Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: They should make exact replicas of the old body styles and use modern technology on the frames and drivetrain (as long as they don't pussify he engine) and give them a badass interior. That would be awesome I've been saying that for years. Wanna sell the past? How about recreating it instead of just paying lip service to it. We ALL want real muscle, classic looks, and performance without the flimsy, computer controlled impossible to fix modern shit.

They would probably still have the flimsy, computer controlled impossible to fix modern shit........but they would corner and stop MUCH better

My new muscle car is definitely going to have modern computer control.  Carbs and batch fire fuel injection are dead and should stay there.

I happen to think modern GM V8s are pretty easy to work on and fix...  It was the early computer controlled cars that any code the computer would throw due to a problem could be caused by a half dozen or so problems that were a bitch IMO...

It's getting to where now the computer will tell you which cylinder has a burnt spark plug wire without having to look for crying out loud...

Quoted: My new muscle car is definitely going to have modern computer control.  Carbs and batch fire fuel injection are dead and should stay there. I happen to think modern GM V8s are pretty easy to work on and fix...  It was the early computer controlled cars that any code the computer would throw due to a problem could be caused by a half dozen or so problems that were a bitch IMO...

I was fondly remembering the "good old carburetor days" until one came in and needed repair
(computers sure are habit forming)

I would rather work on any Mercedes than a modern American car

Quoted: I happen to think modern GM V8s are pretty easy to work on and fix...

Yeah, me too. I like how when you drive one, you get SES lights that tell you nothing, and even if you read the code, it points to a problem that has 12 possible culprits. Compound that with overly complex emissions systems, proprietary hardware all over the car that you need specialized tools for, and parts that until they hit the aftermarket are insanely expensive and I can see why you enjoy modern motor repair. It's really enjoyable spending hours unbuckling plastic coverings, crammed compartments filled with black boxes, access panels (requiring security bits) and finding that 2 of your 8 spark plugs require dropping the motor to access.

Certainly easier than those convoluted old pre-78 V8's and all that empty space under the hood and SAE bolts from tit to tail.....junkyards and auto parts full of replacements, and a troubleshooting method that most 12 year olds can grasp. Gosh, what horror days those used to be when you could work on your vehicle with tools that fit under the seat.

Paul said:

Not bad. I don't enjoy the new fashion stylings of most American cars but this is a nice tribute - like the new Mustang to the old one. Now if we can get Chevy to do a mid-60's 'vette tribute we're talking.

I agree 100%.  I have a '91 'Vette which I really like, and will probably upgrade to a C5 in the next year or 2, but a C7 with the mid year look would ..., well, it just would.  The C6 is a step back, I think, sorta like the coke bottle years.  

FWIW,  I like the new Mustangs, and the Challenger looks nice, but the Camaro leaves me cold as far as "retro."

I do like the combination of modern technology with modern art.  Good mix.

Rick

eah, me too. I like how when you drive one, you get SES lights that tell you nothing, and even if you read the code, it points to a problem that has 12 possible culprits. Compound that with overly complex emissions systems, proprietary hardware all over the car that you need specialized tools for, and parts that until they hit the aftermarket are insanely expensive and I can see why you enjoy modern motor repair. It's really enjoyable spending hours unbuckling plastic coverings, crammed compartments filled with black boxes, access panels (requiring security bits) and finding that 2 of your 8 spark plugs require dropping the motor to access. Certainly easier than those convoluted old pre-78 V8's and all that empty space under the hood and SAE bolts from tit to tail.....junkyards and auto parts full of replacements, and a troubleshooting method that most 12 year olds can grasp. Gosh, what horror days those used to be when you could work on your vehicle with tools that fit under the seat.

Don't give me that crap, if you have a decent code reader setup and even better for tuning a datalogger and laptop setup like I've got to get real time readings from the sensors to see exactly what's going on  it's worlds better than a non-computer controlled carb setup for tuning and fixing problems.  Only area I'll give you anything on is the open engine bays, half my stupid LT1 in my camaro is under the cowl.  But I still swapped in headers, can change the plugs, etc easily enough...

