This is by far one of the best ideas I have heard in a long time! Please keep me posted...
I would love the chance to donate a hundred or two. Please email me with info as to where I can send a donation. My email address is [email protected]. My regards to the brilliant mind  behind this!

i love this idea, it would show the sheeple that we honor our dead, as much as we do life.

I like the idea of putting $50.00 into the pot and have rifle manufacturers contributs as well.  I'll put up $50.00 to have an AR15.Com logo on the side.

It's not a "beemer".  That's what their motorcycles are called.  The cars are called "bimmer".  And what's wrong with BMW?  They make the best engines in the world, not to mention jet engines and their being the provider of engines for Rolls Royce.  Hey, if their engines are good enough to power the Red Baron's Fokker to shoot down a sh*tload of allied planes, they're good enough to take me to the mall!

As a point of order, and in order to help spread some esoteric information, Beamers are BMW motorcycles.  Bimmers are BMW cars. [:D]

As far as using an American made car, there isn't one that I can think of that would be suited to being the base of a touring car.

God Bless Texas

Any thoughts to Drag Racing? We have a local guy here "Bob Cosby". He's a Chief in the navy that runs NMRA Factory stock racing.

He took a 99 Mustang Cobra. And turned it into the fastest factory stock Cobra in racing. He has set numerous records and racing it is fairly cheap. I would venture to say he has less then 5,000 dollars in modifications to it.

Solid axle swap, Chip, Long tubes, Drag radials, weight reduction, and few others.

He has been getting major press in all of the performance mustang magazines. I know a while back he was looking for sponsors. He is also bringing his old 88 mustang Coupe out of retirement, and plans to race that this year.

Drag racing can be cheap if you run minimal mod classes. Unlike the higher class's where I have put over 10,000 into my Mustangs chassis alone. Cage, Frame ties, chassis supports etc.

Just a thought at another style of racing.

-Kc

Gret Idea!!
I love racing..
Just keep in mind if we do get to paint a rifle on the hood.....
Colt manufacturing CO. INC. won't get the publicity..

This is my first post here and I am in for the $50.00 to sponsor a car.  Whatever, wherever.  Anything, would be some more exposure.  Later, Luavul

No matter what we sponsor, I'll donate $2 to pay for the AR15.com sticker that should be stuck to the dash in plain view of the 'in-cockpit' camera.  

HELL i would give money just to shut the mouth of IBIAFA  ...  damn you  your'e killing the easter bunny,tooth fairy,rolled it but never smoked it(CLINTON ) fairy,,,,   Hell we don't need a race car we will just get a double decker bus, you can put more logos on it ,and damned if you can slide around us on the curves!  Maybe we could just have a tractor pull?  And then again maybe with the same ammount of money our sponser would put our logo-AR/15.com  on their car?...just a thought........

Sorry ED didn't get there in time to hear your post,  yes i'll help with what ever it takes to get the ar15 on some kind o car..   bob cole

I'm not a race fan, so I don't know how the names of the sponsors are usually placed on the vehicle, but how about "AR15.COM" on the hood and a rifle on either side.  I think a six foot assault rifle with a 30-rounder would be a camera magnet.

Can someone do a photoshop project and try to give us a general idea what the car may look like?

So it does not have to be LAST.............jew.

Ok, its been awhile, but I do declare that might be considered anti semetic, or am I wrong?  

Or are you using jew as a slang term for Beemer lover?

Sorry if this has been covered before; didn't go through all the posts and haven't been following the thread.

But, another possibility is sponsoring a motorcycle racer. I know a number of them shoot and are on high-visibility teams which attract quite a bit of press. Most of them are supercross/motocross racers; at least one that I know of road races. Again, these are the pros and command lots of ink as well as TV time.

While most of those guys already have major sponsorship packages locked up since the seasons are already underway, thus relegating any potential AR15.com logos to a fairly small size, lower-tier sponsorship is generally something that they can fit somewhere on the bike, helmet and/or body. Just a thought. [:)]

A possible sponsorship for one driver/car in one series get rolling, and just when the idea starts to gel, and you can begin to smell a little money, here comes another pair of hands on the wheel.

