no I got that because I tried out a kami and it BROKE! tameshigiri. I cut three Wara and then on the fourth one it went SPLAT! so I'm not parrotting ANYTHING....... I'm speaking from PERSONAL experience.


Edited to say: oh yeah and isnt the Kami supposed to be the best out of his line?


so PFFFFFT

Quoted: no I got that because I tried out a kami and it BROKE! tameshigiri. I cut three Wara and then on the fourth one it went SPLAT! so I'm not parrotting ANYTHING....... I'm speaking from PERSONAL experience. Edited to say: oh yeah and isnt the Kami supposed to be the best out of his line? so PFFFFFT

Face it, hombre - as my soldiers would say, "You got served."

45 degree angle on the wrist, hand one inch below the tsuba, with support on the end, four clean and steady swipes in the same fashion and it broke. Only four cuts and that's all i'm going to get into this with. I've got better things to do then justify myself to a self-proclaimed knowitall.

Quoted: no I got that because I tried out a kami and it BROKE! tameshigiri. I cut three Wara and then on the fourth one it went SPLAT! so I'm not parrotting ANYTHING....... I'm speaking from PERSONAL experience. Edited to say: oh yeah and isnt the Kami supposed to be the best out of his line? so PFFFFFT

I just got a Paul Chen Practical Plus... it looks really nice, feels solid, balances very well and doesnt feel tip heavy. I used it to cut the shipping box it came in (about as wide as a person) and the blade went through like butter every time without a hitch. YMMV, I guess.

Quoted: 45 degree angle on the wrist, hand one inch below the tsuba, with support on the end, four clean and steady swipes in the same fashion and it broke. Only four cuts and that's all i'm going to get into this with. I've got better things to do then justify myself to a self-proclaimed knowitall.

Damn - people laugh at you in person - now we are laughing at you on the 'net.  It must suck to be you.

Quoted: Quoted: 45 degree angle on the wrist, hand one inch below the tsuba, with support on the end, four clean and steady swipes in the same fashion and it broke. Only four cuts and that's all i'm going to get into this with. I've got better things to do then justify myself to a self-proclaimed knowitall. Damn - people laugh at you in person - now we are laughing at you on the 'net.  It must suck to be you.

Quoted: Quoted: 45 degree angle on the wrist, hand one inch below the tsuba, with support on the end, four clean and steady swipes in the same fashion and it broke. Only four cuts and that's all i'm going to get into this with. I've got better things to do then justify myself to a self-proclaimed knowitall. With over 25 years of Japanese fencing and having been an instructor for the last 15 I am hardly a self proclaimed know it all. "45 degree angle on the wrist, hand one inch below the tsuba, with support on the end, four clean and steady swipes" means NOTHING and being able to describe a proper stroke is not the same as being able to execute one. Like a 8 year old saying "Breath, relax, aim, squeeze, slow..." and thinking that alone means he can do it and win at Perry. Now for some REAL experience: The most popular blades by FAR in our Kai are Paul Chens. We do pretty serious tameshigiri and far beyond the traditional methods and of about 75 students NOBODY has ever broken a Paul Chen. Of course the fact that they receive CORRECT instruction nobody has ever broken ANY sword. I can recall exactly 2 instances of bent blades, neither were Chens.

Maybe our friend should join a local WMA or Creative Anachronisms group?  He may find fellow dorks who think they can learn to fight or use weapons from reading books?  Nah, they'd probably laugh at him, too.

That Cold Steel guy is a cheese-hole.

Lets give the benifit of the doubt and say volderwatsit used the correct technique. Lets say his Paul Chen had a bad blade and broke. That could be a rare faulty blade from Chen. Sure it was your personal experiance, but basing your opinion on ONE BLADE is silly. Even if that was a crappy blade, the sheer fact that so many martial arts students DO successfully use Paul Chens is a testiment to thier quality. I have been on many sword forums where a vast majoryity enjoy Chens. No - they arent the hand crafted works of art some custom smiths make  - but they are practical and made for the job and do it well.

Sooo - anyway.  Bleh.

And Stey Aug - you sounds like a cool guy. Guns and swords and stuff - OH MY! I bet a tour of your house would drive you insanely jelouse.

And again - I highly recommend swordforum.com - lots of good info - and you can talk to DOZENS of people who use Chens and other swords everyday.

Quoted: 45 degree angle on the wrist, hand one inch below the tsuba, with support on the end, four clean and steady swipes in the same fashion and it broke. Only four cuts and that's all i'm going to get into this with. I've got better things to do then justify myself to a self-proclaimed knowitall.