I've had a non-computer-controlled carbed Camaro for the last 5+ years before I got my newest one, I'm not going back...  The drivability, mileage, and other benefits far outweigh any of the headaches a modern car creates...  Maybe you can't or more likely don't want to deal with computers, but to heck with the "good ole days".  

Like I said it was the earlier computer setups for the most part that were iffy on codes with half a dozen possible causes, etc.  I've dealth with that on my older 3rdgen Camaros and it is pretty annoying, buts that what I call modern either.

Course joe-schmo can't tweak much with just his screw driver, but still...

When you can get your standard non-comp controlled carbed small block chevy to run as smoothly in all weather conditions, get as good mileage, pass emissions as easily, and put down the 340-350 rear wheel hp on a chassis dyno that a LS2 does factory stock maybe I'll check the "old school" carbed engine option on my new Camaro...

ATTENTION GM: if we wanted to drive ugly shit your fucking retro 40s pickup 'thing' would be flying off the showroom floor. buy a fucking clue.


Tex: If your talking about the SSR I agree. If your talking about the HHR they are selling as fast as they come off the transport.

The Camaro is very 69 looking in the hood and rear quarter panel area but please that nose has to go. I hate the coporate "nose" Chevy is putting on everything.

This just confirms my belief that Detroit is doomed to crash and burn.  Those guys just can't seem to put down the crack pipe.
The insurance industry killed these things off in the late sixties/early seventies and they'll do it again if high fuel prices don't do it first.
Meanwhile, the Japanese are going to be working overtime to build enough hybrids to meet the waiting lists.

Quoted: I don't want any luxuries in the new prodution muscle car of my dreams. I just want a big damn engine.

Indeed.

Give me engine.

Give me a good transmission.

Give me good brakes.

Give me a reliable suspension.

I don't want leather seats.

I don't want heated seats.

I don't want power everything.

Give me a powerful car with decent handling, good breaking, and comfortable seats and I will be happy.

Quoted: Did you notice the concept Challenger and concept Camaro have the same fugly rims and tires.  Some company must be giving these away for free. I was going to lay down 30k on a restored 70's Challenger but if the new one is decent I may have to rethink that. Fritz

Get both.

The new one looks cool.

The old one is going to be cool forever.

Quoted: So let me get this right. Gas prices are up, rising, and will probably remain relatively high or rise again next year. And now Detroit decides its a good idea to come out with some muscle cars. Geniuses.  All of them.   And ppl here apoligize for them going bankrupt...

With modern technology they can squeeze fantastic mileage out of these babies. One reason the muscle car has been gone so long is precisely because the companies didn't have the technology to make power without sucking incredible ammounts of gas.

With modern technology they can produce cars that will smoke the tires when you stomp it, but that will only sip lightly from the gas tank when driving normally. Chrysler, for instance, has a system for their 8 cylinder engines where only 4 cylinders are active unless you have a certain ammount of throttle engaged. That's how they can make a 400 horsepower car that gets 25 plus MPG.

You should keep up with the advances in automotive technology. It really is fascinating what they can do these days.

Quoted: I've been saying that for years. Wanna sell the past? How about recreating it instead of just paying lip service to it. We ALL want real muscle, classic looks, and performance without the flimsy, computer controlled impossible to fix modern shit.

In fairness I must point out that one is far less likely to spend hours trying to figure out a problem with a computer controlled fuel injected engine than they are an old carb engine. Ever tried rebuilding a carb before? No fun.

I prefer the computer controlled stuff. I can connect a scanner, have the car's brain tell me which sensor is bad, replace the sensor, and then I am on my way. Yes modern engine compartments are more cramped, but that is because they are trying to fit more and more into less and less space. It is no fun to remove the right front tire to change the battery, but such is life. A decent code scanner and access to TSBs will usually allow you to fix any problem that you run into with modern cars.