IBIAFR, you may be the greatest guy in the world. You no doubt know a lot about the sport and many people involved. One point we agree on is that the operating costs are easy to underestimate.

But step back and read all your posts on this topic.

Is there any hint that you're a little TOO helpful, maybe a tad overbearing in your trashing of the original proposal?  And pushing the idea of Trans-Am, where you evidently know/ are friends of people who would love to have the money?  I know [u]I've[/u] heard enough.

Notice I didn't say that you would benefit from the deal.

So in spite of your generous offer, I think that lacking a consensus to change anything or even a 'second opinion' on what you say, you've said your piece, now let it rest.

If the stakeholders want to pick up your idea, they will.

Personally, if I do decide to contribute, it will be earmarked for the original proposal.

For the good of those kicking in money, it should in each case be explicit that they are either A) invested in the touring car or B)don't care what kind of car it's spent on.

prk,

People have a right to know where their money is going. I felt I was doing a service in explaining the reality of sponsorship as it related to the Touring Car series and World Challenge as a whole. I am sorry that I have an in depth knowledge based on personal experience in this subject and that I am in constant contact with people from the SCCA. When the discussion was about getting firearms manufacturers involved and trying to raise $50,000 or more it was a different story. There was discussion early on about picking up another driver (with a terrible 7 top 10's in 46 starts with no top 5's at all) in the GT series as well. I offered some other options that would have received excellent coverage versus the none at all options being pursued. At $5,000 the whole equation changes. Everything I have stated is true and time will prove it as such.

I am sorry for raining on everyone's parade with a dose of reality. I find it interesting that no questions were asked about the merits or veracity of anything I posted.

The fact that no one seems concerned that he isn't even at the season opening race this weekend is telling. I didn't go looking for that piece of information but when I was called by trackside registration / timing and scoring with a technical question I asked if he had registered.  

BTW it isn't about "would love" to have the money and I resent your "TOO helpful" and "smell a little money" innuendos. It is about not wasting a fantastic opportunity. A car covered in firearms manufacturers in a series with real television coverage would have been noteworthy. Like I said at the current dollar amount it doesn't matter anyway.

IBIAFR, you need to read Ed's posts.  We are not looking to sponsor Walter, but a rookie named John Bosch.  Which one is not registered?  If it is Walter, then you are barking up the wrong tree.  Our small amount of money will go further in Touring Cars than it would it Trans Am as TA is more expensive, period.  It's called stretching your dollar.  As I type this, I am getting ready to leave for Sebring to work corners.  The GT and Touring cars are much more entertaining than TA.  TA is good, but I like the fact the the Speedvision cars are modified street cars as are the GT class cars in ALMS, though not as highly modified.

LARRYG I can read.



This was in the context of raising more than the $50,000 for the John Bosch car.  You were saying????

My point has been from the begining that if you are going to spend that kind of money it would be a ridiculous waste to spend it in World Challenge when there was potential for CBS network TV coverage in Trans-Am.  At less than $5,000 you are correct it would not buy anything in Trans-Am.  I am sure I could get a team to get it on their rear quarter but at this point with the reception and lack of reading for content everyone has exhibited it isn't worth me asking the favor.

Neither of the drivers are registered for the race as of late yesterday 3/12/02.  

EDITED TO ADD:

John Bosch arrived this morning 3/13/02.  In the morning session he was 33rd fastest in Touring Class out of 35 cars posting times and is 28 seconds slower per lap than the current fastest time in his class.  He has plenty of time to improve upon this in the final practice session and in qualifying tomorrow.

EDITED TO ADD:

John Bosch qualified 28th in Touring Class on 3/14/02 and in the middle of the rookies in the field having 9 rookies in front of him and 5 behind.  Walter Swick arrived today and qualified 17th out of 20 in the GT class.  The races are tomorrow.

If you can get close to the money needed I would kick in 50, it owuld be well worth it to see that on national TV.

IBIAFR ---

I did read your content, notwithstanding the distraction of your attitude.