Yeah - that didn't really tell me a whole lot either - instead, an explnation of how much time you've spent practicing iaido, kenjustsu, kendo (or whatever), where you learned it (and from whom) - and how you are ranked, would be more relevant.

ok here's a bit I wanted to post on this whole issue, I guess I need to clarify things a bit since mister44 says I ended up coming like a horse's ass.

<Corvus> ROFL!!!
<Corvus> Mister44 has joined #lobby
<Corvus> * ChanServ sets mode: +v Mister44
<Corvus> <Mister44> bleh we got some dumbasses on the net
<Corvus> <Mister44> like this Voldermortist chuckle head
<Corvus> * Voldermortist has joined #lobby
<Corvus> * ChanServ sets mode: +v Voldermortist
<Voldermortist> how how nice
<Voldermortist> and why exactly am i a dumbass?
<Voldermortist> well actually save it, wait til I finish cooking breakfast
<Voldermortist> then we can fight
<Voldermortist> cause this will prolly take a bit
* Corvus (~corvus@=w15.crcr9.xdsl.nauticom.net) Quit (QUIT: <Sgtar15> I am only bisexual because wife only gives it up twice a year)
<Mister44> youre a chucklehead from the katana thread
<Mister44> and I am lamenting that I have to go to a stupid rehersal dinner instead of my KMFDM concert
<Voldermortist> ok
<Voldermortist> week 1: I know nothing about swords.
<Voldermortist> week 2: I go on vacation and manage to work with a kami katana which breaks on me
<Voldermortist> week 3: steyraug insults me
<Voldermortist> that should sum it up
<Voldermortist> basically
<Voldermortist> because of poor experience with a kami katana, which is suppose to be paul chen's best, breaks on me gives me a bad impression of chen chao po
<Voldermortist> as would Glock or SIG if a customer bought one of those and it broke on them, regardless of how good people say they are, chances are said person isnt going to want to buy one again
<Voldermortist> so in my opinion cas iberia is SHIT
<Voldermortist> and my cousin wasnt too happy about his sword either
<Voldermortist> oh
<Mister44> i suppose - but if you had a glock - and it didnt work out for you - you cant ignore the millions of others it has worked out for
<Voldermortist> and on a sidenote, while I am not too into the arts of japanese swords, I am well acquainted with the proper technique in applying a cutting stroke
<Voldermortist> oh yes I could
<Voldermortist> heh
<Voldermortist> and I would
<Voldermortist> well
<Voldermortist> for a while anyhow
<Voldermortist> I'd probably come around on it
<Voldermortist> but not for a while
<Voldermortist> i'd be rather nervous to try one out again
<Mister44> calling it shit and completely dismissing it completely ignores others experiances
<Mister44> one should relate thier personal experiance - but one should not dismiss the 1000s of others experiances
<Voldermortist> well it's not a matter of ignoring others, it's a matter of finding a gun you feel confident with, while other people may feel confident with the gun, I myself would feel rather  pessimistic about it even if it did work for me
<Voldermortist> in otherwords while the gun may be reliable, it'd take a while for me to trust the gun again
<Voldermortist> but with paul chen is different
<Voldermortist> not only with my bad experience
<Voldermortist> but with the fact I've heard several other testimonies of them being second quality
<Voldermortist> anyways it's just a matter of trust
<Voldermortist> other paul chen katanas may in fact be very nice
<Voldermortist> I just dont trust them
<Mister44> there are much better swords out there
<Voldermortist> yes
<Voldermortist> bugei
<Mister44> but they are great for the money and useful to many
<Voldermortist> bugei is paul chen blades
<Voldermortist> as well
<Voldermortist> but different design
<Voldermortist> his cas iberia line, I've heard are factory produced
<Voldermortist> not hand produced
<Voldermortist> like the bugei-paul chen line
<Voldermortist> or howard clark or ted tenold
<Voldermortist> and David Hwang I got from my cousin, he has one of his swords but doesn't want to use it. he's rather anal about the stupid thing
<Mister44> yes - thats all well and nice
<Voldermortist> or it is possible Chris did something with the kami before I used it that deteriorated the strength value of it, so when I used it it went splat
<Voldermortist> he could have been doing fouled up strokes with it
<Mister44> you should have perhaps backed up your first statement with your experiance - as it would give your POV - and perhaps at the same time giving a nod that others find them quite capable
<Mister44> like i dont personally like glocks - but I acknowledge they fit a niche and do thier job well
<Voldermortist> well given steyraug's attitude when he approached me, I really didn't feel like justifying myself to someone that pompous
<Voldermortist> I mean if had at least asked "WHY" then we would have gone to something good
<Voldermortist> but he jumped the gun
<Mister44> and as styr said - it could have been your technique - but no one wants to recognize that could be it
<Voldermortist> it's possible
<Mister44> i suppose - but somehow you came off as the jackass
<Voldermortist> *shrug* oh well.
<Voldermortist> maybe i should post this
<Voldermortist> it may have been my technique I really dont know
<Voldermortist> but with only four strokes I find it hard to believe any sword would break
<Voldermortist> even paul chen's practical swords
<Mister44> gawd damn i hope they catch that jackass
<Mister44> oop sorry
<Voldermortist> what jackass?
<Mister44> wrong window
<Mister44> some guys cousin ripped off thier grandma for like 20K
<Voldermortist> oh that's pleasant. o.O
<Mister44> and i said that it could have been a bad blade - but everyone in manufacturing makes a bad product now and then - you cant base it on one experiance
<Voldermortist> that's true, but  I'd prefer to go with something else before I go back to paul chen
<Mister44> yep - thats your personal choice/perogative
<Voldermortist> hmmmmm
<Voldermortist> mind if I post this log? I really dont want to re-write all. I can just post this and let steyraug arrive at his own conclusion.
<Mister44> if youwant
<Voldermortist> ok thanks
<Mister44> you can start from when corvus stirred the pot
<Mister44> lol
<Voldermortist> heh ok
<Mister44> http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=263315&page=3
<Voldermortist> thanks