Quoted: Quoted: So let me get this right. Gas prices are up, rising, and will probably remain relatively high or rise again next year. And now Detroit decides its a good idea to come out with some muscle cars. Geniuses.  All of them.   And ppl here apoligize for them going bankrupt... With modern technology they can squeeze fantastic mileage out of these babies. One reason the muscle car has been gone so long is precisely because the companies didn't have the technology to make power without sucking incredible ammounts of gas. With modern technology they can produce cars that will smoke the tires when you stomp it, but that will only sip lightly from the gas tank when driving normally. Chrysler, for instance, has a system for their 8 cylinder engines where only 4 cylinders are active unless you have a certain ammount of throttle engaged. That's how they can make a 400 horsepower car that gets 25 plus MPG. You should keep up with the advances in automotive technology. It really is fascinating what they can do these days.

uhhh GM has this too (cylinder dropping) or whatervert they call it.

TAG

Quoted: god that camaro look like ass

+1


if only i could afford that shelby...

Quoted: So let me get this right. Gas prices are up, rising, and will probably remain relatively high or rise again next year. And now Detroit decides its a good idea to come out with some muscle cars. Geniuses.  All of them.   And ppl here apoligize for them going bankrupt...

Yeah.  Here we have another example of the genius of the Motor City braintrust as they come up with a strategic plan to corner a tiny niche market while the Japanese continue to strengthen their grip on the  primary market.
I'm commuting 72 miles a day in an American car that gets about 23mpg.  I could easily find an American made car that gets 28mpg or maybe even 33mpg.  The problem is, this is no where near good enough.  I want a car that gets 50mpg.  Everybody I know that owns a Toyota Prius is getting that.

The muscle cars are great for people who never owned an exciting car and want one now.  I have nothing against that and I understand it; I owned a Pontiac GTO back when I was in High School (I was a fortunate kid).  For everyone like me who has gotten all of that out of their system and for everybody else who needs a practical car (almost everybody) Detroit has once again proven that they are not up to the task.

Quoted: Give me a powerful car with decent handling, good breaking, and comfortable seats and I will be happy.

+1!!

And give me mo' money ta pay for the gas!

Quoted: Quoted: I happen to think modern GM V8s are pretty easy to work on and fix... Yeah, me too. I like how when you drive one, you get SES lights that tell you nothing, and even if you read the code, it points to a problem that has 12 possible culprits. Compound that with overly complex emissions systems, proprietary hardware all over the car that you need specialized tools for, and parts that until they hit the aftermarket are insanely expensive and I can see why you enjoy modern motor repair. It's really enjoyable spending hours unbuckling plastic coverings, crammed compartments filled with black boxes, access panels (requiring security bits) and finding that 2 of your 8 spark plugs require dropping the motor to access. Certainly easier than those convoluted old pre-78 V8's and all that empty space under the hood and SAE bolts from tit to tail.....junkyards and auto parts full of replacements, and a troubleshooting method that most 12 year olds can grasp. Gosh, what horror days those used to be when you could work on your vehicle with tools that fit under the seat.

Maybe you haven't noticed but the average 12yr old has a better understanding of computers than 50% of the worlds population.  Hell, doing a diagnosis on a OBDII car is not much unlike playing a Gameboy.
Why would you still long for the days of getting 14mpg if your lucky and adjusting you carb when it gets cold out?  Yes, a new car is 10x more complicated than one from the 1970's, but did that car have GPS, or even tell you that your car was running lean, let alone automaticly adjust itself to stop from burning up its cylinders?

Quoted: I think the new challenger looks awesome

I agree.

The wheels are putrid, however. That can be easily fixed, however.

Cleatus & John_Wayne777: about 10 years ago GM Cadilac had this same V-4-6-8 technology where they turn-on/off the cylinders depending on demand, and my little sis' FIL bought one of them and they had and under-the-hood engine fire on a trip from L.A. to S.F.  GM took 3 days to fix it because the engine was so new, GM put them up in a hotel.  I think in the rush to get technology to market, GM doesn't do enough testing and research.  This incident was a real black-eye to the prestigious top-of the line(used to be anyways)  Cadillac division.