It's OK with me if you are offended by those of us who misinterpreted your verbose sharing of "in depth knowledge based on personal experience" to be like the proverbial bull (even a sincere bull) in a china shop, or as a friend once called it, practicing "moosery".

See, part of the lousy reception you got is because you were so anxious to save us from ourselves, you posted lengthy messages with a tone of superiority. You don't have to do that.

Even in your last reply you couldn't avoid indirectly saying right how you are and hinting that you're in the company of lesser beings.

If you find yourself encountering stubborness to your input, try looking inward and actually listening to others for a change.  Then maybe you won't have to yell so much to be heard.

prk,

Please excuse my frustration. The reality is that most of the comments made in this thread had no more foundation in fact than the writings of the Mall Ninja. I mean that as a JOKE but it also serves to perhaps convey how what I was reading affected me. The expectations that members were piling on to Edward's original proposal were not realistic. I was late in finding this thread and what I read disturbed me greatly. I mean look at it for what it is. At the time of my first post co-sponsoring Walt Swick was still on the table. The three guys he out qualified yesterday are rookies and Walt has been racing World Challenge for 10 years. Rule of thumb in this type of racing is that if you drive a clean race you finish in the top 10 and stumble into the top 5 on occasion. Walt has 46 World Challenge starts with just 7 top tens and no top 5's. In fields of +/- 20 cars that is just plain ridiculous.

All of this has changed as no manufacturer support was obtained thus significantly reducing the dollars involved.  Now any sponsorship is at the level of personal curiosity and entertainment for the contributors them selves.  This is fine and I applaud anyone who is a fan of motorsports on any level.  I have moved on to supporting John Bosch in his quest and wish you would too.

Furthermore I do not see a problem with "I AM SORRY I HAVE (you conveniently left that part out) in depth knowledge based on personal experience." That is a statement of fact and does nothing to disparage any of the people here. I think you are grabbing at straws because you have no facts to dispute what I have offered. In the absence of facts you have resorted to using terms like "moosery." Putting it in quotes and attributing it to "a friend" does nothing to lessen the impact.  If you have no facts and would like to make a personal attack, then be my guest.  MY FEELINGS will not be hurt.

For not wanting to see the good people of this board taken for a ride (no pun intended), I apologize. My main concern though all of this is that everyone seemed to be being sold a bill of goods. Edward Avila is trying to do good for the board and firearms as a whole. He was told about the 58 million households the World Challenge series races are available in. What about how many of those households watch the races? Not to mention the race coverage never includes cars not at the front because of the limited time of the broadcasts. What I am writing here is theoretically available to billions of people worldwide provided they turn on a PC and surf to this particular post. Get my point?

If at any point you would like point out where anything I said was incorrect, I would be happy to discuss that with you. Until that point I consider our discussion closed.

That's a GREAT Idea. Ruger did it on Vipers for Le Mans. Since we go to most of the ALMS races,let me know, we'll raise money.[bounce]

Any of you guys at Sebring now?? Busy place.[beer][bounce][beer]

IBIAFR -


OK

 

It was really more like ‘who knows? If this takes off we might even go for a second car’.



He was not really part of the original proposal, but your opinion might have been considered if it ever got to that.



Actually, it’s a statement of [I][b]opinion.[/I][/b]  Big difference! I did leave it out, because you did not really sound sorry at all.  To me, it sounded more like unapologetic, sarcastic, bragging.



The problem here is that you seem to think that your [u]opinions[/u] are facts.  That weakens the weight of the facts that you [I]do[/I] have.


The term was in quotes because it was a’coined’ term, and was attributed to my ‘ex’ because she was the source.  I wasn’t [I]trying[/I] to lessen the impact.



This seems inconsistent with your complaint about my use of the term “moosery” Really, I didn’t use it to hurt your feelings, but to make a point.  Sorry if I did hurt your feelings.



This is nothing to apologize for, and I don’t believe you mean it that way.  At first it seemed you were being sarcastic.  On second thought, it seems you’re hurt because you couldn’t say what you do know in a straightforward way - without overkill, without trying to give yourself an ego, and as a result, people were put off, and didn’t embrace what you were trying to say to us.