so that's that. Take the impression however you want, I don't care.... but that's what happened that night with my cousin's kami katana.

was cutting rolled up beach mats. four of them. on the fourth one the blade broke. I didn't say my technique was prefect or superb or whatever, I said I was confident in it.... well acquainted.. but mistakes do happen.


and I never said I was a professional either. you're hanging words over my head that don't belong there.

ok now you're just sputtering off insults and being an utter horse's ass. I've had enough of this. you can sit here and lob insults all you want....... sit there and be childish. bye......

"A crap ass 440 stainless import would have survived a proper cut."

OH NO! 440 is crap! Holy geeze - I have been boonswaggled!

On another topic - anyone see that QVC video of the guy who broke a katana in half and stabbed himself? HAH!

Quoted: I lived in Japan for nearly five years. A true samari sword would cost tens of thousands of dollars and most likely be found in a mueseum under guard. Very rarely they come up for auction. You can find WWII officer's and NCO swords for a few hundred to about a thousand dollars but then these are not true samari swords.

+1.   14 years in Japan, ain't gonna happen.

Supposedly posted by Vold in july This is exactly what i'm doing. I'm studying iaido and kenjitsu on my own. I tried finding a dojo but everyone just laughed at me or blew me off (and no I didn't tell them why I was studying. all I did was ask for the nearest dojo. They were just plain RUDE, not at all the conduct of a true samurai.)

Voldemortist

If this really is the case, you could try calling the various kendo dojos in Texas.  i don't know where you are in Texas (and obviously it's a big state), but even if none of these dojos are in your area, I'm sure the closest one can tell you people in your area.  

Sorry - I don't know anything about iaido or kenjutsu dojo's (since kendo is what I do), but I imagine that most local kensi would be able to tell you where to find iaido (and some of these dojos do both).

Here you go (from the AUSKF page) -

Austin Kendo Doshikai
Austin, TX
Beginners
Th 7:30-8:30pm Su 12:30-1:30pm
Senior/Advance
Th 8:45-9:45pm Su 2:00-3:45pm
Contact: Alfred Walker (512)458-9077

Houston Budokan Inc.
4230 Mangum
Houston, TX
M F 7:00-8:30pm Sa 3:30-5:00pmpm
Contact: Darrel Craig (713)682-9014

University of Texas Kendo Association
University of Texas
Austin, TX
Beginners
Th 7:30-8:30pm Su 12:30-1:30pm
Senior/Advance
Th 8:45-9:45pm Su 2:00-3:45pm
Contact: Conrad Lee (512)346-7745

Dallas-Fort Worth Kendo & Iaido Kyokai
Greenhill School Cox Gymnasium
4141 Spring Valley Rd.
Addison Texas
Su 9:15am-12:15pm Iaido & Kendo
Th 7:15-9:15pm Iaido & Kendo
Tu 8:00-9:30pm Kendo (1st, 3rd of the month, senior students only)
Contact: Russell Ichimura (972)874-7978
David Cooper

El Paso Kendo Club at the Scorpion Yamabushi Dojo
2200 N. Yarbrough
(Inside Montwood Mall)
El Paso, TX
W F 6:30pm - 8:30pm
Sa 9:45am - 12:45pm
Contact: Patrick Stewart (915)849-1363

Muleshoe Kendo
Contact: Danny Kelly
1733 West Avenue, B
Muleshoe, TX 79347

River City Iaido & Kendo Kyokai
San Antonio College (dance studio)
1300 San Pedro Avenue
San Antonio, TX
Tu Th Iaido 7:15-9:30pm
Contact: Dr. Diane Mirro (210)710-0212
Joe Sheldon (210)532-1738

Black Dragon Academy (Seidokan)
4202 McPherson Road
Laredo, TX
Tu F 8:00-9:30pm
Contact: Masayuki Koyama (956)725-3604 or (956)727-0405

Don't forget Denton Dojo in Denton Texas.  The lead instructor there is one of the foremost practicioners of Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu Iaido in the US.  Dr. Diane Mirro also teaches in the San Antonio area.  