Quoted: Here's the pics of the silver Camaro at Detriot, the red one in the other thread is a "push" car (not as finished, not a running car) at the LA show.  In some of the earlier pics you can't see what a fastback design the car has, with big strong "shoulders" going on and a fairly rounded style to the rear.  I think it's possibly the sweetest looking Camaro yet and I will be driving one, now if only they'll announce a strong push for a quick release...

I am not a GM guy by any stretch. Actually, I dislike virtually everything about the company.

But that is one beautiful, kick-ass design.

I think I just peed a little.

The muscle car comeback brings a tear to my eye. I'm tired of minivans. I'm tired of SUVs. I'm tired of marketing drones appealing to metrosexuals, castrated men and soccer moms. I'm tired of front wheel drive. I'm tired of "Import Performance". And for God's sake, I don't want a fucking Prius.

I bought a new Mustang. Muscle cars are coming back. The Challenger is coming back. The Camaro is returning. All will be well with the world again, shortly.

Quoted: They should make exact replicas of the old body styles and use modern technology on the frames and drivetrain (as long as they don't pussify he engine) and give them a badass interior.

Where the fuck have you been?

Have you seen the 2005/2006 Mustang? The Challenger concept? They are almost freaking identical.

Newest Camaro Pics:

Quoted: [rant]Apparently, these fuckers feel the need to put yard-goddamn-wide wheels on every fucking vehicle they throw out though. [/rant]

You need the wide rim because when cornering, the tire wall will flex and add roll to the car that cant be controlled or predicted (since they dont know what tire you're going to slap on the rim), so they give you a giant rim, less tire flex and they know exactly how much the suspension can flex, so they can predict rollovers and the like.

Kharn

Not to rain on everyone's parade but I think the USA car manufactures should work on designing a reliable vehicle that can last.  Most of this stuff from Detroit is based on smoke & mirror looks.  What good is looks when the car won't last 50 months for the duration of 72 month loan.  The car manufacturers are trying to relive their former glory days in 1960s-1970s, and possibly 1980s.  Just look at the Consumer Reprot survey of the reilability of USA buitl and designed vehicles, lots of black marks, pretty dismal.  Myself? I can't afford to put in 20-30 grand into a vehicle that will only last about 5 years.

Quoted: bradbarnett.net/mustangs/shows/nyias05/wallpaper/5.jpg I think I just peed a little.

I have some personal pics of this car if you're interested.  I posted them a while back, but this seems like a good chance to see 'em again.

Quoted: Quoted: bradbarnett.net/mustangs/shows/nyias05/wallpaper/5.jpg I think I just peed a little. I have some personal pics of this car if you're interested.  I posted them a while back, but this seems like a good chance to see 'em again.

By all means, bud. Post 'em!

Quoted: Cleatus & John_Wayne777: about 10 years ago GM Cadilac had this same V-4-6-8 technology where they turn-on/off the cylinders depending on demand, and my little sis' FIL bought one of them and they had and under-the-hood engine fire on a trip from L.A. to S.F.  GM took 3 days to fix it because the engine was so new, GM put them up in a hotel.  I think in the rush to get technology to market, GM doesn't do enough testing and research.  This incident was a real black-eye to the prestigious top-of the line(used to be anyways)  Cadillac division.

Comparing todays technology of selective ignition with that of the old 4-6-8 is a bit like comparing a carb to todays injection.  

I drive a Hemi Magnum and love the 28 MPG I get on the highway.  

I don't love the 14 around town but it is just too much fun to nail it comming away from a red light.

I don't agree with the idea that $2.50 is cheap for gas but I certainly don't think that this is a reason for knocking high HP retros.  I will trade my pickup for a Challenger as soon as they are out.  

I have no Idea what the F**k GM is thingking with that Camaro Mockup but I will reserve final judgemant until I see one in person.