Sure, these are completely valid points.  Like you, I hate to see people getting duped, and I’m glad you clarified that you didn’t think Ed Sr. was being deceitful – that he was sincere in passing along what he’d been told.

For whatever reason you have a problem with the facts. Everything I have stated is fact.  Time will prove this.  Watch the series as it progresses and the races as they are televised.

Again, if you would like to take issue with any of the facts I have posted I will be more than happy to discuss them with you. Do you have any substantive questions? How about facts to offer in contradiction to anything I have stated?  Perhaps you are simply going to continue to whine about my tone of voice?

For whatever reason, you have a problem with  your opinions - you mistake them for facts.

 

Bull.  As everyone can see, all of your posts before page #4 have been deleted. Did you do this?  If so, it was damned courageous of you, and leaves me speculating about how you race.

It doesn't matter -- your opinion-to-fact-ratio was about 10 to 1.  

I tried to give you the benefit of agreeing with you where I could, not that it matters to you, but it seemed the right thing to do.



I stand on my previous posts.  Where are yours?
(Rhetorical question - I'm no longer interested)



Not necessary, I think people have formed their opinions by now.

I'm moving on to topics where people present facts when they say they are.  Have an introspective day!

You are nothing but a crybaby.  Either bring up one fact to contradict anything I have stated or move on.

First, IBIAFR, we are going to go along with Ed and, if we can get it rolling, sponsor the Touring car, so give it a freaking rest.  If you think it should be a TA car, fine, but we are not interested in a TA car.  If you don't want to contribute, fine, but lighten up already.  This is Ed's deal and those of us who are going to contribute once we find out how, are going with his idea.

Now that that's out of the way, I looked up the team in the paddock.  Met John Bosch, who believes the law should be that everyone has to own a gun, so he is one of us.  He started 27th and finished 29th, on the lead lap.  At the end, it sounded like he had dropped a cylinder or two, so he dropped back.  All in all, not a bad debut race.  At least he finished and on the cool down lap, all of us at my turn (15) got on the wall and gave him some very enthusiastic applause and he saw us and smiled and gave some big waves.  That may sound silly to those who don't work corners, but we like it and we have a saying..."No wave, no save...".

Took some pictures.

This is the car in the paddock
[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid26/p6845b30bd34e268fd3b0d8578bacd5a9/fdddc0b0.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid26/pb211b7e1ac27779cda3d3117d7bc3ea5/fdddc0ae.jpg[/img]
John is the guy in back bending over in the following shot
[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid26/p1df3639d41ab2c7fa50387c20e96b835/fdddc0aa.jpg[/img]
On track
[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid26/pd5a5c5a7fcc631943878d7f978e8967d/fdddc039.jpg[/img]

We also had several flyovers by a majestic old warbird
[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid26/pac482ba399c854de3d35a793fcaf0adc/fdddc037.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid26/p493fcaa2d399f23d3fc8879e642a488d/fdddc036.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid26/p9f249052312a7a26dc5e3d306a1c6956/fdddbeab.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid26/p01ee9894a014f76feeff7d49a04e47ee/fdddbeb0.jpg[/img]
And by some what I believe to be F22s
[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid26/pf458564ac466c82a5ab7891a3ea9d6f3/fdddbe2d.jpg[/img]

There were several cars sponsored by Winchester there.  One was a Volkswagen powered Reynard in the LMP675 class in the 12 hour race, of which I did not get a picture.  In the Formula Ford 2000 support race, there was a car sponsored by Winchester as well.  This is not a very good picture, but if you look on the side between the wheels, you can see the Winchester logo.
[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid26/p562b372b4fa1dddf91761fbf8e2151e8/fdddbeaa.jpg[/img]

Just got back a few hours ago.  No internet access while there, too busy.  We were on the corners (SCCA corner worker) from 0730 until about 2230 every day except Friday for practice, qualifying, night practice, and the race.  I am pooped.

LARRYG,

I sure wish you would read what is posted before you comment.