One thing to consider if dojo's react negatively to you is how you are presenting yourself to them.  If you come off as cocky, overly aggressive, insufficiently serious about the art and the consequences of it, and do not seem open to the intense discipline needed in the study of ANY martial art involving potentially deadly weapons, they may well try to dissuade you from associating yourself with their dojo.  Most sensei have also developed fairly fine tuned awareness of other people's emotions and intentions as well.  They can sense insincerity pretty quickly and if they see something they don't like, they will find a way to make you move on.

Consider the fact that you've managed to tick off quite a few people here in a very short period of time as an indicator that you may want to check your own attitude. It's possible you are not communicating your thoughts well and giving offense by miscommunication rather than intention.  But then again...

The measure of a good cut is not necessarily whether you can cut a wara, be it a true tatami wara or a beach mat wara, a swordsperson with a good cut mechanically, can cleanly cut newspaper with a bokken...really.  A sheet of newspaper, suspended between two clothespins.  Good technique will allow the iaidoka to slice the paper with a bokken.  Bad technique will tear it are merely pull it from the clothespins.  

Japanese swords are relatively intolerant of bad technique.  If you twist the cut in the wara because your hands aren't tracking on the same line, or if you fail to cut in the monouchi area of the blade and put enough draw into the cut, all these can damage a blade, even a masterwork nihonto can be bent or otherwise damaged by bad technique. Cutting hard targets is also abusive to the blade, green bamboo is one thing, but dry bamboo is another.  Water soaked wara are good, dry wara are bad.

There are a lot of reasons why your sword may have failed ranging from user error to the odd bad blade.  The fact that Bugei uses Paul Chen to manufacture their swords for them is a major vote of confidence though.  I've heard more negative inputs on Cold Steel swords than Chen swords, The only real criticism I have of the Chen swords I have handled is that the Chen factory chooses to use inlaid panels of Same rather than a full tsuka wrap, and the Tsuka Ito on their lower end swords isn't wrapped as tightly as it ought to be, so swords that see a lot of use tend to get looking a little shabby in the grip, but that's manageable simply by sending the tsuka off to a good tsukamaki to get re-wrapped.

Another criticism is that Chen swords aren't polished all that well, it's not the precise job you'll find on proper custom swords, so the geometry and crispness of the lines are not what a connoisseur is looking for.   It's a perfectly acceptable level of polish and precision for daily use however. Chen swords are not made to compete with modern Japanese traditional shinken, nor with the custom works of guys like Rick Barrett or Howard Clark.  They are meant to be functional and traditional production swords for people on a budget looking for a decent user sword.  

Back to the original topic.  Your average newbie to the sword world would be MUCH better served with an Angus Trim or Albion short sword.  You can get a damned good sword for under 500.00  That will cut and thrust well and is short enough to be handy. Katanas, single handed swords of the so-called "broadsword" variety and hand-and-ahalf longswords are a poor choice for a beginner and useless for indoor scenarios in modern structures. A Roman shortsword is almost ideal, likewise the shorter arming or riding swords of later europe.

Voldermortist


I studied Kyukushin Karate, Aiki Jutsu, and Okinawan Kobudo for near 9 years and I have some advice for you with respect to the martial arts.

First and foremost is humility and respect. You should come into a school without boasting of your knowledge or ability, only with a desire to learn. As mentioned above many sensei will not take a student that does not have the proper attitude. Remeber almost all martial arts at one time required all new students to go through a probationary period to prove there worth to the school. New students used to have to clean floors and watch class for the first year beofre they ever trained. Now this is not done, sensei just blows off folks with the improper attitute.

Second I would suggest an empty handed art at first. Look into one of the traditonal Ju Jutsu Koryu of Japan if you can find an instructor of one of the traditonal Ryuha "Schools". Traditional Ju Jutsu, not the brazillian stuff. You may also want to look into Aikido if you can not find a traditonal Ju Jutsu Ryuha.  This will teach you the foot work, distance and other subtle things you will need to devlop for swordsmanship. Remember young Samurai were trained as very young children in Ju Jutsu and other arts, they knew how to move defensively before they ever touched a sword.  It will also devlop your spirit and humility. Being pitched like a rag doll by someone half yours size will do that.  

I am not trying to offend just offer advice