Couple more of the new Camaro and Press Release:













DETROIT – Combining dramatic design and exciting performance, the Chevrolet Camaro Concept recaptures the spirit of one of the most popular sport coupes of all time and redefines the Camaro for new generations of fans.

The Camaro Concept embodies the performance and passion that have made first-generation Camaros some of the most sought-after collector cars, updating the formula with a fuel-efficient powertrain, sophisticated chassis and contemporary design execution. The goal is to make the sport coupe relevant to younger enthusiasts while retaining its appeal to its current fans.

“Millions of people of all ages fell in love with the Camaro for all of the right reasons,” said Ed Welburn, GM vice president, global design. “Camaros were beautiful to look at and offered performance that could rival expensive European GTs. Yet they were practical enough to drive every day and priced within the reach of many new car buyers.”

Though only a show car at this point, the Camaro Concept is intended to explore customer reaction to design and engineering elements that might lead to an all-new version of the Camaro.

The long hood, short deck and wide stance of the Camaro Concept leave no doubt that it is a serious performance car. Those looks are backed up by a 400-horsepower aluminum small-bock V-8, a six-speed manual transmission, and a sophisticated chassis with four-wheel independent suspension.

Like its forebears, the Camaro Concept would be practical enough for everyday use. It features fuel-saving features like Active Fuel Management™ cylinder deactivation technology, yielding highway fuel economy of 30 mpg or better. Its overall size is a comfortable fit for city streets and suburban parking lots, and its back seat provides occasional seating for two adults.

Lean, muscular design

Because of Camaro’s powerful heritage, the GM Design team chose a theme that pays homage to the original Camaro, while being instantly recognizable as an all-new car.

Said Bob Boniface, director of the Warren Advanced Design Studio, “The fact that the Camaro has been out of production for a number of years made it particularly important that the Camaro Concept honors the Camaro heritage in the right way.”

The 1969 Camaro, considered by many to be the best first-generation design, was a significant inspiration. But as GM design teams in Warren, Mich., worked on alternatives for the Camaro Concept, they also turned to the latest Corvette and to aircraft like the YF-22, seeking a design that encompasses the spirit that made the 1969 Camaro great, but interprets that spirit in a fresh, exciting way.

“The overall proportions, long hood and powerful fender forms say, ‘This is a front-engine, rear-wheel drive performance vehicle,’ ” said Tom Peters, design director, rear-wheel drive performance cars. The prominent front grille and hood bulge hint at the power of the Corvette-inspired V-8 engine. Large wheels and tires, exposed high-performance brakes and prominent fender shapes signal that the Camaro Concept has the handling and braking to go with the powertrain.

The cockpit of the Camaro nestles between sharply defined fender forms, a design element inspired by fighter planes and the new Corvette. And like any high-performance vehicle, the clean, purposeful design is integral to the aesthetic. “The Camaro Concept isn’t just a styled shape,” said Peters. “The design incorporates what the vehicle needs to perform to its optimum level.”

The same purposeful design is reflected in the interior of the Camaro Concept. The gauges and splash of orange trim hint at classic first-generation Camaros, but the overall design and execution reflect the no-nonsense functionality that drivers expect from a high-performance Chevrolet sports car.

Performance for the real world

The Camaro Concept features the latest generation of GM’s legendary small-block V-8. The 6.0-liter LS2 engine features an aluminum block and heads for light weight, and Active Fuel Management™, which shuts off four cylinders to save fuel when the engine is lightly loaded. This concept version of the LS2 is rated at 400 horsepower, yet it could also deliver more than 30 mpg at highway speeds.

The Camaro Concept’s six-speed manual transmission provides a wide spread of ratios for aggressive acceleration off the line, confident passing and merging and efficient highway cruising.

Modern sports cars are about more than just straight-line speed, so the Camaro Concept features a sophisticated rear-wheel drive chassis. Its independent front and rear suspension features progressive-rate springs and gas-pressurized dampers. Four-wheel vented disc brakes with 14-inch rotors provide confident stopping under all conditions.

Enhancing both the performance and appearance of the Camaro Concept are unique five-spoke cast alloy wheels, 21 inches in the front and 22 inches in the rear.