I sure hope that Bosch's engine problems were the result of an electronic issue.  If he sucked in a couple of valves that is going to put a crimp on his $5000 per race expense projections.  The problem didn't seem to affect him too much as he finished equivalent to the highest ranking he had achieved earlier in the race on lap 14.  Did you see the accident in turn one of the GT race?  There were a lot of expensive Porsche parts left behing in that one. I can't wait for the TV airing to see John in action.

Edited to correct spelling (Por[B]S[/B]che)

Nope, I was working at turn 15, but I heard about it on the corner net.  We heard the command for all corners to go green at the start and then almost immediately, turn one was calling in as waving yellow, then shortly the call was for double standing yellow all around.

This looks like a great oppportunity.

I will do my best to show Steve the light.

If he really likes the idea, he may kick in

several $$$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!!

Let me know the details.

I live in Indianapolis, so I love racing, but.....is spending 50k on a car hood the best use of the money?

What is the specific goal of this project?  Is it to increase the traffic on AR15.com?  This would of course benefit AR15 and all of their advertisers and industry partners.  Have you analyzed the demographics of this racing circuit?  Would Winchester share any info with you since someone said they were on one of the cars.

My point is, depending on what the real purpose of this project is, you may be able to do more with 10k spent on a targeted approach as compared to 50k on a less specific venue.  Does AR15.com even know the demographics of their current users?  That is where you start with a project like this, then you pick the promotional tools you use.

Remember when Hotjobs.com crashed during the Super Bowl a few years ago?

We have already been through this with several others.  This is baby of one of the owners of the website.  When he makes the details available as to how to donate to the project, those of us who want to shall do so, those that think there are other ways, may donate to whatever sponsorship deal they want.  This one is already decided as to what car we are going after to sponsor.  There have already been several to tell us how to BETTER spend our money.

[c:\windows\..\NovaPic]
I'll put AR15.COM on the back off my other
exspensive hobby for free.

[WA8KS92G7000N0S4QWL0B63BEE200203300226]and[/img]
I'll put AR15.COM on the back of the other exspensive hobby for free

Sorry people, had a hard time loading the pic.
[img]http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/dae65229/bc/My+Photos/My+Nova.jpg?bciQZ98AIN96Pwl9[/img]

Zoub,

Motorsports can be an effective means of advertising.  I offered the demographic data you speak of as well as some excellent possibilities if the original dollar amounts being thrown around were raised.  Now that the dollar amounts have shrunk to less than five thousand it is a personal interest for the contributors and nothing more.  I came to learn through many posts that the realities of sponsorship, racing in general and return on investment have nothing to do with the decision making process in regard to this endeavor.

LARRYG,

Any word on how significant the damage to Bosch's motor was or what caused it?  My understanding is that those M3 motors cost in the ballpark of $35,000.  The upside is they are usually very reliable and have no problem making a whole season.  What about how much time Speed Vision spent covering him?

Those two fighter planes are F5's. Totally old school but still a kick ass plane none the less.

Actually, they are F22s, which are a twim engine version of the F5.

IBIAFR, I haven't heard anything about the engine.  They were already gone by the time I could get over to their paddock, as I was on corner 15 all day.  As for how much time Speedvision spent covering him, I haven't seen the broadcast yet, so I don't know.  I know what you are getting at.  I bet that if it had AR15 on it, they would pay attention.

The races will be on tonight at 2000 EST.

You don't actually believe that statement do you?  Does it rain champagne in your fantasy land too?

Imagine all the money [b]pointtarget[/b] spent, and he didn't even get a hood !!!  [;D]






Just kidding, PT!!  That's a sweet ride. Tell us about it.

Yes, they would probably get all freaked out about it and pay it attention.  Must you be so critical and negative?

  LarryG, Been away for a while but, Thank You!! to all SCCA/ALMS/IMSA corner workers and marshals!! You guys and gals do a fantastic job with incredible stamina and selfless perserverance so the show can go on. Your dedication is so APPRECIATED!!!  Our lives literally depend on YOU. Thank you! [beer] MulsanneArnage