grand American (the Rolex24 group) and American LeMans Series (the 12 Hours of Sebring group).  There are also several street stock series to support those 2 series.  That is the best racing, especially the street stock races.

I work corners for those series (as an SCCA licensed worker) and have worked Nascar on a road course.  No comparison.

Christian Fittipaldi was not an F1 driver.  He was, at best, a mediocre Champ Car driver.

Look at Boris Said and Ron Fellows.  When Nascar is at the Glen or Sonoma, both of them take cars that are usually non-competitive and take them to the front.  Of course, Nascar is never going to let one of them win a race.

Kyle Petty said once at the Rolex24 when he was driving a Porsche in the GT class that Nascar fans are all about the drivers whereas sports car fans are into the cars.

Back when Nascar actually raced modified street cars, there was some good racing, but now that there are no longer any Fords, Chevies, or Dodges in the show, it is just that, a show.

In the GT classes in GrandAm and ALMS, the cars have to have started life as a street car.  Not necessarily one that has ever seen the street, but one that started life as a street car.  Porsche and Ford do produce race ready cars, but they took street tubs to do it.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 4 weeks until Sebring.   I'll be there testing on the 23rd. 23rd of February or 23rd of March? What are you gonna be testing?

Apologies for not expanding,

I'll be there on the 23rd of this month with a Champ Car, driver is being announced tomorrow.  

This was last year...





We have two days at Kershaw (N.C.) on March 6 and 7 and then we have another test at Sebring towards the end of March in preparation for the Long Beach Grand Prix.

Sebring seems to be our second home during the off season, it is one of the few places available during the winter months.

Sorry for the hijack...

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 4 weeks until Sebring.   I'll be there testing on the 23rd. 23rd of February or 23rd of March? What are you gonna be testing? Apologies for not expanding, I'll be there on the 23rd of this month with a Champ Car, driver is being announced tomorrow.   This was last year... www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/6jv.jpg We have two days at Kershaw (N.C.) on March 6 and 7 and then we have another test at Sebring towards the end of March in preparation for the Long Beach Grand Prix. Sebring seems to be our second home during the off season, it is one of the few places available during the winter months. Sorry for the hijack...

Have y'all tried to rent Roebling Road near Savannah?  A lot of pro teams test there.  It is a 2.5 mile 8 turn road course.

I have been meaning to get up to Kershaw.  It's only a few years old.  Another track you might consider is Barber Motorsports Park near Birmingham, but it gets a bit colder there than does Roebling or Sebring.  Road Atlanta definitely gets cold during the winter.

Any hints on the driver name or at least what series he is coming out of?

Quoted: There is way more to it than driving in circles. First thing, the sky is not the limit on the engines. They are basically limited to a production motor within 3 years and basically factory produced parts. It is all test and tune from there. Then to boot, they need to build (from previous) a small block that'll turn nine grand for 500 miles and hold together. Thats is a huge feat considering how simple the engines they run are. You also have a full bodied 3000 plus pound car (most of which are family cars) that you need to take to 200mph. It is really easy to talk when you are not behind the wheel. As for those of you import guys, Nascar did an exhibition run in Japan some years ago and the Japanese could'nt keep up with the good ole boys. Oh, and my favorite part is the sound of those motors. They are by far the crispest sounding motors I have heard. I also love drag racing but you can't beat em for the sound. My only complaint is the BS bump draft and the damn doughnuts. IMO, thats pretty dumb. Sr, Elliot and the like never did that.

You have been brainwashed.

NASCRAP is motorsport for the people who ride the short, "special" bus.

Quoted: nascar hasn't been real racing since petty retired. not long after he left it no longer became stock car racing, it turned into pandering to the crowd and sponsors. they sold out about 15 years ago.

The 80's were the glory years for nascar.  Pearson, Earnhardt, Allison's, LaBonte, Bonnet, Petty, Waltrip.  Someone wronged another they would fight it out.  The fight was out of genuine anger and they wouldn't throw bullshit fines.  

NASCAR is nothing but a 4hr info-commercial with the drivers with the best looks having the best cars.  I blame Jeff Gordon.  I haven't watched a race in 3 years and I am better for it (and so has my golf game).

Quoted: Quoted: nascar hasn't been real racing since petty retired. not long after he left it no longer became stock car racing, it turned into pandering to the crowd and sponsors. they sold out about 15 years ago. The 80's were the glory years for nascar.  Pearson, Earnhardt, Allison's, LaBonte, Bonnet, Petty, Waltrip.  Someone wronged another they would fight it out.  The fight was out of genuine anger and they wouldn't throw bullshit fines.   NASCAR is nothing but a 4hr info-commercial with the drivers with the best looks having the best cars.  I blame Jeff Gordon.  I haven't watched a race in 3 years and I am better for it (and so has my golf game).