An American icon

Designed in the mid-1960s, the first-generation Camaro captured the optimism of an era. The Baby Boomers were in their teens, rock-and-roll and Motown ruled the airwaves, and American culture was sweeping the globe.

Like the Impala, Chevelle and Sting Ray, the new Camaro showcased Chevy’s strength of bringing stylish, high-quality cars to a mainstream audience. Its dramatic proportions and graceful lines recalled both the Corvette and the Italian Gran Turismo cars of the era. And its powertrain lineup, which soon included both the potent Z-28 small block and big block 396s and 427s, gave the Camaro the performance to go with its looks.

But what really made the Camaro an American icon was that it was accessible to millions. Chevy sold more than 699,000 Camaros in its first three years. So for every Z-28 taking the checkered flag at the track, there were thousands of less exotic Camaros cruising the drive-ins, picking up the groceries, or taking the family on vacation.

“The Camaro Concept is designed to have that same broad appeal, with unmistakable style, spirit and performance,” said Welburn.

Vehicle type: two-door, four-passenger rear-wheel drive sport coupe

Wheelbase (in / mm): 110.5 / 2806

Length (in / mm): 186.2 / 4730

Width (in / mm): 79.6 / 2022

Height (in / mm): 53 / 1344

Track (in / mm): 63.8 / 1620 front; 63.3 / 1607 rear

Engine: 6.0-L V-8 LS-2, 400 hp / 298 kw, with Active Fuel Management™

Transmission: six-speed manual T56

Suspension: four-wheel independent: MacPherson strut front, multilink rear, progressive rate coil springs, gas-pressurized dampers

Brakes: four-wheel disc, 14” rotors with four-piston calipers

Wheels: cast aluminum, 21” front, 22” rear

Tires: 275/30R21 front, 305/30R22 rear

O'tay...
























Edited to add:
You don't want this particular one.  I made a mess on the seat when I sat in it.

I'm glad these cars will be making serious horsepower but what about the weight?  From what I understand the Shelby will be weighing north of 3700lbs just like the GTO and from the pics of the Camaro I'm guessing it won't be a lightweight either.  Compare that with the jaw dropping performance of the new z06 Corvette that weighs in at 3100lbs

Quoted: I'm glad these cars will be making serious horsepower but what about the weight?  From what I understand the Shelby will be weighing north of 3700lbs just like the GTO and from the pics of the Camaro I'm guessing it won't be a lightweight either.  Compare that with the jaw dropping performance of the new z06 Corvette that weighs in at 3100lbs

Preliminary numbers I'm hearing are 3800 lbs at least, more like 3900ish for the GT500 regular hardtop (it will be heavier than the previous Cobra which was 3700ish IIRC).  That's going to damper the performance some, but 475hp is niiiiccee...  I had thought it would be coming in under $40k from previous news, but at the unviel someone was quoted as "mid 40s" for the starting price, OUCH.

The Challenger is the boat of all these with 4100 lbs to lug, it's also as long/longer than the freakin Magnum wagon for crying out loud.  When sitting near some of the others the Challenger is going to look old an bloated I fear.

The Camaro is more up in the air as to what it might weigh. It is shorter than the previous 3500 lb Camaro by at least 6 inches if my memory is working.  However it adds IRS and will have a bit beefier chassis.  The GTO comes in around 3600lbs and should be bigger with a similar chassis and also IRS, so I'm figuring the Camaro will come in at/under 3600 lbs as well, but that's just speculation.  I think it will be a little heavier than the Mustang GT but it will have to the tune of 100+ more HP so it should stomp GT ass, and run w/ the more powerful GT500 due to the weight difference...

We'll see, but I'm pretty disappointed w/ the tank that the Challenger is...  

The GT500 is also somewhat disappointing due to the weight and cost, I really think the 6.0l+, 400+ hp (I'm figuring the 6.2l that will likely be in it by production time will make 425ish...) Camaro will run right with the GT500 for cheaper.  That is assuming the GT500 isn't underrated and doesn't really put down some crazy rwhp numbers stock though which wouldn't surprise me at all (I'm halfway expecting 440-450+ rwhp on a chassis dyno which will blow away the 475 crank rating, well see...)  But then again I'm a Camaro guy so perhaps I'm biased somewhat.  I dig the big output Cobras though so I'm definitely not slamming them.  The power they will put down with some relatively minor inexpensive mods will be absolutely crazy.  I'd bet good money 500+ rwhp is a pulley, exhaust, and computer mod away for the GT500...

Quoted: Quoted: I think the new challenger looks awesome img343.imageshack.us/img343/4685/challenger8fe.jpg You got that right. Saw that on CNBC this morning. From the interview of the Chrysler Pres, they may tweak it a bit and release it in a couple of years. Yes its got a HEMI

+1

The Challenger looks awesome.  The Camaro is alright looking but they need to scale the nose back a tit.  The Mustang, looks like a newer mustang with different hood and engine.  I've never really liked the newer mustangs.

Quoted: We'll see, but I'm pretty disappointed w/ the tank that the Challenger is...

The way I look at it, it will be the ONLY new car that truly offers gearheads the old musclecar size.

I'm sure alot of people will look at it and appreciate its size.

Quoted: Quoted: We'll see, but I'm pretty disappointed w/ the tank that the Challenger is... The way I look at it, it will be the ONLY new car that truly offers gearheads the old musclecar size. I'm sure alot of people will look at it and appreciate its size.

I'm pretty sure it is actually bigger in almost all measurements, and is as heavy if not heavier than the original.  I don't know, I don't like the idea of a puny little musclecar (although the low weight would be nice), but 4100 lbs, longer than the 4 door LX cars including the wagon??  That seems excessive for their ponycar fighter.  And that's just for looks/performance, I imagine MPG will suffer as well.  

Different strokes for different folks though, perhaps with the Camaro and Mustang being about the same size it will be nice for many to have a bigger option.

I like the look of both the Challenger and the Camaro.  I think the roofline needs to be raised slighty on the Camaro though.  

The nose of the new Camaro looks like excrement...... What are those guys thinking. Make it look like a Foose 69 or something. Whats the point of the point of that nose?

Yechhhhhh.

M4-AK

Strong arguments made for the camaro, but I will take the Challenger


Under the hood of the concept car was a 6.1-liter Hemi good for 425 horsepower, Chrysler said. Armed with a six-speed manual, the concept car will go from a standing start to 60 mph in just 4.5 seconds; look for a 13-second quarter mile.

Quoted: Couple more of the new Camaro and Press Release: www.autoweek.com/files/specials/2006_detroit/chevy/camaro/images/07.jpg www.autoweek.com/files/specials/2006_detroit/chevy/camaro/images/17.jpg www.autoweek.com/files/specials/2006_detroit/chevy/camaro/images/14.jpg www.autoweek.com/files/specials/2006_detroit/chevy/camaro/images/20.jpg

It looks more attractive in that color....

Quoted: Quoted: I'm glad these cars will be making serious horsepower but what about the weight?  From what I understand the Shelby will be weighing north of 3700lbs just like the GTO and from the pics of the Camaro I'm guessing it won't be a lightweight either.  Compare that with the jaw dropping performance of the new z06 Corvette that weighs in at 3100lbs

The Challenger is the boat of all these with 4100 lbs to lug, it's also as long/longer than the freakin Magnum wagon for crying out loud.  When sitting near some of the others the Challenger is going to look old an bloated I fear.

The Camaro is more up in the air as to what it might weigh. It is shorter than the previous 3500 lb Camaro by at least 6 inches if my memory is working.  However it adds IRS and will have a bit beefier chassis.  The GTO comes in around 3600lbs and should be bigger with a similar chassis and also IRS, so I'm figuring the Camaro will come in at/under 3600 lbs as well, but that's just speculation.  I think it will be a little heavier than the Mustang GT but it will have to the tune of 100+ more HP so it should stomp GT ass, and run w/ the more powerful GT500 due to the weight difference..
We'll see, but I'm pretty disappointed w/ the tank that the Challenger is...  