That was back when they actually raced Fords, Dodges, Plymouths, Pontiacs, and Chevies.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: nascar hasn't been real racing since petty retired. not long after he left it no longer became stock car racing, it turned into pandering to the crowd and sponsors. they sold out about 15 years ago. The 80's were the glory years for nascar.  Pearson, Earnhardt, Allison's, LaBonte, Bonnet, Petty, Waltrip.  Someone wronged another they would fight it out.  The fight was out of genuine anger and they wouldn't throw bullshit fines.   NASCAR is nothing but a 4hr info-commercial with the drivers with the best looks having the best cars.  I blame Jeff Gordon.  I haven't watched a race in 3 years and I am better for it (and so has my golf game). That was back when they actually raced Fords, Dodges, Plymouths, Pontiacs, and Chevies.

Now just about everyone has the same car with the exception of the emblem on the grill.  Might as well turn it into IROC.

Quoted: Apologies for not expanding, I'll be there on the 23rd of this month with a Champ Car, driver is being announced tomorrow.

Is she ready for the big leagues?

Quoted: Caution for Jeff Gordon. Penalty for Carl Edwaeds. Bullshit. Gimmie another series to follow. The ARCA race was goo this AM. Fuck nascar.

They FUCKED Carl Edwards.  Jeff Gordon can take a long walk off a short cliff.   Junior looks to be back with Eury Jr back around, I hope I hope I hope.

Quoted: How long before Kyle Busch gets probation for driving like an asshole ???

He got warned at least once.  Everyone was driving a little crazy.

Quoted: Quoted: Little Jr. would be lapping those French/Euro-tards. In a rally race? How does one lap another driver in a rally race?

Junior is that damn good, Chuck Norris like even


ETA To all you indy and f1 dorks.  Wasn't it Unser Jr that instead of using that tiny little turbo v-8 used a naturally aspirated chevy small block a few years ago to whoop mucho ass at one tenth the cost of the lawnmower engines prompting a rule change to ban the type of engine he used?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Little Jr. would be lapping those French/Euro-tards. In a rally race? How does one lap another driver in a rally race? Junior is that damn good, Chuck Norris like even ETA To all you indy and f1 dorks.  Wasn't it Unser Jr that instead of using that tiny little turbo v-8 used a naturally aspirated chevy small block a few years ago to whoop mucho ass at one tenth the cost of the lawnmower engines prompting a rule change to ban the type of engine he used?

That was not a Chevy small block.  It was an engine that Chevy paid Ilmor to produce.  It was made in England.  Twin cams, 4 valves per cylinder.  The only thing Chevy about it was the name on the valve covers.  It was also turbocharged.

Now, who's a dork?

Quoted: Is she ready for the big leagues?

Don't know what you are talking about...

quote]

What a load.  How many street cars still use pushrods and carbs?

Those are not family cars, they are silohuette cars made from tube frames.

The Japanese guys had never been in those things before.

How about some facts?

Hey Larry, since you clearly only know about F1 you should stop there. Ford is in its last usable year for a 302 (pushrod motor). Next year it is off to the mod motor. They lost the use of the 351 because it went out of production about 5 years ago. Chevy uses the SB2. It is a pushrod motor known to the general public as the 5.3 and 6.0 in gm cars and trucks and is still current production. (looks suprising like a ford motor too). Chrysler is also a pushrod motor and is in current production. As far as carbs, Nascar forces everyone to use the same induction system, as well as transmission and rear axle assembly. At that point it keeps the challenge between the engine builder and driver. Using production bodies also keeps the manufacturers on their toes in the wind tunnel. Some people have brought up stupid rules and changes and that is true, nascar has changed for the worse in that aspect but the aformentioned holds true. If you don't like Nascar then thats your deal. You can't compare F1 to Nascar just like you cannot compare top fuel to pro stock. They are completely different. Oh, then there is a lot of talk about bike racing. Same deal, its completely different.

I used to defend NASCAR, but it gets harder and harder with every passing year.  I think that NASCAR has hit its peak...its only going to go down.  I really do not believe that the non-traditional fans are going to stick around much longer.  As for the old school traditional fans, I think all this talk of the "car of tommorrow" and the "common template" have forced many away.  

Few will argue that back in the day, when the cars actually were somewhat stock and closely resembled what was on the road, NASCAR was where it was at.  Sadly, big TV packages and cutting good racing in the South to expand at poor racing tracks across the US, has only driven home the poitn that its all about the money (and not the competition or great racing).

I still love to watch the old races from N. Wilkesboro on ESPN classic.  Just a bunch of good ole boys beating and banging.  

Sloth, you are definately right. Rules and BS have ruined Nascar. There are no "battles" anymore but follow the leader. Restrictor plates are a waste of time and prevent any real racing yet I also assume removing them would show us who the real drivers are and who can just follow the groove. I have been watching it on and off most of my life and it has definately lost its thrill. I have been seeing a woman who is into it so I have been making more of an effort to pay attention.

Quoted: quote] What a load.  How many street cars still use pushrods and carbs? Those are not family cars, they are silohuette cars made from tube frames. The Japanese guys had never been in those things before. How about some facts? Hey Larry, since you clearly only know about F1 you should stop there. Ford is in its last usable year for a 302 (pushrod motor). Next year it is off to the mod motor. They lost the use of the 351 because it went out of production about 5 years ago. Chevy uses the SB2. It is a pushrod motor known to the general public as the 5.3 and 6.0 in gm cars and trucks and is still current production. (looks suprising like a ford motor too). Chrysler is also a pushrod motor and is in current production. As far as carbs, Nascar forces everyone to use the same induction system, as well as transmission and rear axle assembly. At that point it keeps the challenge between the engine builder and driver. Using production bodies also keeps the manufacturers on their toes in the wind tunnel. Some people have brought up stupid rules and changes and that is true, nascar has changed for the worse in that aspect but the aformentioned holds true. If you don't like Nascar then thats your deal. You can't compare F1 to Nascar just like you cannot compare top fuel to pro stock. They are completely different. Oh, then there is a lot of talk about bike racing. Same deal, its completely different.

I don't care if they make everyone use carbs, it in no way relates to today's cars.

Production bodies?????????  Not hardly.  It is almost impossible to tell one alleged brand from another.

Also, manual trannie.  Regretably, you cannot get a manual tranny, for the most part (I am not sure about the Charger), in the cars that the alleged cars supposedly represent.

I didn't bring up F1.

Larry,
I believe the lower end of drag racing is about the only type of racing that uses an automatic transmission. The reliablity is just not there in an automatic. If they ran auto's, your next comment would be that they cannot drive because the cars had auto's. Do you have a problem that the rearend Nascar uses in all the cars is a ford 9"? This thread has now gone nowhere because you really don't know much about Nascar except to ride the body. The body is handmade and follows a template that must follow specific guidlines based upon production bodies. Stick to the F1, you have derailed!

Quoted: Larry, I believe the lower end of drag racing is about the only type of racing that uses an automatic transmission. The reliablity is just not there in an automatic. If they ran auto's, your next comment would be that they cannot drive because the cars had auto's. Do you have a problem that the rearend Nascar uses in all the cars is a ford 9"? This thread has now gone nowhere because you really don't know much about Nascar except to ride the body. The body is handmade and follows a template that must follow specific guidlines based upon production bodies. Stick to the F1, you have derailed!

The hoods, decklids, and roofs are bone stock on nascars. They come straight from the manufacturer.  Nascar is still the best around in terms of car racing on paved tracks.  Almost all big open wheel races are follow the leader.  When a dick like Tony Stewart is bitchin that the battles in nascar are gonna get somebody killed, it's not follow the leader at all.  A nascar pack is constantly changing. Constantly moving around.  I love it.  Now if you really want a show.  Go watch the world of outlaws.  mmmm.  I remember being about 14 watching Sammy Swindell running 110 into the corners at I-30 speedway.  1/4 mile track.  Really is the greatest show on dirt

Quoted: Quoted: quote]The hoods, decklids, and roofs are bone stock on nascars. They come straight from the manufacturer.  Nascar is still the best around in terms of car racing on paved tracks.  Almost all big open wheel races are follow the leader.  When a dick like Tony Stewart is bitchin that the battles in nascar are gonna get somebody killed, it's not follow the leader at all.  A nascar pack is constantly changing. Constantly moving around.  I love it.  Now if you really want a show.  Go watch the world of outlaws.  mmmm.  I remember being about 14 watching Sammy Swindell running 110 into the corners at I-30 speedway.  1/4 mile track.  Really is the greatest show on dirt

I have seen them too. Awesome car, smallblock in a go-kart. I used to watch the dirt modifieds but have not followed them in years. Last time I was watching "barefoot" Bob McCredie (sp) was racing. I am not a fan of the 6cyl in the outlaws but still some fast racing non-the-less. I have to disagree about the nascar and follow the leader. Stewart is just a bitch and could not run with the old guys (in their day) to save his life. Jr, maybe, gordon, no

Oh, Larry, I apologize for the F1 comments. I was thinking that was you.

You weren't watching Outlaws.  You might have been watching midgets or mini sprints.  Mini sprints usually have Rotax motorcycle engines that make 80 HP at 12,000 RPM.

Outlaws use 410 CI small block V8's. The cars weigh 1375 WITH the driver in them, they run on methanol.  That's around 800 horsepower with a drive shaft thats pretty much straight from the rearend, to the crank. 800 HP in a 1375 pound car=FUN!

No, I know its was dirt modifieds. There were a series of winged outlaws using 6cls but did not care for that much. Anything worth watching has a smallblock in it. Its cool (well not really) when a fire breaks out because the methanol burns pretty much clear.

Quoted: Both NASCAR and pro wrestling (not Lucha Libre, though) are plots by the Yankees to keep the South from rising again, and I think it's working. Don't get me wrong, I would love to auto race... if I had a car... and could drive... but anyway, racing seems like it'd be fun. But watching racing? That's just retarded. The cars go 'round and 'round and 'round and 'round and...

If that's all it takes to keep them down, they probabaly weren't going anywhere in the first place.