Nice to hope, but GM is turning out some seriously bloated cars. the Pontiac G6 (an accord sized FWD car) weights over 3400 lbs!  No way the camaro is going to come in under 3700lbs...

Quoted: Strong arguments made for the camaro, but I will take the Challenger img295.imageshack.us/img295/6105/zazzzz3cc.png Under the hood of the concept car was a 6.1-liter Hemi good for 425 horsepower, Chrysler said. Armed with a six-speed manual, the concept car will go from a standing start to 60 mph in just 4.5 seconds; look for a 13-second quarter mile. img297.imageshack.us/img297/8100/rearquarter7zv.jpg img297.imageshack.us/img297/3409/spyheadon2hs.jpg

I have to say that I'm impressed with that Challenger concept. Again, swap the wheels, though.

Quoted: Strong arguments made for the camaro, but I will take the Challenger img295.imageshack.us/img295/6105/zazzzz3cc.png Under the hood of the concept car was a 6.1-liter Hemi good for 425 horsepower, Chrysler said. Armed with a six-speed manual, the concept car will go from a standing start to 60 mph in just 4.5 seconds; look for a 13-second quarter mile. img297.imageshack.us/img297/8100/rearquarter7zv.jpg img297.imageshack.us/img297/3409/spyheadon2hs.jpg

That is badass.


*drool*

Now if only Chevy did what they did for the Challenger, for the 1970 Chevelle.......OH MY GOD.  I would do WTF ever I could to buy one.

I would happily take any one of those cars.  I really like the Camaro, I don't know why, but it is probably my favorite of the bunch.  I do agree that the nose needs some work (as well as the rear judging by what I saw from one of the photos), but the rest of the car is beautiful.

Cars & Bikes forum anyone?

There is already a thread on the (2008?) Challenger and (2009?) Camaro there.

Cars and Bikes

Challenger thread
Camaro thread

Quoted: Quoted: So let me get this right. Gas prices are up, rising, and will probably remain relatively high or rise again next year. And now Detroit decides its a good idea to come out with some muscle cars. Geniuses.  All of them.   And ppl here apoligize for them going bankrupt... Yeah.  Here we have another example of the genius of the Motor City braintrust as they come up with a strategic plan to corner a tiny niche market while the Japanese continue to strengthen their grip on the  primary market. I'm commuting 72 miles a day in an American car that gets about 23mpg.  I could easily find an American made car that gets 28mpg or maybe even 33mpg.  The problem is, this is no where near good enough.  I want a car that gets 50mpg.  Everybody I know that owns a Toyota Prius is getting that. The muscle cars are great for people who never owned an exciting car and want one now.  I have nothing against that and I understand it; I owned a Pontiac GTO back when I was in High School (I was a fortunate kid).  For everyone like me who has gotten all of that out of their system and for everybody else who needs a practical car (almost everybody) Detroit has once again proven that they are not up to the task.

Dude, why even post on a muscle car thread? Practical cars are BORING. If you need one get one, but some people have wanted a muscle car with modern enhancements forever. Go start a YUGO thread somewhere

Quoted: I wonder if that is a ram air scoop, or something that should have lights cycling back and forth...

You mean cowl induction? Ram air would be the other way around.

The camaro looks kinda like shelbys GR-1 concept car.

Quoted: Quoted: I wonder if that is a ram air scoop, or something that should have lights cycling back and forth... You mean cowl induction? Ram air would be the other way around. The camaro looks kinda like shelbys GR-1 concept car. i29.photobucket.com/albums/c274/dugedug/Ford-Shelby-GR-1-Concept-Carroll-Sh.jpg i29.photobucket.com/albums/c274/dugedug/Ford-Shelby-GR-1-Concept-RS-1280x96.jpg

He is talking about the little slit in the high front bumper area........right below where the hood latch is.....